Joerger: Tanking, incompetent or ? (With poll)

[GoSACtown]

Buddy goes 3-4 in the 1st quarter last night with 7 points, doesn't come back in until the 2nd half. Skal goes 4-6 with 11 points and plays 15 minutes.

This is ridiculous and has been happening every game. Don't give me the whole player development spiel, I have never in my life heard of a player starting the game, going 3-4 during his start, and not coming back until the 2nd half.

I'm sure somebody will mention his success in Memphis, he took over a team that was already making the playoffs every year with 50+ wins. It was due to all the vets he had who could still play, and carried the team (zbo, Marc Gasol, Conley, Allen, etc.).

I believe he's deliberately trying to lose games already, which is depressing.

 

[SLAB]

The kids are "learning." Or something. Idk. I'm frustrated with it, but after sleeping on it I decided to give it a few more weeks before screaming about Joerger and his rotations too much.

... if he's still pulling this strange nonsense after that? We'll talk then.

 

[GoSACtown]

The kids are "learning." Or something. Idk. I'm frustrated with it, but after sleeping on it I decided to give it a few more weeks before screaming about Joerger and his rotations too much.

... if he's still pulling this strange nonsense after that? We'll talk then.

That's fair. I want a refund on all the tickets I've purchased if winning is not the goal.

 

[SLAB]

That's fair. I want a refund on all the tickets I've purchased if winning is not the goal.

Trying to win or otherwise, I don't think the team has enough talent for it to even matter. This is a 60 loss team.

We're awful right now. Like worst team in the league awful. Doesn't mean the future isn't bright, because I believe it is.... This certainly isn't the season for wins though.

 

[Joshoua]

Not enough good coaches to entertain getting rid of him but Memphis fans say his rotation frustrated them as well

 

[GoSACtown]

Trying to win or otherwise, I don't think the team has enough talent for it to even matter. This is a 60 loss team.

We're awful right now. Like worst team in the league awful. Doesn't mean the future isn't bright, because I believe it is.... This certainly isn't the season for wins though.

We are only a 60 loss team if coaching continues as is. We've given away 2 wins this year purely based on coaching rotations.

 

[John Galt]

That's fair. I want a refund on all the tickets I've purchased if winning is not the goal.

They have said that winning is not the goal. not implied it... you don't have to read between the lines... they aren't speaking out both sides of their mouth... there is zero mystery about it.

DJ has said this himself - he said it on the season ticket holder conference call the other day and I've seen it reported many times. This season's success will not be measured by wins and losses. He is going to play a 10 man rotation. He has said "we're talking about a two year process".

WINNING IS NOT THE GOAL

 

[hrdboild]

That didn't take long!

 

[GoSACtown]

They have said that winning is not the goal. not implied it... you don't have to read between the lines... they aren't speaking out both sides of their mouth... there is zero mystery about it.

DJ has said this himself - he said it on the season ticket holder conference call the other day and I've seen it reported many times. This season's success will not be measured by wins and losses. He is going to play a 10 man rotation. He has said "we're talking about a two year process".

WINNING IS NOT THE GOAL

Do you have a link to the conference call or a report where he's quoted saying that?

 

[Kingster]

Winning may not be the goal for this season, but that doesn't mean they don't want to win. I think Joerger knows full well that if they don't win some games the collective motivation of this team goes in the tank, which doesn't help their overall progress any. Just the opposite. At the same time, he's probably concerned about relegating his vets to cheerleaders on the bench at this point in the season. Having the vets is a good thing for teaching young guys, but it comes at a cost, which is a disjointed team that doesn't have an identity.

 

[macadocious]

Do you have a link to the conference call or a report where he's quoted saying that?

He's said it multiple times in the pre-season during interviews in addition to that call.

I am certain that they are putting different lineups together to see how players play in certain situations. I would bet some of the rotations are pre-planned and not based on game flow.

 

[John Galt]

Do you have a link to the conference call or a report where he's quoted saying that?

You know, they started the thing at 6:20 after saying it would happen at 6:00. And the voicemail they left me said they would email a recap but they never did.

The kings are not good at stuff. So sorry, I don't have a link. So you can decide not to believe it. But he said it plain as day - and he got the contract extension so I think it is quite obvious that Vlade/Vivek are behind him.

Fan bases sure are tough. They will say they are tired of being mired in mediocrity and call for a "true rebuild" - and then scream like banshees when they get it (same thing happening now with the Niners). Both teams are doing true rebuild and doing it superlatively imo.

 

[allrightythen]

Edit: I did not read the title thoroughly, I think the assertion that Joerger is incompetent is silly.

Depending on how you defining tanking he may be doing that. I don't think he's losing games on purpose but I also don't think winning as many games as possible this season is his primary concern.

