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jdbraver
Guest
Yah tough decision. Bmac may exceed dragic one day but if we want to win now we make the move. Although we would need another 2 guard. I'm not as positive dragic will re-sign
JT wants to get traded (and other trade discussion)
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Iced Espresso
Starter
We are trying to work with what we have. We have too much clutter, too many holes, and gambling with a cheap longterm potential fit here who is an athletic stud and a kid still is not the right thing to do.
We still have to figure out the Thompson/Landry situation.
We do have some money to fish with the Williams expiring, + Gay pay decrease
We could trade Sessions for a simple expiring, and Thompson for something worse back but cheaper.
There is a time to swing for the fences, I don't feel like it is that time, I'd rather look at where we end up in the draft, consider deals that day, play around with our spending money later.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Ok lets talk about reaching. WOJO is reporting the GD WANTS to goto LA or NY, that his bird rights are likely to cost a resign of 20 mill a year on a 100 mill 5 year deal HE wants.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/source...s-preferred-trade-destinations-040017423.html
Meanwhile Karl, has stated repeatedly that he would like to bring in Wallberg as the offensive guru... you tell me what is most likely to occure based on what reliable sources are saying?
Now if you want me to pretend that Dragic is likely to stay and that Karal will essentially run guard heavy offense with lots of perimeter play like Pheonix... well my answers are likely to be different.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/source...s-preferred-trade-destinations-040017423.html
Meanwhile Karl, has stated repeatedly that he would like to bring in Wallberg as the offensive guru... you tell me what is most likely to occure based on what reliable sources are saying?
Now if you want me to pretend that Dragic is likely to stay and that Karal will essentially run guard heavy offense with lots of perimeter play like Pheonix... well my answers are likely to be different.
Jerichoholic
Bench
This all comes down to the type of offense and defense that George Karl wants to run, just having skilled players doesn't mean they fit. Certain players will excel in one style and then completely flop in another style, that's why statistics only tell part of the story.
Now if are in fact going to run a type of Dribble Drive Offense then I would be leery of trading McLemore because of his speed, athleticism, and growth in shooting the 3-point shot. Understand that this offense is not dependent on the players being overall good ball handlers, it is more like having the burst drive ability, keeping it under control in quick and singular movements. Not a lot of improvising has to occur in terms of the ball handling, just the scoring and passing. McLemore can do this and do it well, we just haven't had the chance to see it much under the last couple of coaches we've had, if anyone can put him in the best place to succeed it is Karl.
Now I think Afflalo can excel in this offense as well, but there are concerns. He has a larger contract if he decides to stay and he also the choice to opt out, both of which are problems. Also his play has dropped significantly this year, is it a fluke? Is it the new coach and new offense? Probably, but who really knows. My point being is that it's not like Afflalo is a completely known quality while McLemore isn't, there are questions about both. If we lost them both in the offseason that would be truly devastating.
Finally with Dragic, we won't be trading for him, don't have the assets so it comes down to signing him in the offseason. I think he could do well in this offense too, but the problem is it sounds like he wants to be the man. He got a taste of it last year when Bledsoe got hurt and now that he's healthy along with adding Thomas and Green he is far away from the good times and that's why he won't be coming back. The thing is when he talks about being like Curry what he's saying is that he wants the ball all of the time. Curry isn't truly a point guard, he is the superstar, that's why he always has the ball. Curry has the skills to be that superstar, does Dragic? Also he needs an offense that allows him to try, do we have that? I remember last year we had Thomas, a player who also always wanted the ball and wanted to be a superstar, that didn't seem to work so well. Now I do think that Dragic is much more talented than Thomas, but with Cousins and Gay here I don't think that type of player will really fit.
Now if are in fact going to run a type of Dribble Drive Offense then I would be leery of trading McLemore because of his speed, athleticism, and growth in shooting the 3-point shot. Understand that this offense is not dependent on the players being overall good ball handlers, it is more like having the burst drive ability, keeping it under control in quick and singular movements. Not a lot of improvising has to occur in terms of the ball handling, just the scoring and passing. McLemore can do this and do it well, we just haven't had the chance to see it much under the last couple of coaches we've had, if anyone can put him in the best place to succeed it is Karl.
Now I think Afflalo can excel in this offense as well, but there are concerns. He has a larger contract if he decides to stay and he also the choice to opt out, both of which are problems. Also his play has dropped significantly this year, is it a fluke? Is it the new coach and new offense? Probably, but who really knows. My point being is that it's not like Afflalo is a completely known quality while McLemore isn't, there are questions about both. If we lost them both in the offseason that would be truly devastating.
Finally with Dragic, we won't be trading for him, don't have the assets so it comes down to signing him in the offseason. I think he could do well in this offense too, but the problem is it sounds like he wants to be the man. He got a taste of it last year when Bledsoe got hurt and now that he's healthy along with adding Thomas and Green he is far away from the good times and that's why he won't be coming back. The thing is when he talks about being like Curry what he's saying is that he wants the ball all of the time. Curry isn't truly a point guard, he is the superstar, that's why he always has the ball. Curry has the skills to be that superstar, does Dragic? Also he needs an offense that allows him to try, do we have that? I remember last year we had Thomas, a player who also always wanted the ball and wanted to be a superstar, that didn't seem to work so well. Now I do think that Dragic is much more talented than Thomas, but with Cousins and Gay here I don't think that type of player will really fit.
