Kings/Jazz/Lakers

[Smills91]

Kings deal:
Brad Miller
John Salmons

Kings receive:
Andrei Kirilenko

Lakers deal:
Kwame Brown
#25

Lakers receive:
Brad Miller

Jazz deal:
Andrei Kirilenko

Jazz receive:
Kwame Brown
John Salmons
#25

 

[nbrans]

Not bad at all.

 

[Smills91]

Not bad at all.

We could draft Spencer Hawes (Maybe Hibbert) or Noah at #10....

C: Hawes/Hibbert/Noah, Justin Williams
PF: Ak-47, Shareef, Kenny
SF: Artest, Garcia
SG: Martin, Douby
PG: Bibby, Price

That frontline would be A LOT more athletic than it was before.

 

[nbrans]

Just say no to Hawes. But the original idea is pretty good.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Kings deal:
Brad Miller
John Salmons

Kings receive:
Andrei Kirilenko

Lakers deal:
Kwame Brown
#25

Lakers receive:
Brad Miller

Jazz deal:
Andrei Kirilenko

Jazz receive:
Kwame Brown
John Salmons
#25

The lakers lack defense, so why do they trade their best post defender (who is an expiring by the way) for a no D big who has a horrible contract?

 

[Smills91]

The lakers lack defense, so why do they trade their best post defender (who is an expiring by the way) for a no D big who has a horrible contract?

Because Brad Miller is STILL better than Kwame. And BY A LOT! Kwame SUCKS

 

[Vlade4GM]

Because Brad Miller is STILL better than Kwame. And BY A LOT! Kwame SUCKS

It doesn't really matter who you think is better as an overall player. The lakers have a much greater need for Kwame's defense than Miller's jump shot and passing. Even if they did value Miller's play more, they don't do this trade just because Kwame's contract is much more favorable. They're both mediocre rebounders and they both lack a low post game. Do you honestly believe the lakers value Miller's jump shooting and passing that much that they'd ignore he totally sucks defensively and has a crap contract?

 

[ParniValjak]

It doesn't really matter who you think is better as an overall player. The lakers have a much greater need for Kwame's defense than Miller's jump shot and passing. Even if they did value Miller's play more, they don't do this trade just because Kwame's contract is much more favorable. They're both mediocre rebounders and they both lack a low post game. Do you honestly believe the lakers value Miller's jump shooting and passing that much that they'd ignore he totally sucks defensively and has a crap contract?

Of course they don't!

And Miller doesn't even fit into the triangle offence and thats putting aside his bad defence. Brad Miller is as far away from a Phil Jackson type big than you could get.

 

[Smills91]

Of course they don't!

And Miller doesn't even fit into the triangle offence and thats putting aside his bad defence. Brad Miller is as far away from a Phil Jackson type big than you could get.

WHAT? The triangle offense is predicated on players that can all face the basket and use a triple threat as the primary weapon of attack keeping the defenders guessing. Brad Miller would be an IDEAL threat at C for the triangle offense. His lumbering drives may not be beautiful, but they are generally effective and complement his ability to pick apart defenses and knock down open jumpers. Kobe and Brad on the same team makes me ill though. With the Lakers SOOOO hard pressed to find a PG, Brad Miller may be a fresh idea to their half court woes.

 

[nbrans]

Of course they don't!

And Miller doesn't even fit into the triangle offence and thats putting aside his bad defence. Brad Miller is as far away from a Phil Jackson type big than you could get.

Is this sarcasm? Can't tell.

Anyway, Brad Miller is just about the most ideal center for the triangle you could hope to find. He'd be a perfect fit for the Lakers offense. Defense is another story, but put him next to Bynum and they'd be pretty good. In some sense Bynum and Brown duplicate each other.

 

[Smills91]

Is this sarcasm? Can't tell.

Anyway, Brad Miller is just about the most ideal center for the triangle you could hope to find. He'd be a perfect fit for the Lakers offense. Defense is another story, but put him next to Bynum and they'd be pretty good. In some sense Bynum and Brown duplicate each other.

QFT

 

[Vlade4GM]

Is this sarcasm? Can't tell.

Anyway, Brad Miller is just about the most ideal center for the triangle you could hope to find. He'd be a perfect fit for the Lakers offense. Defense is another story, but put him next to Bynum and they'd be pretty good. In some sense Bynum and Brown duplicate each other.

Actually Miller's skills fits the PF position in the triangle, but I don't think the lakers want a slug at their PF spot. Brown and Bynum don't duplicate each other, Bynum right now is just a weak side shot blocker on defense only, Kwame doesn't really help on defense his main skill is maining up against opposing team's bigs and he does it pretty well. Bynum is more advanced offensively than he is defensively while Kwame is the other way around. This is all irrelevant anyways since the lakers would never trade an expiring for Miller's horrendous contract. They're not going to give that up to downgrade defensively.

