JT wants to get traded (and other trade discussion)

Iced Espresso said:
Without assurances he stays?

Seems like a poor wager to me.
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Glass half full, I'm positive the Kings can get him to stay. They're reportedly willing to throw him the money he wants.

These are the risks you take when you're a small market such as Sacramento. You don't pass this opportunity up if it presents itself, regardless of what "might" happen in the off-season. So many things can happen or go wrong. Ben McLemore is not a good enough basketball player to be the determining factor in that decision. Gotta' give to get in this league.
 
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This is the same mistake every rookie GM makes. You want to push your young team over the hump so you go out and acquire every 28 and 29 year old one-time All Star you can get your hands on and you trade all your young players and a few future picks to do it. Oddly other GMs seem all too willing to let you do it, but that's okay because you know Afflalo is a stud and Dragic is one of the NBA's best kept secrets and your team of mercenaries is going to take the league by storm next season and the fans won't even remember what a draft pick is.

Can I come back and say "I told you so" when Dragic cracks the "top 10 worst contracts in the NBA" list in 2 years and Afflalo is a bit player on a team which loses in the first round?
 
Iced Espresso said:
Without assurances he stays?

Seems like a poor wager to me.
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I think Pete has shown a knack for getting guys to stay though - i.e. Rudy Gay. If we make Goran feel wanted enough, put up the right kind of billboards and crap - all that glory stuff that IT craved so much... and we pay him more than any other team - why wouldn't he stay? Is he a party animal/playboy? And even if he is, heck CWebb stayed for the right basketball situation - maybe Goran would too.

Would be juicy irony if Goran said "I felt wanted in Sac so I signed there" while IT is saying "I felt wanted in Phoenix so I signed there". If it goes down like that - we win... for 'wanting' the better guy lol.
 
hrdboild said:
This is the same mistake every rookie GM makes. You want to push your young team over the hump so you go out and acquire every 28 and 29 year old one-time All Star you can get your hands on and you trade all your young players and a few future picks to do it. Oddly other GMs seem all too willing to let you do it, but that's okay because you know Afflalo is a stud and Dragic is one of the NBA's best kept secrets and your team of mercenaries is going to take the league by storm next season and the fans won't even remember what a draft pick is.

Can I come back and say "I told you so" when Dragic cracks the "top 10 worst contracts in the NBA" list in 2 years and Afflalo is a bit player on a team which loses in the first round?
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You will definitely win the award for biggest pessimist :D
 
GQ_Gabriel said:
As much as I would hate to lose Ben McLemore, whom has a bright future in this league, that's what it would take to obtain Dragic, in my opinion. It would hurt to let him go, but ultimately it's a trade you make. Dragic is just an absolute stud.
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Uh... no. McLemore has shown he has the ability to play hard nosed defense, and can penetrate with the best{Edit: to be fair I should have said attack the hoop}. Most importantly his learning/improvement curve is very steep and not topped out yet. So you would trade him for what essentially amounts to a one year rental (for a season already shot to crap) on a guy who is talking max contracts and destinations like LA and NY who both will be throwing money at their problems this off season? If some how we kept Dragic he is competent at defense but no stud on the other side of the ball, hits a similar percentage of 3s to Ben and averages 4 assists. More to the point if Karl really is planing on bringing in Walberg to install his attack offense who would you rather see penetrating the paint with or more importantly without the ball, Goran or Ben? Sorry for this team at this time Goran is fools gold.
 
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John Galt said:
I think Pete has shown a knack for getting guys to stay though - i.e. Rudy Gay. If we make Goran feel wanted enough, put up the right kind of billboards and crap - all that glory stuff that IT craved so much... and we pay him more than any other team - why wouldn't he stay? Is he a party animal/playboy? And even if he is, heck CWebb stayed for the right basketball situation - maybe Goran would too.

Would be juicy irony if Goran said "I felt wanted in Sac so I signed there" while IT is saying "I felt wanted in Phoenix so I signed there". If it goes down like that - we win... for 'wanting' the better guy lol.
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I don't feel the same way.

I see a young kid in McLemore that has the potential to be one of the best 3 and D guys around in a couple of years.

I see a gamble on a guy who would most likely take a considerable over pay to keep, or may walk regardless, or maybe even a place he wants to go will even match whatever offer we make.
 
HndsmCelt said:
Uh... no. McLemore has shown he has the ability to play hard nosed defense, and can penetrate with the best. Most importantly his learning/improvement curve is very steep and not topped out yet. So you would trade him for what essentially amounts to a one year rental (for a season already shot to poopoo) on a guy who is talking max contracts and destinations like LA and NY who both will be throwing money at their problems this off season? If some how we kept Dragic he is competent at defense but no stud on the other side of the ball, hits a similar percentage of 3s to Ben and averages 4 assists. More to the point if Karl really is planing on bringing in Wallberg to install his attack offense who would you rather see penetrating the paint with or more importantly without the ball, Goran or Ben? Sorry for this team at this time Goran is fools gold.
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Ben McLemore? Can penetrate with the best? Um, alright. :confused:

He's a 3 and D guy, let's be honest here.