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GQ_Gabriel
Guest
I think your guys' answers are all similar in a sense that they are based on the belief that Goran Dragic will NOT re-sign here over the summer. If you're looking at this situation with the perspective that we are "Renting" Dragic for 30 games, of course, it wouldn't be worth losing Ben McLemore. I do not share that belief or sentiment, however.
It really depends on whether you're looking at our situation in a pessimistic / optimistic manner.
It really depends on whether you're looking at our situation in a pessimistic / optimistic manner.
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GQ_Gabriel
Guest
I'm hoping the Kings don't keep their pick. I'm hoping the Kings win the majority of the upcoming games this season and carry that momentum into next year. That, in my opinion, is more valuable to this team's state than rolling the dice once again on another lottery pick.
Gary
All-Star
Dragic's stats mean more than Collison's. Dragic makes others around him better while Collison does not (as much). Put Dragic in the starting lineup and we have a .500 team minimum. Look what he's doing for PHX when he controls the offense there. He's much better for a team than what the stats show.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
I am with you on this, infact depending on what Karal wants to do, the big problems are not in the starting 5 anyway. Sure you take a solid upgrade but the real problem is our dismal bench.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Let's not get carried away here. Dragic is a solid player but he's not an All-NBA guy. Rather, he's a third tier point guard (two tiers below superstar <Steph Curry, John Wall, Chris Paul> and one below all-star <Westbrook, Lillard, Lowry, Irving.>). Were I to list guys of comparable worth to him in the overall point guard hierarchy, he'd probably be lumped in with Mike Conley, Jeff Teague, present day Derrick Rose, present day Rajon Rondo, and ironically Eric Bledsoe. Excellent and above-average players but not quite stars (yet or anymore in some cases) that you'd build your team around.
However, in the current landscape of the NBA, most of those third tier guys get paid like they're first tier players, especially if, like Dragic desires, they hit the open market.
So really then, it comes down to the question of whether you see McLemore ever managing to reach a similar tier for his position (though given the state of the modern NBA shooting guard, that really isn't the accomplishment it once was) or even surpassing it. McLemore is young enough and has shown enough flashes and still has several years of team control at a reasonable price that it's not entirely out of the question that he could do it for the Sacramento Kings.
Does that mean that I balk at a Goran Dragic trade call that involves Ben McLemore? No. But I certainly have to think (whereas if it were a Nik for Noel trade, I agree to the move before the Sixers front office has a chance to reconsider).
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Curse you and your darned reasoned responses based in facts. This is about BELIEF!
Gary
All-Star
He comes to Sac as the starting PG. Collison would be off the bench.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
This is about trade thread moral victories, goddammit!
Someone please explain to me the benefit for trading one of our best young prospects for 30 games with Goran Dragic...
Is it just the hope that our front office and coaching staff get a head start in recruiting him this summer? I really hate the sound of that. The risk of losing Ben just for Dragic to sign somewhere else next year is absolutely not worth it. Let another team make that mistake, shed some salary and make a bid in the offseason for him, if he takes it he takes it. If playing with the most dominate big man, a future HOF coach in a state of the art stadium filled with passionate fans is not what hes looking for... well then **** him. "I want winners!"
Is it just the hope that our front office and coaching staff get a head start in recruiting him this summer? I really hate the sound of that. The risk of losing Ben just for Dragic to sign somewhere else next year is absolutely not worth it. Let another team make that mistake, shed some salary and make a bid in the offseason for him, if he takes it he takes it. If playing with the most dominate big man, a future HOF coach in a state of the art stadium filled with passionate fans is not what hes looking for... well then **** him. "I want winners!"
Iced Espresso
Starter
Let's say we end up with the 9th pick for example.
A package of number 9 + Nik could pay a great yield on draft day after we select to get around that obligation to Chicago.
Maybe Chicago likes what is at 9. So we move Thompson or Landry + Nik perhaps for the return of our pick and grab Gibson, ending that clutter situation for good.
Maybe we get lucky and land top 3, so there is no need to of invested in a veteran before then, or of wasted a prospect.
Maybe Denver decides to scrap things, other people on the radar.
A whole lot can happen just in the NBA community, and we'll have some money to play around then.
Iced Espresso
Starter
I just don't see the can't miss trade today. So I'd rather be patient for now.
Our toughest choice should be do we want to move Thompson for something worse but cheaper and leave it at that.
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GQ_Gabriel
Guest
Goran Dragic made the All-NBA 3rd Team Last year, and should have made the all-star team. He averaged 20 points and 6 assists on 50% FG and 40% from three point range while leading the Suns, who drastically overachieved, to nearly 50 wins. He's not a super star, but he's a superbly talented player. In terms of talent, Ben McLemore has a completely different set of skills. I'm nobody to say that Ben won't become an all-star someday, but I'll take my chances in saying that he won't.
