its the curse of abdur-rahim

[Zyphen]

Shareef is a good player. We're just not collectively better with him. If he sat out a game and KT/Skinner played his minutes, we'd have the same record. Actually, that's exactly what happened last year after the Webber trade. What was our record afterwards? I think it was somewhere around .500

This is a great example of how proximity of stats doesn't mean proximity of player. Then we get these ridiculous comparisons to Brand and Webber. When Webb was with the Kings last year, he had 21.3/9.7/5.5 on 44.9% shooting in 36 minutes. At this point in the season, our record was 13-5. And that was still with the aging Doug Christie. Replace him with Bonzi and what do you think we'd be at now?

Webb's scoring is down in more minutes because he's playing with AI. Webb gets the shots he wants in limited sets and he gets less overall shots. He has to take a lot of crappy shots because they involve AI dribbling out the shot clock, trying to penetrate, failing, and then heaving it to someone for a desperation shot. If Webb only has to do that 1 time a game, that still accounts for 5% of lets say 20 shots (actually 18.8). Webb's high assists comes from the Princeton Offense, much like Shareef's assists are. You can't very well assist anyone if you don't have the ball to pass to them.

Webb playing 40 minutes means he's healthy but like any normal player, gives you diminishing returns at those minutes. This is why PER48 is worthless. If you cut his minutes down to 35, do you think his production will go down? If anything, it may go up because he'll have more energy to run his plays. On the other hand, I'm sure I can find some scrubs who's PER48 from playing 10 minutes a game are comparable to Lebron/Garnett/Mcgrady/etc... but I'll bet you a million bucks they'll get laughed off the court when they're given 30 minutes.

 

[Zyphen]

Anyways, I don't believe in pinning everything on any one player. And there are plenty of better candidates than Shareef if you're into that kind of thing.

The only complaint I have against him is his rebounding. I didn't really expect him to be a physical force and really intimidate guards and block the hell out of people. But his rebounding stinks. And not only that, he does a horrible job of boxing out. At least take your own man out of the deal and let a teammate get the board (*cough* Bonzi *cough*).

 

[Kings241]

I bolded the stuff that seems VERY, VERY, WRONG.

1. He was brought here to play decent defense?
Wow...just wow

2. He's passing like Webber... than how come the game we're playing looks hecka fugly and we're not winning?

Well these are things we can all blame on RA.

 

[Rowdyone]

I think it's rediculous to point a finger at SAR at all. Is he the best PF in the league...no. Is he a tad undersized compared to other PF's in the league...yes but he makes up for it offensively with quickness and leaping ability but gets abused by bigger PF's in the league defensively. Did we know this before signing him...yes. Is he better than what we had before obtaining him...uh, yep. Therefore, he made us a better team. Can he make Brad Miller, Mike Bibby and Peja better defenders...no. Our problems were here long before SAR arrived. To me, he and Bonzi are the only starters who bring it every night from an effort standpoint.

 

[AriesMar27]

at this point we would have been better off just keeping darius, but if we had a better bench reef wouldnt be a problem and we'd have a better record.....

but a laker fan friend of mine laughed when the kings signed him and told be that he was cursed..... but then again the only other player to be on a losing team like reef is brand but as you can see.... thats about to change....

if we could only trade for a better bench.... get rid of thomas and garcia, maybe hart to for a pointguard that can score.... unless peja can get his shot back.... cause the entire bench combining for 10 points isnt reefs fault....

 

[shaka zulu]

my friend who is a blazers fan told me before the season started, that the kings would fail because of reef'.....i didnt believe him....dont get me wrong, he is playing good, but im starting to believe it...he went to the blazers, a team who had made the playoffs i believe 22 years straight until he got there......his team was horrible in atlanta...and now look at the kings.....

I agreee

 

[Coach]

Gosh, I thought the Kings were failing because our bench stinks, our small forward is a wuss, and our transition defense is non-existent. Who knew the real reason was that our power forward (who is averaging 15 points, 7 rebounds, and is shooting 53% from the field) was cursed.

 

[kiparking]

If there is any curse on Shareef, it is on himself, not the team. It seems he just doesn't know how to pick a good team for himself(or maybe it is something else *cough* his agent *cough*).

Vancouver, he was drafted so didn't really have much say in it. But Atlanta? That team was horrible long before Shareef ever got to it, and had a lot of internal problems, not to mention ineffective coaching.

