Jimmy Jackson Update
- Thread starter Folsom Al
- Start date
I'm sure this topic should be moved to the NBA forum, but here's my take on it anyway: who cares?
Phoenix had a lousy bench and this does little to remedy it. I completely understand this from the Hornets perspective. That get a young shooter in Jacobsen and an intriguing big man and one time potential lottery pick in Lampe for a guy who was never going to suit up for them.
I like Jimmy, but what problems does he solve? The Suns are still small, still weak on the boards, still lack a post presence on both ends and are still thin on the bench. Who is JJ going to take minutes from? Q? Marion? Joe Johnson? Each of those three guys is averaging close to 40 minutes per game right now. On a team with a real center, Amare would start at PF and one of the wings I just mentioned would be coming off the bench.
Not a bad deal for either team, but it certainly doesn't scare me as a Kings fan.
Phoenix had a lousy bench and this does little to remedy it. I completely understand this from the Hornets perspective. That get a young shooter in Jacobsen and an intriguing big man and one time potential lottery pick in Lampe for a guy who was never going to suit up for them.
I like Jimmy, but what problems does he solve? The Suns are still small, still weak on the boards, still lack a post presence on both ends and are still thin on the bench. Who is JJ going to take minutes from? Q? Marion? Joe Johnson? Each of those three guys is averaging close to 40 minutes per game right now. On a team with a real center, Amare would start at PF and one of the wings I just mentioned would be coming off the bench.
Not a bad deal for either team, but it certainly doesn't scare me as a Kings fan.
i think its immature and sets a bad example regardless of whether or not he forfeited his salary per game...
giving up the money is just dirt off his shoulder
I like JJ i think he's a good player...but this whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach...and i actually lost a little bit of respect for him...i don't know if he has kids or not but would he tell his son that its okay to do that?? "if you ever get traded to a team that sucks just never show up...they'll be forced to trade you sooner or later"
ugh
giving up the money is just dirt off his shoulder
I like JJ i think he's a good player...but this whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach...and i actually lost a little bit of respect for him...i don't know if he has kids or not but would he tell his son that its okay to do that?? "if you ever get traded to a team that sucks just never show up...they'll be forced to trade you sooner or later"
ugh
No Problem ...
I still consider myself a ROOKIE on these boards ... only been here since November (as you can see) .... Just in the past couple of weeks I've started browsing around and checking-out the other boards.
There's alot here ... alot of different TOPICS .... but, when I'm posting I forget about some of them other areas.
I still consider myself a ROOKIE on these boards ... only been here since November (as you can see) .... Just in the past couple of weeks I've started browsing around and checking-out the other boards.
There's alot here ... alot of different TOPICS .... but, when I'm posting I forget about some of them other areas.
Good for JJ (I guess), good for NO they get something for nothing, and not bad for Phoenix who get some help at the 2-3 but as noted by other posters that was not their problem. Even if they now make the deal for Dalembert does that really do anything to adress the no back up for Nash issue or the team cant paly with Nash out of the play isue? probably not, it does extend their strenths while compleetly ignoring their quite public weakness.
Rumor has it that this sets up the Suns for a Joe Johnson-Sam Dalembert trade. That would give the Suns a lineup of Nash-Q-Marion-Amare-Dalembert. Scary. Still no bench outside of Barbosa, though that's easily fixable.
edit: Whoops, this was already mentioned. That said, Johnson is a big price to pay, and it definitely hurts their perimeter D. But when you have Amare and Dalembert able to block shots in the lane, perimeter D becomes less of a concern.
edit: Whoops, this was already mentioned. That said, Johnson is a big price to pay, and it definitely hurts their perimeter D. But when you have Amare and Dalembert able to block shots in the lane, perimeter D becomes less of a concern.
I'm not sure that the Suns need a "true center" the run and gun favors flexable players, and demands that who ever is playing the 5 be extreemly moble and able to shoot from out side the paint. Stoudemire and Voshkul both fit this tyle perfetcly, Im not saying that Dalembert wont play well in the system but givne the number of half court sets they play Im not sure he bring in that much over what they already have... he imporves the line up no doubt but not sure it will near the impact that a back up PG would have.
Problem is that no run and gun team is ever going to win a title. So I understand them making a move like that -- same thing Dallas finally realized. But the cost is just very high -- They've got 4 young studs taking a passes from Nash, and now it will be 3. Agree that Dalembert will be a fish out of water a bit. If they make that move, they might be built better for the postseason, but i could easily see their ridiculous scoring pace start to tail off.
bdouble013 said:
What I find interesting in this whole deal is JJ suddenly found it in him to play again. Guess we were right all along Brickie. 
Agree, and to further elaborate on Dalembert being a fish out of water, he can't shoot very well from the outside, but at the very least he is an extremely athletic center that can run the floor with the best of them, which will help in fit in with the Suns if the trade is made. I do think that giving up JJohnson to get him is a very steep price.
Personally, I don't have that big of a problem with what Jim Jackson did. He is a guy at the end of his career who was already out of basketball once. While we can all talk about how the honorable thing to do would have been to show up and play his heart out but the fact is that the Hornets are a lottery team with or without him. Unlike a young player, Jackson isn't going to improve his game with playing time, he's not going improve the team's long term outlook since he won't be there for more than another season, if he doesn't retire after this one and his presence will only take playing time from a guy like J.R. Smith anyway.
