Joerger Status. (He’s Fired)

[kingsfan1984]

This. It's easy to call for a coach's head, but 18 out of our last 19 coaches haven't led the team to even one winning season. Those odds worry me.

Thing is, its the players not the coach that is the biggest factor in winning IMO.

Which unexpected player has emerged under Joeger? WCS floundered. Skal same story etc etc.

Buddy improved due to his epic work ethic. No brick wall would stand in front of him.
Fox is immensely talented and id expect would be where he is at regardless of the coach.
Ditto for bagley

Same for Giles. In fact id argue joeger has impeded Giles. Lack of mins and restricted his role.
And is Fox really being groomed properly? He should be taking 5 3s a game imo and cut the mid range elbow jumpers

Top coachea get more out of the marginal players. What marginal player have we gotten more out of???

 

[Showtime]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1116377409425530881

Does this make anyone feel better about the firing?

You know who else had contentious relationships with the coaching staff? Cousins. At some point, you have to pick a side and maintain some stability. Catering to players who don't know how to win vs a coach who does is kind of why we've not seen the playoffs in 13 years. Just think what might have happened if this team kept Malone and dealt Cousins. Well, I can watch the Nuggets and find out.

 

[kingsfan1984]

You know who else had contentious relationships with the coaching staff? Cousins. At some point, you have to pick a side and maintain some stability. Catering to players who don't know how to win vs a coach who does is kind of why we've not seen the playoffs in 13 years. Just think what might have happened if this team kept Malone and dealt Cousins. Well, I can watch the Nuggets and find out.

This is NOT the same as Malone. And where is Joeger a proven winner? He inherited a winning culture and club

 

[Tetsujin]

Thing is, its the players not the coach that is the biggest factor in winning IMO.

Which unexpected player has emerged under Joeger? WCS floundered. Skal same story etc etc.

Buddy improved due to his epic work ethic. No brick wall would stand in front of him.
Fox is immensely talented and id expect would be where he is at regardless of the coach.
Ditto for bagley

Same for Giles. In fact id argue joeger has impeded Giles. Lack of mins and restricted his role.
And is Fox really being groomed properly? He should be taking 5 3s a game imo and cut the mid range elbow jumpers

Top coachea get more out of the marginal players. What marginal player have we gotten more out of???

I mean the fact that he kept taking Harry out of the game in the third quarter after having stretches of just dominant basketball and forgetting to put him back in certainly didn't help things

 

[est.1999]

Maybe vlade wanted bagley the whole time and it was Williams who tried steering away from him and yogurt wanted luka so that’s why he never started bagley??

 

[kingsfan1984]

I mean the fact that he kept taking Harry out of the game in the third quarter after having stretches of just dominant basketball and forgetting to put him back in certainly didn't help things

And he suppose to be a defensive coach and our defense was aweful all year and got worse.

Then, he has an offensive system that apparently takes 15 years to implement

 

[SLAB]

You know who else had contentious relationships with the coaching staff? Cousins. At some point, you have to pick a side and maintain some stability. Catering to players who don't know how to win vs a coach who does is kind of why we've not seen the playoffs in 13 years. Just think what might have happened if this team kept Malone and dealt Cousins. Well, I can watch the Nuggets and find out.

Imagine keeping Malone AND Cousins. What a world.

 

[Tetsujin]

You know who else had contentious relationships with the coaching staff? Cousins. At some point, you have to pick a side and maintain some stability. Catering to players who don't know how to win vs a coach who does is kind of why we've not seen the playoffs in 13 years. Just think what might have happened if this team kept Malone and dealt Cousins. Well, I can watch the Nuggets and find out.

Does he though? Joerger has caused constant drama in his two head coaching gigs and won in Memphis using a system largely established in conjunction with prior head coach Lionel Hollins and a roster full of old vets and DPOY Marc Gasol

 

[Showtime]

This is NOT the same as Malone. And where is Joeger a proven winner? He inherited a winning culture and club

Memphis was a playoff team under him. He inherited players, but he helped give the team an identity. I've been very critical of some of his lineup decisions, but he did help give this team the identity of a fast paced exciting squad.

 

[est.1999]

Memphis was a playoff team under him.

You mean before him

 

[Tetsujin]

Memphis was a playoff team under him.

And under Lionel Hollins (the guy who built most of the Grit'n'Grind framework) before him

 

[The_Jamal]

Thing is, its the players not the coach that is the biggest factor in winning IMO.

Which unexpected player has emerged under Joeger? WCS floundered. Skal same story etc etc.

Buddy improved due to his epic work ethic. No brick wall would stand in front of him.
Fox is immensely talented and id expect would be where he is at regardless of the coach.
Ditto for bagley

Same for Giles. In fact id argue joeger has impeded Giles. Lack of mins and restricted his role.
And is Fox really being groomed properly? He should be taking 5 3s a game imo and cut the mid range elbow jumpers

Top coachea get more out of the marginal players. What marginal player have we gotten more out of???

Lmao. So he doesn't get any credit for player improvement, but he gets nailed for the "busts"?

How about Nemanja Bjelica and Harrison Barnes? How about Corey Brewer and Iman Shumpert?

 

[Showtime]

Does he though? Joerger has caused constant drama in his two head coaching gigs and won in Memphis using a system largely established in conjunction with prior head coach Lionel Hollins and a roster full of old vets and DPOY Marc Gasol

Cool, except they've been on a steady decline since he left with the same core.

