Jimmer's defense and the concept of team sport

[tyreeeke]

Players who were labeled bad 'individual' defenders...(team defense is what wins titles)

Magic Johnson (He himself said he was)

Nash (Two time MVP)

Dirk (MVP, finals MVP, etc)

Tony Parker

Mike Bibby (your very own)

I could go on and on and on...

POINT BEING, defense is a team concept. Offense is a team concept. If someone has to cover for Jimmer if he is beaten defensively...SO WHAT. Jimmer has the skills to cover for the horrible offensive players on this team. This is a TEAM game. They cover him. He covers them. See how that works? Jimmer is a MUCH better offensive player than most of this roster and the team's weakness is...guess what...OFFENSE! Jimmer is a GREAT ball handler, contrary to the lies. I said GREAT ball handler. Jimmer is obviously a top 2 shooter on this team with MT. Jimmer is a GREAT passer. If Jimmer started and got 30+ minutes a game, I GUARANTEE this team would at least play .500 ball for the season.

 

[jcwkings]

The problem with that on THIS team is that we have no interior shot blockers. If quick gaurds get around Jimmer there will be little resistance at the rim. The combined perimeter defensive prowess of Johnson, and Evans and at times our 2 pg's has helped us defensively in these first 3 games.

 

[rainmaker]

 

[tyreeeke]

The problem with that on THIS team is that we have no interior shot blockers. If quick gaurds get around Jimmer there will be little resistance at the rim. The combined perimeter defensive prowess of Johnson, and Evans and at times our 2 pg's has helped us defensively in these first 3 games.

Dude, they're 0-3 because the offense as been awful. Putting Jimmer in may hurt the D a little at times, but it will more than pay dividends on the offensive end.

 

[tyreeeke]

That baby is laughing at the offense this team has displayed and the Jimmer naysayers who don't get it.

 

[Tetsujin]

Players who were labeled bad 'individual' defenders...(team defense is what wins titles)

Magic Johnson (He himself said he was)

Nash (Two time MVP)

Dirk (MVP, finals MVP, etc)

Tony Parker

Mike Bibby (your very own)

I could go on and on and on...

POINT BEING, defense is a team concept. Offense is a team concept. If someone has to cover for Jimmer if he is beaten defensively...SO WHAT. Jimmer has the skills to cover for the horrible offensive players on this team. This is a TEAM game. They cover him. He covers them. See how that works? Jimmer is a MUCH better offensive player than most of this roster and the team's weakness is...guess what...OFFENSE! Jimmer is a GREAT ball handler, contrary to the lies. I said GREAT ball handler. Jimmer is obviously a top 2 shooter on this team with MT. Jimmer is a GREAT passer. If Jimmer started and got 30+ minutes a game, I GUARANTEE this team would at least play .500 ball for the season.

Joe? Gavin? Is that you?

 

[Padrino]

That baby is laughing at the offense this team has displayed and the Jimmer naysayers who don't get it.

jimmer hawks are an entirely different breed that i will never understand. his collegiate success never had much chance of translating to the nba, and if there's something to "get," jimmer's rarely made a case for himself in the nba, with his unathletic, no-defense, no-handle, perennial tweener complexion. jimmer is not a great dribbler against nba defenses and, perhaps worst of all, the kid's a one-dimensional shooter who's had an awful lotta trouble shooting since he was drafted. personally, i consider myself a jimmerphobe. he has tremendously limited utility in the nba, and i'm one who is unafraid to say that i can't wait until he scrubs his way outta sacramento altogether (if only so he'll take his ra-ra squad of fans with him somewhere else). on a kings team with a guard rotation of tyreke evans, marcus thornton, aaron brooks, and isaiah thomas, jimmer simply doesn't fit. in such an overstuffed guard rotation, jimmer's the odd man out, and its not even close. in my estimation, he's the last man who should be called off the bench in the event of garbage time. well, maybe john salmons earns that distinction just by being john salmons, but i think i've sufficiently made my point. i hope jimmer finds some measure of success in the nba, but guards of his ilk with no position and little in the way of athleticism rarely do...