Portland was on a slide, too. The worst part was, though, that they were already heavy on the PF position, and didn't have much desire to utilize Reef. At all. Also, no good coach.

Now, with the Kings, they got fine players. But Adelman, despite his strength, just doesn't play the best system for Reef. Reef should be playing the role of bait, posting down low to draw a double team, so his teammates can penetrate and slach to the basket. Why he is wasting that by putting him out there, I'll never know. It's like making Bibby post up centers. It just isn't a smart play.

Now for his rebounding, I think the weak team defense has more to do with it than Reef. True, he is not a powerful man who can box out everyone for a rebound, but he can grab more than 7~9 rebounds easily. The thing is, our outside defense is not what it should be. People complain our inside defense, but most of the time it is the penetration by opponents that has been breaking down the defense. Brad and Reef have been doing a fine work against post plays by the opponents. But when the guards break inside, that's when everything goes awry.

Have you noticed that it is usually Reef who goes out to contest anyone coming inside? As an undersized PF like him, Reef needs to be in the boxout position to grab rebounds. But the penetration being allowed by our guards forces him to leave his place and out of the rebounding position. Last night was a good example. LeBron hasn't shot well, but he still had a field day driving inside, and each time either Reef or Miller, mostly Reef, had to jump in front of him and leave his man wide open.

Now, if I was Adelman, I would have played Miller, Reef, and Skinner together. That should boost our rebounds. But Adelman seemingly thinks that everyone on the court should fit into his system or else. There just isn't a place in his system for any garbage collector... and a team needs a garbageman in their offense. Ben Wallace isn't scoring with awesome post moves. Get my drift?

 

[Bricklayer]

Gosh, I thought the Kings were failing because our bench stinks, our small forward is a wuss, and our transition defense is non-existent. Who knew the real reason was that our power forward (who is averaging 15 points, 7 rebounds, and is shooting 53% from the field) was cursed.

People making excuses for Reef are missing the point that that 7 rebound (actually 6.8) (and 0.8blks) or whatever are TERRIBLE, problematic, lottery type numbers from a PF. He is the WORST rebounding starting PF in the league right now. The worst (check the stats if you do not beleive me). If people don't think that's a significant problem they are fooling themselves.

He's a good scorer, always has been. But the rebounding and interior defense, which at this point most everybody on the board acknowledges as huge issues for the Kings, are simply not there. And that makes Reef every bit as big a part of the problem as any other King. He's playing a power position, and giving us exactly none of the toughness and boardwork you NEED your power guys to give you unless you want to be 7-11.

 

[Coach]

People who focus only on Abdur Rahim's rebounding numbers and call that a "significant problem" are delusional. We did not acquire Abdur Rahim to be a rebounder. And in fact, his career average is 8 rebounds a game, only 1 more per game than he is averaging right now. You can hope and wish with all your might that he will turn into Charles Barkely once he puts on a Kings uniform, but it ain't gonna happen.

Instead, what he gives us is interior scoring, efficient shooting, adequate rebounding, and above average passing. He has been everything we thought he was going to be.

Our problems lie elsewhere. If you pretend that they don't, you are fooling yourself.

 

[kiparking]

Juwan Howard(Houston) 6.2rpg
Mike Dunleavy(GS) 3.9rpg
Jared Jeffries(Washington) 4.8rpg
and on.

 

[Bricklayer]

Juwan Howard(Houston) 6.2rpg
Mike Dunleavy(GS) 3.9rpg
Jared Jeffries(Washington) 4.8rpg
and on.

Fewer minutes and SFs, what are you talking about?

 

[Bricklayer]

People who focus only on Abdur Rahim's rebounding numbers and call that a "significant problem" are delusional. We did not acquire Abdur Rahim to be a rebounder. And in fact, his career average is 8 rebounds a game, only 1 more per game than he is averaging right now. You can hope and wish with all your might that he will turn into Charles Barkely once he puts on a Kings uniform, but it ain't gonna happen.

Instead, what he gives us is interior scoring, efficient shooting, adequate rebounding, and above average passing. He has been everything we thought he was going to be.

Our problems lie elsewhere. If you pretend that they don't, you are fooling yourself.

NO, in fact we DID acquire him to play POWER forward. Means that you MUST rebound, or you must be starting alongside one HELL of a stud to cover up your softness. If you power forward does not rebound or block shots, how the hell do you expect to compete in those areas? We are reduced to trying to have our OG save us. That's sad.

