KINGS PICKING 4TH IN 2022 NBA DRAFT!

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Um, no I’m not wrong. You continue to do it.

Everything you keep citing — most notably being a “guaranteed HOF’er” is ONLY considering one side of the floor. Which was precisely the point I brought up from the beginning. Why so many over-value one side of the floor is beyond me (except when discussing players on the KINGS).

And correction, #77 is a bad defender. Did you not watch the the postseason this year? It was on full display. He was exposed. All anybody seems to want to notice are the immense offensive numbers. But his defense was among the reasons the Mavs lost that series.

But I guess that doesn’t matter, right? He’s a future HOF just like the Bearded Hag. SMH.

Players such as AD, KD, Embiid, CP3, Wall, and Simmons were all considered elite prospects when they entered the draft. With elite potential on both sides of the ball, just like LBJ. And at least 4 of them clearly are better all-around players than #77.

I’ll conclude by saying this, again. I get that your opinion is your opinion and that you are entitled to it. All I continue to point out is that your opinion was formed over-valuing one side of the floor. You can deny it all you want, but it’s the truth.



More citing of achievements and accolades from the offensive side of the ball. Typical NBA fan.

As I said, if the discussion were “best prospect on the offensive side of the ball since LBJ” these arguments would make some sense.

Nobody made the claim that he won’t end up in the HOF. Or that he isn’t an elite offensive talent. Or that he wasn’t an elite offensive prospect from his draft class. Hell, I pounded the table for the KINGS to draft him.

But as has been overwhelmingly proven by the last few responses by you and hrdboild — only offensive is being considered here with regard to “best prospect since LBJ”. Which was the entire point from the beginning.

As a complete player, #77 wasn’t close to the best prospect since LBJ nor has he developed into that player.

He’s an elite offensive talent. Just like a myriad of players in the league are and have been over the years.

A pretty impressive list of HOF and future HOF players can be cited with similar or better credentials that also were lacking defensive credentials and rings.

None of which qualifies them for “best prospect since LBJ”.

Anybody subscribing to that was clearly omitting half the game. Whether they admit it or not. There was simply no other way to come to that conclusion.
I think you're confusing "most complete" player/prospect with "best" player/prospect.

Player A is a 10 on offense and a 5 on defense.

Player B is a 9 on offense and a 9 on defense.

I *think* you're likely to say B is a better player/prospect than A. But basketball is much more "chemistry" than "arithmetic," and at the end of the day, as others have said, the key question is: which player most boosts their team's chance to win? Individual stats and accolades don't answer that question definitively, but I think they do better than references to basketball "roundedness."

And I say all this as someone who AGREES with you that defense is given short shrift relative to offense in most fans' assessments of player value.
 

Wild that the Blazers are hosting Sharpe for workouts (he has a nice block on a drive though here) when they're reportedly very into the idea of trading the pick and more for John Collins. Also Dalen Terry is loooong.
It's strange that people look at Daniels as a 1-3, but Terry is often seen as a PG. They have almost identical measurements, but Terry has a longer wingspan.

Daniels: 6'6 w/o shoes ------ 195.2lbs ------ 6'10.5 wingspan.

Terry: 6'6 w/o shoes ------- 195.2lbs --------7'0.75 wingspan

They're also only a year apart. I do think Daniels has an "it" factor that Terry doesn't, he's just overall more talented. However, if you miss out on Daniels, Terry would be a great consolation prize. I'm not sure how scouts can have Daniels top 5-10, but Terry in the 2nd round. When you take a look at what they both bring to a team, it's very comparable.
 
It's strange that people look at Daniels as a 1-3, but Terry is often seen as a PG. They have almost identical measurements, but Terry has a longer wingspan.

Daniels: 6'6 w/o shoes ------ 195.2lbs ------ 6'10.5 wingspan.

Terry: 6'6 w/o shoes ------- 195.2lbs --------7'0.75 wingspan

They're also only a year apart. I do think Daniels has an "it" factor that Terry doesn't, he's just overall more talented. However, if you miss out on Daniels, Terry would be a great consolation prize. I'm not sure how scouts can have Daniels top 5-10, but Terry in the 2nd round. When you take a look at what they both bring to a team, it's very comparable.
Terry is my dream for the 2nd round but I have a feeling he would have gone back to school if he didn't have a promise from a team or two in the first round.
 
