It breaks my heart a little but...

[kingsfan916]

after one game?

yea ALL of 06-07 season?

 

[SacTownKid]

Co-sign.

 

[bloom]

I found this on ESPN, thought it was interesting.

Sacramento Kings

Nobody I have talked to, anywhere in the NBA, thinks Sacramento plans to keep both Mike Bibby and Ron Artest for the long haul. The word is that they'd rather build around Kevin Martin, with players like John Salmons, Francisco Garcia, and Spencer Hawes in support. Both Bibby and Artest are free agents in the summer of 2010, so if you don't want them to walk for free, they should be traded now or next summer -- or else you risk selling at fire sale prices. Plenty of teams need point guards at the moment, so Bibby might be the first to go.

source: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-29-51/Trade-Talk--Ten-Teams-to-Watch.html

 

[Kingster]

A new blog entry has been added:

It breaks my heart a little but...

I don't want Mike Bibby (or Ron Artest) back. I will always remember the good times with Bibby BUT what I saw tonight was so reminiscent of "The Year of the Suckage" that I couldn't even finish the PBP.

Reggie Theus and the "scrubs" have done wonders this year. They've put excitement and energy back into Arco and the fans. They've given us heart and hustle and they've really put it all out there on the court.

Tonight, however, was ugly - and I don't want to see any more of it. Sam Amick quoted Brad as saying something I thought was not only truthful but almost scary if you think about what happened when Webber came back. Miller said that the team we saw beat the Mavericks had been playing almost the whole time without them (meaning Bibby and Artest, I think) and building a bond together. And I think we loved seeing the revitalized Miller, along with an incredibly improved Salmons, a Garcia who could take your breath away OR give you a heart attack (or both), a defensive force off the bench in Dahntay Jones, the pure point guard play of Beno Udrih and the potential of Spencer and even Justin Williams.

I want to see more of that team, the one Brad is talking about. I do NOT want to sit through three months of what I saw tonight. Been there, done that. Read the box, saw the movie, but passed on the t-shirt. And I'm passing on a replay of TYOTS. It was horrible the first time and there's no way we - the Kings fans - can or should be expected to sit through it again.

Wow. You're coming over to the dark side. Nice to have you on board the "get rid of Bibby bandwagon." Leaving aside the fact that Bibby doesn't fit with the team, I think Jones and Douby are more entertaining than Bibby. And maybe that's what is going to finally make the deal - if entertainment is what it's all about because it fills the seats and the Maloof bank, and Bibby isn't entertaining enough, then Petrie finally makes the deal.

 

[CruzDude]

The RonRon and Bibby thing breaks my heart too. I had a nightmarish dream throwback to the same thing happening when CWebb came back from his big injury, started and obviously dragged the really good team down to his level. Everyone deferred to him and it didn't work.

Bibby and Martin are a good match but not with RonRon as the 3rd. Doesn't work enough. RonRon and Martin with out Bibby and Beno leading the way works too. But the best combo is Beno & Martin, Salmons & Mikki and Brad. Can that combo get us to the playoff this year? Maybe. With a piece or two to help.

But keeping both Bibbs and RonRon won't work. Nice pieces but don't think RonRon can fill the major support role we need out of him, defense, defense, and banging as a 3. The 3 needs to be a scorer but his way of doing that seems to reduce the capability of the main scorers, Bibby, Martin and now Salmons.

 

[AyeCarly]

... But the best combo is Beno & Martin, Salmons & Mikki and Brad. Can that combo get us to the playoff this year? Maybe. With a piece or two to help. ...

That team wouldn't have a problem on offense but would on defense. Not enough people on this site stress the importance of defense. That's where Mikki and Brad are liablilities, especially Mikki. He's too skinny to defend in the post and doesn't rebound well for his height. He should be backup if anything. That's why trading Bibby or even Artest for a more effective defending/rebounding PF is extremely important. I would start Justin over this guy based on his defense and rebounding. We really wouldn't need offense from Justin with Martin, Salmons and Beno being able to create their own shots and occasionally draw double teams. Besides he could putback dunk as well as Mikki if he tries, which is all Mikki does well besides take charges and yell at the ceiling, and Justin's shotblocking ability overrides that skill.

