Is there an Anti-Westphal Consensus?

Oh, yeah. What an incredible professional Cousins is. He's asked for a closed-doors meeting. Now behind closed doors he scream at his coach in a very professional manner. Hurray for Cousins!
We all knew he was a big baby when we drafted him. We knew what we were in for. We chose to go ahead with it.

PW on the other hand broke just about every team protocol in taking this public. He is the coach. He is supposed to be better than a 21 year old kid with a chip on his shoulder.
 
After reading through all the threads on this and other sites, I've noticed something really unique in the world of sports chatter: almost everyone seems to agree that Westphal needs to be gone and that Cousins, while very immature and certainly at fault in a lot of ways, is not the main culprit in this current fiasco.

My question is: does anyone on this site actually still support Westphal, or is the fanbase 100% done with him?


We need to extend him a new larger contract. This will guarantee us high lottery picks throughout his contract w us
 
Oh, yeah. What an incredible professional Cousins is. He's asked for a closed-doors meeting. Now behind closed doors he scream at his coach in a very professional manner. Hurray for Cousins!

Trolling is not very becoming of you.

Protip: Don't assume you know what went on behind closed doors, because you're not omnipotent enough to know.

/FINISH HIM.
 
You were in the meeting? You know he screamed at him? You can't take Westfails word he's already been proven a liar about the trade demand.

It's not about Westphal's word. It's about all the other reports from "inside sources" (like players). Read the reports. If this was an isolated incident then you'd have a point. It would be he said-he said. That's not the case. There are tons of reports of Cousins' immature behavior both before the draft and after the draft. Heck, sources reported that Cousins screamed at Westphal because he called a technical on him practice. (If it wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious. Maybe nobody except Westphal can referee in practice because of the onslaught from Cousins if they call a foul, much less a technical). What does that tell you?

It's an absolute joke that anybody would have respect for Cousins behavior just because he requested to meet with Westphal behind closed doors. Do we expect now that Cousins has turned the corner in his behavior? Has he had an epiphany and he has added 10 years to emotional maturity level?
 
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Look, I'm not a PW fan, but it's hilarious how many people on these boards are accusing PW of lying about what went on in that meeting or what has gone on being closed doors. Why the hell would PW lie about **** like that? Trust me, Cousins has been given every opportunity imaginable and has probably gotten away with a lot of stuff that they've simply turned their backs to. I seriously doubt PW would just make up a bunch of crap just to get back at DMC or whatever. Come on.
 
Look, I'm not a PW fan, but it's hilarious how many people on these boards are accusing PW of lying about what went on in that meeting or what has gone on being closed doors. Why the hell would PW lie about **** like that? Trust me, Cousins has been given every opportunity imaginable and has probably gotten away with a lot of stuff that they've simply turned their backs to. I seriously doubt PW would just make up a bunch of crap just to get back at DMC or whatever. Come on.

He's lying to take the focus off himself. He's never the problem, it's always another persons fault. Look read the other threads. This isn't the first, second or third time it's happened in his coaching career. It goes back almost 20 years.
 
He's lying to take the focus off himself. He's never the problem, it's always another persons fault. Look read the other threads. This isn't the first, second or third time it's happened in his coaching career. It goes back almost 20 years.

So what about Coach Cal, and the incident with Donte last year, the immature choking sign during the game, the incident with Daniel Shapiro, the reports from others within the organization about his immaturity and selfishness? They are all liars, right?
 
Look, I'm not a PW fan, but it's hilarious how many people on these boards are accusing PW of lying about what went on in that meeting or what has gone on being closed doors. Why the hell would PW lie about **** like that? Trust me, Cousins has been given every opportunity imaginable and has probably gotten away with a lot of stuff that they've simply turned their backs to. I seriously doubt PW would just make up a bunch of crap just to get back at DMC or whatever. Come on.

Lying and exacgerrating the truth are pretty close in this instance, and its pretty obvious Westy did just that. DEMANDED a trade? DEMANDED is a strong word. It leaves no room for anything else.
 
Just in case you don't believe me:

"Last February, Cousins was removed from the team plane bound for Phoenix after an altercation with teammate Donte Greene over Greene in-bounding a last second game pass to Tyreke Evans –-who missed the three-pointer-- instead of Cousins in the post. Cousins and Greene exchanged words in the locker room, which escalated to the team plane, where the rookie center was promptly removed by Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie.

Back then, the team took their time evaluating the incident and Cousins future with the team. The sad part is there were three previous incidents involving Cousins that brings Sacramento to the current mess they are in.

