Kevin Martin Retuns Against Clippers

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#3
#3
See? I suggested a couple of weeks ago that the really clever thing for Kevin to do would be to sit out while we were collapsing, and then come back against a weak opponent. He comes back, we win, and Kevin gets the credit. VERY saavy. ;)

But much as my standard refrain has been that he should take as much time as he needs to get 100%, I do think its high time he gets back. Not only have we collapsed, but I think this lingering "sore ankle" business has dmagaed him in the eyes of the fans, maybe even the front office, and has likely cost him leadership credit on the team itself (not to mention helped cost his favorite coach his job). I see no reason to believe the injury hasn't been legit, but sometimes appearances are as important as actual facts. When the team is floundering without you and you can't point to anything more concrete than "sore ankle," it just doesn't look good, whatever the underlying health situation.


P.S. As an aside there was a headline this evening "Davis to Miss Game Against Sacramento," and I am thinking Baron is out and our chances of victory shoot up. Then you read the first paragraph, and its Ricky Davis. :eek:
 
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jon e

jon e

Bench
#7
#7
Spike said:
Want to back that up with a solid reason?
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solid reason for what? solid reason for increasing his worth for other teams? cos when hes playing, more clubs would want him than when hes sitting on the bench. and id personally rather have a scraper on the team who doesnt miss 22 games from a twisted ankle than kevin
 
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G_M

G_M

Starter
#9
#9
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RalphySampson

RalphySampson

G-League
#10
#10
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Gary

Gary

All-Star
#11
#11
jon e said:
solid reason for what? solid reason for increasing his worth for other teams? cos when hes playing, more clubs would want him than when hes sitting on the bench. and id personally rather have a scraper on the team who doesnt miss 22 games from a twisted ankle than kevin
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:rolleyes:
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#12
#12
I don't buy into this "perception" is reality argument about Kevin (I first heard put forth by Napear who made sure to not say that Kevin wasn't dogging it, so sure that you knew that Napear thought that he was). You can't concern yourself about perception of morons if you're Kevin. You just have to assess the ankle as best as you can, and play or not, accordingly. I just hope that the Boston Massacre didn't make him come back too early. I had a bad ankle once that took a year to heal; didn't really get to be 100% until two years later.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#13
#13
jon e said:
solid reason for what? solid reason for increasing his worth for other teams? cos when hes playing, more clubs would want him than when hes sitting on the bench. and id personally rather have a scraper on the team who doesnt miss 22 games from a twisted ankle than kevin
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It wasn't just a twisted ankle. It was a bone bruise with possible deep tissue damage. You might want to take the time to find out the facts, unless of course you just wanted to dump on Martin.

:rolleyes:
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#15
#15
kingsnation said:
Don't you know? Those aren't THAT painful ;)
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Especially when its happened to someone else. :p

Why anybody thinks Martin should have rushed back before it was well-healed is beyond me. Why? Because we're in a playoff push? Because we might have lost to the Celtics by only 30 instead? :rolleyes:

Too many players come back early and then the injury never really heals or heals badly and is a problem for the rest of their careers. I could understand risking that on a contending team, but not on this one. Kevin's good, but he wasn't going to turn this team into a contender.
 
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Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
#16
Kingster said:
I don't buy into this "perception" is reality argument about Kevin (I first heard put forth by Napear who made sure to not say that Kevin wasn't dogging it, so sure that you knew that Napear thought that he was). You can't concern yourself about perception of morons if you're Kevin.
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You always have to take it at least a little into account. I have been in the corner of him taking all the time he needs, but ignoring perception when the perception can undermine your standing with your bosses, coworkers, and fans, is just not reasonable. Especially not when you are the main guy in town. Then it begins to directly impact your standing as such. You would like the perception to be that you would run through molten lava for your team, leave everything out there on the floor, bleed for them. People will follow that. Fans will respond to it. Management will value it. Not important whether you actually would or not. You can't, or at least shouldn't, go out there and risk further injury over it, but you can't be pulling Pejas and missing time with boo boo'd pinkies either. Just looks bad. If its just a question of pain, and not of further injury, then your reputation and status becomes more important than short term physical discomfort.

