Kevn Martin's injury a blessing in disguise

#1
I believe that Kevin's injury was a blessing in disguise as it let Tyreke start to show what he can do as the #1 guy. It's not a knock on Kevin, just saying it opened up more chances for Tyreke to gain confidence. I would like to see Kevin defer to Tyreke when he comes back.
The injury also opened up minutes for Donte, who looks like he's gaining confidence and playing in control.
 
#2
Yep, clearly Kevin is no longer going to be the "go to" guy. Hence forth he'll merely be a guy who should be able to score most looks he gets. That's all he ever should have been.
 
#3
Yep, clearly Kevin is no longer going to be the "go to" guy. Hence forth he'll merely be a guy who should be able to score most looks he gets. That's all he ever should have been.
And that's what he was when he had a main-guy teammate, despite the quality of said teammate. Remember when Kevin was scoring a lot of points with very few attempts (and a lot of free throws)? He had a #1 guy in Artest who dominated the ball.

Now, the value of Artest as the #1 guy is another discussion, but with Kevin not as the #1 guy his true shooting % was unbelievable. He was not taking the 20 or so shots a game he was taking at the start of this season.

I am really excited about seeing Kevin work with Reke and the rest of these guys in a new pejaesqe role (but with more defense and rebounding hopefully:rolleyes:)
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#4
not to nitpick or anything but wasnt evans the main go-to guy in highschool and college? i know that the nba is a totally different beast but still...

its also kinda funny how the 3 of you combine for less than 100 posts... thats not a insult i just thought it was kinda funny.
 
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Kingsguy881

Guest
#5
not to nitpick or anything but wasnt evans the main go-to guy in highschool and college? i know that the nba is a totally different beast but still...

its also kinda funny how the 3 of you combine for less than 100 posts... thats not a insult i just thought it was kinda funny.
What is your point? That he was the go to guy and his teams succeeded? Great point!
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#6
What is your point? That he was the go to guy and his teams succeeded? Great point!
did you even read the OP?

he said that martins absence would give evans a chance to get used to being the number 1 guy... and i said what i said because he has always been the number 1 go-to guy... what does he have to get used to?

im so glad that i changed my sig... i was getting tired of typing that after every post...
 
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Kingsguy881

Guest
#7
did you even read the OP?

he said that martins absence would give evans a chance to get used to being the number 1 guy... and i said what i said because he has always been the number 1 go-to guy... what does he have to get used to?

im so glad that i changed my sig... i was getting tired of typing that after every post...
Hey I was giving you credit! I wasn't trying to argue with you. I thought it was a good point.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#8
Hey I was giving you credit! I wasn't trying to argue with you. I thought it was a good point.
my bad then, but smilies are your friend... sarcasm really doesnt work on message boards. its weird because for some reason it does work in text messages. weird....:confused:
 
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Kingsguy881

Guest
#9
not to nitpick or anything but wasnt evans the main go-to guy in highschool and college? i know that the nba is a totally different beast but still...

its also kinda funny how the 3 of you combine for less than 100 posts... thats not a insult i just thought it was kinda funny.
And BTW, your sig kinda negates itself with comments like these.

I'm not trying to argue with you anymore homie. I was actually hoping we could get along and then I can persuade you to give the players a chance. If it makes you feel any better, I'll stop posting completely when my count hits 420. Or maybe not. ;)

And in your honor, I'm going to add to this post to keep me 420. I honestly think you need to leave LA, come hang out with some of us Kings fans. You know what I do on game night? 4.20 and a homie or 2 and some homebrewed beer and a lot of Kings talk in the backyard during commercials and breaks, a cig or two, and back in to watch the game. Man, you are missing that kinda fun, and I think being around snotty *** Laker fans makes enjoying your Kings a little bit harder. Come on up to Sac and join us!!!
 
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#10
not to nitpick or anything but wasnt evans the main go-to guy in highschool and college? i know that the nba is a totally different beast but still...

its also kinda funny how the 3 of you combine for less than 100 posts... thats not a insult i just thought it was kinda funny.

Dominating in colllege and high school doesn't necessarily translate the same way to the NBA. Players like Adam Morrison and JJ Reddick are prime examples as well as Kwame Brown.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#11
Dominating in colllege and high school doesn't necessarily translate the same way to the NBA. Players like Adam Morrison and JJ Reddick are prime examples as well as Kwame Brown.
thats true but you didnt say anything about dominating you said that he would have time to get used to being the number 1 option. as far as i can tell he's always been the number 1 guy.

kwame was drafted out of highschool... and he was never dominate at anything other than being tall...
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#12
And BTW, your sig kinda negates itself with comments like these.

