Johnson: Wallace won't reach expectations for Bulls...

[Kings113]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ben Wallace was supposedly the free-agent catch of the summer. I beg to differ. Yes, he is a stud and his work ethic is a benefit for any team. But aren't we losing sight of something here? Since when do we anoint a player who can’t score, pass or shoot free throws savior status? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Just think about it. How many more blocks and rebounds will Wallace garner than what Tyson Chandler used to? And how many more victories will Wallace bring to the Bulls to justify ridding themselves of Chandler and paying Wallace $60 million?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Bulls are getting Dennis Rodman... without the benefit of having Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen around.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If the Bulls think Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni are the equivalent of those two great players, then somebody better wake up soon in that organization and smell the coffee.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Those are very good young players, but they are not go-to players that will take the pressure off of Wallace having to contribute offensively – like Rodman didn’t have to for those great Chicago squads. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wallace will be the highest-paid player on the team, but the fourth or fifth best in all-around skill categories.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How will that discrepancy sit with players like Hinrich and Gordon?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ben Wallace will find out early how much Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince meant to him and how they hid his deficiencies. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He was protected to the max in that lineup with the multitude of offensive players surrounding him. Now he has a young inconsistent team with a volatile coach in Scott Skiles to protect his weaknesses every night.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I know Pistons coach Flip Saunders can’t wait to see those weaknesses exploited, thus proving to everyone why he couldn’t play Wallace consistently against certain teams down the stretch of the season and during the playoffs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Understand I am not a Wallace-basher. I think he is one of the hardest workers in the league, but there is a reason why... He has no choice. If Wallace didn’t work hard, he would be out the league.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He can’t shoot from outside three feet, he has no post moves, he is an adequate passer at best and he is a horrible free-throw shooter. Wallace's attributes are great weak-side defense and tenacious rebounding. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But understand this warning... If Tyrus Thomas can’t defend the ball in the post like Rasheed did in Detroit allowing Wallace to roam, then he will likely be inconsistent and stay in foul trouble – in the end, not paying the dividends they are expecting.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You have to wonder why the Pistons didn't do everything to keep Wallace. They obviously knew what they were doing when Larry Brown was allowed to leave Motown one year after winning a championship. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We saw first hand with Brown why the Pistons didn’t cry and you will see again next year why they still will not pout too much over Wallace leaving.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They know who their best interior player is and his name is Rasheed – not Ben. And although Antonio McDyess is not Ben Wallace, he is a capable defender and a much better scorer.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They also didn’t like the way Wallace was complaining about coaching strategy publicly. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wallace complained that the Pistons didn’t work hard enough on defense, but yet couldn’t Saunders complain that he didn’t work hard enough to improve his offense?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It seemed like the player whose weaknesses were being protected the most was turning on the very hand that put players around him to secure his cult status and put him in position to earn mega millions.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So now that the Bulls have invested $60 million in a player that needs more help around him than any player probably in the history of the league to justify his earnings. We will see how patient they are as an organization. And most importantly, we will see how patient those die-hard Bulls fans are now that they feel like they can contend with the best clubs in the Eastern Conference.[/FONT]

http://www.hoopshype.com/columns/wallace_johnson.htm

Well, he is/has been an announcer for the Suns...

Disagree - Skiles, defense, versatility, athleticism, and their wing players will get them deep in the playoffs. Little FC-offense or not.

Hinrich/Gordon, have definitely proven consistently they can get it done when needed, with help from Deng/Nocioni. All 4 of them can score 20 or more on any night, and Duhon, if he's starting. In the front-court, the best offense is PJ Brown's consistent jumpshot and post-up game. Obviously not an anchor or anything for the offense in the front-court, but it's another option to go to.

Odd how Johnson forgets Ben's post-defense, quickness, and steals. Along with being a prescence in the paint. With the blocks and rebounding, is what got him those 4 DPOY-awards.

Inconsistent? They weren't in the 2005 half of 2004-2005, and yes, they were in 05-06. But, with the additions now, they won't be an inconsistent team anymore.

Winning the East? Not too sure about that, yet.