Ultimately, with the belief that this franchise can resign Dragic in the offseason, we end up with an ALL-NBA Point guard. The Kings appear to be willing to give him what he asks for. That's a risk well worth taking.
 
GQ_Gabriel said:
Ben McLemore? Can penetrate with the best? Um, alright.

He's a 3 and D guy, let's be honest here.

Ultimately, with the belief that this franchise can resign Dragic in the offseason, we end up with an ALL-NBA Point guard. The Kings appear to be willing to give him what he asks for. That's a risk well worth taking.
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I think what he meant is that the dribble-drive offense is about creating scoring opportunities by spacing the floor. If you have offensive threats like Cousins and Rudy and you can move the ball well enough to get the defense off balance and out of position, an athlete like Ben catching the ball with an open path to the basket is a lot more dangerous than Dragic in the same position. Ben has untapped potential that could really shine in a different offensive scheme. That's why so many of us were excited about him at the time of the draft. His skillset makes him the perfect complimentary wing in certain types of offensive schemes.
 
GQ_Gabriel said:
Ben McLemore? Can penetrate with the best? Um, alright.

He's a 3 and D guy, let's be honest here.

Ultimately, with the belief that this franchise can resign Dragic in the offseason, we end up with an ALL-NBA Point guard. The Kings appear to be willing to give him what he asks for. That's a risk well worth taking.
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You did note the the phrase without the ball... cutting to the hoop is a vital part of Wallbergs offense. If Goran is amiable to resigning with the Kings it makes the deal a MUCH better idea, but that is a HUGE IF.
 
GQ_Gabriel said:
Ben McLemore? Can penetrate with the best? Um, alright. :confused:

He's a 3 and D guy, let's be honest here.

Ultimately, with the belief that this franchise can resign Dragic in the offseason, we end up with an ALL-NBA Point guard. The Kings appear to be willing to give him what he asks for. That's a risk well worth taking.
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I'll meet you half way, on a fast break he is an excellent finisher at the rim sometimes, or on a backdoor cut with a lob.
 
GQ_Gabriel said:
Ben McLemore? Can penetrate with the best? Um, alright.

He's a 3 and D guy, let's be honest here.

Ultimately, with the belief that this franchise can resign Dragic in the offseason, we end up with an ALL-NBA Point guard. The Kings appear to be willing to give him what he asks for. That's a risk well worth taking.
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Um, you have the belief that this franchise can resign Dragic. Maybe yes and maybe no. You also defended this FO through thick and thin and they ended up having to cop to screwing up. How does his agent feel about the shenanigans from the FO in the recent past?
 
I still think some salary savings for next season may be a good idea if possible, every nickle counts.

Sessions is tradeable for an expiring. Thompson may be able to be moved for something making a little less next season, we won't like what we get back most likely. but we may be able to save 5 million or so moving Sessions and Thompson for a somewhat less capable guy with a cheaper deal next season + expiring.
 
hrdboild said:
I think what he meant is that the dribble-drive offense is about creating scoring opportunities by spacing the floor. If you have offensive threats like Cousins and Rudy and you can move the ball well enough to get the defense off balance and out of position, an athlete like Ben catching the ball with an open path to the basket is a lot more dangerous than Dragic in the same position. Ben has untapped potential that could really shine in a different offensive scheme. That's why so many of us were excited about him at the time of the draft. His skillset makes him the perfect complimentary wing in certain types of offensive schemes.
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Glad you see it too. We had some really quick kids at Fresno City when Wallberg was there and he made the most of their abilities.
 
HndsmCelt said:
You did note the the phrase without the ball... cutting to the hoop is a vital part of Wallbergs offense. If Goran is amiable to resigning with the Kings it makes the deal a MUCH better idea, but that is a HUGE IF.
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You didn't say without the ball.
"Uh... no. McLemore has shown he has the ability to play hard nosed defense, and can penetrate with the best. "

I think you should have stated "McLemore is better at cutting to the hoop." Lol.
 
John Galt said:
No question for me on that one. Goran. Ben will bounce it off his leg or clang a showtime dunk attempt off the iron. Goran will lay it in.
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Come on guys, haven't you ever heard of players getting better? Dragic averaged 4.5 points on 39% shooting in his age 22 season. Afflalo averaged 3.7 points on 41% shooting. Ben won't be 22 until next year.
 
John Galt said:
No question for me on that one. Goran. Ben will bounce it off his leg or clang a showtime dunk attempt off the iron. Goran will lay it in.
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You make some assumptions I don't share. I see Ben improving over time, and I don't assume Goran is NOT capable, just maybe not the best fit at the 2 for a dribble drive offense.
 
I doubt Ben will go anywhere. Cousins likes him and they already effed around plenty with Cousins emotions. If anything, Nik is by far the more likely one to get traded.
 
