[Game] Kings @ Grizzlies - Friday, Nov. 16 - 5:00 PM PT

[kb02]

And 1:

I came away from the game smiling. Kings would've gotten blown out last year--Memphis was more efficient and had a great game plan to exploit Bjelly and attack the Kings guards on defense.

Every time Fox hit a jumper or made a play during a critical juncture of the game, I smiled. I smiled even more after the play where Fox drove and effectively karate chopped Marc Gasol in the face. That's the play of a young Kobe or a young AI. I was fortunate enough to watch a young Kobe do his thing for a few years (was in LA, roomies were Laker fans). Fox is doing the same thing now--willing his team to stay in games. Pushing and hitting the opposing team in the face when the Kings need a score or a momentum shift.

Speaking of AI, I watched some old film of his. He was fearless. And everyone seemed to be moving in slow motion relative to him. Fox reminds me a bit of him when attacking. Everyone moves in slow motion relative to Fox. We got a beast.

 

[Ozymandias]

I must've been watching a different game then everyone here.

See box score here: http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401070901

Memphis clearly designed a game plan to exploit Bjelly. Look at the number of FGs for JJJ vs the number of FGs for Bags. And they didn't exactly match up with each other when on the floor at the same time--less than 50% of the time. Bags low rebounding was directly related to 1. being used as the screen and roller on offense and 2. Memphis being an excellent rebounding team--they box out and shield opposing players extremely well. Rebounds that Bags would normally be able to get against less effective rebounding teams, he wasn't able to grab in this game because he often rolled into box outs and shielding defenders.

JJJ is longer than Bags and it showed in last year's MSU vs. Duke game as well. But the physical trajectory of the two are completely different--JJJ projects as a traditional big with an awkward, but effective shot. While Bags is going to end up being a 4, who can play some 3, grab a board, bring it up the floor and then score or dish.

The biggest worry from last night was Bjelly--not Bags. His defensive shortcomings are impacting his offensive game. Joeger needs to hide him by sending him to the second unit and letting Bjelly and Bogs do their thing. The reason why Joeger hasn't done so is because of our hole at the 3 spot. We need a 3, who can consistently stretch the floor. Shump is hit or miss.

0:41 He blocks a weak attempt by Marvin in the 2nd Q.
0:49 Establishes such dominant position on Marvin that he's pinned him under the basket, misses, gets an oboard and putback with a hookshot over him, relatively easily.
1:35 This play the worst offender. Has bad positioning but still outworks Harry and Marvin for the board..
1:48 Marvin gets beat in P'n'R, caught flat-footed.
2:02 Marvin gets caught ball-watching in crucial 4th q minutes, gives up an easy layup.

 

[Livinthedream]

I must've been watching a different game then everyone here.

See box score here: http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401070901

Memphis clearly designed a game plan to exploit Bjelly. Look at the number of FGs for JJJ vs the number of FGs for Bags. And they didn't exactly match up with each other when on the floor at the same time--less than 50% of the time. Bags low rebounding was directly related to 1. being used as the screen and roller on offense and 2. Memphis being an excellent rebounding team--they box out and shield opposing players extremely well. Rebounds that Bags would normally be able to get against less effective rebounding teams, he wasn't able to grab in this game because he often rolled into box outs and shielding defenders.

JJJ is longer than Bags and it showed in last year's MSU vs. Duke game as well. But the physical trajectory of the two are completely different--JJJ projects as a traditional big with an awkward, but effective shot. While Bags is going to end up being a 4, who can play some 3, grab a board, bring it up the floor and then score or dish.

The biggest worry from last night was Bjelly--not Bags. His defensive shortcomings are impacting his offensive game. Joeger needs to hide him by sending him to the second unit and letting Bjelly and Bogs do their thing. The reason why Joeger hasn't done so is because of our hole at the 3 spot. We need a 3, who can consistently stretch the floor. Shump is hit or miss.

I agree. Our struggles have come based on Bjelly's performance. He was key in our early success. His shot hasn't been falling, changing the flow of the offense.

One thing that's missed in these rookie debates is that most of the top picks are either focal points of their teams offense, or factor heavily into their scheme. This is out of necessity because the teams were bad last year and need the help immediately. Bagley hasn't been featured and they have not run plays for him at all. He is not "needed" as a focal point right now due to the early play of Bjelly and the emergence of WCS.

For those who say we should have picked someone else then, remember that WCS growth was not guaranteed and we would be in trouble without his emergence and the unexpected signing of Bjelly. AND, the team was being given to our Fox as far as running the show, so we didn't need another guard on point forward.