Also if a lakers first (which is 19th by the way) and Kwame could get AK from the jazz why wouldn't they just get AK themselves?

 

[Big Cuz 15]

the lakers would sooo jump on this deal. miller fits the triangle offense perfectly. they already have a center than can make up for miller's deficiencies.

 

[nbrans]

Actually Miller's skills fits the PF position in the triangle, but I don't think the lakers want a slug at their PF spot. Brown and Bynum don't duplicate each other, Bynum right now is just a weak side shot blocker on defense only, Kwame doesn't really help on defense his main skill is maining up against opposing team's bigs and he does it pretty well. Bynum is more advanced offensively than he is defensively while Kwame is the other way around. This is all irrelevant anyways since the lakers would never trade an expiring for Miller's horrendous contract. They're not going to give that up to to downgrade defensively.

Also if a lakers first (which is 19th by the way) and Kwame could get AK from the jazz why wouldn't they just get AK themselves?

I think Bynum is going to end up getting more and more time (also Turiaf), and I do think to some extent Kwame and Bynum duplicate each other. Presumably Bynum will improve as a defender, and as you can see from this game, the Lakers are really struggling on offense. Miller could really, really help them on offense as a distributor and to take an opposing center away from the basket for Kobe to drive to the hoop.

I don't actually think Kirilenko would be a great fit with the Lakers -- they already have Odom, who is the same sort of 3-4, and you're running into a position issue -- which tweener gets the playing time? In any event, Kwame and the 1st isn't enough from a salary perspective or a talent perspective, and I think Salmons is what makes it work for the Jazz. They could use him at the 2 as a perimeter defender and slasher.

I think there are plenty of reasons for the Lakers and the Jazz not to do this, but all the same, I think it's an intriguing idea.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think Bynum is going to end up getting more and more time, and in that case (also Turiaf), and I do think to some extent Kwame and Bynum duplicate each other. Presumably Bynum will improve as a defender, and as you can see from this game, the Lakers are really struggling on offense. Miller could really, really help them on offense as a distributor and to take an opposing center away from the basket for Kobe to drive to the hoop.

I don't actually think Kirilenko would be a great fit with the Lakers -- they already have Odom, who is the same sort of 3-4, and you're running into a position issue -- which tweener gets the playing time? In any event, Kwame and the 1st isn't enough from a salary perspective or a talent perspective, and I think Salmons is what makes it work for the Jazz. They could use him at the 2 as a perimeter defender and slasher.

I think there are plenty of reasons for the Lakers and the Jazz not to do this, but all the same, I think it's an intriguing idea.

Bynum would have to improve quite a bit defensively over one offseason to take over that kind of load in the post. If the lakers could leave him in for over 30 minutes they would have more, but the problem is he can't stay out of foul trouble. The only reason he has any value defensively right now is because of his length and hops to pick up blocks. He doesn't man up well and he often sacrifices his position trying for the block when he shouldn't. I don't deny Miller would help them offensively and they aren't exactly a finished product offensively but they really lack defensive talent. You take Kwame out and on top of that replace him with a defensive black hole you're looking at one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. Miller doesn't help their offense THAT much.

Easy. AK plays the 3, Lamar plays the 4 (like he currently is). AK can handle well, pass well, cut, and shoot a nice mid range J. He can fit in and he'd probably force Odom to set up in the post more. That's the kind of versatility PJ would love to have. The most important aspect though would be the versatile defense Kirilenko would add.

I can't imagine Salmons being the deal breaker in all of this.

 

[beb0p]

Agree with Vlade4GM. The Lakers would never do this. PJax always prefer blue-collar centers who can rebound and block. And not to mention the Lakers already has their own version of a mini-Brad Miller - Brian Cook.

When you're talking about the Lakers, you have to keep in mind that they are trying to model themselves after the MJ Bulls. In their scheme, Kobe is MJ, Odom is Pippen, Kwame is Hornance Grant, and they signed Radmanovic because they see him as Toni Kukoc. There is no way PJ give up his modern verion of Hornance for Brad Miller. This trade also ruins Cupcake's dream of pairing Kwame and Bynum as a dynamic frontcourt.

However, if you sub Mike Bibby for Brad Miller, the Lakers might do it.

 

[nbrans]

Agree with Vlade4GM. The Lakers would never do this. PJax always prefer blue-collar centers who can rebound and block. And not to mention the Lakers already has their own version of a mini-Brad Miller - Brian Cook.

When you're talking about the Lakers, you have to keep in mind that they are trying to model themselves after the MJ Bulls. In their scheme, Kobe is MJ, Odom is Pippen, Kwame is Hornance Grant, and they signed Radmanovic because they see him as Toni Kukoc. There is no way PJ give up his modern verion of Hornance for Brad Miller. This trade also ruins Cupcake's dream of pairing Kwame and Bynum as a dynamic frontcourt.