Cousins was fined $5,000 by the team last October after exchanging heated words with strength and conditioning coach Daniel Shapiro, a scene that followed Cousins furious disagreement during a practice with Kings assistant coach Truck Robinson. The warning signs were there, this much is true. Cousins was kicked out of practice by Westphal in late November during his rookie year after the two exchanged words, an episode that eventually led to Cousins losing his starting job."

Source: http://www.bloguin.com/crossoverchr...us-cousins-run-out-of-chances-with-kings.html


But, you're right, it's EVERYBODY ELSE'S fault except DMC's! This is the problem with professional sports and really our society these days. NO ACCOUNTABILITY! Just more excuses about how it's always everybody else's fault except their own!
 
Oh, yeah. What an incredible professional Cousins is. He's asked for a closed-doors meeting. Now behind closed doors he scream at his coach in a very professional manner. Hurray for Cousins!

That is the mature way to handle it. Behind closed doors, asking for that meeting is exactly the way he should handle it.

Happens in every board room of every large corporation/law firm around the country. Happens behind closed doors with your favorite politician. You don't know it because professionals don't come out and cry about disagreements/arguments publicly afterwards. You think in business it's only please and thank you behind closed doors?

Your youth is really starting to show with your posts lately, and your complete lack of maturity is shining through. You aren't even telling the whole story, and leaving out the part of when Cousins did ask for the meeting, and did show up, Westy told him he doesn't have time for him and blew him off. THAT is where the reaction came from.
 
So what about Coach Cal, and the incident with Donte last year, the immature choking sign during the game, the incident with Daniel Shapiro, the reports from others within the organization about his immaturity and selfishness? They are all liars, right?

Nobody said he was perfect or had no issues. We are talking about this latest one. Westfail is using Cousins reputation against to make himself look better. He's done it in the past with Payton too. This is not the way a coach or leader should be acting.
 
How come we haven't started a pool to guess the exact minute PW gets the ax? I'm down for 12 hours after the plane lands returning from their 0-3 road trip.
YES! I am off by about 24 hours. Seeya Westphal!
 
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Nobody said he was perfect or had no issues. We are talking about this latest one. Westfail is using Cousins reputation against to make himself look better. He's done it in the past with Payton too. This is not the way a coach or leader should be acting.

Sad that you would go this far to stick up for a guy like DMC. Also, what is your proof that PW is lying? His previous issue with Payton (who, BTW, was also a documented head case as well!)?
 
Look, I'm not a PW fan, but it's hilarious how many people on these boards are accusing PW of lying about what went on in that meeting or what has gone on being closed doors. Why the hell would PW lie about **** like that? Trust me, Cousins has been given every opportunity imaginable and has probably gotten away with a lot of stuff that they've simply turned their backs to. I seriously doubt PW would just make up a bunch of crap just to get back at DMC or whatever. Come on.

Of course we're all speculating here because we don't know the real truth.

I don't think PW lied either. I think Cousins could have stated something in that regards during the heated confrontation. However unless his agent or he demanded a trade to GP then I really don't see it as official. Basically if I was in PW shoe, I wouldn't go out blowing everything that was said in the room unless it is official. Obviously it wasn't and for a coach to take a kid's words during a confrontation and publicized it is ridiculous to me.

Maybe it's just me but sometime people (mature or immature), in the heat of the moment, said things they don't actually mean. Action speak louder than words and I don't see any trade yet. Until then...this trade crap is just crap imo.
 
He's lying to take the focus off himself. He's never the problem, it's always another persons fault. Look read the other threads. This isn't the first, second or third time it's happened in his coaching career. It goes back almost 20 years.

And how do you know? Oh, wait. :) Section 101 did some research and found articles about how PW functioned in Seattle and Phoenix. It was eerily similar to the present situation. For those who want actual facts about PW's personaility/leadershiop style, read the first note in the thread. This "find" was one of the better "finds" about the whole issue called Paul Westphal. Many posters here are incredibly knowledgable about basketball and have posted opinions over and over and over about Westphal but this link provides real solid back up to what several people seem to already know. At the least it has to make the people who still are holding out hope that Westphal is competent a reason to pause and reconsider their opinions. I sure hope so.

These are as close to being "facts" as anything we have to deal with.

For those who don't like long notes, you can stop reading right now.