There is a reason why a lot of veteran guys consider retirement before reporting to a horrible team after a trade. Don't forget, Vlade threatened to retire rather than play for Charlotte. And that was a much better Hornet team and Divac had a lot more left in his tank than Jackson does.
There is a reason why a lot of veteran guys consider retirement before reporting to a horrible team after a trade. Don't forget, Vlade threatened to retire rather than play for Charlotte. And that was a much better Hornet team and Divac had a lot more left in his tank than Jackson does.
What exactly did Jackson have to play for? Not money, since he said he was willing to forfeit the remainder of his contract. Not wins, certainly. For what? A sense of obligation?
To whom should he be obligated? He signed a contract with the Rockets. And he was willing to suffer the consequences of not fufilling his contract and give up his salary for the year.
Athletes often get criticized for being more concerned with money than winning. And now when Jackson says that he doesn't care about money and just wants to play for a winning team he is criticized as well.
I guess I see this a little different when the player involved is nearing the end of his career. I jumped on guys like Eli Manning, Steve Francis, Kobe Bryant (if it was true in his case) and Dikembe Mutombo (remember that Kings fans?) but the difference is that those guys all had a long career to try an turn around a heretofore moribund franchise with their presence. The best that Jim Jackson could do is upgrade the team from having the 1st pick to maybe the 7th or 8th pick before packing it in and calling it a career.
I think the turning point for me in terms of viewing trades in the NBA was when the T'Wolves traded Doug West for Anthony Peeler. West was an original Timberwolf, a fan favorite and an aging veteran who had just emerged victorious from a publicized bout with alcoholism as the team was finally winning games. Kevin McHale went ahead and dealt him to another expansion team with no hope of success.
The bottom line espoused by players, owners, GMs and agents alike is that the NBA is a business. Each side is going to do exactly what helps THEM the most. If Jackson can sit out and force a trade to a better team, why SHOULDN'T he? That's what's in HIS best interest, which is what the NBA being a business is all about.
We may not like it, and I HATE it when it is a draft pick that does it, but I certainly understand in the case of an aging veteran who recognizes that it is his only alternative to finishing his career languishing for a lottery team.
To whom should he be obligated? He signed a contract with the Rockets. And he was willing to suffer the consequences of not fufilling his contract and give up his salary for the year.
Athletes often get criticized for being more concerned with money than winning. And now when Jackson says that he doesn't care about money and just wants to play for a winning team he is criticized as well.
I guess I see this a little different when the player involved is nearing the end of his career. I jumped on guys like Eli Manning, Steve Francis, Kobe Bryant (if it was true in his case) and Dikembe Mutombo (remember that Kings fans?) but the difference is that those guys all had a long career to try an turn around a heretofore moribund franchise with their presence. The best that Jim Jackson could do is upgrade the team from having the 1st pick to maybe the 7th or 8th pick before packing it in and calling it a career.
I think the turning point for me in terms of viewing trades in the NBA was when the T'Wolves traded Doug West for Anthony Peeler. West was an original Timberwolf, a fan favorite and an aging veteran who had just emerged victorious from a publicized bout with alcoholism as the team was finally winning games. Kevin McHale went ahead and dealt him to another expansion team with no hope of success.
The bottom line espoused by players, owners, GMs and agents alike is that the NBA is a business. Each side is going to do exactly what helps THEM the most. If Jackson can sit out and force a trade to a better team, why SHOULDN'T he? That's what's in HIS best interest, which is what the NBA being a business is all about.
We may not like it, and I HATE it when it is a draft pick that does it, but I certainly understand in the case of an aging veteran who recognizes that it is his only alternative to finishing his career languishing for a lottery team.
Great post, I agree completely.
Seems to me the Hornet's made out with the JJ trade for the 3 young players...what's the big deal?
This could very well be Jackson's last hurrah, and that he can choose where he plays (or doesn't play, in this case) seems in line with veteran status in the league these days. I'm all for honor and ethical conduct, but if retiring in leiu of not reporting is an option, maybe there should be a rule against "pretending" to retire, allthewhilst hoping for that all-elusive trade deal to get out of playing for a bottom feeding team.
Seems to me the Hornet's made out with the JJ trade for the 3 young players...what's the big deal?
This could very well be Jackson's last hurrah, and that he can choose where he plays (or doesn't play, in this case) seems in line with veteran status in the league these days. I'm all for honor and ethical conduct, but if retiring in leiu of not reporting is an option, maybe there should be a rule against "pretending" to retire, allthewhilst hoping for that all-elusive trade deal to get out of playing for a bottom feeding team.
I'm not sure what makes JJ a hypocrite here, if there is one thing JJ has made clear through out his career it is that he is not in the game for anyone but JJ. In some respects we could blame NO for trading FOR him. It's like the story of the woman who saved the snake only to be bit by it latter on... she knew he was a snake when she picked him up. Now before all the JJ fans get too riled up here, Im not saying he is a bad guy, or even that in some situations (Sac, Houston) that JJ is not able to be a productive member of team. But 10 teams in 12 years says a lot for guyof JJ's skills. One more team and he will have tied T Mass for the gypsy record. Looking at this and opting to take JJ espcialy without talking to JJ makes the Hornets stupid, and they are lucky that Pheonix just bailed them out.
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