Assuming the guy you REALLY want is available at 2, I say broker a deal to move up. We need a star. We dont get stars here via free agency, so the ONLY way you get them is in the draft. We need a stud, so lets go get him. 22 #4, top 3 protected 23, other pieces
I said it earlier but Jabari and Chet are widely projects to be top shelf complimentary pieces not franchise altering #1s. If we are looking for THE guy it might not be either of them.
 
I've been thinking about this a little more, and I think that Keegan Murray is the right pick over Ivey at 4.

I think that we need to be conscious of the fact that we have 2 years, or perhaps 1, to show Sabonis that we are not a complete embarrassment.

We know that Keegan Murray will contribute in some way from day 1, even if it's just shooting.

Ivey will probably be more of a project, and if that fails for whatever reason, I think it may screw the Kings out of keeping Sabonis.

So you will have lost Sabonis and essentially Haliburton for nothing.

Yes it would be great if Ivey is drafted and he pans out but do we have much time for that to happen ?

That and the idea of creating another guard glut is a little concerning to me.

Last year we had Haliburton as the rising player on a cheap contract that could net someone like Sabonis.

Who would that player be this year ?

Would we want to trade Mitchell ? I wouldn't, for culture reasons.

And drafting Ivey I feel automatically lowers Fox's value since now other teams know we have a guard glut.

All things considered I think Keegan Murray is the safer pick and better for the Kings at this stage.

I think all the Kings need to do is be a fringe playoff team this year and I think that should be good enough.

Then once they are at this stage they should be able to pick up some decent piece through free agency, and build their way up.

It's not sexy, but I think it may be the right way.
 
Amen to that. And to be totally honest, heading off teams at the PG position defensively isn't as impactful as it once was. There's too much switching. Back in the days of hand checking heck yeah, but don't get it twisted people, someone like the Glove played even better on O than he did on D. Without the offense he's a role player even in the days where it mattered more.
Point guards today are shouldering a heavier offensive load than ever before. For the most part your point guard is now expected to be your main, or second main, scoring threat, to facilitate the offense, and also crash the boards. It’s also a much harder position than ever before to guard because of how offensively skilled point guards are and how fast offensive plays develop. Not saying it’s an excuse to phone it in on defense, but if my point guard is an offensive unit but a bad defender I’m still 100% going to build around them. A point guard that is Luka on offense and Holiday on defense doesn’t exist in the league and is the unicorn of unicorns.
 
I know CD is making fun of Givony's PR for the agents of Ivey by using the word "might". But I would be all for it. The Kings might get heat for this and I would prefer that the Kings trade down and grab Daniels at 5 - 7, but if they take him at 4, I would be totally okay with it.

I wouldn't do it. If they could trade down and get a shooter + Daniels, then that would work. But Daniels by himself as a main cog to the Fox, Davion and Sabonis core? That's a lot of non shooters we'd be compiling. Spacing could be horrendous.
 
I've been thinking about this a little more, and I think that Keegan Murray is the right pick over Ivey at 4.

I think that we need to be conscious of the fact that we have 2 years, or perhaps 1, to show Sabonis that we are not a complete embarrassment.

We know that Keegan Murray will contribute in some way from day 1, even if it's just shooting.

Ivey will probably be more of a project, and if that fails for whatever reason, I think it may screw the Kings out of keeping Sabonis.

So you will have lost Sabonis and essentially Haliburton for nothing.

Yes it would be great if Ivey is drafted and he pans out but do we have much time for that to happen ?

That and the idea of creating another guard glut is a little concerning to me.

Last year we had Haliburton as the rising player on a cheap contract that could net someone like Sabonis.

Who would that player be this year ?

Would we want to trade Mitchell ? I wouldn't, for culture reasons.

And drafting Ivey I feel automatically lowers Fox's value since now other teams know we have a guard glut.

All things considered I think Keegan Murray is the safer pick and better for the Kings at this stage.

I think all the Kings need to do is be a fringe playoff team this year and I think that should be good enough.

Then once they are at this stage they should be able to pick up some decent piece through free agency, and build their way up.

It's not sexy, but I think it may be the right way.
Keegan Murray is 100% the safer pick. No one will argue with you there. He's got more polish than anyone at 4 and has the highest likelihood to contribute right away. He also projects to fit well next to Sabonis.