Bagley has struggled at some things as of late, as have many of the Kings. The season is young and the team is young. If Bjelly doesn't turn it around soon, we may get the opportunity to see what Bagley can do with heavy minutes and an increased role.

 

[Ozymandias]

And 1:

I came away from the game smiling. Kings would've gotten blown out last year--Memphis was more efficient and had a great game plan to exploit Bjelly and attack the Kings guards on defense.

Every time Fox hit a jumper or made a play during a critical juncture of the game, I smiled. I smiled even more after the play where Fox drove and effectively karate chopped Marc Gasol in the face. That's the play of a young Kobe or a young AI. I was fortunate enough to watch a young Kobe do his thing for a few years (was in LA, roomies were Laker fans). Fox is doing the same thing now--willing his team to stay in games. Pushing and hitting the opposing team in the face when the Kings need a score or a momentum shift.

Speaking of AI, I watched some old film of his. He was fearless. And everyone seemed to be moving in slow motion relative to him. Fox reminds me a bit of him when attacking. Everyone moves in slow motion relative to Fox. We got a beast.

This. Last night I couldn't help but feel good about the game because of how well Fox showed, long as he plays like that this franchise is in good hands.

 

[Livinthedream]

And 1:

I came away from the game smiling. Kings would've gotten blown out last year--Memphis was more efficient and had a great game plan to exploit Bjelly and attack the Kings guards on defense.

Every time Fox hit a jumper or made a play during a critical juncture of the game, I smiled. I smiled even more after the play where Fox drove and effectively karate chopped Marc Gasol in the face. That's the play of a young Kobe or a young AI. I was fortunate enough to watch a young Kobe do his thing for a few years (was in LA, roomies were Laker fans). Fox is doing the same thing now--willing his team to stay in games. Pushing and hitting the opposing team in the face when the Kings need a score or a momentum shift.

Speaking of AI, I watched some old film of his. He was fearless. And everyone seemed to be moving in slow motion relative to him. Fox reminds me a bit of him when attacking. Everyone moves in slow motion relative to Fox. We got a beast.

Yes! I've been waiting for the AI comparison. Fox may have the personality of Mike Conley, but his game is Allen Iverson.

AI just had that extra level of confidence/arrogance to go along with his play and the ability to back it up. Some selfishness as well, which is the one ingredient that Fox doesn't have.

 

[JCTNKINGFAN]

Not a pretty game, too many turnovers. Memphis is a more veteran team than the Kings and did what they needed to do. Kings didn't adjust, confused rushing the offense with playing a fast pace, not the same thing. This is all part of the learning process. Kings are still looking good as far as their growth and progress. They fought hard and stayed in the game, effort was there, execution was not. People who are getting all fired up for a playoff run need to temper their expectations. Just look for continued growth and development. If this young developing team can make a playoff run, then that is just gravy.

I just glanced over the comments here, not going to bother to read all the negativity and woe. Same negative half dozen posters coming out of the wood work. That is so tiresome.

 

[Blob]

Frustrating game. Buddy was ice cold. Boggy missed shots he normally makes. Two of our three best players let us down. Bjelica was befuddled and bewildered. Jaren Jackson destroyed us. If Koufos was healthy, Joerger puts him in to stop the nonsense. JJJ would have scored 15 points instead of 25 and we likely win. I hate to see Temple do damage to us. The guy was a bricklayer for us last year know all of the sudden he is pure money? Then you have Willie the Enigma consistently conceding ground then fouling. I think he gave up two or three and-1s. If there was a stat somewhere, which I think there is, I bet Willie would be a league leader in allowing and-ones!

The and-one to Gasol was a killer when we had the momentum. Willie has to give up his body on the play! That play was gut check test. That play was how bad do you want it?! I don't miss much about Cousins, but one thing I do miss is he would sacrifice his body. He would force the ref to blow his whistle. Gasol barrels down the lane in slow mo and you are right in front of him. You either have to force him to run you over to take the charge, block the shot or foul him on the shot attempt! Willie does none of this and our comeback is repelled.

Now, if we had to lose this game for a rotational change to permanently occur, it was a favorable day in Kings Land. I cannot emphasize enough how wrong Jackson is as a complementary piece, physically and psychologically, and how right Troy Williams is. Williams forced one three, but he drilled two threes, kept alive an offensive possession with offensive rebound and broke ahead of the pack for an emphatic dunk that had the bench on their feet. Jackson can make none of these plays! Troy Williams has brass balls! We need players with brass balls! D-Fox knows Williams can play that is why he threw the lead ahead pass to him. If G-Leaguer was ahead, D-Fox would have held onto the ball instead. Ballers don't like to pass to non-ballers, they like to pass to ballers! Game recognizes game.