GQ_Gabriel said:
You didn't say without the ball.
"Uh... no. McLemore has shown he has the ability to play hard nosed defense, and can penetrate with the best. "

I think you should have stated "McLemore is better at cutting to the hoop." Lol.
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"More to the point if Karl really is planing on bringing in Wallberg to install his attack offense who would you rather see penetrating the paint with or more importantly without the ball, Goran or Ben?" That is the rhetorical question you responded to.
 
hrdboild said:
Come on guys, haven't you ever heard of players getting better? Dragic averaged 4.5 points on 39% shooting in his age 22 season. Afflalo averaged 3.7 points on 41% shooting. Ben won't be 22 until next year.
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As usual, I'm in lockstep with GQ on this one lol.

But I don't think it is a no-brainer. It depends on what the scouts say - the people much smarter than me who I surround myself with. Is Ben on a trajectory toward becoming an even better player? Perhaps he is! If so, if you're a Ben believer - you keep him.

But I thought Ben just shot 3's lights out off his ass earlier in the season - went on a little heater - and it made him look maybe better than he is. But maybe I'm wrong - I guess I'd listen the scouts on that. But I think Ben's value may never be higher than it is right this second. Scot Pollard told us he can't dribble with his left hand and guys don't learn it late in their careers. There was a video the Kings posted a long while back - it was Ben doing dribbling drills - and I was so embarrassed for Ben and for the Kings when I watched it. He doesn't have a handle. Is he a lockdown perimeter defender? Ask Klay Thompson.

Give me Goran!
 
hrdboild said:
Come on guys, haven't you ever heard of players getting better? Dragic averaged 4.5 points on 39% shooting in his age 22 season. Afflalo averaged 3.7 points on 41% shooting. Ben won't be 22 until next year.
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All the more reason why we should have hired George Karl two God damn months ago.

We would have had two months to raise the stock of players we actually want to trade as well as give our young players a chance with a real coach before shipping them out at their lowest selling price. Ehh, whatever, I know just move on already. I'm just forever an optimist and as bad as Nik has been, I'd hate to send him off and have him ballin somewhere else. Another lottery pick down the drain.
 
I hesitate to give up McLemore for anything other than a damn good player.

The kid just needs time. He's clearly made huge strides from his rookie year, and when you show improvement like that... the key thing is you show the ability to improve. That is huge. I see McLemore continuing to improve. He's plugged some major holes in his game. Now he's beginning to settle into it. I don't want to trade him before we can see what he does under our new HOF coach for at least a couple seasons. You just don't give up on talent like that before you know what it is.
 
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HndsmCelt said:
I am down for this but I am not sure who/what we would get back
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I share your sentiments but it's hard to know exactly who we are targeting and what we are trying to accomplish. It would be nice if we had a real "leak" right about now just to get a sense of who we like besides Dragic .. that way we would have a better chance of knowing whether it would be Ben or Nik.

Regardless, Ben is unlikely to get dealt unless we have a real star coming in. I don't see Vivek and PDA letting go of Ben easily.
 
Merdiesel said:
All the more reason why we should have hired George Karl two God damn months ago.

We would have had two months to raise the stock of players we actually want to trade as well as give our young players a chance with a real coach before shipping them out at their lowest selling price. Ehh, whatever, I know just move on already. I'm just forever an optimist and as bad as Nik has been, I'd hate to send him off and have him ballin somewhere else. Another lottery pick down the drain.
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I don't want to move Nik either, I'd be open to it if the return was nice, doubt it will be.

Selling bottom of the barrel.

After considering a lot of what I've seen/heard, and what is likely possible to do.

Simple salary savings for next season is the way to go IMO.
 
HndsmCelt said:
For a year?
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I don't believe Pete would do the deal without a wink/handshake that he will stay as long as we meet the market price and give him the extra year. So we risk losing him to a desperate LA/NY perhaps if they max him or offer him exhorbitant $ beyond the market - but they won't.
 
I am shocked at how many people would rather keep McLemore. I'm with you John Galt.

I know that it's a risk, but it is one that you must be willing to make. We're talking about an All-NBA point guard in Goran Dragic who led a mediocre Suns team last season to nearly 50 wins. I have all the confidence in the world that we will be able to re-sign him.

I know Ben McLemore is nice, and all, but seriously? When you start saying things like, "Well Ben does this better...or Ben might be a better if..." You're reaching at that point.
 
GQ_Gabriel said:
I am shocked at how many people would rather keep McLemore. I'm with you John Galt.

I know that it's a risk, but it is one that you must be willing to make. We're talking about an All-NBA point guard in Goran Dragic who led a mediocre Suns team last season to nearly 50 wins. I have all the confidence in the world that we will be able to re-sign him.

I know Ben McLemore is nice, and all, but seriously? When you start saying things like, "Well Ben does this better...or Ben might be a better if..." You're reaching at that point.
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I take it you campaigning for trading Ben for Dragic is simply marketing to prep the fanbase and that it's likely to happen.
 
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