Keegan “KEEGAN MURRAY” Murray

joemama said:
He was set on most of his shots originally. He is turning, fading, and not setting his feet now.
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You may be right, I'll admit I don't pay that much attention to shooting mechanics. My memory of rookie-year Keegan though is that he shot a lot of movement threes where we was inevitably turning and fading away to one side or the other has he rose up to shoot and he's had that one foot in front of the other stance and slightly flat shooting arc since college.

Maybe it's because I've seen so many guys with perfect shooting mechanics fail to capitalize on them at the NBA level (Ben McLemore and Jimmer Fredette spring to mind) but I'm inclined to say that a player who has already shot 41% on 500 three point attempts over the course of a season should keep doing whatever they're already doing. By trying to "fix" things you may just force that player to overthink their mechanics and actually make their shooting worse.
 
hrdboild said:
You may be right, I'll admit I don't pay that much attention to shooting mechanics. My memory of rookie-year Keegan though is that he shot a lot of movement threes where we was inevitably turning and fading away to one side or the other has he rose up to shoot and he's had that one foot in front of the other stance and slightly flat shooting arc since college.

Maybe it's because I've seen so many guys with perfect shooting mechanics fail to capitalize on them at the NBA level (Ben McLemore and Jimmer Fredette spring to mind) but I'm inclined to say that a player who has already shot 41% on 500 three point attempts over the course of a season should keep doing whatever they're already doing. By trying to "fix" things you may just force that player to overthink their mechanics and actually make their shooting worse.
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I think a few things for Keegan might be:

1. Added defensive responsibility. Playing PoA defender the way he did last year, often vs much smaller guards, requires a different level of conditioning and legs. We pretty much hid him as much as possible on D his rookie year.

2. Added offensive responsibility. His rookie season offense was very simple. Catch and shoot and movement 3s off the DHO. Now, we're asking him to create off his own bounce far more and I think you see some of that processing when he gets the ball. Instead of just letting that thing fly, you almost see that split second hesitation of "should I attack? Or..." and by then it's too late.

That last possession vs Utah was a great example. Fox hit him wide open for a step on 3, he hesitated thinking about a dribble move, and lost the space. First and foremost for him, especially with DDR aboard, is he's got to be ready to let that thing fly. I want him top 5 in 3PA this year is the NBA
 
hrdboild said:
You may be right, I'll admit I don't pay that much attention to shooting mechanics. My memory of rookie-year Keegan though is that he shot a lot of movement threes where we was inevitably turning and fading away to one side or the other has he rose up to shoot and he's had that one foot in front of the other stance and slightly flat shooting arc since college.
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Here is what Murray looked like in his rookie season:


And that's what I want him to look like now. Notice how, as the ball slows down in its descent, the angle approaching the basket is only about 20-30 degrees off vertical.
 
Keegan had 30 games with 1 or less made threes in a game last year. More than 1/3 of his games played he was a non factor from deep. For comparison MPJ had 14 such games. That is my biggest concern for Keegan and his development. You can’t have 30 games going 1-5 or something similar and be an elite shooter. He has the size and the stroke to be that guy but this has to be figured out.
 
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iowamcnabb said:
Keegan had 30 games with 1 or less made threes in a game last year. More than 1/3 of his games played he was a non factor from deep. For comparison MPJ had 14 such games. That is my biggest concern for Keegan and his development. You can’t have 30 games going 1-5 or something similar and be an elite shooter. He has the size and the stroke to be that guy but this has to be figured out.
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Think this goes back to him just being confident enough to keep shooting, even if he starts 1-6. He was better about it last season, but still went way too passive at times and faded if he didn't have a good start.
 
Part of it is most certainly teams playing that DHO differently. Looking at Keegans stats against teams like the Pels and it's no surprise. They drive into it, shut it down, and force the ball out of his hands. The spot shooting is where he needs to start getting comfortable. Maybe even be less involved movement wise. Not every player let alone 6'8" players are Ray Allen.
 
NewArena said:
Yea you simply don’t have the type of rookie year or 11 made threes in a row outburst without the ability and potential to be lethal 24/7. He’s got all the tools and i think we just need a lil more patience
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And Keegans shot is pretty much tied to the offense for the most part. In years past Keegan and Huerter not hitting shots, or not even getting clean looks on the DHO is likely synonymous with the system being figured out as opposed to their shooting ability being diminished. The thing is right now Keegan isn't really a player that's going to create a bunch of 3's facing down the defense. He's shown a step back but that's not been much of his game up to this point. Last season Keegan shot a whopping 1 pull up 3 on average per game and shot them at a 26% clip. More post play from Domas and DeRozan with Keegan spotting up on the weakside is something that can help.
 