 

[Agent23]

Players who were labeled bad 'individual' defenders...(team defense is what wins titles)

Magic Johnson (He himself said he was)

Nash (Two time MVP)

Dirk (MVP, finals MVP, etc)

Tony Parker

Mike Bibby (your very own)

I could go on and on and on...

POINT BEING, defense is a team concept. Offense is a team concept. If someone has to cover for Jimmer if he is beaten defensively...SO WHAT. Jimmer has the skills to cover for the horrible offensive players on this team. This is a TEAM game. They cover him. He covers them. See how that works? Jimmer is a MUCH better offensive player than most of this roster and the team's weakness is...guess what...OFFENSE! Jimmer is a GREAT ball handler, contrary to the lies. I said GREAT ball handler. Jimmer is obviously a top 2 shooter on this team with MT. Jimmer is a GREAT passer. If Jimmer started and got 30+ minutes a game, I GUARANTEE this team would at least play .500 ball for the season.

Jimmer sucks. He can't dribble up the court with pressure without getting ripped. He's not athletic enough to create a shot for himself. He's one of the worst defensive liabilities I've ever seen in the NBA. The one one thing they need from him is spot up shooting and he can't even do that right. He can only get his shot off off the dribble but he can't get enough seperation from NBA defenders. Nice guy. Not fit for NBA basketball. At least Jj Reddick became a good shooter off the ball. That's the ONLY shot Jimmer has to make a career out of this.

 

[Mass]

So, are you trying to compare Jimmer with Magic, Nash,Dirk, Parker and Bibby?!? And did you just say he is a GREAT ball handler (not good, GREAT)? Have you ever watched a Jimmer's game after college? I don't even know what to say...

Best case scenario for Jimmer is Steve Kerr. Not Magic. Not Nash, Not TP. And I'm not even sure he can be a Steve Kerr kind of player.

Guys, why are we wasting our time talking about defense, rotations, Reke and Cousins? The only thing we need to do to play .500 ball for the season is giving Jimmer 30+ minutes per game! That's simple! Thanks Tyreeeke!

 

[Sac.1989]

JJ Redick is balling right now for orlando. Id take that right now if Jimmer could get to that level

 

[Gilles]

Problem is Reddick is 6'4" with solid build so he can check people in this League of 6'4"-6'5" SGs. He's a liability on D but not a massive one. More importantly that Reddick's opponents are SGs who don't handle the ball nearly as much as PGs. Reddick screws up, it's an occasional open shot. Fredette is beaten and defense have to shift because the player with the ball is open and it will happen every time because Fredette can only check Bibbys and Blakes, and those are so rare - everybody else will get around him every time.

 

[Bricklayer]

Being trolled by a fanboy of our 12th man is getting less amusing by the minute.

 

[mac]

WAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh and let me guess, the reason why Jimmer isn't putting up all star numbers, heck even playing like a solid rotation player is because he's being "black-balled" right?

 

[UK_King]

I keep hearing he's great at this he's great at that, but I'm yet to see this "greatness" anywhere.

If he was "great" he'd surely have dominated summer league, at least in a couple of the games.

 

[tyreeeke]

JJ Redick is balling right now for orlando. Id take that right now if Jimmer could get to that level

He's an absolute stud and contrary to the lies, some of them in this topic, Redick is WAY more than a spot up shooter coming off picks. Redick creates his own off the dribble. NBA myths/lies often spread by people who are biased and/or don't understand the game.

 

[tyreeeke]

WAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh and let me guess, the reason why Jimmer isn't putting up all star numbers, heck even playing like a solid rotation player is because he's being "black-balled" right?

I truly believe that, but that's just my opinion. I'm not always right, obviously.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Jimmer's ball-handling may be the worst of any player I've ever seen trying to play PG in the last decade. If someone can name me a PG that's struggles so much to get the ball up the court against any sort of pressure, and struggles to even hold onto the ball, I'll be impressed.

Jimmer has a couple things he can do, and he should eventually be able to carve out a place for himself in the NBA. But the OP is embarassing - how people come to follow one particular player is astonishing to me. And how they can ignore all the evidence, and make statements that are bordering on causing genuine worry, is even more mind-boggling.