 

[VF21]

Actually, while Justin has at times shown the potential to "putback and dunk as well as Mikki if he tries," the problem is IMHO that he just doesn't get it. Don't get me wrong; I like Justin Williams and he's fun to watch. But, having said that, I think we always need to remember the length and breadth of Justin's basketball acumen. Until we can find a way to instill in him the "See ball and either a)swat ball or b)dunk ball" concept to the point where it's totally reflexive I don't think he's ready for the role. And people need to give credit to Mikki for standing in the lane and taking that charge. I personally LIKE to see one of our players actually making good use of the 6 fouls they're given every game. Much better than the matador approach so many of our other players seem to prefer.

 

[Warhawk]

And people need to give credit to Mikki for standing in the lane and taking that charge. I personally LIKE to see one of our players actually making good use of the 6 fouls they're given every game. Much better than the matador approach so many of our other players seem to prefer.

I really have to agree with this. I like that he gets in there to draw charges. And the fouls are there for a reason. They are a tool. Put them to good use!

 

['89 Kings Fan]

And people need to give credit to Mikki for standing in the lane and taking that charge. I personally LIKE to see one of our players actually making good use of the 6 fouls they're given every game. Much better than the matador approach so many of our other players seem to prefer.

This is not a knock on Mikki but he had Brad are in the leaders in the league in fouls and I think it stems from the fouls they get showing on Perimeter players. Obviously this is a coaching decision since Justin and Spence do it as well. However this seems to always leave someone open under the basket or a wide open 3. It seems to have about a 1-30 chance of succeeding.

Also Mikki seems to be a foul magnate because he is so skinny. Players have a hard time going around Ron because he is so wide. Mikki is barely a pole when guarding the lane. Not sure what we can do about that besides actually stopping penetration with our guards.

Lastly about Justin He seems to do better in a free form offense like the end of last year when he is the only big man or playing with Brad. I wish we would play Justin/Brad and Mikki/Spencer since those duos seem to compliment each other better.

 

[Superman]

Mike would be much better suited for a team with a strong frontcourt such as what we had in the Webber/Divac days. The Kings are better suited, at least at this moment in time, with a Udrih-type point guard who does an excellent job of distributing the ball.

Right. The only way we can keep Mike around is if we get a real big man that he can play off of, the way he and Chris worked together back in the day. Other than that, we need to let him keep scoring 20 a game, and then move him at the deadline.

 

[chelle]

I expect Mike to be traded by the deadline and sadly, I must admit that is will be better for both him and the team. It does not mean that I like it, however. I would still like to have Artest traded before Bibby, but I doubt it will happen. That being said, I think that I need to give them both a few more games before I can say that I do not want them back. Mike has not played all season and even Artest has been been out long enough to earn a couple of games to adjust. If I thought we had a chance to make the playoffs this year, I might be upset that they were playing. Having them play now ups the trade value, so I am ok with it. I still have to repeat the it will be a sad day form me when Bibby is gone.

 

[VF21]

The "now" fan in me wants to retract this comment after tonight's game ... I guess that's the emotional part of being a fan. A good win erases logic right out of your mind, especially if you can convince yourself it was "fuzzy logic" to begin with.

But I've never been known for my logical approach to the Kings. It's always been ruled by my heart and I guess that is still true. For tonight, I celebrate the win. I still, however, desperately want to see Artest gone. Bibby I could handle keeping around but Artest is gonna tear our hearts out either by keeping us from progressing OR by simply walking at the end of the year when he exercises his option.

 

[juicij36]

Bibby I could handle keeping around

Yes!
You're coming around...