However, if you sub Mike Bibby for Brad Miller, the Lakers might do it.

Really? Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley, Bill Wennington??

And Vlade4GM, Bynum is going to get better -- he's only 19. Kwame Brown is not in their longterm plans. He's easily sacrificed, especially since Turiaf is looking pretty good as well.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I don't think Utah does this. They're trading a main rotation player for an ok swingman, an expiring, and a late first rounder?

 

[nbrans]

I don't think Utah does this. They're trading a main rotation player for an ok swingman, an expiring, and a late first rounder?

I think the question for Utah is whether they want to continue paying max money to a guy who, for them, has become just a rotation player. Kirilenko seems like he could use a change of scenery and a switch back to PF, and this could be a way for them of clearing his salary -- who knows, maybe they want to try and make it work next season, but this isn't such a bad deal for them.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Really? Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley, Bill Wennington??

And Vlade4GM, Bynum is going to get better -- he's only 19. Kwame Brown is not in their longterm plans. He's easily sacrificed, especially since Turiaf is looking pretty good as well.

I realize that, I'm not trying to say that the lakers can't afford to trade him. It's just they're not going to give up a good contract for a bad one and they're not going to give up good defense for horribly bad. It's the replacing good post defense with horrible post defense that's the problem. If you trade Kwame for Miller then you put all the defensive pressure on Bynum which is just unrealistic to expect from him to handle that at this point when he has a problem staying on the floor. I think at one point he'll be that kind of guy, but not by next year.

 

[Troy]

Is this sarcasm? Can't tell.

Anyway, Brad Miller is just about the most ideal center for the triangle you could hope to find. He'd be a perfect fit for the Lakers offense. Defense is another story, but put him next to Bynum and they'd be pretty good. In some sense Bynum and Brown duplicate each other.

Yeah, Miller is the passing big man they would like and he's a pretty good shooter for a big man. Brown and Bynum duplicate each other, there's only room for 1 big "B" and that's Bynum. Brown is pertty crappy and if he cannot be very good, then he never will with Kareem being his mentor, the Lakers are invested in Bynum becoming their star of the future. They're hoping he will develop quickly because Kobie isn't exactly getting younger in this being his 12th season.


Did you guys catch the Lakers/Suns game? Man was it beautiful the way the Suns dismantled the Lakers had a 30+ point lead at some points. Also Barbosa came down on Kobie's foot and completely rolled Kobie's ankle, Kobie came out of the game for good shortly after near the end of the game when it happened. It wasn't like the Lakers were going to win the game. He was hobbling a bit, but still gritted it out a bit.

 

[beb0p]

Really? Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley, Bill Wennington??

And Vlade4GM, Bynum is going to get better -- he's only 19. Kwame Brown is not in their longterm plans. He's easily sacrificed, especially since Turiaf is looking pretty good as well.

That just proves my point doesn't it? None of the Bulls' centers were of the jump-shooting and high-post passing variety. Longley and Wennington did great jobs just being big and dishing out hard fouls. Cartwright was more skilled and could score in the post. I remember it was a battle initially between PJ and Cartwright with PJ wanting his center to focus less on offense and more of the dirty work. A philosophy that Cartwright eventually bought into.

Also throw in Corie Blount, Scott Williams, Will Purdue, even John Salley for a little while. All of them blue collar players. None of them are jump-shooters' even though there were plenty of jump shooting centers in that era that the Bull could have easily had.

Yes, Brown can be traded. But for Brad Miller? Cupcake is dumb but he is not Isiah Thomas dumb.

 

[beb0p]

In some sense Bynum and Brown duplicate each other.

You're joking right? Those guys are just about opposite.

 

[tyrant]

WHAT? The triangle offense is predicated on players that can all face the basket and use a triple threat as the primary weapon of attack keeping the defenders guessing. Brad Miller would be an IDEAL threat at C for the triangle offense. His lumbering drives may not be beautiful, but they are generally effective and complement his ability to pick apart defenses and knock down open jumpers. Kobe and Brad on the same team makes me ill though. With the Lakers SOOOO hard pressed to find a PG, Brad Miller may be a fresh idea to their half court woes.

all i have to stick my hands in the air. thats how you defend brad miller

 

[Smills91]

Actually Miller's skills fits the PF position in the triangle, but I don't think the lakers want a slug at their PF spot. Brown and Bynum don't duplicate each other, Bynum right now is just a weak side shot blocker on defense only, Kwame doesn't really help on defense his main skill is maining up against opposing team's bigs and he does it pretty well. Bynum is more advanced offensively than he is defensively while Kwame is the other way around. This is all irrelevant anyways since the lakers would never trade an expiring for Miller's horrendous contract. They're not going to give that up to downgrade defensively.

