IT vs Kyrie Irving. bballbreakdown
- Thread starter JasonThompsonFan
- Start date
Livinthedream
All-Star
First of all, the title of the video is in the form of a question. He put the information out there to be debated.
Second, which stats did he cherry pick or manipulate?
The reason why IT is a good comparison in this video is that IT doesn't lack any of the intangibles that Kyrie may have. IT has leadership ability, charisma, drive and confidence. Problem with any comparison to MJ is that only the elite can begin to approach his intangibles.
I get the feeling that if IT put up the same exact numbers, but was 6'3 and from a Duke or UNC program, we wouldn't be having this debate.
Second, which stats did he cherry pick or manipulate?
The reason why IT is a good comparison in this video is that IT doesn't lack any of the intangibles that Kyrie may have. IT has leadership ability, charisma, drive and confidence. Problem with any comparison to MJ is that only the elite can begin to approach his intangibles.
I get the feeling that if IT put up the same exact numbers, but was 6'3 and from a Duke or UNC program, we wouldn't be having this debate.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Well, that's one obvious issue with statements like this video are attempting to make and one we went over repeatedly with Reke and comparing a few other players to him. The stats don't take into account game plans against or defensive focus on an individual. Reke was regularly heavily game planned for, often with multiple defenders shading him and attempting to cut off options. Support players take advantage of those situations. Well, the good ones do. Kyrie faces the same thing, constant focus of opposing defenses and being heavily game planned for.
A guy like IT is not and takes advantage of the attention and focus on others, as do many support players. And that's not a knock, it's the reality. It's a bit different when the opponent's top defensive player is charged with locking you up night after night and the help defense is geared towards cutting off your options in comparison to attacking off the attention others receive.
Last edited:
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Which is why I really hope that the new trend of "data analysis" in this new Kings organization is always somewhat leveled off with good old fashioned common sense and real world application.
IT is a very good player though if you give him enough shots to produce. Still too many guys on the team you could say the same thing about though.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
One good thing is after reading some of the comments, people like IT more now. 
uolj
Starter
It's not happening because he'll be on the bench while Irving scores 40 on Vasquez.
It's not about relying on stats too much (even the stats in the video show Irving is better). It's about poor logic, which can happen when using stats, eyeballs or crystal balls.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Well put.
Gary
All-Star
Even to a "stats guy" who constantly uses them to try to prove his arguments? Say it isn't so.
Anyway, the video had nothing to do with what people were complaining about.
No I really don't. Listen to the gosh darned video. Some stuff that stood out
-The guy clearly recognizes Kyrie's star talent. He said it several times throughout the video. He also said several times throughout the video that IT deserved more attention for the season he had than he got. Which is also true.
-He addresses IT's MPG discrepancy. I've long said Per 36 is stupid and continue to do so here. Although, we're now on year 2 of IT producing at essentially the same rate in 25 MPG. So it's logical to say he can continue his career production at 35+ MPG or so. Which, is pretty darn good.
-He doesn't address the USG rate difference between the 2. This is fairly important when attempting to draw a comparison and probably the biggest mistake with the content of the video. Even so, IT's USG rate was not pedestrian whatsoever. His 23% grades out around being a #2 or #3 option type guy.
- IT got Boogie the ball far more than anyone else on the team. No one else even came close. The difference between him and the other PG's on the team is especially disturbing, considering he didn't start for 25 games.
Again, this is meant as a "props" video for IT, an unknown to a lot of the NBA fanbase by giving an in-depth statistical look between him to as he said the "heir apparent" to the PG position, Kyrie Irving. Stats can be construed the wrong way if you construe them the wrong way. Heck, the numbers he displayed showed us Kyrie was still a superior player. Their is some points wrong with the video, but the general point was very clear:
IT is a very good scorer with a wide variety of moves, very efficient, is an effective spot-up shooter, doesn't turn the ball over and was seemingly the only guy interested in getting the ball to our franchise player.
Last edited:
Something else to consider. What is rule 101 of reporting for any media outlet? Draw your audience continue to read (or listen) to your story past the first few seconds of them viewing your piece. For instance, studies have been done on Newspapers and Magazine articles that the average person will read 1 sentence before moving on to reading something else.
How many people would click on that video if the title was "Is IT better than we think?" He has almost 40k views in 3 days. I've seen it posted on several sports forums that I visit.
How many people would click on that video if the title was "Is IT better than we think?" He has almost 40k views in 3 days. I've seen it posted on several sports forums that I visit.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Absolutely 100% correct. Well said! Who ever the best perimeter defender was on the other team was assigned to Tyreke, which helped IT. Stats are what they are. One measuring stick among'st many.
Usage. Typically measured as something like (shots+assists+TOs)/team possessions
Livinthedream
All-Star
And even more stats will be analyzed.....thought that is what everyone wanted. Or do we want Petrie back?
Rob McAllister @Rob_McAllister
Kings have installed cameras in Sleep Train to track every player movement."It's going to give us data that has never been available."-Vivek
10:23 AM - 25 Sep 2013
As others have said in so many words, you can't rely on stats alone. What the stats do is help people who are responsible for making decisions break through some of their biases. The media, ESPN, blogs, opinion columns all tell us that Kyrie is a star and IT is a backup at best. But when you lay the numbers out there, it forces you to take a closer look to make sure your eyeball test wasn't lying to you. Kyrie is better than IT, but maybe the gap isn't as great as some would like to believe.
Looks like these cameras in Arco will be the new eyeballs fore the eyeball test. NBA 3.0
Rob McAllister @Rob_McAllister
Kings have installed cameras in Sleep Train to track every player movement."It's going to give us data that has never been available."-Vivek
10:23 AM - 25 Sep 2013
As others have said in so many words, you can't rely on stats alone. What the stats do is help people who are responsible for making decisions break through some of their biases. The media, ESPN, blogs, opinion columns all tell us that Kyrie is a star and IT is a backup at best. But when you lay the numbers out there, it forces you to take a closer look to make sure your eyeball test wasn't lying to you. Kyrie is better than IT, but maybe the gap isn't as great as some would like to believe.
Looks like these cameras in Arco will be the new eyeballs fore the eyeball test. NBA 3.0
Did you miss that they are putting the cameras in EVERY arena this year? This isn't Sacramento-specific.
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...tats-llc-cameras-in-every-arena-in-the-league
and:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9639224/nba-install-motion-tracking-cameras-every-arena
From this thread (and others as well):
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/all-teams-to-get-the-stats-llc-cameras.53571/
Livinthedream
All-Star
Dang. I scanned over the threads and missed it. Stopped short of doing a search.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Locked
- Poll