 

[Bricklayer]

This would be an article from the Peja of his day right? Good ole E.J.? Real shocker that he isn't able to figure out the impact of a Ben Wallace.

 

[BMiller52]

I disagree with that. I mean the bulls offense is mostly slashing/kicking out and pick&roll. The reason they score points is because of their guards, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they're not some great offensive team. PJ Brown, Ben Wallace, and Tyrus Thomas is A HUGE UPGRADE from Songaila, Chandler, and Malik Allen. The Bulls will win games because of their defense. PJ Brown is a good post defender with a jump shot. Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace can block shots and rebound. Hinrich and their perimeter guys aren't bad defenders. Tyrus also has skills he's been working on/didn't get to show in college. He should definitely be quick enough to get past NBA PFs and he has an inconsistent perimeter shot that he's working on. Skiles gets the absolute MAX out of his players and you can bet that Ben will love that. He's the leader/heart and soul they've needed and he's the leader/heart and soul player that Detroit just lost. 50 win team.

 

[Fillmoe]

if the pistons can do it without any sort of "jordan/pippen" duo then why cant the bulls?

 

[Kings113]

I can't wait to see what he thinks of the Bulls and Ben Wallace in February... and when they beat the Suns, at least once. Myself, I'd expect 2-0.

Memories of the garbage years for the Bulls after Jordan/Phil/Pippen were all gone: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=544431

Interesting to read for a number of reasons, for me especially, I really only know about a few things from then. Like the Brand/Artest/Brad/Chandler/Jay Williams stuff, still can't believe the garbage Krause did. As I stopped following the NBA after 98, and only watched some general playoffs and finals games when the Sixers got it rolling. Until 2003 when I got more into the NBA, and increased as time went on. Also cool because of the season and beyond the Bulls will have.

 

[jacobdrj]

Ben Wallace. I have been watching him for a LONG LONG time, since Orlando in fact. Something many people don't get about him, unless you watch him A LOT in MANY different situations is this: He always has gaudy numbers on D. But he has never played anything beyond 500 ball without a super 1-on-1 post defender next to him...

Orlando: was a 500 team when he was there. He had nobody to cover for him whenever he went team-defense on people.

Detroit, year 1: He had a LOT of blocks, a LOT of rebounds and a good amount of steals... but the Pistons were a bad team (I herd Stack averaged nearly 28 ppg that year, but he trusted noone).

Detroit, years 2 & 3: Than, all of a sudden, BOOM, in comes Cliff Robinson, one of, if not the, greatest 1-on-1 post defender in the NBA plays with him. This freed Ben to 'gamble'. 50 wins.

Detroit, year 4: Cliff had been traded because of some, dubious off court activities (herpies lawsuit...). Detroit has a new coach, and a bunch of 'talented' (but never used) draft picks. Yet, the core didn't change much outside of JB and Cliff, but the Pistons are playing 500 ball again. They even have a 13 game win streak, but it is nullified by a couple 5 game loosing streaks before and after it... Ben looks tired, ineffective. He works hard, but it never pays off. In comes Rasheed Wallace, apparently, when he wants to be, an even better 1-on-1 post defender than Cliff Robinson! Pistons go on defensive tear, go on to win title.

Detroit, year 5: Well, all of that 'best starting 5' nonsense was going around, and Larry belived it, so he made a point of ONLY playing the starting 5. Its enough to get em' to the finals (however exhausted, and with a little Miami Heat injurry luck. However, the fact remains, he had Sheed, and the Pistons were a 'winning' team.

Detroit, year 6: Same as year 5, except Ben and Sheed are a year older, and the new coach uses the bench EVEN LESS. Still effective, but more tired, the 'best starting 5' is again good enough to just run outta gas against a now healthy Shaq-Wade combo.

Chicago, year 1: No Sheed. No Cliff. What will he do? He has matured since 2004, but will it be enough without one of those great post defenders next to him? Am I underrating his teammates at PF and SF? Time will tell...

 

[BMiller52]

Ben Wallace. I have been watching him for a LONG LONG time, since Orlando in fact. Something many people don't get about him, unless you watch him A LOT in MANY different situations is this: He always has gaudy numbers on D. But he has never played anything beyond 500 ball without a super 1-on-1 post defender next to him...