 

[baller13]

First of all i would not say JJ redick is "ballin". He had become a decent role player but he will never be anything more despite being an absolute stud in college. And if you remember his first couple years he didn't play that much because he couldn't play defense, and that was on a team with Dwight Howard backing them up. How about Adam Morrison?? Great scorer in college but not so much in the NBA.

 

[mac]

Jimmer's ball-handling may be the worst of any player I've ever seen trying to play PG in the last decade. If someone can name me a PG that's struggles so much to get the ball up the court against any sort of pressure, and struggles to even hold onto the ball, I'll be impressed.

Jimmer has a couple things he can do, and he should eventually be able to carve out a place for himself in the NBA. But the OP is embarassing - how people come to follow one particular player is astonishing to me. And how they can ignore all the evidence, and make statements that are bordering on causing genuine worry, is even more mind-boggling.

I really think Jimmer should mold his game after Redick. Redick has carved a solid role for himself as a smart player who makes the right plays, doesn't get in the way of the offense, defends hard and keeps the defense honest with his outside shooting. I don't know if size will necessarily prevent Jimmer from taking on such a role (that moves him a little more off the ball), but I certainly think he has the skills and capability to reach that level. For all the knocks on his ability as a PG, Jimmer has shown that he has good court awareness and knows how to play smart basketball. The problem right now is that he lacks the ballhandling ability to fully run an offense. Having bigs that don't set good screens also doesn't help a guard who can't dribble very well.

I'm not sure I agree with the coaching staff's take on his development though. I don't think they should be telling him to play like he played in college and just be aggressive. That's what they told Evans and look how that's worked out. If you really want a guy to gain confidence and play aggressive you should run some good plays several times a game to get him comfortable in a certain role. It's like telling Chuck Hayes to go defend LBJ and be aggressive ... he can try, but at the end of the day if it's not something that he's used to and comfortable with it's not going to work.

 

[UK_King]

I think most agree if he's on the floor he should be off the ball and running off some screens, going round the world etc.

If we had him on the floor at SG with Tyreke at the point, his presence in the corner would open up driving lanes for reke.

even so long stretches of Jimmer will undoubtedly hurt you on D.

 

[tyreeeke]

First of all i would not say JJ redick is "ballin". He had become a decent role player but he will never be anything more despite being an absolute stud in college. And if you remember his first couple years he didn't play that much because he couldn't play defense, and that was on a team with Dwight Howard backing them up. How about Adam Morrison?? Great scorer in college but not so much in the NBA.

The "ballin" comment was considering his first two games this season without Dwight, while leading the Magic to 2-0. Before that, he has been a very solid role player and a good defender, despite the lies. Saying he can't defend is ignorance.

 

[funkykingston]

tyreeeke, did you watch a single minute of Jimmer's play in the summer league? No Evans, no Thornton, no Cousins, and most importantly, no Isiah Thomas. It was Jimmer's show and he got to play big minutes, have the ball in his hands and be the go-to guy on offense against marginal NBA talent.

If you watched any of those games you would have seen (1) Fredette struggle mightily to even bring the ball up court against moderate pressure (2) Fredette average about equal numbers of assists and turnovers (2) Fredette struggling to stay in front of his many defensively and (4) Fredette shoot 36% from the field and 22% from three. In essence he hit one three pointer per game while hoisting up 6 each contest.

Keith Smart is not holding Jimmer down. Jimmer is not being blackballed. Jimmer lost his minutes to a rookie drafted 53 spots after him in the draft because Thomas clearly outplayed him and continues to. I'd love to see Jimmer contribute positively to this team but why on Earth would Jimmer Fredette get big minutes and the "free reign" you're calling for in the NBA? Forget anything he did in college - what has Fredette done in the NBA to warrant playing ahead of Isiah Thomas, Aaron Brooks or Marcus Thornton?

I liked Jimmer a lot in college but I didn't think his game would translate to the NBA. And clearly he lacks the foot speed, ballhandling and passing ability to be a starting point guard. But I thought there was a chance he could play with Tyreke with Evans handling the ball primarily on offense and Jimmer stretching the defense with his shooting. We say a glimpse of that with Terrence Williams at the end of last season when Jimmer played some decent minutes. But Jimmer has to shoot better than he has to take the negative tradeoffs that come with giving him floor time.