Kevin would have done better having a broken leg or some such -- just sounds worse, and people take a lot longer to start questioning it.
 
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Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#17
#17
Bricklayer said:
You always have to take it at least a little into account. I have been in the corner of him taking all the time he needs, but ignoring perception when the perception can undermine your standing with your bosses, coworkers, and fans, is just not reasonable. Especially not when you are the main guy in town. Then it begins to directly impact your standing as such. You would like the perception to be that you would run through molten lava for your team, leave everything out there on the floor, bleed for them. People will follow that. Fans will respond to it. Management will value it. Not important whether you actually would or not. You can't, or at least shouldn't, go out there and risk further injury over it, but you can't be pulling Pejas and missing time with boo boo'd pinkies either. Just looks bad. If its just a question of pain, and not of further injury, then your reputation and status becomes more important than short term physical discomfort.

Kevin would have done better having a broken leg or some such -- just sounds worse, and people take a lot longer to start questioning it.
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Plus, people forget he did play with it and did make it worse. Then when he came back he clearly wasn't comfortable running around. It's not like he hurt it and didnt try to play.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#18
#18
Bricklayer said:
You always have to take it at least a little into account. I have been in the corner of him taking all the time he needs, but ignoring perception when the perception can undermine your standing with your bosses, coworkers, and fans, is just not reasonable. Especially not when you are the main guy in town. Then it begins to directly impact your standing as such. You would like the perception to be that you would run through molten lava for your team, leave everything out there on the floor, bleed for them. People will follow that. Fans will respond to it. Management will value it. Not important whether you actually would or not. You can't, or at least shouldn't, go out there and risk further injury over it, but you can't be pulling Pejas and missing time with boo boo'd pinkies either. Just looks bad. If its just a question of pain, and not of further injury, then your reputation and status becomes more important than short term physical discomfort.

Kevin would have done better having a broken leg or some such -- just sounds worse, and people take a lot longer to start questioning it.
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And yet, soft tissue injuries generally take much longer to heal and are trickier injuries.

Martin is clearly a hard worker. I don't really see him as soft or lazy. I might have questioned this more, if we were really in position to do something this season as a team. Otherwise I just think it's dumb to come back if it's not darn close to 100%. Sure fans wan it, but I have to think Martin knows how it feels and the docs know what's best.

Besides, as pointed out above, he did come back too early, took that nasty fall on it and just made it worse. Clearly should have sat longer the first time.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#19
#19
Bricklayer said:
You always have to take it at least a little into account. I have been in the corner of him taking all the time he needs, but ignoring perception when the perception can undermine your standing with your bosses, coworkers, and fans, is just not reasonable. Especially not when you are the main guy in town. Then it begins to directly impact your standing as such. You would like the perception to be that you would run through molten lava for your team, leave everything out there on the floor, bleed for them. People will follow that. Fans will respond to it. Management will value it. Not important whether you actually would or not. You can't, or at least shouldn't, go out there and risk further injury over it, but you can't be pulling Pejas and missing time with boo boo'd pinkies either. Just looks bad. If its just a question of pain, and not of further injury, then your reputation and status becomes more important than short term physical discomfort.

Kevin would have done better having a broken leg or some such -- just sounds worse, and people take a lot longer to start questioning it.
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That's the rub - is it just the pain, or is further injury being risked? Maybe nobody, including Kevin, really knows the answer to that. Another thing to consider when it comes to perception is how long this will pervade in the public memory. In this situation, in this terrible year, I really doubt that he loses many pr points. If, on the other hand, we were contesting for a playoff bid, or heaven forbid, in the playoffs, that would raise the stakes considerably. Lastly, I don't know how other people view it, but Garcia in my view came back too early, and his poor performance of late is obviously because he's hurting. Do people really want to see a mediocre performance from an above-average player because that player is hurt? I'll give humanity the benefit of the doubt, and say, probably not.
 
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