 

[Showtime]

I really can't comment on the entire game last night, because I was busy doing something else and only caught parts of the 3rd and 4th, however, from what I saw: Beno I still like better on the defensive end, and Ron was almost shooting the team out of the game late. If one or two of those 3's didn't go down, game over. I don't get why he thinks he's Peja.

 

[NewArena]

I really can't comment on the entire game last night, because I was busy doing something else and only caught parts of the 3rd and 4th, however, from what I saw: Beno I still like better on the defensive end, and Ron was almost shooting the team out of the game late. If one or two of those 3's didn't go down, game over. I don't get why he thinks he's Peja.

Oh please, we all know peja wouldnt have hit one shot in that fourth quarter.

 

[VF21]

That's simply not true, unfair and unnecessary IMHO. Peja Stojakovic was a fantastic shooter. The team grew away from the type of game he's best suited for, however. Once Vlade was gone, it became harder for Peja to find his game. The nagging back problems didn't help, either.

I don't think we need to rewrite history and make Peja sound like someone who was never any good.

 

[Heuge]

Oh please, we all know peja wouldnt have hit one shot in that fourth quarter.

lol. sad but true. The best shooter from the 1st to 3rd quarters during non-pivotal games ever. I'd love to see the stat breakdown on that.

 

[VF21]

Note: If this is going to turn into a tired rehash of Peja's strengths and weaknesses, I'm going to spin that part off into a separate thread. I know, having lived through all the Peja rhetoric the first time around, that stuff can go on eternally...

 

[Heuge]

Note: If this is going to turn into a tired rehash of Peja's strengths and weaknesses, I'm going to spin that part off into a separate thread. I know, having lived through all the Peja rhetoric the first time around, that stuff can go on eternally...

whoops, sorry. I remember...now back to the subject at hand...I would love to see Ron go for some sort of big.

 

[ParniValjak]

They both need to go! Simple as that. Neither of them are part of the future for this team.

Artest will leave us this summer so we need to get as much for him as we can get. I would rather get some late first round pick or a youngster for Artest than see him walk for nothing and I sure as hell don't want us extending his contract.

Bibby has been a key part of this team when we were good. We have moved on and its time for Mike to do the same. Get some kids, expiring contracts and picks for both of them and wish them all the best.

 

[Glenn]

They both need to go! Simple as that. Neither of them are part of the future for this team.

Artest will leave us this summer so we need to get as much for him as we can get. I would rather get some late first round pick or a youngster for Artest than see him walk for nothing and I sure as hell don't want us extending his contract.

Bibby has been a key part of this team when we were good. We have moved on and its time for Mike to do the same. Get some kids, expiring contracts and picks for both of them and wish them all the best.

Given the certainty that Artest will leave, why would any team want him?

It's my opinion he won't leave but let's go with your surety.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Mike is not the problem. IMO, our 2/3 logjam MUST be resolved. This team was actually fun to watch with Salmons as our starting 3, and I really do believe that life without Ron Artest will be better for the Sacramento Kings from now on out.

The best reply in this thread. This is the truth no matter how hard you spin it. Bibby is NOT the problem, Bibby is coachable. Artest is a loose cannon and not very coachable. Ask Carlisle....

 

[fnordius]

Given the certainty that Artest will leave, why would any team want him?

It's my opinion he won't leave but let's go with your surety.

Well, Ron has said that he wants a title, and I don't think that even he is crazy enough to believe that the best place to shoot for one is in Sac. We won't get a very good draft pick sending him to an actual contender, but they are the teams who are going to be most motivated to take him, both on the chance that he will help them get one this year, and also for the future. Boston doesn't need any help, and Detroit is disqualified for other reasons, so we may be stuck trading him to a WC competitor, but we procrastinated long enough that we'll have to take what we can still get.

 

[Superman]

The best reply in this thread. This is the truth no matter how hard you spin it. Bibby is NOT the problem, Bibby is coachable. Artest is a loose cannon and not very coachable. Ask Carlisle....

