Ozymandias
All-Star
both of them are woefully flawed. not remotely good enoguh to get off the ground.
Kings reportedly involved in Brad Beal trade talks but not deep enough in to matter
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Ozymandias
All-Star
So when you look at those highlights do you think to yourself "that looks like a player in decline, There goes raggedy old Bradley Beal again! he'll be in the retirement home soon, how sad"
Is that the association that comes to your mind when you look at the footage?
Lavine would be a bit better, but I still don't understand the theory of why in the world would we pay through the noise to get that archetype of player. These dudes aren't Devin Booker/Ant Edwards that can vault a team into a title contender just by being on the team. They haven't shown that the last 3-4 years where they've been the "man" of their squads. Could certainly argue that as a #3, they get significantly better, but still.
Ozymandias
All-Star
When do you guys think Brad Beal retires is a better question? this summer or next? or is he just doing the old Chris Davis on the Baltimore Orioles sticking around for the paychecks type of deal?
Why would I pay $50 mil for Brad Beal when Monk is clearly better and is 1/5th the cost? Have you seen these highlights? Look at him score at will and hit clutch shot after clutch shot! This dude is the next Devin Booker!
That's the argument you just made to me lol. You're better than that, come on now.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Well have you considered that if we win next year with Huerter or Monk that their gonna try to gouge us for as much as they can as well?
I think people are literally putting way too much weight into #'s on the books already and arent considering the potential costs of doing business if we move forward as is
Ozymandias
All-Star
you cant even directly respond about Brad Beal dropping 36 - 6 - 7 on 87% shooting 3 months ago because it doesnt fit the narrative your trying to push..
IN DECLINE
BRAD BEAL WHOS LIVED IN A GYM HIS WHOLE DAMN LIFE IS IN DECLINE AT 29 YEARS OLD WITH ALL THE BEST MEDICINE IN THE WORLD AT HIS DISPOSAL...
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Do you think Barnes would re-sign here to come off the bench?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, and they'll worry about that, then I'm sure. Players like Brown got them where they needed to get now. The same could be possible for the Kings 3 years from now too. There is no cap hell now and that's specifically why the Kings can even entertain this sort of move.
What options to add this kind of talent exist though? Show me a cap spread before Domas is maxed or the same year he is that finds this team the all star talent that Monte is apparently looking for. Let alone one that can be had without having to start discussions with the names Keegan and Davion. Assuming they aren't already, which would be an overpay for sure.
I thought you were sharp because of your draft scouting takes. Guess not.
But I'll respond anyway. I don't care about one game. He's had two seasons of being worse than he was at his peak when he was scoring 30 PPG. He's been injured constantly the last 4 seasons. He's going to be 30. He's owed $200 mil over the next 4 seasons. That's not a recipe for continued success. If you don't understand that, that's on you. It's basic common knowledge.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I'll take the brightest burn. And you're also assuming the majority of them are going to be worth that from the bench. Davion, that's a ticking time bomb of gone or overpaid IMO.
Ozymandias
All-Star
SO say it then what are you so scared of...
why cant you just say it... are you terrified to speak on the footage?
"When I look at those highlights of Brad Beal 3 months ago dropping 36, 6 and 7 on 87% shooting, I see a player In decline, 2017 Brad Beal shoots 18/15 (yes thats right 120% from the floor) with 15 boards, 15 assists, 15 blocks and 15 steals in that game" - The_Jamal
Yeah but I can still move Davion. I can move HB, I can move Monk. I can't move Beal at $50 mil with a no trade clause. Especially if he's giving us a reason to want to move him and isn't performing to standard.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Or lets get nuts. lol.
Holmes, Huerter, space, picks for Beal.
Davion/Murray for OG.
hahaha. Yes, I'll concede that's too risky for sure but hey. If Vivek is willing to write the checks.
Tell you what, I'll retract everything I said about Beal and say he's still in his prime, has years and years of all-star play left if you admit that Monk is better than Beal because of his 45 point game vs LAC. Since only one game highlights matter now.
Deal?