Nash and Dirk might be poor defenders, but they are still better defensively than what we've seen of Jimmer so far but much more importantly they are flat out studs on the offensive end, something we have NOT seen even real glimpses of from Fredette on the NBA level.

Jimmer was phenomenal in college, but then again so was Adam Morrison. Whether Jimmer's career is more like Morrisons or closer to Eddie House or JJ Redick is yet to be determined. But the notion that he's a stud on this level is delusional. He's not. He's an undersized and slow footed tweener that has to readjust his game to have some level of success in the NBA. I hope he does, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[gunks]

Fredette is just who everyone thought he would be pre-draft, craptacular.

Will he get marginally better? Who knows? Who cares? Dog poo smells marginally better when it dries, but its still dog poo.

We should ship him out while he still has a bit of "great white hype" value. Otherwise we arnt getting anything but a 3rd round pick for the dude.

 

[DesertFox]

The comparisons to Redick are unfair... to Redick. JJ at least flashed shooting ability in his little spurts of PT.

He came into this league as a bad defender who was not expected to be a PG in any way, and turned himself into a decent defender and good enough passer/handler to be a true combo guard.

Jimmer's questions about playing PG were supposed to be about his scoring mentality, not an inability to dribble the ball past half-court. JJ was a SG through and through, but never looked half as bad as Jimmer does.

 

[baller13]

The "ballin" comment was considering his first two games this season without Dwight, while leading the Magic to 2-0. Before that, he has been a very solid role player and a good defender, despite the lies. Saying he can't defend is ignorance.

How about you actually try reading what i wrote. I said redick couldn't defend when he came in the league, which is absolutely true. It wasn't until he learned to play defense that he got on the court. If jimmer would learn to play D i don't think anybody on here would have an issue with jimmer getting minutes off the ball next to tyreke.

 

[funkykingston]

How about you actually try reading what i wrote. I said redick couldn't defend when he came in the league, which is absolutely true. It wasn't until he learned to play defense that he got on the court. If jimmer would learn to play D i don't think anybody on here would have an issue with jimmer getting minutes off the ball next to tyreke.

Well, that and hitting his open shots in the flow of the offense. It'd also be nice if he could handle the ball a bit to take pressure off Tyreke or whoever the other guard at the time is.

I think most of us believe Jimmer was drafted at least in part (perhaps in large part) because the front office/Maloofs thought he'd bring attention/ticket sales due to his high profile in college. But if I was to speculate on the on-court reasons for drafting him it would be because they thought he'd be a good running mate for Tyreke. And if he could do that he'd be playing. No, Jimmer hasn't had 50 starts and 30 minutes a night to establish himself but he hasn't earned that either. But he certainly has had a number of shots to establish a role or even vie for a starting spot and hasn't showed enough in those stretches to do so. And he hasn't this year either.

I think we were pretty much all hoping he'd really impress in summer league and show that he could be a factor for this team. And he didn't. I don't think this is a make or break season necessarily for Jimmer, but if he doesn't make a splash this year or next I don't think he'll ever be more than a fringe NBA player. And that wouldn't be Keith Smart's fault. It wouldn't even really be Jimmer's fault since we all know he puts in his work. It would just be the case of a guy whose college game didn't translate to the NBA.

We'll see.

 

[Hadlowe]

Jimmer's questions about playing PG were supposed to be about his scoring mentality, not an inability to dribble the ball past half-court.

Not that it makes a ton of difference, but the Kings in general handled presses poorly last season. I can count on one hand the number of full-court screens for any Kings point guard last season. One of the biggest problems before we switched to rebound and run small ball in the last third of the season was that moderate pressure on the ball delayed our play sets until we were down to the last 14 seconds of the shot clock. Yes, Jimmer struggled against press last year and against the Bobcats in preseason, largely because the team wasn't working press-break offense. After the Bobcats game, we started running a screener with him downcourt like any competent team in the league, and, surprise, he did fine.

Jimmer has enough problems with his game without having to exaggerate them.