I don't think Bibby is a problem with the way the team plays, except that he's a liability on the defensive end of the court.

But when you look at how much money he's making, and the fact that his contract is getting ready to end pretty soon means that we can either just let him fall off the books, or we can try to use him to bring back some talent or draft picks. Or we can package Kenny Thomas with him and shed some serious salary right now.

So if we want to use Beno going forward and build on our youth, then we should go ahead and move Mike for whatever we can while he has some value.

 

[BMiller52]

The best reply in this thread. This is the truth no matter how hard you spin it. Bibby is NOT the problem, Bibby is coachable. Artest is a loose cannon and not very coachable. Ask Carlisle....

Anyone who thinks getting rid of Artest will instantly make us a good team is insane. They're both problems. Bibby is stopping us from rebuilding so he should go, it's as simple as that.

 

[VF21]

Homer update:

After watching two more games, I have to admit I agree with those who say moving Ron Artest MUST be the first priority. Mike and Beno seem to be developing an interesting dynamic. Artest, on the other hand, is not only stifling the offense he's creating havoc every time he's on the court. A few good plays do not negate all the bad decisions he's making. And it certainly appears as though Salmons and Garcia are suffering since his return.

 

[Heuge]

Homer update:

After watching two more games, I have to admit I agree with those who say moving Ron Artest MUST be the first priority. Mike and Beno seem to be developing an interesting dynamic. Artest, on the other hand, is not only stifling the offense he's creating havoc every time he's on the court. A few good plays do not negate all the bad decisions he's making. And it certainly appears as though Salmons and Garcia are suffering since his return.

I think I agree. Offensively he can stifle everything. He has pretty nice on defense tonight. ::side note:: Bibby was terrible defensively tonight.

 

[NewArena]

Homer update:

After watching two more games, I have to admit I agree with those who say moving Ron Artest MUST be the first priority. Mike and Beno seem to be developing an interesting dynamic. Artest, on the other hand, is not only stifling the offense he's creating havoc every time he's on the court. A few good plays do not negate all the bad decisions he's making. And it certainly appears as though Salmons and Garcia are suffering since his return.

Well he wasnt making as many poor decisions at all in the first half of the season before he got hurt. I think he will get it together as far as his recent selfishness goes. Salmons has played minutes without ron and has just played flat out poor, Artest is a starter and much better than Garcia and Salmons so of course their production/minutes will decrease.

The point is, the decrease shouldnt be this significant.

 

[Gary]

I dunno what the problem is, or why Geoff can't seem to move Artest. He is obviously a problem, and does not fit well with this team. Those last few plays in the 4th quarter when Artest turned it over, and took 2 bad shots in all in a row pretty much made me want to strangle him through the TV. He is not the 1st option. He is not the 2nd option. The ball should not be in his hands at the end of games.

Something that has totally made me happy is thinking about the rotation of our SF/SG/PGs post Artest (if we move him). It's seriously probably one of the top 3 in the league.

Do you know how many options we have with Bibby, Beno, Martin, Garcia, and Salmons?

Bibby/Beno/Martin in a small lineup
Beno/Garcia/Salmons in a defensive lineup
Bibby/Martin/Salmons in a normal lineup
Garcia/Martin/Salmons in a larger lineup

There are more options w/ those five players than I can shake a stick at. Plus all of those lineups can score the ball as well as specialize in whatever lineup Theus chooses. All five players are double digit scorers who can go off in any given game.

Plus we can guarantee w/ a five player rotation that all five will get decent playing time. 35-40 minutes for Martin, 30-35 minutes for Bibby, 25-30 minutes for Salmons, 20-25 minutes for Garcia, 25-30 minutes for Beno.

Of course you cannot play them all the max amnt of minutes I listed, but if it falls somewhere between the times I had put you will get 144 minutes. The good thing is we will have well rested players.