I think you're underselling their talents and impact on a team. They are legitimate NBA All-Stars who would be #2/3 options on any team in the league. You aren't getting Devin Booker/Ant Edwards unless you give up Fox AND Sabonis. They are superstars who are entirely out of the equation (Edwards is a soon to be superstar).
You're not trading for Beal or LaVine to be the "man" of our team, you're trading to give us another star. Consistent players who can score 20ppg every single night. Someone who can legitimately take the load off of Fox and Domas. They won't turn into a deer in headlights if Sabonis gets shut down by the other team (Huerter) nor will they struggle to show up for big moments (Barnes).
Reading through these pages, it seems like a lot of people are on the high of Denver winning a ring and think we can have the same success with their formula....
Domas: 16.4pts 11rebs 4.7asts on 49.5/20/57.1
Jokic: 30.0pts 13.5rebs 9.5asts on 54.8/46.1/79.9
They are nowhere on the same level. Our AS didn't show up in the playoffs at all. This is where a Beal or LaVine would help too...
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
For now but for what? An all star? We already know what it looked like in the role Davion had last year. What are you moving him for? He was pretty much forgotten about already until a spurt in the playoffs. Not because he sucks, but because of opportunity. Players that are too good to be benchers for their whole career can't just be tarnished enough to make it viable. Someone is watching and waiting. Sounds like a few teams already are including the Suns.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Out of assets? as in like when someone whos broke looks in their pocket for a quarter and cant find one? Your being dramatic.. Your analysis of this situation is OVERLY DRAMATIC...
You guys think your being prudent or whatever looking ahead but you lump things together that are separate events, which is really puzzling...
We've got people talking about "id rather resign Davion" Davion is a Restricted Free agent in the summer of
I dont believe that.. GOod thing yall arent calling the shots there's such a lack of resourcefulness in some of these posts...
"Lets REsign BARNES put him as Keegans backup and start Vezenkov at PF" Its just completely absurd levels of "grass is greener on the otherside" going on here..
Last edited:
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
That's the other reason I think adding a 3rd star is mandatory. Domas actually did for what he is basically. The passing wasn't there because of the reliance on a somewhat gimmicky offensive system that didn't translate to playoff ball because his shooters were hounded, scouted, and hunted on the DHO. At least for most of the games.
Possibly. I don't think Lavine and Beal are particularly valuable assets when they cost 40 and 50 mil. At that tag, you better be Devin Booker/Ant Edwards good and they're tiers below them.
Again, I was on record of this after the playoffs, but I think if you gave Monk a starting role, he'd put up very similar numbers to both of them. 20-6-3 type stuff. He showed flashes of offensive brilliance throughout the season and it really did come together for him in the playoffs. I'd much much rather gamble on that than pay any sort of assets to bring in Lavine or Beal.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
That's a tough way to look at it. I always think the better way is your cap space as a team and how it's divided and maximizing your talent level within that. If you have the luxury of even 1 year of a player making far less than market value that's a good thing and usable.. Max salaries have always been the cost of doing business and those potentially even incremental increases in talent cost you once you start getting to that near max stuff. I mean, Khris Middleton on a player option makes as much as Anthony Davis. Gobert makes more than Luka. Cost increases based on experience factor into contracts so it's hard to gauge that kind of stuff. Beal on a great contract ain't getting considered for a package from Sacramento to begin with. All these things factor into the potential timing of this sort of thing. This kind of thing doesn't line up very often so if it doesn't destroy your core, don't just shrug it off if you're Monte.
I think too many people were quick to forget what happened in the playoffs. A lot of fans were content losing to "last year's champs" just because we were happy to be in the playoffs. Well.. against an inferior "lol lakers" team, "last year's champs" looked like they didn't belong on the court with 38-year-old LeBron. That same Lakers team proceeded to get swept by the Nuggets like it was a no-big deal regular season series.
Shinning the light back at the Kings, how does that look on us? I think it means we've got to make some moves if we're serious about contending for a ring. Monte probably has the same line of thinking which is why we've already been linked to the rumors for OG and Beal.
