Keegan “KEEGAN MURRAY” Murray
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Lol, 3 man lineups. Better news is that Monk with the starters is actually a +39. Of course with players like Monk considering his 6th man role, things have to be taken with a grain of salt considering if the Kings start sinking with him he's like getting pushed to the bench and doesn't always watch those ratings climb back down. The SG position is the one that gets bounced around moment to moment which explains the variance with both Huerter and Monks numbers in those 5 mans. They are either really high or low depending on who they are on the floor with.
Brown has always been clear about where those things lie and he for sure likes having at least 3 players capable of attacking or running PG at the end. Huerter can't really do it. Again, Browns method does make sense to some degree. Monk is his safety valve/closer. Last year Monk with the starters was one of the only net negative rated 5 man units amongst the ones that got consistent time. Usage can effect that, defenses, etc. Not to mention adding DeRozan. I'm sure if Brown needs a change he'll make it.
On another site, a fan brought up the question whether playing the 4 instead of the 3 has hurt Murray's development and confidence? I have watched DeRozan every game and he does not play like a power forward. He plays like a small forward. That is Keegan's natural position. Is there too much overlap between their games? Has DeRozan, in essence, crowded Murray out on the offensive end?
A lot of questions, even after fifteen games.
A lot of questions, even after fifteen games.
Just reiterating what I said over the summer here: half the reason to go out and get DeRozan imo is so that Keegan can expand his offensive skillset to compliment the strong frame and good touch around the basket he came into the NBA with. If he wants to be a star in this league he'll need to be more than just a catch and shoot and cut to the basket guy -- he'll need to learn how to create shots in isolation, play into contact, and finish consistently in the mid-range. Those were the biggest weaknesses in his offensive game in his rookie/sophomore years and now he gets to watch one of the greatest to ever do it night in and night out and pick his brain for veteran tips on what works against NBA defenders.
Sure maybe in the short-term that means a smaller role for Keegan and apparent regression on the offensive end but the long-term payoff is well worth it. Some have suggested that this shows a lack of faith in Keegan to fill that role as 2nd / 3rd option. I think though when you look at teams who have sustained success developing players, they take their time building them up bit by bit rather than forcing them into roles that they aren't ready for. As for Keegan needing to adjust to the PF position, he's already shown that he can hold his own defensively against bigger forwards. Foul trouble is something he'll need to figure out. On offense, I don't think the PF and SF roles are all that different anymore. He's at least average as a post-up threat by 2024 NBA standards. And even though he's slumping right now, he's more than capable as a shooter when he gets rolling, which he will.
Sure maybe in the short-term that means a smaller role for Keegan and apparent regression on the offensive end but the long-term payoff is well worth it. Some have suggested that this shows a lack of faith in Keegan to fill that role as 2nd / 3rd option. I think though when you look at teams who have sustained success developing players, they take their time building them up bit by bit rather than forcing them into roles that they aren't ready for. As for Keegan needing to adjust to the PF position, he's already shown that he can hold his own defensively against bigger forwards. Foul trouble is something he'll need to figure out. On offense, I don't think the PF and SF roles are all that different anymore. He's at least average as a post-up threat by 2024 NBA standards. And even though he's slumping right now, he's more than capable as a shooter when he gets rolling, which he will.
Defensively he’s going to guard the opposing teams best player most nights. Steph, Luka, Lauri etc. I think we are all in agreement we need at least one more forward with size we can ask to take some of the load off his shoulders.
