Given what they actually got I wonder how far the conversation went after that.
Kings reportedly involved in Brad Beal trade talks but not deep enough in to matter
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
they gave a guy who in his prime was never a top 20 player a super max than a NTC
Touché
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
im not the biggest Beal fan but in 18 19 and 20 he was almost certainly considered a top 20 player. Two seasons where he averaged 30. A 30 + season average has only been accomplished 60 some times in league history.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
There was probably one sound: "click."
why does Washington keep throwing in more?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I'm sure they did, that said, I'm sure regardless if the Wiz were sitting on that Kings offer I'd bet it was the best of the bunch since just to make salaries work it would have had to have been. In the end, Beal chose the best for him and by far the worst for the Wiz. lol.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
They're also trying to save face after the fact, haha. Wonder who the "source" was, lol.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Probably trying to save picks
Telemachus
Starter
I believe that gives them 7 players (if Isaiah Todd is a legitimate player) and a payroll around $173 million.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Y'know, not for nothing but the Wizards deciding to blow things up and get as bad as possible for this season greatly improves our chances at signing Kyle Kuzma, who would do nothing to really help our defense but would give us two 6'9" wing-forwards who are capable of getting unnaturally hot from the perimeter.
ockingsfan
Starter
Kuzma's defense has actually improved a lot since his early days. I think his defense is considered at least average or slightly above average at this point.
It's really depends on how much Kuzma is asking for in Free Agency. If we could get him for a decent contract, i.e. 4 years/$80-90 mil, then I think he may be an upgrade to HB. BUT, If it takes a $27-30+ mil per year contract, then no thanks. However, I know Monte has been linked to Kuzma in rumors for some time now.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
By no means do I think Kuzma is a bad defender but he certainly wouldn't change our team's ceiling defensively like OG possibly could. At the same time, having him alongside an improving Keegan Murray on defense might be enough to really shore up things on that end as opposed to watching Harrison Barnes struggle to keep up laterally with any wing/forward with two working legs.
If Kuz were willing to take a similar deal to the one HB took when he re-signed with us in 2019, I would have no qualms whatsoever.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
the only issue with Kuz for me is if we are wanting/expecting Keegan to take a leap, where do the shots come from? OG would have needed shots too but he averaged just a bit more than Barnes did and then obviously gives us way more defense. If Kuz comes in you are looking at probably 18-20 points a game and that leaves Keegan likely stuck in 12-14 range.
If we don’t get OG I’m more in favor of bringing Barnes back and letting Keegan blossom. If we sign HB to a 3 year 60 mil dollar deal we would then have his contract plus Holmes deal to make a big trade if “running it back” doesn’t work. That’s 32 mil and we would then likely have control over our picks again.
Well, the hope is Kuz would buy into "We share the ball here" mantra and play nice with like a 22ish% USG rate. I think that would do wonders for his efficiency as well.
But one benefit the Kings do have is they can basically absorb anyone into their offense with ease because of how unselfish Domas is. It's Fox goes first then Domas finds whoever has the hot hand and feeds him. We didn't have 7 30pt scorers last season on accident. That's a product of the system and how we share the ball with 2 unselfish stars up top.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It's the shots you don't want. If there was a guy out there that could severely damage Keegan's chances, it's Kuz. When Kuz has that usage rate, he's basically a more athletic Barnes that draws less contact. If the Kings are going for a less efficient, more athletic, streaky shooter, Oubre is a better and likely cheaper option.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Kuz isn't changing a team on defense but on the other end he's basically been a 0 offensive wins share player for the last few years. His efficiency in relation to usage % is basically around a Poole, Westbrook, Oubre level.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
Oubre is a player I will never root for, even if he ended up on the Kings.
kingsfan101
Starter
I agree, but with a few asterisks
. These are moot now with Beal's trade to Suns, but the general points remain.- Beal is not guaranteed to carve out those minutes. Over the last two seasons, not only has he played fewer games, but his PPG have also come down.
- He's been the top dog in W for a long time. With Suns, he'll be competing with Ayton as the third option. Would have been a similar story here.
- Star power matters more in the playoffs. We have to establish the tradition of going there consistently. We can't take it as a given (though I think the team showed maturity in the playoffs last year, giving hopes for this year).
- Depth matters a lot in the regular season. We were particularly blessed last season. Won't happen often. Sacrificing depth for a player who might himself be out of lineup for long periods is massively risky.
- It's quite possible that in two seasons, Kevin is actually the better player, period. Not, "if Beal is healthy" kind of scenario. Huerter is just better. I think it's even likely.
For people thinking Suns got Beal for free, yes in terms of talent. However, it's a huge financial commitment. The owners have decided to go all in, and buy a championship. Let's see if it works out.
kingsfan101
Starter
I fear CP3 is ending up a Laker :-(
kingsfan101
Starter
Not so sure. With many teams in big LT territory, and some hard caps probably coming in, cap space might be a valuable asset to get some young guys riding the bench on veteran, competing teams along with some draft capital. Whether Wiz use it or not remains to be seen.
kingsfan101
Starter
Was listening to a podcast long back (think it was "What's your problem", but not sure). The guest was a guy who was one of the pioneers of advanced stats. To a question, he said per their stats, Beal was the most overrated guy in the league.
Not saying that advanced stats are always correct, or that the guy was right. Just mentioning what he said (and what I remember).
kingsfan101
Starter
But this was always the problem with super max deals. Stars want it, teams are scared to say no as it shows a lack of respect, and are forced to give superstar level money to stars.
I think this was one of the main reasons we traded Cuz. Yes, it helped us retain our pick that year (hello Fox), but I think the upcoming contract, and what it could cost us were likely factors too.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I agree, but with a few asterisks
The points you raise about Holmes are very valid, but in fact, they are an indication that moving an overpriced player is not easy. No idea if Monte fielded offers, and if so, what was available. However, given that Holmes is not a starting quality center for most teams, why would teams trade for a backup center making that much money, as you yourself suggest. Typically, you have to attach assets to move such a player.
- Beal is not guaranteed to carve out those minutes. Over the last two seasons, not only has he played fewer games, but his PPG have also come down.
- He's been the top dog in W for a long time. With Suns, he'll be competing with Ayton as the third option. Would have been a similar story here.
- Star power matters more in the playoffs. We have to establish the tradition of going there consistently. We can't take it as a given (though I think the team showed maturity in the playoffs last year, giving hopes for this year).
- Depth matters a lot in the regular season. We were particularly blessed last season. Won't happen often. Sacrificing depth for a player who might himself be out of lineup for long periods is massively risky.
- It's quite possible that in two seasons, Kevin is actually the better player, period. Not, "if Beal is healthy" kind of scenario. Huerter is just better. I think it's even likely.
For people thinking Suns got Beal for free, yes in terms of talent. However, it's a huge financial commitment. The owners have decided to go all in, and buy a championship. Let's see if it works out.
You have valid points and yeah now it's moot but looking at the shot distribution of the Wiz last season I have no doubt that Beal would have had at least the same opportunity. Kuz only took .5 shots less per game than Fox did with the Kings, and in the regular season the Kings basically had a muck of shots shared almost equally after Fox. Adding another star means you can shift some offense away from the players that are less capable thus making you a little bit more reliable come playoff time. And yep, the Suns are definitely going for the if you can't win it, buy it method, lol.