SacTownKid said:
And Keegans shot is pretty much tied to the offense for the most part. In years past Keegan and Huerter not hitting shots, or not even getting clean looks on the DHO is likely synonymous with the system being figured out as opposed to their shooting ability being diminished. The thing is right now Keegan isn't really a player that's going to create a bunch of 3's facing down the defense. He's shown a step back but that's not been much of his game up to this point. Last season Keegan shot a whopping 1 pull up 3 on average per game and shot them at a 26% clip. More post play from Domas and DeRozan with Keegan spotting up on the weakside is something that can help.
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I’d say guys like MPJ are just getting their shots out of the offense too and not
ISOing their way into one.

One thing I’d be curious in trying is identifying his highest percent spot and then getting his early shots there. Most of the time (not always) if he makes one of his first 2 threes he shoots well. If he misses his first two he is usually on his way to a poor shooting night.
 
Keegan is going to have to learn to launch the threes quick and often this year. With 3 of the starters largely playing in the post and mid-range, he can't hesitate to launch threes like he did at times last year. If you have a window to shoot, shoot! He will need to shoot well in order for the offense to work. Ellis will also have to shoot well or Red Velvet may have to come back into the starting lineup, even with the drop in defensive production that it would ensue. Both guys will have to be 38% or so from three or higher for all this to work and keep defenses honest against us. Fox will also have to continue to maintain/improve his 3 shot as well, he has to be at least respectable from distance.

There is an area where we could be potentially brilliant on offense if you squint and things go well. There are also plenty of areas where we could struggle. It remains to be seen how the team develops offensively. Adding a big cog like DeRozan changes things up and now everyone has to figure out how he fits into the scheme. It will take a while. I anticipate some rough nights early while the main guys continue to gel with him.
 
Sac.Kings said:
Keegan is going to have to learn to launch the threes quick and often this year. With 3 of the starters largely playing in the post and mid-range, he can't hesitate to launch threes like he did at times last year. If you have a window to shoot, shoot!
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Right on. The three is probably the best shot he's going to get. The drive is the counter and not his primary weapon. He needs to realize that there are like 5 players in the world that can block his shot from his release point. He needs to get his feet set, have his hands up and be ready to pull the trigger if he sees daylight when he gets the ball.
 
While he hasn’t shot well the last 2 games, I think one impressive part of the 2 wins is that Keegan completely stifled the top scoring options in Grant and Lauri.

Granted, Lauri only played 1 half, but I think only 3 of his points were while Keegan was defending him. Maybe it was 5. I just remember the tough contested 3 he hit and can’t remember the others.

I’d have to go back and watch but I think only 2 of Grants 7 points were against Keegan as well. Regardless, Grant was a non-factor.

I hope he finds his confidence and aggression he had in game 1 offensively. It’s there.
 
Srzly said:
While he hasn’t shot well the last 2 games, I think one impressive part of the 2 wins is that Keegan completely stifled the top scoring options in Grant and Lauri.

Granted, Lauri only played 1 half, but I think only 3 of his points were while Keegan was defending him. Maybe it was 5. I just remember the tough contested 3 he hit and can’t remember the others.

I’d have to go back and watch but I think only 2 of Grants 7 points were against Keegan as well. Regardless, Grant was a non-factor.

I hope he finds his confidence and aggression he had in game 1 offensively. It’s there.
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he also has had some tap outs for rebounds that were big. 2-7 isn’t ideal from 3 but imo I just want to see him make at least 2 threes almost every game. I pointed it out earlier in this thread but he had 30 games with one or less makes last season. If he can cash 2 or more for 85 percent of games I’m good
 
Srzly said:
While he hasn’t shot well the last 2 games, I think one impressive part of the 2 wins is that Keegan completely stifled the top scoring options in Grant and Lauri.

Granted, Lauri only played 1 half, but I think only 3 of his points were while Keegan was defending him. Maybe it was 5. I just remember the tough contested 3 he hit and can’t remember the others.

I’d have to go back and watch but I think only 2 of Grants 7 points were against Keegan as well. Regardless, Grant was a non-factor.

I hope he finds his confidence and aggression he had in game 1 offensively. It’s there.
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Right now it's looking like a 10 and 10 Keegan has more value than a 20 and 5 Keegan needs wise. With DeRozan, Keegan doesn't need to be anything other than what he is right now. With better 3 point efficiency of course. There will be games where he explodes but Keegan is still a player whose scoring is largely dependent on the defense and situation. He can be productive but if a team attacks his dribble, he'll likely still stall out if they are expecting him to routinely face guys up. The Blazers did a lot of that. That's why it's nice to see that little two dribble drive then spin into a fadeaway get used a little more. Right now however he's trending about the same as he's been with most of his shots coming from 3 when you compare distances with others creating them for him. 3 and D is perfect for him.
 
SacTownKid said:
Right now it's looking like a 10 and 10 Keegan has more value than a 20 and 5 Keegan needs wise. With DeRozan, Keegan doesn't need to be anything other than what he is right now. With better 3 point efficiency of course. There will be games where he explodes but Keegan is still a player whose scoring is largely dependent on the defense and situation. He can be productive but if a team attacks his dribble, he'll likely still stall out if they are expecting him to routinely face guys up. The Blazers did a lot of that. That's why it's nice to see that little two dribble drive then spin into a fadeaway get used a little more. Right now however he's trending about the same as he's been with most of his shots coming from 3 when you compare distances with others creating them for him. 3 and D is perfect for him.
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He did have a post up that looked great.
 