I hate to lose McLemore, all I'm saying is that if he's the only thing standing between us and acquiring Goran Dragic...
parker
Bench
...for 30 games (most likely)...
There's the rub and why it doesn't make sense in my opinion.
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GQ_Gabriel
Guest
There are too many "maybe's" with this logic around things that we literally have no control over.
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GQ_Gabriel
Guest
I believe this organization will re-sign Dragic if indeed he is obtained. PDA, as another poster previously mentioned, would not pull the trigger without an agreement or at least a firm belief that he would re-sign with us.
Jerichoholic
Bench
Exactly! I know it all comes down to opinions, but it feels to me as if a lot of people are overvaluing Dragic and undervaluing McLemore. Dragic is a good player, but I agree that he is in that third tier of point guards and he really hasn't accomplished all that much. Now he wants to go to a big market, get paid the maximum, and be the featured player that always has the ball. I like the ambition, but I'm not sure that attitude is one that would be good here, feels a little entitled to me. Regardless, even if he came here right now and we won most of our next games, I still don't think he stays, just my opinion.
With McLemore I think the growth has been huge from last year to this one. Just about everything in his game has improved. As a rookie last year he had to fight for minutes and shots with guys like Thomas and Thornton. This year before the Malone firing he was playing great on both ends of the floor. Offensively he was shooting over 40 percent on 3-pointers and defensively he was locking guys down. Now after Malone left everything has regressed, but he isn't the only one, that can be said for just about every player on the team.
Even trading Stauskas at this point is a concern. Good teams buy low and sell high, this is a time to trade for players like Stauskas. Maybe call the Bulls and ask for the availability on some of their young players who aren't playing much. Here is the thing, over the last five years or so when the one and done drafting became popular, if you were to make a list of the top 10 players from those drafts right after the rookie season and then made the same list after the second season, you would see that the second list is far different from the first list. Players need time, especially these younger guys.
With McLemore I think the growth has been huge from last year to this one. Just about everything in his game has improved. As a rookie last year he had to fight for minutes and shots with guys like Thomas and Thornton. This year before the Malone firing he was playing great on both ends of the floor. Offensively he was shooting over 40 percent on 3-pointers and defensively he was locking guys down. Now after Malone left everything has regressed, but he isn't the only one, that can be said for just about every player on the team.
Even trading Stauskas at this point is a concern. Good teams buy low and sell high, this is a time to trade for players like Stauskas. Maybe call the Bulls and ask for the availability on some of their young players who aren't playing much. Here is the thing, over the last five years or so when the one and done drafting became popular, if you were to make a list of the top 10 players from those drafts right after the rookie season and then made the same list after the second season, you would see that the second list is far different from the first list. Players need time, especially these younger guys.
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GQ_Gabriel
Guest
Yeah the more I think about it...
I'm not ready to give up on this "3 and D" kid just yet.
Give Coach Karl a year with him and we will be laughing at the idea of trading him for Dragic.
GS: 94
SAC: 80
Oh, but I forgot, look, Ben's flashy dunk.
Chubbs
Starter
As a free agent?
I'm getting confused. Trading Ben for Dragic for 30 games, when he likely has no interest in being here, makes no sense. We certainly aren't on his list of teams right now. He wants a team without a pg already.
And we don't have the money to sign him as a FA, assuming he would even agree to talk to us, which seems a HUGE long shot, unless no one else is interested. But even then, we have a pg already, a situation he is fleeing from.
Why rent him for 30 games when the playoffs aren't possible anyway?
Has this team once in 30 years ever signed an all NBA player not already on the team?
If we're so confident we can sign Dragic, why on earth would you trade another starter for him now? If you trade Ben, who plays SG?
Doesn't make much sense for Dragic or us.
I await news of the trade.
I'm reminded why I avoid the personnel section of this board. I wouldn't be reading this if this topic was where it probably should be.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Actually no there is not, being castrated like the Thompson/Landry situation or wasting our youth and having the fella move on is much worse.
I'm trying to build the puzzle, you're trying to toss some dice.
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GQ_Gabriel
Guest
This organization has been building a 1,000 piece puzzle for years now. We want to win now and we want to be competitive. We want a product that reflects the efforts of these fans who kept this team here, we want success. If that mean's we need to roll a dice in roder to obtain a player like Dragic, so be it.
Iced Espresso
Starter
You assume he stays.
You're rolling for boxcars. Sure 30-1 is spectacular but the mathematical odds are worse.
And the FO chose to bring in Landry, that's a chore to get over.
I think we are closer to getting somewhere perhaps than you do.
I think thrifty and wise investments to fill out our bench would do wonders, I am willing to accept some heartache dealing Thompson for something worse but a little saving to invest later would help long term.
GS: 94
SAC: 80
Oh, but I forgot, look, Ben's flashy dunk.
That wasn't just some fast break dunk. That was a flash of MJ.
That was Ben attacking the rim in a half court set offense against the best defense in the league right in the middle of the massive **** up your boss created with this team.
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GQ_Gabriel
Guest
Reggie Jackson has also just requested a trade, via RealGM.
I would much rather have the Dragon.
#GetItDone
I would much rather have the Dragon.
#GetItDone
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