Also if a lakers first (which is 19th by the way) and Kwame could get AK from the jazz why wouldn't they just get AK themselves?

Says who? The Lakers are NEVER going to get below the salary cap while they have Odom/Kobe/Bynum(with his near pending extension) on the books over the next 3 years or so. Buss isn't afraid of the Lux tax. And I think you COMPLETELY overrate Kwame's defense. He's decent-average. Brad isn't a stopper by anymeans, but as long as he's not the last line of defense, he'll do okay on D, unlike currently.

 

[Smills91]

all i have to stick my hands in the air. thats how you defend brad miller

Either you undderate Brad Miller's skills as a basketball player or you're completely ignorant about the offensive sets found in the triangle offense. One way or another you're way off base in your comment.

 

[Smills91]

That just proves my point doesn't it? None of the Bulls' centers were of the jump-shooting and high-post passing variety. Longley and Wennington did great jobs just being big and dishing out hard fouls. Cartwright was more skilled and could score in the post. I remember it was a battle initially between PJ and Cartwright with PJ wanting his center to focus less on offense and more of the dirty work. A philosophy that Cartwright eventually bought into.

Also throw in Corie Blount, Scott Williams, Will Purdue, even John Salley for a little while. All of them blue collar players. None of them are jump-shooters' even though there were plenty of jump shooting centers in that era that the Bull could have easily had.

Yes, Brown can be traded. But for Brad Miller? Cupcake is dumb but he is not Isiah Thomas dumb.

WHAT? You need ESPN classic man. That's EXACTLY what they were, just not AS GOOD as BRad.

 

[Smills91]

I realize that, I'm not trying to say that the lakers can't afford to trade him. It's just they're not going to give up a good contract for a bad one and they're not going to give up good defense for horribly bad. It's the replacing good post defense with horrible post defense that's the problem. If you trade Kwame for Miller then you put all the defensive pressure on Bynum which is just unrealistic to expect from him to handle that at this point when he has a problem staying on the floor. I think at one point he'll be that kind of guy, but not by next year.

Since when did Brad Miller become a BAD contract? He's a starting CEnter in the NBA that can produce 15/8/4 on 50/80%'s 10 million a year in about the going rate for a starting caliber center.

THink of all the main 7 footers that have been in the league past their rookie contracts...most make near upwards towards 10 million or more. Brad is NOT a bad contract. It's not a Bargain, but it's not a BAD contract either. He gets paid the market value of a starting center.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Says who? The Lakers are NEVER going to get below the salary cap while they have Odom/Kobe/Bynum(with his near pending extension) on the books over the next 3 years or so. Buss isn't afraid of the Lux tax. And I think you COMPLETELY overrate Kwame's defense. He's decent-average. Brad isn't a stopper by anymeans, but as long as he's not the last line of defense, he'll do okay on D, unlike currently.

No, Kwame is an above average post defender when it comes to man to man defense. That's basically why the lakers make such a big deal about him being hurt and basically playing on one ankle right now. Believe me, they value his defense so much to the point that they've said he was the key to their success at the end of the year when he was missing time with his ankle injury. I've seen him man up very well against Duncan, Garnett, Yao, Amare, JO, etc. If he's good at anything, he's definitely good at that. Being able to body up well with the best bigs in the game is an asset that the lakers do value.

Miller is a horrible defender no matter who he's playing with, sure any crappy defender in the post won't look as bad if they have a tim duncan there, but the lakers don't. They have a foul prone Turiaf and Bynum.

I don't care if the lakers won't ever get under the cap, they're still not going to trade a valuable expiring contract for a damn near unmovable contract unless that player is a 2 way all-star type player. They don't accept that bad contract in return for Brad Miller who's only getting older and slower.

 

[Dime Dropper]

And I think you COMPLETELY overrate Kwame's defense. He's decent-average. Brad isn't a stopper by anymeans, but as long as he's not the last line of defense, he'll do okay on D, unlike currently.

No, no one has even remotely overrated Kwame on D. He's built like a tank, extremely strong and impossible to move in the post. Whether you see it or not, the Lakers value him for his excellent post defense and footwork. I would take Kwame over Miller right now (I know what Miller used to be, but he's getting older). Decent-average? Alot of Lakers fans would have your head right now if they saw this

He's a starting CEnter in the NBA that can produce 15/8/4 on 50/80%'s 10 million a year in about the going rate for a starting caliber center.

Brad Miller cannot produce those kind of numbers anymore. If he could then we wouldn't be looking to move him so bad.

Over the last few weeks you've made a huge amount of trade threads, almost everyone of them lopsided or unrealistic. You overvalue our players and what they can do. Try to think about why the other team would do the trade and don't just think of the positives about a player because the other team can also see his weaknesses. The last thing the Lakers need to do is get even softer inside. BMiller is also getting injured alot, why would they take him essentially for Kwame?

Makes zero sense.