I thought Jackson deserved more time as well. I love VC but if the young guys are playing well then he doesn't really need to play. And last night Skal, Jackson, Buddy, Bogdan, etc.. were all playing well enough that Vince didn't need to play. And Temple wasn't playing particularly well either so he could have seen fewer minutes as well.

Coach Joerger tends to be slow with the young guys so maybe he has committed to 10 games or something like that of a certain line-up setup and has discussed this with players. I don't really know but it does look to me like the young guys are earning more minutes.

 

[kingsfan1984]

Winning may not be the goal for this season, but that doesn't mean they don't want to win. I think Joerger knows full well that if they don't win some games the collective motivation of this team goes in the tank.

I'm not so sure. I think the mind set of this team is for the season is treating it as an extended training camp. In this case, improvement would be more of the correlation to motivation than winning

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I would say tinkering rather than tanking. This is not a team built to win now and it's arguable that if we collect a top 5 pick next season we will be a team built to threaten in 4-5 seasons if 3-4 of the young players we have pan out how we think they will and another 2-3 develop into quality depth pieces.

I feel like there were flashes of good and great in both the Phoenix and Pels games along with some absolute garbage bottom of the barrel moments that buried the team in between. Losing to those two teams in their state is embarrassing, at the end of the day I think as long as we do nothing to panic in 2-3 seasons we're going to come out of this in better shape than we came out of 2010-2011 where we were so gung ho on the Tyreke and Boogie pairing.

 

[GoSACtown]

You know, they started the thing at 6:20 after saying it would happen at 6:00. And the voicemail they left me said they would email a recap but they never did.

The kings are not good at stuff. So sorry, I don't have a link. So you can decide not to believe it. But he said it plain as day - and he got the contract extension so I think it is quite obvious that Vlade/Vivek are behind him.

Fan bases sure are tough. They will say they are tired of being mired in mediocrity and call for a "true rebuild" - and then scream like banshees when they get it (same thing happening now with the Niners). Both teams are doing true rebuild and doing it superlatively imo.

I'm not paying money to watch this team deliberately lose, that's a scam. The goal may not be to win games, however these games are WINNABLE. Is the goal to lose games then? If that's the case, please drop ticket prices, it's a scam to charge full price for half the product.

 

[macadocious]

I'm not paying money to watch this team deliberately lose, that's a scam. If they want to develop the players and lose games on purpose, drop ticket prices.

Like, what was your expectation for this year? I've watched every game and I've been to two. Except the nuggets game, we played well and were in every game. The games were also all pretty exciting.

The last thing I (or most fans want) is a 31 win team that gets the 8th pick. This is not a playoff team, like literally ZERO chance, regardless of what Barkely says. So why don't we enjoy the hopefully 20-26 wins we get, which will probably mostly be at home and get a top 3-5 pick in a very top heavy draft then look forward to having some potential start players next season to build around. THEN, in 2019, when we have cap space add correlating veterans for a playoff push.

That IS their plan BTW, they have not hidden it AT ALL.

 

[GoSACtown]

Like, what was your expectation for this year? I've watched every game and I've been to two. Except the nuggets game, we played well and were in every game. The games were also all pretty exciting.

The last thing I (or most fans want) is a 31 win team that gets the 8th pick. This is not a playoff team, like literally ZERO chance, regardless of what Barkely says. So why don't we enjoy the hopefully 20-26 wins we get, which will probably mostly be at home and get a top 3-5 pick in a very top heavy draft then look forward to having some potential start players next season to build around. THEN, in 2019, when we have cap space add correlating veterans for a playoff push.

That IS their plan BTW, they have not hidden it AT ALL.

My expectation is to win games that are winnable, like last night. We could have easily won, Joerger's rotations made us lose. Same goes for the Phoenix game, we easily could have won that one as well.

How can we possibly know how many wins we're capable of if we are intentionally losing?

 

[macadocious]

My expectation is to win games that are winnable, like last night. We could have easily won, Joerger's rotations made us lose. Same goes for the Phoenix game, we easily could have won that one as well.

How can we possibly know how many wins we're capable of if we are intentionally losing?

That is super debatable. The only reason we even had a chance in PHX was because Temple caught on fire at the end. While I don't disagree that some things could have been done differently last night, that doesn't guarantee us a win.

Are you saying that Joerger saw us having success and intentionally put in a lineup that wouldn't have success in an attempt to lose?

 

[GoSACtown]

That is super debatable. The only reason we even had a chance in PHX was because Temple caught on fire at the end. While I don't disagree that some things could have been done differently last night, that doesn't guarantee us a win.

Are you saying that Joerger saw us having success and intentionally put in a lineup that wouldn't have success in an attempt to lose?

Buddy had 14 points 5 steals through the 3rd quarter in Phoenix, and absolutely dominated in that quarter, and did not play once in the 4th quarter. Put Buddy in the 4th we would have won.

I really hope that's not with Joerger is doing, but it sure looks like it. That's the question I'm asking, are we tanking already? It seems like the answer is yes based on all the replies here, saying that Joerger is not judging this season on wins/losses.