I would hope that being a #4 pick in the draft he would be averaging close to 20 instead of around 14 points per game. I get it that we now have our top 3 go to guys and that regulates him to spot up shots and scoring opportunity’s that happen to come up.

but I hope he is capable of bigger things and the kings aren’t holding him back.
 
Does anyone have the Athletic? I’m having log in issues but I got a notification that was titled “Why Keegan Murray is a name to watch , NBA Trade intel” or something like that.

They aren’t really known for hot takes so what’s going on? Just speculation?
 
iowamcnabb said:
Does anyone have the Athletic? I’m having log in issues but I got a notification that was titled “Why Keegan Murray is a name to watch , NBA Trade intel” or something like that.

They aren’t really known for hot takes so what’s going on? Just speculation?
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It wouldn't completely shock me, if they took their big swing for championship contention with Murray included in a trade. He's likely the most desired player on the roster. A move all the chips in type of move
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
It wouldn't completely shock me, if they took their big swing for championship contention with Murray included in a trade. He's likely the most desired player on the roster. A move all the chips in type of move
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If they do the Kings better make darn sure that they are already in that contenders window. The issue for the Kings moving Keegan is the same one with Huerter right now. If Keegan is playing to the level he'd have to even be considered a top notch trade piece, do you trade him and a boatload of picks in the first place? If Keegans role and numbers stay about the same as they are now and have been since coming into the league, it's very unlikely you don't see a bit of a year 3 decline in value. It's just the way it goes because it looks like they've reached their ceiling. At 3 years in teams are going to have a pretty well formed opinion at that point. Giannis is obviously the name to watch, but there is NO WAY there's not 4-5 other teams capable of putting a package together the Kings couldn't even get close to if he's out there. Other than him there's really no other name that would even register at this point IMO.
 
iowamcnabb said:
Does anyone have the Athletic? I’m having log in issues but I got a notification that was titled “Why Keegan Murray is a name to watch , NBA Trade intel” or something like that.

They aren’t really known for hot takes so what’s going on? Just speculation?
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The article is an Amick/Hollinger byline. Fair use should allow the inclusion of the following:

But Murray is the only young player in the Kings’ employ who can change the course of a trade conversation, meaning he will likely be requested every time they are discussing the prospect of landing a player of any repute. As is the case with every other player on this list, the truth is that this season could change the internal calculus regarding their uncertain future.
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There's nothing substantial, just the idea that Keegan is our best trade asset, and this season might determine if he's here long term or traded to go all in.
 
SacTownKid said:
If they do the Kings better make darn sure that they are already in that contenders window. The issue for the Kings moving Keegan is the same one with Huerter right now. If Keegan is playing to the level he'd have to even be considered a top notch trade piece, do you trade him and a boatload of picks in the first place? If Keegans role and numbers stay about the same as they are now and have been since coming into the league, it's very unlikely you don't see a bit of a year 3 decline in value. It's just the way it goes because it looks like they've reached their ceiling. At 3 years in teams are going to have a pretty well formed opinion at that point. Giannis is obviously the name to watch, but there is NO WAY there's not 4-5 other teams capable of putting a package together the Kings couldn't even get close to if he's out there. Other than him there's really no other name that would even register at this point IMO.
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Looking at the other lead players, you have Fox, Sabonis, and Monk in their prime and likely assumed to be near their peak, along with DeRozan still producing at an all star scorer level.

I think the Kings will try to make a significant trade this season. Will it be a Heurter trade, or something bigger? They went hard after Siakam before the last dead-line.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
The article is an Amick/Hollinger byline. Fair use should allow the inclusion of the following:

There's nothing substantial, just the idea that Keegan is our best trade asset, and this season might determine if he's here long term or traded to go all in.
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I got the impression via twitterX that this was like "if Giannis becomes available you move Keegan" and I don't know how I feel about that given Giannis is probably a one year rental if you do that.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Looking at the other lead players, you have Fox, Sabonis, and Monk in their prime and likely assumed to be near their peak, along with DeRozan still producing at an all star scorer level.

I think the Kings will try to make a significant trade this season. Will it be a Heurter trade, or something bigger? They went hard after Siakam before the last dead-line.
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Yeah, but that was before DeRozan. It looks like they made that move to me. Fox, Sabonis, Monk, DDR, and another max player is probably so far over the board financially it's just not feasible.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I got the impression via twitterX that this was like "if Giannis becomes available you move Keegan" and I don't know how I feel about that given Giannis is probably a one year rental if you do that.
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If the Kings are already at like a 60 win pace, eh, maybe you do it, but other than that yeah, just ride it out. Too risky. The Keegan we've seen so far isn't netting Giannis without also sending out your entire future of picks with him. Even then, probably ain't getting it done considering the bidding war there would be.
 
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