My reservation is how good does Murray need to be for us to reach the playoffs? I think no matter what it's fair to assume that the Suns, Warriors, Grizzlies, Mavs, Jazz (if they don't blow it up), Nuggets, and Clippers (if healthy) will all 100% be better than us. It's also very likely that the Wolves and Pelicans (especially if Zion comes back) are better than us. That leaves one playoff/play in spot available for the Kings, Lakers, Spurs, and Blazers to compete for. The Spurs are trending upward and it's hard for me to see the Lakers and Lebron missing the playoffs for two straight years.

So if we draft Murray and we aren't in the playoff picture come March-ish, will I have wished we just drafted a guy with higher potential like Ivey or Sharpe? Absolutely. Especially because there is no doubt that if we aren't a playoff team by then there will be loud calls to blow the team up and we'll be discussing what players we want to keep and how we want to move forward with a rebuild.

A pessimistic view for sure, but one that is very possible.
 
Sorry, and I know I'm just arm chairing, but I just really don't see this Daniels thing some of you do. I see nothing special. He interviews well and has size is his best thing.

Maybe you guys that are high on him could link some highlights that shine what it is? I've tried to find stuff.
I sincerely have tried watching vids on him and I see nothing to warrant a high lotto pick. Barely top 10 IMO. :confused:
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
Anyone recall if there was a lot of buzz on us taking Davion pre-draft?

I seem to remember that there was, but that could have been draft day, when a lot of GMs start laying their cards on the table/leaks happen.

Curious how many grains of salt we should have handy for all of these tweets.
 
Anyone recall if there was a lot of buzz on us taking Davion pre-draft?

I seem to remember that there was, but that could have been draft day, when a lot of GMs start laying their cards on the table/leaks happen.

Curious how many grains of salt we should have handy for all of these tweets.
Davion was a weird one because he was mocked all over the place.

I don't recall us being linked to anybody though. Seemed like at least half of us liked Wagner and then there was a very vocal contingent expressing concerns that Wagner sucked.
 
Sorry, and I know I'm just arm chairing, but I just really don't see this Daniels thing some of you do. I see nothing special. He interviews well and has size is his best thing.

Maybe you guys that are high on him could link some highlights that shine what it is? I've tried to find stuff.
I sincerely have tried watching vids on him and I see nothing to warrant a high lotto pick. Barely top 10 IMO. :confused:
I think it's looking at his versatility on both ends of the court in a league that basically demands it now to be good. Dude is 6'8 with a 6'11 wingspan, played PG all year for the Ignite and often took the toughest defensive assignment on a nightly basis. I think he could walk into the league defending 1-3 and eventually even 4's as he continues to mature and work on his body. He's extremely intelligent for a 19 year old (plays much older than he is) which I think is a real benefit from him being in the NBA academy and playing pro ball since he was 15. He's excellent on and off-ball on defense.

Offensively, I think he's an excellent playmaker, although not at the level of Giddey or Melo as a truly elite swing skill. He can collapse a defense and often turns to an effective floater in the lane. The shot has been talked about quite a bit and it wasn't good for a majority of the season. It's his biggest swing skill to becoming a potential star and if you think it develops, he could very easily be the best player in this draft.
 
I'm at the point where I don't want to even read anything anymore. While 4th is better than 7th, it's much more complicated. We will really be able to see Monte and Wes's chops this coming week.
It's frustrating because there were 3 players I really liked and 1 is probably going #1 overall and the other two are "not good enough to pick 4th".

If I were Monte I'd be blowing enough smoke to make Detroit or Indy think I was trading down to Portland or below to draft Ivey to see how sweet a package one will offer to move up pre-draft. Failing that just draft BPA whoever it is and see if one of the teams behind us wants to blow us away if there is a guy we like better on the board when they pick. It's key that we don't let anyone know who that player we really like is to extract maximum value if that's the route we go.

I can't listen to much more either because I think the top 4 is the top 4 but so much really hinges on Orlando making the "safe" pick with Jabari despite the fact that most of the people mocking that pick don't have Jabari as #1 on their personal big board.
 
Davion was a weird one because he was mocked all over the place.

I don't recall us being linked to anybody though. Seemed like at least half of us liked Wagner and then there was a very vocal contingent expressing concerns that Wagner sucked.
IIRC, we thought Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs and Kuminga would 100% be off the board and were hoping Scottie Barnes would somehow fall. I think most of our lists were some combo of Franz/Moody and maybe Sengun
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
IIRC, we thought Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs and Kuminga would 100% be off the board and were hoping Scottie Barnes would somehow fall. I think most of our lists were some combo of Franz/Moody and maybe Sengun
That's about my recollection. There was a little talk of Bouknight, maybe a tiny buzz about Ziaire if everybody came off the board, and I for one was in favor of looking hard at Jalen Johnson. There was a bit of talk about Giddey and Davion, but I don't think either were seen as a good fit by most (of course).
 