Orlando: was a 500 team when he was there. He had nobody to cover for him whenever he went team-defense on people.

Detroit, year 1: He had a LOT of blocks, a LOT of rebounds and a good amount of steals... but the Pistons were a bad team (I herd Stack averaged nearly 28 ppg that year, but he trusted noone).

Detroit, years 2 & 3: Than, all of a sudden, BOOM, in comes Cliff Robinson, one of, if not the, greatest 1-on-1 post defender in the NBA plays with him. This freed Ben to 'gamble'. 50 wins.

Detroit, year 4: Cliff had been traded because of some, dubious off court activities (herpies lawsuit...). Detroit has a new coach, and a bunch of 'talented' (but never used) draft picks. Yet, the core didn't change much outside of JB and Cliff, but the Pistons are playing 500 ball again. They even have a 13 game win streak, but it is nullified by a couple 5 game loosing streaks before and after it... Ben looks tired, ineffective. He works hard, but it never pays off. In comes Rasheed Wallace, apparently, when he wants to be, an even better 1-on-1 post defender than Cliff Robinson! Pistons go on defensive tear, go on to win title.

Detroit, year 5: Well, all of that 'best starting 5' nonsense was going around, and Larry belived it, so he made a point of ONLY playing the starting 5. Its enough to get em' to the finals (however exhausted, and with a little Miami Heat injurry luck. However, the fact remains, he had Sheed, and the Pistons were a 'winning' team.

Detroit, year 6: Same as year 5, except Ben and Sheed are a year older, and the new coach uses the bench EVEN LESS. Still effective, but more tired, the 'best starting 5' is again good enough to just run outta gas against a now healthy Shaq-Wade combo.

Chicago, year 1: No Sheed. No Cliff. What will he do? He has matured since 2004, but will it be enough without one of those great post defenders next to him? Am I underrating his teammates at PF and SF? Time will tell...

PJ Brown isn't the defender Cliff or Sheed is but he's good at it even though he's old.

 

[nbrans]

I think people are ignoring the way Wallace's impact on the game has diminished the last three years. Ben Wallace might inspire some confidence on the young players on the Bulls, they may think of themselves as a much better team, but Ben's not the player he once was.

 

[Ryle]

I think people are ignoring the way Wallace's impact on the game has diminished the last three years. Ben Wallace might inspire some confidence on the young players on the Bulls, they may think of themselves as a much better team, but Ben's not the player he once was.

I agree....paying Ben Wallace 15 mill a year is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think people are ignoring the way Wallace's impact on the game has diminished the last three years. Ben Wallace might inspire some confidence on the young players on the Bulls, they may think of themselves as a much better team, but Ben's not the player he once was.

No he's not the same player he once was, but its a mild slide, and that confidence is one of the nearly all important great player traits -- that ability to raise everybody up around you and give them spirit/heart/direction far beyond your own abilities. We saw the same thing with our own team, both with our inexplicable (to some) slide into mediocrity after we lost a one-legged player, and then our revival with Artest -- who had his share of struggling games, shot terribly, and yet lifted us out of the lottery by inspiring everybody ELSE to play better.

Now you put Ben next to yet another old post defending warrior (Brown was one of the best for a long time, and unlike Uncle Cliffy actually rebounds and plays in the postseason) and back them up with a kid with springs in his legs, and the Bulls have a short window here where they should be able to compete with the elite. Win a title? Doubt it. Too many holes, too much age at one spot and youth at another. But that front line is tough and will provide major leadership for the whole squad.

P.S. And while I myself have noted that Ben Wallace as a one on one defender has never faired nearly as well as legend would suggest, Ben Wallace as help defender has to the tune of four DPOYs. Four.

 

[walker60]

I think people are ignoring the way Wallace's impact on the game has diminished the last three years. Ben Wallace might inspire some confidence on the young players on the Bulls, they may think of themselves as a much better team, but Ben's not the player he once was.

That's a good point. Ben Wallace is definitley better than Chandler, but he's going to be making a lot more money per season. They improved, but not by as much as people think IMO.