 

[upinsmoke]

Memphis was a playoff team under him. He inherited players, but he helped give the team an identity. I've been very critical of some of his lineup decisions, but he did help give this team the identity of a fast paced exciting squad.

I don't mean to discredit joerger but he didn't build that team up tbh.

 

[Tetsujin]

Cool, except they've been on a steady decline since he left with the same core.

That team was on a steady decline WITH Joerger there too. Plus all their players got old as hell and Mike Conley's body fell apart like he was Mister Potato Head

 

[Livinthedream]

Post all star game, the team entered an epic collapse. Blowing 28 point leads is not something that management is going to ignore. I mean, their loss to Brooklyn was literally historic. If Joerger wasn't under the microscope before that, he definitely was after. If the team started the year with their post all star record, Joerger would have been fired and I don't think anyone would have complained. In my opinion, it was worse to collapse after showing so much promise.

 

[steelevt]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1116377409425530881

Does this make anyone feel better about the firing?

If there were exit interviews and our core didn't want to play for joerger anymore it would explain things. If they checked out the second half of the season and won't play hard for him then why keep him. Not feel good about the firing but I'd understand it more.

 

[Showtime]

I don't mean to discredit joerger but he didn't build that team up tbh.

He had Fox and Buddy and Bogi last season and that team looked far different. Part of that is due to their improvements, but the offense was Dave trying to maximize their talents in a situation for them to succeed. Bagley was developing (despite complaints) in his role off the bench to be a 20/10 per 36. I don't think having talent develop and having a team identity manifest itself had nothing to do with the coach. This entire franchise has failed over and over on developing the talent they drafted and we haven't seen positive strides in that area so far. I don't think that should be entirely on the shoulders of the individuals.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Truth. Joerger isn’t Mike Malone.

He’s better than the Smarts, Natts, Old Man Karls of world but he’s absolutly not free of blame here.

Hey Karl with this group would not be the same as Karl with the old group. Cousins & Karl were never going to mix.

 

[Tetsujin]

Post all star game, the team entered an epic collapse. Blowing 28 point leads is not something that management is going to ignore. I mean, their loss to Brooklyn was literally historic. If Joerger wasn't under the microscope before that, he definitely was after. If the team started the year with their post all star record, Joerger would have been fired and I don't think anyone would have complained. In my opinion, it was worse to collapse after showing so much promise.

And the crazy thing is that we literally let it happen TWICE

 

[Tetsujin]

Hey Karl with this group would not be the same as Karl with the old group. Cousins & Karl were never going to mix.

George Karl is an butthead who gets his entire team to hate his guts. The less said about him the better.

 

[NME]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1116377409425530881

Does this make anyone feel better about the firing?

As much as I can't stand Joerger's coaching style and demeanor, I recognize the risk in getting back on the coaching treadmill.

THIS was the tie-breaker for me. If the players were still sold on him, I would have to lean toward giving him another year to see if he could continue an upward trajectory. If he has in fact lost the players, as it seemed to me watching the team's effort the past two months, then he has to be gone.

 

[Tetsujin]

Via Memphis media guy Chris Vernon:

https://twitter.com/statuses/1116377777064894464

Soooo yeah

 

[Joshoua]

I like the guys we’re looking at love Luke Walton, Lebron please fire him like you wanted Spolstra PLEASE. LA was the 4th seed till the drama king torpedoed the season.

I also love Messina not a fan of Monty though unless we trade for AD.

 

[NME]

A single year of having a team identity and sniffing .500 and we blow it up. I guess we were too close to a winning season, so something had to be done.

Our identity as the team that blows games in increasingly improbable ways.

 

[Joshoua]

Also not losing sleep over Joerger dude has burned bridges here and Memphis at some point it’s his fault

 

[Iced Espresso]

George Karl is an butthead who gets his entire team to hate his guts. The less said about him the better.

In his defense GP still loves him.

 

[BigVirg]

Go get us Luke Walton Vladfather.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I mean the fact that he kept taking Harry out of the game in the third quarter after having stretches of just dominant basketball and forgetting to put him back in certainly didn't help things

Harry needs to better his athleticism and defense by a lot starting next season. WCS motor would have failed him under anyone. Bagley was developing off the bench, and would’ve been a tough fit this year with the starters. Barnes is arguably a stretch 4

I can’t fault him for anything, but that’s opinion

 

[Showtime]

That team was on a steady decline WITH Joerger there too. Plus all their players got old as hell and Mike Conley's body fell apart like he was Mister Potato Head

Hollins:
40, 46, 51, 56 wins.
Dave:
Year 1: 50 wins
Year 2: 55 wins
Year 3: 42 wins
After Dave:
43, 22, 33 wins.

Even if the argument is Dave took over a successful team and kept it going, that's still better than what other coaches have done with the same players. And it isn't like Dave wasn't coaching older and injured guys too. Its not like that core fell off a cliff either, since his team dealt with older and injured guys too.

Let's keep the discussion on topic though. I called him a proven winner, meaning he proved himself to be able to coach a winning team. Here we are as a team that hasn't even sniffed .500 until this season where he was finally able to put his stamp on this franchise and he's getting criticized. He's literally the most successful coach the team has had since Malone was unproven and Karl hadn't coached in a while when they took over. The idea that he's not up to snuff for this franchise at this point is a mystery to me.