Its high time Sacto fans quit their silly love affairs with every nice, soft-spoken, soft, pretty scorer who comes through town and realize that there's far more to the game than that. Celebrating Reef while panning Peja, or vice versa, is hypocritical. Reef is every bit as weak on the glass as a PF as Peja is for a SF. They are both scorers, each in a way appropriate to their position. But they BOTH create all kinds of problems for you in other areas where the rest of the team has to cover for their soft play.

At this point per 48 our frontcourt stands at:

Thomas 11.4/per 48 = 50th
Miller 9.7/per 48 = 81st
Reef 9.5/per 48 = 85th

(only among qualifying players, if you take off the filters its KT 87th Brad 144th Reef 155th):

Reef is down there with the likes of Antoine Walker (84th) Boris Diaw (a guard last year) at 83rd, Brian Cook (noted softie (at 82nd), and is only marginally ahead of JKidd at 89th and Mo Evans at 92nd. That's not adequate. That's terrible. Combined with the rest of outr frontcourt, that's disaster.

Putting all of the blame for what has happened on Reef is ridiculous. Outside of maybe Bonzi, not one of these guys is doing what we hoped he would. But trying to entirely absolve him when his weaknesses just happen to exactly track wiht the team's weaknesses is also ridiculous. Quite obviously having a terrible rebounder and non-shotblocker at PF is going to be part fo the probelm for a team that is having trouble rebounding and can't shut down the lane.

 

[Zyphen]

Juwan Howard(Houston) 6.2rpg

Mike Dunleavy(GS) 3.9rpg

Jared Jeffries(Washington) 4.8rpg

and on.

Juwan Howard is on a time share with Stromile Swift. Brick probably should have said starting PFs averaging over 30 minutes a game.



Troy Murphy is starting PF on GS.



Antawn Jamison is starting PF on Washington.



I think Shareef is probably the 2nd best King right now, for us, behind Bonzi (doesn't say much though, just that we suck). His rebounding IS a problem. Just one of many and probably not even our biggest one. Who's claiming that though? He started the season off well and Reef homers started making these exorbitant claims about his boarding skills. Where are they now?



After the: 8, 9, 12, 5, 7, 9, 13 start



He's: 3, 7, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 5, 3, 4, 4



1 board off his career average IS significant in and of itself. He's not just grabbing one less board in A game, he's grabbing one less EVERY game. But it doesn't stop there. He's also an inconsistent rebounder, which his average doesn't show. I'd take a 8,7,10,11,9,9 stat line over 10, 3, 14, 6, 15, 6 any day. Why? Because a win is a win. A crap team can have the same stats as a good team if the crap team loads up on blowouts (win or lose) and the good team wins consistently, but on a smaller margin. Winning consistently means having consistent players. Reef is also in danger of becoming consistently bad. Except for that 8,9 spurt, his last 11 games have been horrible.

 

[nbrans]

Reef's inability to board, particularly in the last five games, is utterly baffling, even for someone who has admittedly been just an average to below-average rebounder for his career. Particularly with the ever-growing rebounding differential and Miller's similar inability to grab a board it's really a problem.

It really seems like Reef has slow reaction skills or something. He just doesn't react quickly to the ball. I don't question his effort because he has always showed a great deal of hustle and intensity, and his defense has been good. Last night he did an admirable job rotating out on Lebron when Peja/Bonzi were screened. So what did Cleveland do? Attack the side Miller was on. He also does a fine job of getting in position, even if 7'2" centers can simply reach over his head. So if it's not a lack of hustle, what is it? Who knows.

But even with that glaring problem he's been one of the few bright spots for the Kings this season. He's been the only player to consistently bring an offensive game, his defense has been fine, and with one or two exceptions he really hasn't had an off night. He's not a savior, he's not a defensive stopper, he's not a shotblocker. I don't know anyone who had those expectations for him. But for someone who was brought in to be the fourth option on offense, he's been playing a lot like a first.

The fact is that every player on the Kings have weaknesses, and while SAR's rebounding problem is serious I'd hardly blame him for the poor start.

 

[Wuster]

There have been rumors of a "curse" that follows SAR. There are also rumors about Big Foot. Take either or both for what you think they're worth.

Curse... what a crock of ****.