I'm fine with the gimmicky offense in the regular season because it won us games (although not sure how sustainable). But I think it's clear that we need a different approach in the playoffs. We can't rely on Fox trying to be a 1-man show or count on our role players to make 3s in the playoffs apparently.
Getting another star solves a lot of those issues and takes pressure off of everyone else, for the good.
LaVine's contract isn't too horrible when you compare him to the rest of the league. Still not a great contract, but if he keeps staying healthy, it's probably just right in or above the market for him. But I understand reservations about Beal.. I don't want him here at those figures either. It's an albatross contract.
With Monk, I just don't think he has it in him to be a consistent 20ppg scorer. Even in the playoffs, he had off shooting nights in 3 out of 7 games where he went 1-9, 5-14, and 4-14. We saw the same inconsistencies in the regular season. Following his monster 45pts against the Clippers in the phenomenal win, he proceeded to put up duds for the next few games: 12pts, 7pts, 4pts, and 8pts. All too common with Monk which makes me think he won't be able to take the next leap forward to be a true starter in the league.
The defensive backcourt of Fox-Monk is really small and leaves a lot to be desired. I think they're a dynamic offensive duo when they get things going, but I don't like the idea of having an undersized backcourt when Barnes/Keegan/Sabonis offer nearly nothing as rim protectors or second line of defenses.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
ok let’s see your lineup after you trade for Beal or OG?
serbiangoat
Starter
As a fit he's fantastic he imo played his most impactful basketball when he had John Wall and Nene feeding him I think current Fox and Sabonis were much better than Prime Wall and on the decline Nene. I think his 3pt% would rocket back up to the 40% mark but the contract is insane and I don't see why the Wizards make this deal if the Kings don't give up Murray (which I would not do). I would not hate the move because it makes the Kings a legit playoff force but at the same time I don't think he's worth what he's making.
miltonap
Starter
I would much rather have Beal than the combo of Huerter Monk and HB I think it was that someone mentioned.
Keeping those guys instead of making this deal and you can guarantee that the team won't be good enough.
Would we be financially better off?
Yea, probably, but the team would be worse.
I think that's a horrid contract but at the same time one would think we would have some leverage there due to how horrid it is.
I definitely think Beal is a baller and combining him, Fox, and Domas would be a super scary combo I feel.
Another poster made a post about Beals injury history and I think it's overblown and he really actually doesn't have injury problems but moreso was out due to Covid, tanking, and some other non essential stuff I believe.
Is Beal the right move to get us to the top?
Not sure about that, but I think we'd be a finals team with him.
Not trading Keegan though gtfo with that.
Anyone else fair game though I guess.
I'm also not enamored with Huerter, thought he sucked many times last year and was a major disappointment in the playoffs.
Can't risk that imo.
I don't want to put hope that he's going to be great in the playoffs and possibly just waste another year of the team's timeline because he didn't show up in the playoffs.
Playoffs is when it matters, don't care about the regular season.
Fox, Beal, Keegan, and Domas isn't a bad 4 core to work with.
I'm sure we would be great for a long time if it was just those 4 and we kept a rotating machine around them
Expensive yes, but I think we would be really great.
Not sure if it's a CHAMPIONSHIP squad though.
Keeping those guys instead of making this deal and you can guarantee that the team won't be good enough.
Would we be financially better off?
Yea, probably, but the team would be worse.
I think that's a horrid contract but at the same time one would think we would have some leverage there due to how horrid it is.
I definitely think Beal is a baller and combining him, Fox, and Domas would be a super scary combo I feel.
Another poster made a post about Beals injury history and I think it's overblown and he really actually doesn't have injury problems but moreso was out due to Covid, tanking, and some other non essential stuff I believe.
Is Beal the right move to get us to the top?
Not sure about that, but I think we'd be a finals team with him.
Not trading Keegan though gtfo with that.
Anyone else fair game though I guess.
I'm also not enamored with Huerter, thought he sucked many times last year and was a major disappointment in the playoffs.
Can't risk that imo.
I don't want to put hope that he's going to be great in the playoffs and possibly just waste another year of the team's timeline because he didn't show up in the playoffs.