I think my history has been to defend coaches, GMs, and owners as a default position. I supported Adelman, I have always supported Petrie, and I supported the Maloofs until last year. I even supported the Maloofs through some of the Anaheim issue. Now, I have a huge distate for PW, I am questioning Petrie although I wouldn't want him fired at least not as a first move, and I think that the Maloofs are toxic. Almost every business depends on great leadership to be successful. The ultimate leaders set the tone for how the organization runs.

I hold the Maloofs responsible for this disaster on the court called the Kings. They have created an environment of instability and frugalness. I think their frugalness might just be the least of their negative impact as their hands are all over the coaching hires and I don't know about the player acquisitions. Strangely, it seems like Petrie is giving in to Westphal in the players he picked up unless what I have been reading is totally wrong. Certainly a GM should work hand in hand with the coach but it seems as if he has relinquishd his responsiblity to Westphal. I may be wrong. Salmons was the single most worst pickup of the off season as his game is a me first style of play and we absolutely did not need that. We needed a man dedicated to defense who had little or any need to score. It left us with a gross imbalance of offensive minded players who seem to function best 1 on 1. Awful. It is similar to having a certain amount of plutonium which is simply a nice collection of plutonium. Add a little more and "BOOM!" Salmons was the addition that went BOOM! The offense died.

So in the end I blame the Maloofs and in the end, the only path I can see to us long suffering fans is to have a change of ownership. We have little control over this.

The next inpactful move that can be made is to fire Westphal. We have an adequate substitute on the bench in Keith Smart and maybe a couple others. The Maloofs have this decision in their hands and they need to be decisive. So far we have heard nothing from the Maloofs as to how this season is going. Therefore I doubt if we will se a decisive move from them. They left a home game early. Perhaps when the attendance falls they will show some interest in trying to change what is happening. Money seems to be their motivator.

In any case, I left the link at the beginning of this note and put it at the begiining for those people who don't have the energy to read long notes and for those who have a disinterest in what I say. Read about what non-Kings people have thought about Westphal and you will understand why he has been unemployed so long.
 
So in your view Westphal is only responsible for rotations?!
On the basketball court, primarily rotations yes.

Coach is a lot more than that obviously. Amongst a few things he is also motivator...someone that is responsible for getting his team up and about and knowing which buttons to push to get them going. Throwing players under the bus does not get them going...it gets them to quit.
A coach is supposed to motivate his players to play? I dont agree with that. A player should be ready to play whether or not their coach is telling them to or not.

A lot of the things that you are mentioning are responsibility of the coach. If we had a clear offensive set maybe the rest of the team wouldn't be standing around when Jimmer has the ball. Maybe, just maybe they will be getting into their spots on the court and executing their offensive sets. It may well be that Westphal's fault that players go one on one or kill the shot clock precisely because no one known what they are supposed to be doing and that is on the coach. I have not once this season seen us run a set play. Not once! Whose fault is that?
My opinion was based on confidence that the players knew how to play basketball. I don't think that they had to be babysat and told what to do. It doesn't take a superstar to know that wing players make back door cuts, stretch the defense, hit spot up 3 pointers and the other stuff. I thought most of our guys knew their roles. DMC as the post player, rebounder. Jimmer playmaker, spot up shooter. Thornton scorer. Salmons wing player. Hayes rebounder and ballmover. That goes for the others as well. Even if it weren't specifically specified to them, it looked as if just about everybody figured out their role on their own. Reke however i dont think did, and that was a big problem, a problem that WP failed to address.

And if players are looking lost out there or not interested it is absolutely on the coach. Its a first sign that the players are tuning him out. In other words he has lost the players. It is interesting that every year to date Westphal has lost the players, only to get them back once he start running something resembling a system, raise the hopes for next season and go back to wacky stuff all over again.
Who gave up on WP out there? In the past, IIRC, Hawes, Noce, Beno, Casspi, and there might've been others that i can't recall atm, complain about lack of plays, lack of ball movement, lack of passing. It is my opinion that that was due to the problem with Reke, and WP's failure to address the Reke problem.

Its time to do the right thing and cut our ties with a coach that is clearly not up to it and whose tenure with the team is ending in pretty much the same fashion as all the previous ones. When he gets question by players he throws them under the bus for daring to question him but he doesn't realise if he had a system that worked to start of with, chances are those questions would never be asked. I agree, he handled the DMC situation poorly. He should've never made it public. However, i wouldn't argue against the disciplinary action that he used.

I thought the players could have made the games we've seen so far a lot more competitive. Better transition defense for starters. However the Reke problem IMO was bringing the team down a lot, which isn't a fault of Evans, but one of WP.
 
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