Jimmy Butler? (Correct)

[twslam07]

Accidentally hit "enter" too soon on the other thread and I can't edit the poll so here it is again

The following deal would have to occur on DRAFT DAY when we are able to trade our 2017 1st round pick. For the sake of the trade, I'm going to assume we remain in our current draft position (#9) and that the lottery doesn't change the order.

Bull Get:
2017 1st Round Pick (#9)
2021 1st Round Pick (Unprotected)
Malachi Richardson
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Skal Labissiere
Willie Cauley-Stein
Georgios Papagiannis

Kings Get:
Jimmy Butler

Which team would say no?

 

[CelticsFan]

I say Chicago says no because in order to do this trade they would have to cut 4 players off of their roster

 

[CyKings]

I don't think Vlade would do that trade.

Butler also isn't the greatest leader as well. He's a good complement on the court but I can see Cousins and Butler not have good chemistry and clash a ton.

Both players on offense are at their best when they are in iso or have the ball in their hands and can dictate what happens next. I can see one of those two not accepting less touches. In summary, Butler has too much of an ego to pair with Cousins, I think it wouldn't be a great fit for two top 15 players.

George would be a perfect complement in my eyes to Cousins but that's a pipe dream.

 

[twslam07]

I say Chicago says no because in order to do this trade they would have to cut 4 players off of their roster

Why's that? They only have 8 guaranteed contracts next year: Grant, Valentine, Butler, McDermott, Zipser, Portis, Lopez, & CHI 2018. That's potentially 7 open roster spots. Even if Wade opts in and they extend a QO to Mirotic, they'd still have enough roster spots.

 

[CelticsFan]

Why's that? They only have 8 guaranteed contracts next year: Grant, Valentine, Butler, McDermott, Zipser, Portis, Lopez, & CHI 2018. That's potentially 7 open roster spots.

Sorry I assumed you were talking about a deal this season

 

[twslam07]

Sorry I assumed you were talking about a deal this season

No worries. Does it change your vote then?

 

[CelticsFan]

I would have to think long and hard about it. The goal is to be a playoff team. Jimmy and Cuz would be locked up, I think we would be able to find a third "star" that wanted to play with those guys. Yes we are giving up a lot but to get good players you have to give up something.

None of those guys we are giving up looks like a lock to be an all star to me.......push comes to shove I think I would do it

 

[hrdboild]

When you're talking about effectively a 7 for 1 swap, there's just no practical way this kind of deal can get made. For Sacramento, now we need to fill a roster with two max players and no rookie contracts. Butler and Cousins is a solid foundation but are they going to lead a team of D-League callups very far? What's your fallback if it doesn't work out? You're out to pasture for the next half decade or more with no young talent coming in. It's a dangerous position to be in. For Chicago, you're giving up your one bankable star for a whole team of question marks. Sure maybe they've got 7 chances to land a new Jimmy Butler but nobody they're getting in return is an elite prospect (with the possible exception of Labissiere). If you already have Cousins you can develop the kids into a supporting cast but who is carrying your team out of this group? It just seems to me like it doesn't accomplish enough for either team. If Chicago is re-building they want top 5 talent not half a roster of long-shots. If we're building a contender we can't trade away our last 5 (!!) first round picks and another 3 future picks (counting the 2019 pick we already owe Philly) and expect to recoup that much talent in free agency. I like Butler but I'm not sold on him as the answer for us to the point that I'm going to go this completely all-in on the gamble.

 

[twslam07]

When you're talking about effectively a 7 for 1 swap, there's just no practical way this kind of deal can get made. For Sacramento, now we need to fill a roster with two max players and no rookie contracts. Butler and Cousins is a solid foundation but are they going to lead a team of D-League callups very far? What's your fallback if it doesn't work out? You're out to pasture for the next half decade or more with no young talent coming in. It's a dangerous position to be in. For Chicago, you're giving up your one bankable star for a whole team of question marks. Sure maybe they've got 7 chances to land a new Jimmy Butler but nobody they're getting in return is an elite prospect (with the possible exception of Labissiere). If you already have Cousins you can develop the kids into a supporting cast but who is carrying your team out of this group? It just seems to me like it doesn't accomplish enough for either team. If Chicago is re-building they want top 5 talent not half a roster of long-shots. If we're building a contender we can't trade away our last 5 (!!) first round picks and another 3 future picks (counting the 2019 pick we already owe Philly) and expect to recoup that much talent in free agency. I like Butler but I'm not sold on him as the answer for us to the point that I'm going to go this completely all-in on the gamble.

All valid concerns.