Playoffs is when it matters, don't care about the regular season.
Fox, Beal, Keegan, and Domas isn't a bad 4 core to work with.
I'm sure we would be great for a long time if it was just those 4 and we kept a rotating machine around them
Expensive yes, but I think we would be really great.
Not sure if it's a CHAMPIONSHIP squad though.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Agreed. There is merit to injury concerns but some of those have to be considered with Fox too as it is. His games played were just as spotty as Beal prior to last year. Just be healthy for the playoffs and if Fox has to continue to do what he did in the playoffs just to make the Kings competitive then that's the bigger risk right there. He had to make really risky plays inside time and time again and it caught up to him even if it was a dumb play that did it. Monk I'm sure stays next year if any deal goes down, Fox, Beal, and Monk would be one of those guard trios where somebody even on a bad night is going to be on fire. All 3 guys can go punch teams in the mouth and might even be big enough to play more minutes together than with Davion.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Did you see Huerter struggle mightily about midway into the season and then stink it up in the postseason?
He does that again this season, and the KINGS won’t be able to trade him so easily.
He’s a BIG reason why the KINGS fell short in 7 against GSW. Couldn’t hit $#/t for most the series. And, again, if that trend hadn’t started months earlier I’d be more willing to write it off.
Hope the kid bounces back next season, but I’m not very confident about it. I really believing the hot run in ATL a few years ago was an anomaly.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Last thing ill say here is this
The core engine of the Kings team consists of Fox, Sabonis and enough 3pt shooting to give them space...
Thats what we're working with right now ---- AND ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP, Its good enough to win maybe 45 games and be used as a doormat for the real contenders.. Nothing in the 1st rd series indicated otherwise.
Brad Beal represents about as big of an upgrade to our core engine that we could find possibly find in 1 player ANYWHERE at any price..
WE MISSED SO MANY OPEN 3's... Were gonna sit in this damn thread talking about $$$ and not all the missed WIDE OPEN 3's.
That defense the Warriors played that thru Sabonis out of rythym daring him to shoot, you think teams can get away with that if we have Brad Beal here? I goddamn dont, for sure. thats crazytalk.
We could have 3 all-stars with Beal here..
So Brad the real deal Beal is a player I've followed for idk 15+ years.. the above dribbling highlights are from the last 2 seasons where I'm being told he's declining.... But it seems to me his handle is sharper than ever... so which is it?
IDK what kinda basketball fans wouldnt wanna see Brad Beal and Fox and Sabonis? like wut? yall are basketball fans and you dont wanna see that?
Did we not just miss a crapload of wide open 3's in that playoff series? am i misremembering? Were all of our wing options not SUPER streaky / inconsistent? What If Coach Brown said I want a consistent SG not having to constantly play the matchups n search for hot hands, isnt Beal perfectly suited for that?
Beal represents making things easier for Sabonis, less work,
Beal represents making things easier for Fox, less work.
Sabonis represents making things easier for Fox, less work.
Sabonis represents making things easier for Beal, less attention, crisper passes, less work.
Fox represents making things easier for Sabonis, lotta work upfront but then less in the 4th q when Fox takes over.
Fox represents making things easier for Beal, space, a weakside threat, crisper passes, less attention, less work.
Ya know who resigning all our guys makes things easier for? Monte McNair.. And thats not easier as in 'problem solved' just easier as in less work...On the court its the same crap.. dont u get that? and whatever minor moves are just that, minor moves, in comparison to actually injecting the engine of our team with a massive upgrade..
This is the biggest flaw in some of the logic floating around here... where is the loyalty to fox, where is the loyalty to sabonis, where are the posts saying lets make these guys jobs easier? Thats who we need to draft, thats who we need to sign, the names are irrelevant, the fact they can help our stars is whats relevant. Now in the case of Bradley Beal, he's a star too, but we can integrate him, he's not some ego maniac he's fairly down to earth for a SG making 50 mil per season, and he is in excellent shape I just saw recent footage of him, he's as lean as always..