 

[kingdivac]

Winning is the goal as in all professional sports competition. A 10 man rotation is what most NBA teams ought to do to help limit injury and optimize energy; utilizing a 10 man rotation does not predicate losing and I actually applaud Joerger for doing it. Thats not a problem, heck I'd like to see 12 rotation with Mason and Richardson getting some looks in. Dividing the minutes properly is the problem. Joerger obviously is trying to evaluate, and any coach needs time to evaluate. He's had some time to evaluate, and has come up with this rotation in which they've lost 3 games within a competitive margin. Give it several more games at least.

 

[kingsboi]

He is neither. He is out to show the rooks and sophomores that nothing is given and that if they want to start and get minutes, they will have to earn it and play hard at all times. At least that's what I'm hoping the mindset is. It's either that or he has a infatuation with over playing his vets and not giving enough time to the players that need to grow and get minutes. It's too early to have a Joerger thread IMO, do we really need something to talk about here?

 

[GoSACtown]

Winning is the goal as in all professional sports competition. A 10 man rotation is what most NBA teams ought to do to help limit injury and optimize energy; utilizing a 10 man rotation does not predicate losing and I actually applaud Joerger for doing it. Thats not a problem, heck I'd like to see 12 rotation with Mason and Richardson getting some looks in. Dividing the minutes properly is the problem. Joerger obviously is trying to evaluate, and any coach needs time to evaluate. He's had some time to evaluate, and has come up with this rotation in which they've lost 3 games within a competitive margin. Give it several more games at least.

Apparently winning is not the goal for the Kings, read all the responses.

 

[GoSACtown]

He is neither. He is out to show the rooks and sophomores that nothing is given and that if they want to start and get minutes, they will have to earn it and play hard at all times. At least that's what I'm hoping the mindset is. It's either that or he has a infatuation with over playing his vets and not giving enough time to the players that need to grow and get minutes. It's too early to have a Joerger thread IMO, do we really need something to talk about here?

The Rooks and sophomores are performing! The vets have been pretty bad, that logic makes no sense.

 

[kingdivac]

Buddy had 14 points 5 steals through the 3rd quarter in Phoenix, and absolutely dominated in that quarter, and did not play once in the 4th quarter. Put Buddy in the 4th we would have won.

I really hope that's not with Joerger is doing, but it sure looks like it. That's the question I'm asking, are we tanking already? It seems like the answer is yes based on all the replies here, saying that Joerger is not judging this season on wins/losses.

I sincerely doubt they're tanking this early in the season. Joerger is trying to get a feel for his team, like all the other subpar Kings teams coaches. I'd like to see more tinkering too, but throughout games instead of just at the end of games. There's no substitution limit in the NBA.

 

[kingsboi]

The Rooks and sophomores are performing! The vets have been pretty bad, that logic makes no sense.

They are performing and at the same time making mistakes, which is to be expected. Maybe Joerger has a shorter leash for mistakes right now than he will later in the season.

 

[Section 101]

My expectation is to win games that are winnable, like last night. We could have easily won, Joerger's rotations made us lose. Same goes for the Phoenix game, we easily could have won that one as well.

How can we possibly know how many wins we're capable of if we are intentionally losing?

So KK missing a pass and blowing a layup had nothing to do with losing?

 

[John Galt]

Buddy had 14 points 5 steals through the 3rd quarter in Phoenix, and absolutely dominated in that quarter, and did not play once in the 4th quarter. Put Buddy in the 4th we would have won.

I really hope that's not with Joerger is doing, but it sure looks like it. That's the question I'm asking, are we tanking already? It seems like the answer is yes based on all the replies here, saying that Joerger is not judging this season on wins/losses.

I think it is fighting words to say Joerger is coaching intentionally to lose. I don't believe it in a million years it would go completely against his character grain. You mean he would sabotage a game?? no way.. no way.

 

[John Galt]

So KK missing a pass and blowing a layup had nothing to do with losing?

Temple's pass to the referee too... and some horsecrap ref calls down the stretch

 

[kingdivac]

I would say tinkering rather than tanking. This is not a team built to win now and it's arguable that if we collect a top 5 pick next season we will be a team built to threaten in 4-5 seasons if 3-4 of the young players we have pan out how we think they will and another 2-3 develop into quality depth pieces.

I feel like there were flashes of good and great in both the Phoenix and Pels games along with some absolute garbage bottom of the barrel moments that buried the team in between. Losing to those two teams in their state is embarrassing, at the end of the day I think as long as we do nothing to panic in 2-3 seasons we're going to come out of this in better shape than we came out of 2010-2011 where we were so gung ho on the Tyreke and Boogie pairing.

I have little idea where this organization will be in 2-3 seasons. They need to start improving before declaring coming out in "better shape". Long term positive thinking is probably better than long term negative thinking in general.