I guess from my point of view, I'd probably toss Barnes into the deal as well. They have the roster spots and can choose to waive his expiring contract if they would like. If we waive Afflalo & Tolliver, that leaves us with $20.6 mil in cap space (assuming Gay opts in while he rehabs & factoring in Collison's cap hold). We could use that to resign Lawson & Casspi to two year deals and spend the remainder on some big man depth.

PG - Collison / Lawson
SG - Temple
SF - Butler / Gay
PF - Casspi
C - Cousins / Koufos

Then perhaps in the 2018 offseason, we can look to resign Koufos & Temple to big 1 year deals if they opt out. I'd even be willing to sign Gay to a 1 year deal. The reason being is that I'd want to setup our contracts to expire in the 2019 offseason (with the exception of Cousins & Butler) to give us max cap space in an effort to sign Bledsoe or Wall. Keeping guys like Koufos, Temple, Gay, Casspi, Collison, & Lawson signed through the end of the 2018-19 season would give us their bird rights. We'd more than likely have to give up bird rights on a couple of these players so the cap holds don't prevent us from signing a guy like Bledsoe or Wall, but we'd at least still maintain the flexibility to go over the cap to sign a lot of our own FAs while still adding a new one (Wall/Bledsoe). Wall/Bledsoe-Butler-Cousins would be a pretty strong big 3 and one that are all on the same time table (all of them are either 26 or 27 right now).

Probably a pipedream, but the combo of Cousins & Butler could be a great shot at becoming a great team, and it could even give Cousins' buddies a little more incentive to sign with us during the 2019 offseason.

 

[kingsboi]

with the Bulls front office in complete shambles, Butler could be attainable. However, I don't want the Kings to gut their roster at the expense of acquiring him, which is what it would take to pry him away from Chicago IMO.

 

[DC222]

Butler is a star. A bird in the hand...

 

[VF21]

Why do the Bulls do this?

 

[itzcoatl]

Kings do it in a heartbeat. Chicago could get better offers.

 

[King in England]

I went with both say no, but I think the value is pretty darn close. Just don't think a deal with so many players going one way would be considered in the NBA for some of the reasons mentioned above.

 

[pshn80]

A working team is 9 or 10 quality players. A single player, no matter his personal value, is not worth that many quality players. Nice to think about but no way.

 

[KingsFan80]

Accidentally hit "enter" too soon on the other thread and I can't edit the poll so here it is again

The following deal would have to occur on DRAFT DAY when we are able to trade our 2017 1st round pick. For the sake of the trade, I'm going to assume we remain in our current draft position (#9) and that the lottery doesn't change the order.

Bull Get:
2017 1st Round Pick (#9)
2021 1st Round Pick (Unprotected)
Malachi Richardson
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Skal Labissiere
Willie Cauley-Stein
Georgios Papagiannis

Kings Get:
Jimmy Butler

Which team would say no?

Do it in a heartbeat but no chance it happens. That is like a trade on NBA2k where you can stack a bunch of scrubs for a star player and the computer falls for it

 

[twslam07]

I so far disagree with 8 people that think Sac would say "no" to such a trade.

The goal is to find our cornerstones and then build around them. We're not going to land big name talent in FA with the current state of the team, so the hope is to either trade for a star or develop one. A Cousins/Butler combo suddenly makes us much more attractive in FA because players should be able to see the potential of that duo. It wouldn't be hard to sign mid-level, quality players around them, and there's always the off chance that we could get Bledsoe & Wall in the 2019 offseason to join that duo considering they are good friends with Cousins and that they might be on-board with the idea of a Wall/Bledsoe-Butler-Cousins trio.

I find it hard to believe that people would not be on board with bringing in an arguably top 10-15 player who is a similar age as Cousins.

 

[Sac.1989]

I enjoy it as a holdover to 2019 and wall/bledsloe who probably fit better with cousins.

If we could retain gay and key role players we'd be set on offense however all three are known for isolation plays and that is a key concern

 

[Big Cuz 15]

When you're talking about effectively a 7 for 1 swap, there's just no practical way this kind of deal can get made. For Sacramento, now we need to fill a roster with two max players and no rookie contracts. Butler and Cousins is a solid foundation but are they going to lead a team of D-League callups very far? What's your fallback if it doesn't work out? You're out to pasture for the next half decade or more with no young talent coming in. It's a dangerous position to be in. For Chicago, you're giving up your one bankable star for a whole team of question marks. Sure maybe they've got 7 chances to land a new Jimmy Butler but nobody they're getting in return is an elite prospect (with the possible exception of Labissiere). If you already have Cousins you can develop the kids into a supporting cast but who is carrying your team out of this group? It just seems to me like it doesn't accomplish enough for either team. If Chicago is re-building they want top 5 talent not half a roster of long-shots. If we're building a contender we can't trade away our last 5 (!!) first round picks and another 3 future picks (counting the 2019 pick we already owe Philly) and expect to recoup that much talent in free agency. I like Butler but I'm not sold on him as the answer for us to the point that I'm going to go this completely all-in on the gamble.