That's about my recollection. There was a little talk of Bouknight, maybe a tiny buzz about Ziaire if everybody came off the board, and I for one was in favor of looking hard at Jalen Johnson. There was a bit of talk about Giddey and Davion, but I don't think either were seen as a good fit by most (of course).
Pretty much. I was also big on kicking the tires on Jalen Johnson, liked Wagner as a safe pick, was not enthusiastic about Moody, was intrigued but nervous about Kuminga, and really liked Sengun. Mitchell wasn't even on my radar and I was really frustrated by the pick when the "core" at that point was clearly Fox & Mitchell.

A good reminder not to overreact on draft night and to remember that for bad teams, BPA is almost always the right answer.
 
Keegan Murray is 100% the safer pick. No one will argue with you there. He's got more polish than anyone at 4 and has the highest likelihood to contribute right away. He also projects to fit well next to Sabonis.

My reservation is how good does Murray need to be for us to reach the playoffs? I think no matter what it's fair to assume that the Suns, Warriors, Grizzlies, Mavs, Jazz (if they don't blow it up), Nuggets, and Clippers (if healthy) will all 100% be better than us. It's also very likely that the Wolves and Pelicans (especially if Zion comes back) are better than us. That leaves one playoff/play in spot available for the Kings, Lakers, Spurs, and Blazers to compete for. The Spurs are trending upward and it's hard for me to see the Lakers and Lebron missing the playoffs for two straight years.

So if we draft Murray and we aren't in the playoff picture come March-ish, will I have wished we just drafted a guy with higher potential like Ivey or Sharpe? Absolutely. Especially because there is no doubt that if we aren't a playoff team by then there will be loud calls to blow the team up and we'll be discussing what players we want to keep and how we want to move forward with a rebuild.

A pessimistic view for sure, but one that is very possible.

I feel the same ways pretty much. Here's my thing, between Murray and Ivey I don't think they can go wrong. However, with Ivey they can certainly go most right if he develops. Plus teams exposed it, they actually consider Ivey pretty much clear BPA with those other 3 up top. I think the help now domino falls next summer when they have space to make a move, fill out the roster, or pick up assets with bad contracts if they need to rebuild. Shoot for a 3rd star in the draft, not win now on a rookie. That's plain stupid. If they want to win now then yeah, trade the pick and watch it potentially Vlade your resume in a few years. Murray is older and has skills but figuring him to be the one to get the team over the hump on day 1 isn't fair to him or any rookie especially when you consider some of his downsides in relation to positional versatility. Sure, a rookie can make an impact but still not wise as a plan.
 
Pretty much. I was also big on kicking the tires on Jalen Johnson, liked Wagner as a safe pick, was not enthusiastic about Moody, was intrigued but nervous about Kuminga, and really liked Sengun. Mitchell wasn't even on my radar and I was really frustrated by the pick when the "core" at that point was clearly Fox & Mitchell.

A good reminder not to overreact on draft night and to remember that for bad teams, BPA is almost always the right answer.
Particularly when you're in the window of what is considered the "star" portion of the draft. If Ivey were a glaringly bad fit then it might change things, but he's not. Nobody in the top 4 is. Some are obviously better than others, and when Chet/Smith fall to 4 I guess this will all be for not anyway, haha.
 
Franz Wagner is a good example of a "safe, low ceiling" prospect that might wind up being a really solid player. Put up about as good a rookie year as you could ask for. Gave you average shooting numbers at 15ppg and decent stats across the board. Any rookie that averages 15ppg has the ability to be a 20ppg scorer in the future. Good advanced metrics for a rookie as well.

If we wind up with Murray and he replicates Wagner's rookie year, we should be ecstatic.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
Assuming the guy you REALLY want is available at 2, I say broker a deal to move up. We need a star. We dont get stars here via free agency, so the ONLY way you get them is in the draft. We need a stud, so lets go get him. 22 #4, top 3 protected 23, other pieces
This is my 1A to the 1B of just not big-braining ourselves and taking Ivey at 4.

Anything else and I’ll scream like I did on Bagley night.
 
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