As far as tonight, I like this matchup for us better than the Grizzlies. D-Fox and Shump, respectively, will make CP3 and Harden work for their points. This will be an interesting test for D-Fox and his incredible defensive ability. The Rockets are playing great since they exiled Melo with impressive wins on the road against the Pacers and the Nuggets. This leads me to my previous point. Look how instrumental one player can be to the fortunes and competitiveness of a team. If Jackson plays his usual 20 MPG last night we lose by 20 instead of having a chance at the end. When Melo was in the Rockets rotation, the team was woeful. His ISO play and bricklaying had a contagious and deflating effect. Now they are getting their swagger back. When Jackson is out there for us, we are playing 4-on-5 on offense and he is at best average on defense, but only when he is not getting overpowered and outhustled.

Tonight is a test for Willie to gauge his improvement. Capella usually destroys him. Even though we are on a back-to-back, I don't think it will be an issue after our 4-day rest. Giles needs to show out against Hartenstein. You can't let this guy run over you like the Memphis backups did. If Giles wants to stay in the rotation, his learning curve with regards to defense better get to curving! If it continues to flatline, where he does not do his work early with his feet instead of his hands, it is hard to have him on the court. If you don't get the damn rebound, put your body on your man to prevent him from getting it so you teammate can swoop in.

We need this win! We need a breakout game from Buddy or Bagley or both. We need D-Fox to expose CP3 and his 33 year old legs. Lets go!

 

[TaxMan]

Hield was -23 in 28 minutes last night... With all the nitpicking going on here figure that deserves mention.

Buddy was terrible. I don’t care what his shooting stats look like on paper, he was extremely careless, especially at the start of the second half. Really felt like he killed our mo anytime we got something going (to be fair, same could be said of fox’s turnovers, but at least he was a net positive with his overall effort). This was the first game all year where I was really felt like buddy regressed. I’ll just chalk it up to a bad night, however he has had a few quarters in many of our recent games where he just hasn’t given us anything.

 

[netseee]

what's wrong with harry giles, 7mins with 4 fouls

 

[Kings_of_California]

what's wrong with harry giles, 7mins with 4 fouls

This reminds me of something hilarious I read a while back in regards to foul trouble -

The TWolves used to have this huge, burly center named Nikola Pekovic. A lot of people might remember him. He was a foul MACHINE during his rookie year (He averaged 13.8 min and 2.8 fouls per game!). I was reading a scouting report on him, I think it was John Hollinger, and he was like "Nikola Pekovic fouls so much... he's actually fouling me as I type this".

Harry is currently worse than that, averaging 2.6 fouls over 10 MPG. Really small sample size, but come on Harry. Don't be Pekovic.

 

[Larry89]

what's wrong with harry giles, 7mins with 4 fouls

Poor positioning and lateral movement, doesnt guard the play but tries to guard an area. Compensates his lack of defensive positioning using his arms and hands and picks up fouls.

Buddy was also a disaster this game, he was looking for his own shot and that's it. Killing posessions and rushing shots, sloppy with the ball.

 

[206Fan]

what's wrong with harry giles, 7mins with 4 fouls

Everyone overestimated Harry Giles. Even in his good game after Stokcton of 12pts 6rebs in 16minutes, he still had 5 fouls and 3 turnovers.

He struggles both physically and laterally against bigs. I think he has extremely poor defensive awareness and IQ. Anytime a big backs him up, he hugs them and swipes at the ball from behind. When someone tries to attack the rim, he goes in for a reach instead of contesting the shot. He commits extremely dumb and unnecessary fouls. Everyone overestimated him. This is why I said everyone should be extremely careful by front office driven hype. He is RAW

 

[netseee]

It is better to send Harry Giles back to g-league until he can improve foul trouble, otherwise, he can't be alive in NBA

 

[Kingsfan23]

If it’s lateral movement, is it correctable? I’ve called it “stop and start” directionality, but he doesn’t move quite as well on the floor as he should. “Trusting his knee” has become a euphemism, for this as well. He’s a talented guy, only 20, much more skilled than he was billed coming out, which speaks to his work ethic. So I hope he’s able to get to a place where he can move at a pace that keeps him up with the game, eventually

 

[kb02]

Kings are +12 against Houston. I would hit that line all freaking day.