I'm not trying to argue with you anymore homie. I was actually hoping we could get along and then I can persuade you to give the players a chance. If it makes you feel any better, I'll stop posting completely when my count hits 420. Or maybe not. ;)

And in your honor, I'm going to add to this post to keep me 420. I honestly think you need to leave LA, come hang out with some of us Kings fans. You know what I do on game night? 4.20 and a homie or 2 and some homebrewed beer and a lot of Kings talk in the backyard during commercials and breaks, a cig or two, and back in to watch the game. Man, you are missing that kinda fun, and I think being around snotty *** Laker fans makes enjoying your Kings a little bit harder. Come on up to Sac and join us!!!
its really not that bad in los angeles, we are all so under the influence that we really dont care about what the lakers are doing and we go to 7-eleven and buy munchies... man we totally hijacked this dudes thread...
 
#13
You know what I do on game night? 4.20 and a homie or 2 and some homebrewed beer and a lot of Kings talk in the backyard during commercials and breaks, a cig or two, and back in to watch the game. Man, you are missing that kinda fun, and I think being around snotty *** Laker fans makes enjoying your Kings a little bit harder. Come on up to Sac and join us!!!
God I miss Sac:(
 
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Kingsguy881

Guest
#14
its really not that bad in los angeles, we are all so under the influence that we really dont care about what the lakers are doing and we go to 7-eleven and buy munchies... man we totally hijacked this dudes thread...
Dude....you should still come up to Sac some time. If you plan on it let me know and I'll be glad to have you come over and drink some brews, smokin on dem tweeds and everything with me and my Kings fan homies. Guaranteed you will have a blast man.

edit: dammit I messed up and am now on post #421.
 
#16
my bad then, but smilies are your friend... sarcasm really doesnt work on message boards. its weird because for some reason it does work in text messages. weird....:confused:
I don't know about that. I have seen way too many arguments started over text messages that were misinterpreted and taken the wrong way. That is one reason why I try to avoid actual conversations through texting.
 
#17
While it seems that people want to be respectful to Kevin, I will somewhat bash his game. Tyreke Evans seems that he will be a better player than what Kevin Martin could ever be. Kevin Martin is the K-Mart of a team leader...the cheap version. He lacks elements to his game..he is merely a very good scorer. Kevin is very injury prone due to his frail body (by NBA standards). And yet he relies on his slim figure to be quick, and score. Kevin cannot defend many NBA players and while it may not be so obvious, his weaknesses on D hurt our team greatly.

Tyreke on the other hand is an all around player, a leader. What has suprised me is that not only have the Kings been able to put up points without Kevin on offense, but they've been very good at it. Minus Kevin's weak defense and factor in Tyreke, you may well have a better team without Kevin Martin. Agree or disagree, but I look forward to the possibility of trading K-Mart for another piece. I understand that it's been a few games, but I am very impressed in what I have seen, and I believe in this new team. I think that at this point I would be happy to trade K-Mart for a top 4 or 5 pick, or a very good young all around player, if that is even possible. Take of it what you will.
 
#18
Haven't we been saying that Kevin would be best as a #2 option all along? And now we want to ship Kevin out as soon as we get a potential #1, just because the new guy is better?

This forum makes my head hurt.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#21
man we wouldve beaten the rockets by 30 if martin had played... the dude was on a tear before he got injured.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#22
Haven't we been saying that Kevin would be best as a #2 option all along? And now we want to ship Kevin out as soon as we get a potential #1, just because the new guy is better?

This forum makes my head hurt.

Was until I got a feel for our presumed #1's game.

If for instance our #1 had been Amare...just to bring up a name tossed around last year, or Bosh, those pairings with Kevin made sense. Now I think we would still have lost -- pairing up two softies doesn't make one "hardie". But they would have complemented each other to a certain degree, the classic inside/outside pairing, and players with a similar "feel" -- i.e. soft big scorers most comfortable in an uptempo no defense setting. They actually would not have worked at all minus a third cirtical piece in that case -- the mythical pure point long talked about around here that would be needed to get the ball not only to two hungry scorers, but set up everyone else as well since the hungry scorers in question don't make anybody else but themselves better. But there would be a theory there -- a coherent team picture where the pieces fit. I could also have seen Kevin with a star pure PG type -- the problem tehre being many/most of those are very soft themselves and again maybe there is no defense in Sactown. But a player who spent most of his time trying to set others up, including Kevin, could have fit. In that case Kevin is probably even still the #1 scorer, just not the #1 most important player.