Billy King is that you?

 

[jcwkings]

That is way too much. Two first round picks plus WCS(who IS a lottery talent) plus a whole bunch of other young players?

 

[John Galt]

7 first rounders? I wouldn't.

 

[hrdboild]

Billy King is that you?

Nobody trades picks like Billy King! That Garnett/Pierce deal may go down as the worst trade in league history by the time you add up all the picks they stand to lose. And that doesn't even account for packaging an injured and ineffective Gerald Wallace in that deal after they already gave up a high lotto pick (which became Damian Lillard) to acquire him.

 

[miltonap]

Hell nah

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Nobody trades picks like Billy King! That Garnett/Pierce deal may go down as the worst trade in league history by the time you add up all the picks they stand to lose. And that doesn't even account for packaging an injured and ineffective Gerald Wallace in that deal after they already gave up a high lotto pick (which became Damian Lillard) to acquire him.

wow. thats just awful!

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Nobody trades picks like Billy King! That Garnett/Pierce deal may go down as the worst trade in league history by the time you add up all the picks they stand to lose. And that doesn't even account for packaging an injured and ineffective Gerald Wallace in that deal after they already gave up a high lotto pick (which became Damian Lillard) to acquire him.

oops, that was meant for the OP. i always get a chuckle reading those nba2k trades.

 

[ParniValjak]

Nobody trades picks like Billy King! That Garnett/Pierce deal may go down as the worst trade in league history by the time you add up all the picks they stand to lose. And that doesn't even account for packaging an injured and ineffective Gerald Wallace in that deal after they already gave up a high lotto pick (which became Damian Lillard) to acquire him.

To be fair to Billy King, I think his owner putting the pressure on there might have had more than a bit to do with it. Prokhorov has come out since then saying that he has learnt his lesson and his approach was wrong from the start. King was just trying to do what Prokhorov wanted done.

Its a bit like blaming Petrie for some of the picks in his later years when his body of work suggest that dude knows how to draft good, productive players, hell even star level talent.

 

[hrdboild]

To be fair to Billy King, I think his owner putting the pressure on there might have had more than a bit to do with it. Prokhorov has come out since then saying that he has learnt his lesson and his approach was wrong from the start. King was just trying to do what Prokhorov wanted done.

Its a bit like blaming Petrie for some of the picks in his later years when his body of work suggest that dude knows how to draft good, productive players, hell even star level talent.

I'd buy that argument if Billy King didn't already have priors. His GM resume with the Sixers and Nets is the stuff of nightmares. (Also, I may or may not still blame him for enabling the "flexible pieces" trade)

 

[Sac.1989]

More noise being made that butler could be moved during the draft process

We have depth at SG with young pieces and picks (once secured) who could be part of any deal.

People will cringe at the thought but these are the moves you need to explore to win division titles and beyond.

 

[hrdboild]

More noise being made that butler could be moved during the draft process

We have depth at SG with young pieces and picks (once secured) who could be part of any deal.

People will cringe at the thought but these are the moves you need to explore to win division titles and beyond.

I think this ship has sailed for us. He wants out of a bad situation in Chicago, I don't think he'll be happy leading a group of kids in Sacramento. He's got two years left on his contract and then a player option and he'll be looking for a team with championship aspirations at that point. Any young talent and/or draft picks we trade for him will be tough to replace. With Skal and Buddy looking like our two biggest building blocks we really should be looking at core players who are 25 and younger at this point.

 

[bajaden]

I think this ship has sailed for us. He wants out of a bad situation in Chicago, I don't think he'll be happy leading a group of kids in Sacramento. He's got two years left on his contract and then a player option and he'll be looking for a team with championship aspirations at that point. Any young talent and/or draft picks we trade for him will be tough to replace. With Skal and Buddy looking like our two biggest building blocks we really should be looking at core players who are 25 and younger at this point.

Well, Butler is only 27 yr's old and that's considered the age when a player is just entering his prime. He's making 18 mil next year, so they would have to take some salary back. Afflalo is a perfect piece if they're looking for some cap relief. Afflalo, Hield, and both our first round picks wouldn't be a bad offer. The question is, will he make us better than what we give up? He can play both SF and SG. Is he a difference maker. If so, then go after him. I can't answer that question.