 

[ESP47]

Everyone overestimated Harry Giles. Even in his good game after Stokcton of 12pts 6rebs in 16minutes, he still had 5 fouls and 3 turnovers.

He struggles both physically and laterally against bigs. I think he has extremely poor defensive awareness and IQ. Anytime a big backs him up, he hugs them and swipes at the ball from behind. When someone tries to attack the rim, he goes in for a reach instead of contesting the shot. He commits extremely dumb and unnecessary fouls. Everyone overestimated him. This is why I said everyone should be extremely careful by front office driven hype. He is RAW

It's not front office hype. It's how he looked in summer league. He looked like the quarterback of the defense out there for the majority of the games and now he looks like a completely different player. He's still super young and raw so I'm not going to worry about it too much but his play shows the obvious difference in NBA level big men compared to everyone else.

 

[The_Jamal]

It is better to send Harry Giles back to g-league until he can improve foul trouble, otherwise, he can't be alive in NBA

Completely disagree. These are the warts you have to take when developing a young big man. Especially a guy who hasn't played a healthy year of basketball in like 5 years. He's adjusting absolutely for the size and speed of the NBA, but that guy we saw in Summer League and even preseason, just all of a sudden disappear. But there's a huge difference when you have to size up against grown ass men like Gasol, LMA, Steven Adams, Gobert, Jval, etc.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well, we can't have a team that wins when Belly hits a couple bomb open three pointers and loses when he doesn't. We're going to have to find a way to integrate him and every other player to maximize their contribution even when shots aren't falling.

Or like the good teams they find ways to get their best players in rhythm. Almost every single team lives and dies with 4 players or so on the offensive end. It's when you rely on role players consistently to hit those bigs shots that you are playing with fire. The percentages dictate where those shots need to go and it's up to your gameplan to make sure it happens more than not. Open shots are good up until the point that the best players on your team are oversharing.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Bagley needs to face up his defender and attack from the triple threat position more often. The same way JJJ was attacking Bjelica.

Marvs still a kid and a lot of the time hes trying to post up full grown men. He's just not fully there yet.

He will be there in time when he gets stronger, but for now maybe he should be focused on that mid range pop and using his quickness off the bounce to beat other bigs.

 

[dude12]

Some people don’t learn. Bagley and I’ll even say Giles are going to be very good. Bagley has star potential. It’s the same as Fox. Young guys who will get their first year in, work on their bodies and develop their skills to be successful.

I was confidant that Fox was the franchise PG from the start, he just needed to add muscle and develop. Same for the two young bigs. These 2 bigs together are going to be special but it is going to take a year. Special. Nobody in their right mind would write these guys off already. And no one in their right mind should look at where a kid is drafted and expect them to perform a certain way already.

 

[Nokidding]

Is it me or does Wayne Seldon always destroy us of the bench? Good to see Troy Williams with some great plays, I was really disappointed with WCS there was one play where Mack was on a fast break with a King in front of him and WCS not to far behind Mack and he didn't even bother to try block the shot. I don't understand why he doesn't even attempt to protect the rim.

Also for the people critical of Bjelly defense against JJJ I said earlier in the thread in the Bucks game he did the same thing a number of times to arguably the biggest freak in the NBA Giannis, JJJ to me baring injury is going to be unreal, he reminds me a little of Cousins on offense with the ball handling and the way he drives the ball for a big but obviously a way better athlete/body and should be a DPOY candidate pretty easily.

He makes Giannis look weak on a number of plays and after seeing him do that to me he looks like he's going to be the best player of this draft

 

[sactowndog]

Ya I remember fox being really good at first then regressed a little in February I believe

Fox only made the rising stars game due to injury and didn’t make first or second team all rookie. He showed flashes last year but generally looked bad.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Fox only made the rising stars game due to injury and didn’t make first or second team all rookie. He showed flashes last year but generally looked bad.

He showed flashes though of talent at the level he’s playing at. It would be akin to Marvin gliding to dominant games confidently here and there, or putting his stamp on games in the clutch, while there was an offensive system working against his talent (like the high post half court offense and Fox). If that happened we could reason in our minds why it wasn’t happening regularly and be hopeful to see it continually in the future

 

[VF21]

Completely disagree. These are the warts you have to take when developing a young big man. Especially a guy who hasn't played a healthy year of basketball in like 5 years. He's adjusting absolutely for the size and speed of the NBA, but that guy we saw in Summer League and even preseason, just all of a sudden disappear. But there's a huge difference when you have to size up against grown ass men like Gasol, LMA, Steven Adams, Gobert, Jval, etc.

Bravo.