At some point we are going to have to turn part of our surplus of guards (Fox, Monk, Kev, Carter, Keon) into that kind of player. I’m confident Monte will find that guy I just don’t know if it will be at the deadline or in the offseason. It doesn’t seem like there will be a lot of sellers. If I had to guess it’s Washington (Kuz, Jonas) Portland (time lord, Thybulle) the Nets were supposed to sell but they are currently in the play in. I expect Charlotte and Milwaukee to eventually pass them so my guess is they trade DFS but keep Johnson unless they get a huge offer. Gotta find that guy or hope that Isaac Jones can expedite his development
At some point we are going to have to turn part of our surplus of guards (Fox, Monk, Kev, Carter, Keon) into that kind of player. I’m confident Monte will find that guy I just don’t know if it will be at the deadline or in the offseason. It doesn’t seem like there will be a lot of sellers. If I had to guess it’s Washington (Kuz, Jonas) Portland (time lord, Thybulle) the Nets were supposed to sell but they are currently in the play in. I expect Charlotte and Milwaukee to eventually pass them so my guess is they trade DFS but keep Johnson unless they get a huge offer. Gotta find that guy or hope that Isaac Jones can expedite his development
Fair to debate his status but trading him under his rookie deal while we are also hard capped this season under the DDR deal would be foolish. Best we could get would be a bunch of future draft picks, that probably won't be lottery picks, or a $20m per year type talent possibly thrown in if we include Huerter.
Worst case Keegan projects to be one of those guys. So you add nothing. Maybe in 2 years you can move on from an extended Keegan if you need to.
Worst case Keegan projects to be one of those guys. So you add nothing. Maybe in 2 years you can move on from an extended Keegan if you need to.
He's basically a stretch forward. Back in the day that was almost synonymous with the 4 position, but as the league has become more shooting based it really doesn't matter much. I think Murray being a positive as he's moved closer to the rim is pretty evident in rebounding alone. Also right now the Kings are definitely missing DeRozan, he's actually pretty pretty big and does OK against the stronger players.
Not until they see what Carter and Keegan look like together. The Kings on paper have as balanced an offensive/defensive unit as you can get sitting right there. If it doesn't pan out, it doesn't pan out. But trading Keegan for another mega talent/scorer does what exactly? If you trade Keegan it should be in a package with a Fox/Domas to either change the entire foundation of your team or to condense into more star power. If DeRozan wasn't this teams final "talent" piece, it ain't happening because that means Fox/Domas ain't enough. Plain and simple.
Well, "stretch" was usually a nice way of saying they only shot the ball and didn't do much else. Again, I think it all comes back to guard skills, you either have them or don't. Bird played like a big guard whereas someone like Robert Horry was there mostly for shooting although early in his career he did handle the rock a little more. Murray kind of reminds me of Horry in terms of his skills on both ends. Horry eventually transitioned to the 4 full time as well. I think early on in the season size has been far from an issue. The issue is obviously flawed defensive logic in defending the 3 point line and shooting woes.
This guy is either our best or second best defender, has already had an entire season where he shot 40% from deep, is now grabbing 8 boards a game and coming up with huge momentum swinging defensive plays in crunch time and has started to show improvement as an iso scorer. I forget which game it was (maybe Minnesota?) but he had a block and a steal right at the end of the 4th and he had a very impressive take where he drove from the top of the key past two defenders and just rimmed out a layup that was nearly the shot of the night...
Which is to say, any Kings fan going on social media to throw darts at Keegan right now needs to have their head examined. Without him this team is all bigs and guards and other than Sabonis the bigs aren't that good. You can drop 10 wins off our projected record if we trade Keegan right now. Even on nights where he's not making shots he's been one of the most impactful players on the team. People look for scapegoats when we lose... I get that... But maybe don't point fingers at the guy who's working his behind off on defense every second that he's on the floor for night after night and second on the team in minutes played after Fox.
Which is to say, any Kings fan going on social media to throw darts at Keegan right now needs to have their head examined. Without him this team is all bigs and guards and other than Sabonis the bigs aren't that good. You can drop 10 wins off our projected record if we trade Keegan right now. Even on nights where he's not making shots he's been one of the most impactful players on the team. People look for scapegoats when we lose... I get that... But maybe don't point fingers at the guy who's working his behind off on defense every second that he's on the floor for night after night and second on the team in minutes played after Fox.