But now along comes Reke...and even setting the first 5 games aside, where he was clearly deferring too much to Kevin and muting his impact as we did our normal losing thing, Reke's game does not seem suited for a Kevin style wing scorer. And I mean this setting aside whether Kevin can coherently fit into a crew winning games on heart and hustle. I am referring to offense.

Think about Kevin's game, here would be elements:
1) 3pt shooting
2) leak outs on the break
3) one on ones, normally with picks etc. to get him room
4) cuts/backdoor cuts
5) popping free off of staggered screens

now 1) and 2) can work with Reke's game. But 3) takes the ball out of his hands, and unlike the current situation where it is then in Beno's hands, who is a capable PG able to get others involved wiht plays on the other side of the court, instead it goes to a player who is basically only good at setting himself up to score. Team involvement plummets. It becomes whatever Reke can produce for others, and then Kevin gets his own. #'s 4 & 5 as I have mentioend in the past, largely hijackl entire offensive sets and various teammates who's big purpose is to set up a Kevin shot. Again, while this is going on the ball is essentially out of Reke's hands. Its not an organic thing he can contribute to. Now Reke could work with a star big man -- the big man would be in front of him, he could play pick and roll with him, drop passes off to him, use his screens etc. But put him with Kevin...and its not organic. The structured scoring that Kevin does woudl largely come at the expense of Reke creating. He is reduced to spectator while the play for Kevin either works or doesn't. Nor is Reke of much help as a spot shooter should Kevin's play break down. Now Kevin's 3pt shooting and speed on the break (assuming that he gets the new teamwide dedication to staying in on defense and fighting until that ball is secured) both could fit. Those things fit naturally around Reke's game. But those two traits alone are possessed by quite a few players in the NBA, including a number of roleplayers who provide extra help in other areas of the game (defense etc.). If that is all you use Kevin for, you are wasting him (and his $11mil), and you are not really gaining all those other areas (defense) etc. you could with a more limited offensive player who did other things well.

Its not Kevin changing as a #2 option (although I have long said I think he would be a great #3 ala Ray Allen, but have less confidence in him as #2). Its about the apparent #1 we have found here. If CWebb were still here as a #1 (in his prime obviously) Kevin could have played the Peja #2 role, and well. Put Kevin out in Phoenix next to Nash and Amare in the run n gun and his scoring should be huge. But now put him there next to Tyreke Evans...and it begins to look apples and oranges. Like two guys with talent who share a backcourt and take turns rather than two guys who complement each other and make the other player, and team better.

That does not mean that I am 100% sure that if Kevin returns we'll get worse. I could see it happening, but I don't consider Kevin a cancer so much as just somebody who is by the very nature of his game going to compete for the ball with a player who makes thing happen. So mayeb the additinal talent outweighs that and we still do the same, or maybe even better. But do we do as much better as we would with a different, better fitting piece who we might be able to bring back in a Kevin trade?
 
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#23
Hopefully Kevin can accept the fact he needs to stop his one on ones and play team offense which we do now. The Kings make more runs now than in the past 2 years, since Martins injury. Reke needs to be option 1, Jason 2, Martin 3 Beno 4th.

Once Martin comes back, if we go 3-7 in 10 games. It's official. Trade MARTIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#24
When Martin comes back I'd like to see him do what he does very well - move without the ball. At times, prior to injury, he looked like he was trying to do too much, just like he did at times last year. With Evans handling the ball, and Martin moving without the ball, that's a very complementary pair on offense. Also, Martin can post up when teams put their big guy on Evans. To make it work, Martin must handle the ball less than he was this year and play a role more like he did a couple of years ago.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#25
When Martin comes back I'd like to see him do what he does very well - move without the ball. At times, prior to injury, he looked like he was trying to do too much, just like he did at times last year. With Evans handling the ball, and Martin moving without the ball, that's a very complementary pair on offense. Also, Martin can post up when teams put their big guy on Evans. To make it work, Martin must handle the ball less than he was this year and play a role more like he did a couple of years ago.
I think Kevin was taking more shots than usual for 2 reasons. One, he was actually healthy and had some lift on his shot. Two, we had mason and may in the starting lineup, and had to get offense from somewhere.