 

[tradepeja]

i dont know if this is a bonafide sports curse, but they do exist

i mean c'mon, the red sox (until 2004), getting on the cover of SI, the cubs, and how about the Kings missing all those free throws in game 7?

this SAR curse does sound like a sham, but its interesting how he's never been on a winning team, and now has been on 2 teams that were better before he got there

 

[kingsfan52miller]

wow this thread is crazy

 

[kiparking]

this SAR curse does sound like a sham, but its interesting how he's never been on a winning team, and now has been on 2 teams that were better before he got there

I don't know which team you are talking about. Vancouver and Atlanta were as bad as ever way before SAR got there. Portland was already in decline. Reef just happened to get there. With the Kings, Adelman was already calling this season "a work in progress," which would be true with or without SAR.

IMO, the curse is not on SAR but it's his agent himself. Get a fine deal with the winning team, geez! Somehow Reef always end up with a team building, or in a transition. Can anyone really tell me the Kings were not already stepping into transition last year?

 

[Coach]

It is simply illogical to complain about Abdur-Rahim being a soft-spoken, finesse type player when he has always been that type of player. His abilities are, and have always been, scoring from the post, pulling down 7-8 boards, and hitting his free throws. To complain about him not being a enforcer-type banger is ridiculous -- he has never been a banger.

Thus, to place any blame at all on him make little sense. He arguably is our MVP. If you are frustrated by his "soft" play or below average rebounding blame the people who went out and acquired that type of player for our team. Don't blame the player for being who he is.

 

[Londonking]

wow this thread is crazy

I think its a bit worse than crazy. I think its warped. IMHO its utter rubbish.

 

[BMiller52]

It is simply illogical to complain about Abdur-Rahim being a soft-spoken, finesse type player when he has always been that type of player. His abilities are, and have always been, scoring from the post, pulling down 7-8 boards, and hitting his free throws. To complain about him not being a enforcer-type banger is ridiculous -- he has never been a banger.

Thus, to place any blame at all on him make little sense. He arguably is our MVP. If you are frustrated by his "soft" play or below average rebounding blame the people who went out and acquired that type of player for our team. Don't blame the player for being who he is.

Wow...wow...wow...wow

You forgot a man named bonzi wells who's done more than SAR has for us this season... If you wanna talk about who's played the best talk about bonzi...

 

[Warhawk]

Can we knock it off with the curse talk and get back to reality? Please?

 

[Wuster]

i dont know if this is a bonafide sports curse, but they do exist

i mean c'mon, the red sox (until 2004), getting on the cover of SI, the cubs, and how about the Kings missing all those free throws in game 7?

this SAR curse does sound like a sham, but its interesting how he's never been on a winning team, and now has been on 2 teams that were better before he got there

Oh my, get therapy.

 

[Bballkingsrock]

The curse of Reef? If you are seeing him play, it ain't his fault OR a curse that someone made up! It is the Kings team game!

 

[A1337]

as a 1 on 1 player shareef is doing great. in terms of team play he hasn't done much at all (YET) i don't think you can just hop from a "inside out " team to a "princeten O " over night. over 20 games you would think you could adjust. he is like peja in that once he gets the ball he doesn't look to pass it enough.

all in all i think he is playing with effort. and that i like. a pt number doesn't really help. Tmac was dropping 50's and loosing. when kobe was getting 40 a game but loosing and ball hoggin no one was saying how great of a team player he was. i fear shareef is a better 1 on 1 player then a team baller. we need team ballers.

i dunno. i like beliving in curses so i'll go along with it

 

[kingsfan916]

Oh WOW! A curse. When is the Brad Miller curse gonna come? What about Peja's Curse?Lol What a piece of crap

 

[kingsfan52miller]

Oh WOW! A curse. When is the Brad Miller curse gonna come? What about Peja's Curse?Lol What a piece of crap

Give the board a few more days

 

[KiNgMyC]

Personally this "curse" thing is stupid but you guys need to stop complaining about the thread. SAR and curse is not new, it has been discuss before in other forums and analysts. If any of you guys read columns by Bill "Sports Guy" Simmons, he wrote something along the lines that if SAR buy google stocks, it'll plummet down.

 

[Ekarin_SM]

y'all are being too serious... SAR's curse also bring us gold jerseys. however, this curse can be undone by enlightening mr. adelman; and he shalt stand before the Kings, slap himself, and slap the crap out of everyone in the face (well, maybe except for Bonzi ).