The other thing I just dislike about the instant rejection of scenarios like this are, we have way more wiggle room than yall are saying.. you sit there worry about the next summers but look at the wiggle room for next season, we could still have Monk here he's cheap for 1 year. Keegans Restricted, Davion Restricted, 2023 1rp restricted. So are we entirely sure that kicking the can down the road is infact the best option, couldnt overloading the salary now to then keep our restricted guys and go way over with them, thats a viable plan here obviously if this is even being considered.
The Kings own Sabonis full bird rights meaning we're allowed to go over the salary cap to resign him... So it actually seems way riskier to kick the can down the road to wait to lock in contracts, we'd end up paying a little bit less for less, thats not the idea here, were trying to win... It's vivek's money anyways what do you care?! Bring our stars the best surrounding talent thats whats important.
The core engine of the Kings team consists of Fox, Sabonis and enough 3pt shooting to give them space...
Thats what we're working with right now ---- AND ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP, Its good enough to win maybe 45 games and be used as a doormat for the real contenders.. Nothing in the 1st rd series indicated otherwise.
Brad Beal represents about as big of an upgrade to our core engine that we could find possibly find in 1 player ANYWHERE at any price..
WE MISSED SO MANY OPEN 3's... Were gonna sit in this damn thread talking about $$$ and not all the missed WIDE OPEN 3's.
That defense the Warriors played that thru Sabonis out of rythym daring him to shoot, you think teams can get away with that if we have Brad Beal here? I goddamn dont, for sure. thats crazytalk.
We could have 3 all-stars with Beal here..
So Brad the real deal Beal is a player I've followed for idk 15+ years.. the above dribbling highlights are from the last 2 seasons where I'm being told he's declining.... But it seems to me his handle is sharper than ever... so which is it?
IDK what kinda basketball fans wouldnt wanna see Brad Beal and Fox and Sabonis? like wut? yall are basketball fans and you dont wanna see that?
Did we not just miss a crapload of wide open 3's in that playoff series? am i misremembering? Were all of our wing options not SUPER streaky / inconsistent? What If Coach Brown said I want a consistent SG not having to constantly play the matchups n search for hot hands, isnt Beal perfectly suited for that?
Beal represents making things easier for Sabonis, less work,
Beal represents making things easier for Fox, less work.
Sabonis represents making things easier for Fox, less work.
Sabonis represents making things easier for Beal, less attention, crisper passes, less work.
Fox represents making things easier for Sabonis, lotta work upfront but then less in the 4th q when Fox takes over.
Fox represents making things easier for Beal, space, a weakside threat, crisper passes, less attention, less work.
Ya know who resigning all our guys makes things easier for? Monte McNair.. And thats not easier as in 'problem solved' just easier as in less work...On the court its the same crap.. dont u get that? and whatever minor moves are just that, minor moves, in comparison to actually injecting the engine of our team with a massive upgrade..
This is the biggest flaw in some of the logic floating around here... where is the loyalty to fox, where is the loyalty to sabonis, where are the posts saying lets make these guys jobs easier? Thats who we need to draft, thats who we need to sign, the names are irrelevant, the fact they can help our stars is whats relevant. Now in the case of Bradley Beal, he's a star too, but we can integrate him, he's not some ego maniac he's fairly down to earth for a SG making 50 mil per season, and he is in excellent shape I just saw recent footage of him, he's as lean as always..
The other thing I just dislike about the instant rejection of scenarios like this are, we have way more wiggle room than yall are saying.. you sit there worry about the next summers but look at the wiggle room for next season, we could still have Monk here he's cheap for 1 year. Keegans Restricted, Davion Restricted, 2023 1rp restricted. So are we entirely sure that kicking the can down the road is infact the best option, couldnt overloading the salary now to then keep our restricted guys and go way over with them, thats a viable plan here obviously if this is even being considered.
The Kings own Sabonis full bird rights meaning we're allowed to go over the salary cap to resign him... So it actually seems way riskier to kick the can down the road to wait to lock in contracts, we'd end up paying a little bit less for less, thats not the idea here, were trying to win... It's vivek's money anyways what do you care?! Bring our stars the best surrounding talent thats whats important.