Before Kevin went out, tyreke and JT were still getting their shots, but not converting, or playing as well as they are now. I think if we had Noc and Spencer in the starting lineup along with Kevin, he wouldn't force things as much. Also, Tyreke didn't seem to know where to get Kevin, or anyone the ball the first few games, and Kevin had to create for himself. Each game Tyreke is getting better and finding teammates and getting them the ball where they can do something with it. Thats expected for a new pg on any team, and as it improves and Kevin comes back our offense will look more fluid. Kevin is one of the best at moving without the ball, and with JT's passing of late, and Tyreke getting a better understanding of where Kevin needs the ball when coming off screens, things will work out.

When Kevin comes back we still need him to be aggressive, but I don't see him getting up as many shots, but I see him getting better shots.
 
#26
This is a no brainer. The bottom line is the Kings have never been good when Kevin has been in a leading role. The reason why the Kings look so good right now is becasue they are playing defense and outworking teams. Name me one game where Kmart has played defense, or outworked an opponent? Yes he is an excellent scorer, but do you want a one dimensional player? Udoka had done more for the Kings in one week then Kmart has done in one year. Kmart would be great on a good team where all he would have to do is score. He would also be an excellent 6th man if he ever accepted that role, but it is very clear the Kings don't miss him one bit!
 
#27
When Martin comes back I'd like to see him do what he does very well - move without the ball. At times, prior to injury, he looked like he was trying to do too much, just like he did at times last year. With Evans handling the ball, and Martin moving without the ball, that's a very complementary pair on offense. Also, Martin can post up when teams put their big guy on Evans. To make it work, Martin must handle the ball less than he was this year and play a role more like he did a couple of years ago.

Exactly. I don't see a lot of faith in our coach, in Kevin Martin, or even in Tyreke in all of this calling for Kevin's head. His talents are unique on this team, and used properly his re-addition to a surging team could take us to the next level. Defenses having to respect him and his movement can open things up more for other players. His ability to get to the line and make free throws will help us when things slow down and we need to put points on the board.

That said, Bricklayer's assessment is just as likely. This is a unique time in Kings land, and none of us knows how things are going to play out when Kevin or Francisco come back. In the meantime it would be nice if we could show a little loyalty to a lifetime King.
 
#28
When Martin comes back I'd like to see him do what he does very well - move without the ball. At times, prior to injury, he looked like he was trying to do too much, just like he did at times last year. With Evans handling the ball, and Martin moving without the ball, that's a very complementary pair on offense. Also, Martin can post up when teams put their big guy on Evans. To make it work, Martin must handle the ball less than he was this year and play a role more like he did a couple of years ago.
did you watch the first couple games? He was trying to do more because nobody else was stepping up. Don't blame him for others not showing up.

I think a point missed in all this is JT has really been the #1 lately. Dude is playing at an all star level right now. Don't dont think he has been the #1? JT's per 21.71, Evans 16.24. And while some will discount the stats thats a pretty good spread between the two.

Oh and JT could be an all star if he keeps it up. In the west the only PF with a higher per is Dirk. And small forwards with higher per are Melo and Durant.

Where are you national TV games !!!
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#29
I think Kevin was taking more shots than usual for 2 reasons. One, he was actually healthy and had some lift on his shot. Two, we had mason and may in the starting lineup, and had to get offense from somewhere.

Before Kevin went out, tyreke and JT were still getting their shots, but not converting, or playing as well as they are now. I think if we had Noc and Spencer in the starting lineup along with Kevin, he wouldn't force things as much. Also, Tyreke didn't seem to know where to get Kevin, or anyone the ball the first few games, and Kevin had to create for himself. Each game Tyreke is getting better and finding teammates and getting them the ball where they can do something with it. Thats expected for a new pg on any team, and as it improves and Kevin comes back our offense will look more fluid. Kevin is one of the best at moving without the ball, and with JT's passing of late, and Tyreke getting a better understanding of where Kevin needs the ball when coming off screens, things will work out.

When Kevin comes back we still need him to be aggressive, but I don't see him getting up as many shots, but I see him getting better shots.
exactly... people seem to block out the fact that mason and may were starting.... we were playing 3 on 5 on offense... it has less to do with the tyreke/martin backcourt than it did with having our starting sf and c averaging 5 points a game... when martin comes back having beno come off the bench wont change anything because now that evans is a bit more comfortable scoring he can give martin a rest at the 2 when beno comes in and there wont be such a huge drop off in scoring. mason was horrible, may is horrible and oddly enough he hasnt played since martin went down...

i dont know why everyone wants to trade players when another player plays well.... unless of course youre talking about nocioni or beno being traded.