all i can say is "becareful what you wish for". after new jersey tossed him we were ready to sign S.A.R. hoping he could fill that inconsistant power forward slot. we wanted him; we got him!! he's had a few games where he exploded for 25+ points, but i must say that his individual stats have been appalling. averaging less that 1 block and 1 steal per game. averaging only 6 rebounds a game. ((bonzi averages more than he does)). averaging 16ppg, which is awesome for a BACKUP power forward. at this time i would probably take mcdeyes over him. is he getting tossed after this year?
is rahim a dissapointment?
- Thread starter tyrant
- Start date
I expected more of him. He seems to live up to the billing that he "doesn't make his teamates any better". His rebounding is really weak and his help defense is just bad. We are weaker inside than we were last year at this point. All that being said he is far from the biggest dissapointment, the team is full of them.
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He's getting fewer than 10 shots through the offense every game. It's hard to blame scoring on a guy that isn't getting touches ... and is converting over 50% of the touches he does get.
Considering that's pretty much near his average, I wouldn't assume that this is out of the ordinary. If someone expected him to all of a sudden get 2 blocks and 2 steals - then they were just expecting a player to be something he isn't.
It's like expecting Peja to score like MJ. It just ain't in his bag o' tricks.
That's an issue. But, when you judge rebounds, you should compare it to the number the player is giving up to the person he is guarding. Reef is not allowing his man to dominate us on the glass.
That matters more than getting a specific number. He's losing the battle of the glass, but not extraordinarily so. It's much better than if he were getting 14RPG per48 but giving up 16RPG per48.
On 10 shots - that's pretty dang efficient.
Want him to score more ... give him the ball more.
Around the Hornets game on Dec 11th, the team seemed to try to get him the ball more often. After that point he's averaged over 20PPG. More specifically, after the 17th, Rahim got the ball over 15 games a game and average 22PPG.
It would be stupid to "toss" the most productive player that's on the floor. Reef is the only player on the starting unit that is effectively beating his opponent night in and out. That includes Bonzi.
Personally, I'd prefer Reef to go elsewhere. The Kings are in rebuilding mode. They have been for years, but have been rebuilding while fielding a decent product. This has eventually caught up and the product isn't up to snuff ... and I hate for Reef to be stuck losing for the next few years.
The solutions for fixing this squad are too invasive to actually think that it is a quick fix.
Considering that's pretty much near his average, I wouldn't assume that this is out of the ordinary. If someone expected him to all of a sudden get 2 blocks and 2 steals - then they were just expecting a player to be something he isn't.
It's like expecting Peja to score like MJ. It just ain't in his bag o' tricks.
That's an issue. But, when you judge rebounds, you should compare it to the number the player is giving up to the person he is guarding. Reef is not allowing his man to dominate us on the glass.
That matters more than getting a specific number. He's losing the battle of the glass, but not extraordinarily so. It's much better than if he were getting 14RPG per48 but giving up 16RPG per48.
On 10 shots - that's pretty dang efficient.
Want him to score more ... give him the ball more.
Around the Hornets game on Dec 11th, the team seemed to try to get him the ball more often. After that point he's averaged over 20PPG. More specifically, after the 17th, Rahim got the ball over 15 games a game and average 22PPG.
It would be stupid to "toss" the most productive player that's on the floor. Reef is the only player on the starting unit that is effectively beating his opponent night in and out. That includes Bonzi.
Personally, I'd prefer Reef to go elsewhere. The Kings are in rebuilding mode. They have been for years, but have been rebuilding while fielding a decent product. This has eventually caught up and the product isn't up to snuff ... and I hate for Reef to be stuck losing for the next few years.
The solutions for fixing this squad are too invasive to actually think that it is a quick fix.
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Name a PF not named Duncan that does.
All the "big name superstars" don't. Garnett? Nope. O'Neal? Nope. Stoudemire? Not so far.
None of these players really make anyone better. They are all just on teams that can utilize their strengths, which there are many and cover their weaknesses (which aren't as big).
So far, I agree. I just don't know what's up with that. The last time Reef was a poor rebounder was when he had to have back surgery. I wonder if his back isn't causing him issues?
Strange that you say that considering his last two coaches told the media how suprised they were by his defense, considering they had assumed he wasn't a very good defender.
I'll look for the quotes.
That MAY be true ... but Brad Miller isn't helping the situation. His man is killing us down there ...
All the "big name superstars" don't. Garnett? Nope. O'Neal? Nope. Stoudemire? Not so far.
None of these players really make anyone better. They are all just on teams that can utilize their strengths, which there are many and cover their weaknesses (which aren't as big).
So far, I agree. I just don't know what's up with that. The last time Reef was a poor rebounder was when he had to have back surgery. I wonder if his back isn't causing him issues?
Strange that you say that considering his last two coaches told the media how suprised they were by his defense, considering they had assumed he wasn't a very good defender.
I'll look for the quotes.
That MAY be true ... but Brad Miller isn't helping the situation. His man is killing us down there ...
Plus, it's a tough sell to say that a guy who is 3rd-or-better on the team in six statistcal categories, while having the seventh-highest salary on the team, is a disappointment, unless you suffered under some kind of delusion that Abdur-Rahim was going to be the guy to come in here and put the team on his back, which I don't think even playmaker0017 thought he would do.
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Vancover. First 3-4 years.
He was considered one of the top 3-6 PFs in the game. I don't think it was undue either. I think he was and is still an elite player, but he's lost his way.
He's no longer the aggressive player he once was. He's lost his tenacity ... almost like he's lost his desire. I think the number of losses piled up on him and it started to be more weight than he could bear. It broke his spirit. I don't think it's a conscious thing, I know from conversations that he loves the game ... it's just that I think somewhere back in his mind all the criticism is wearing on him.
I was so happy when he came to the Kings because I assumed that we would win and Reef would start performing up to that level again. I KNOW deep down that he would ... but instead it is more of the same.
At the beginning of the year, I thought that he looked youthful. He was fighting and running the floor. I was so happy, but when the losses started piling up I think it changed his demeanor.
He was considered one of the top 3-6 PFs in the game. I don't think it was undue either. I think he was and is still an elite player, but he's lost his way.
He's no longer the aggressive player he once was. He's lost his tenacity ... almost like he's lost his desire. I think the number of losses piled up on him and it started to be more weight than he could bear. It broke his spirit. I don't think it's a conscious thing, I know from conversations that he loves the game ... it's just that I think somewhere back in his mind all the criticism is wearing on him.
I was so happy when he came to the Kings because I assumed that we would win and Reef would start performing up to that level again. I KNOW deep down that he would ... but instead it is more of the same.
At the beginning of the year, I thought that he looked youthful. He was fighting and running the floor. I was so happy, but when the losses started piling up I think it changed his demeanor.
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Defensively I don't think he matches up very well compared to how he matches against PFs.
Offensively it'd be a bit of an issue as you'd have Reef competing with space with the current PF. Being that Reef isn't a phenominal jump shooter, it will only add to the clogging of the lane.
Finally, the issue with this team isn't Reef at PF or SF. Both offensively and defensively he's performing quite well. He isn't getting the number of rebounds one would like, but I think that's changeable.
The issue lies more with Bibby allowing too much penetration and not having a solid defensive team stopper at PF or C. Someone to challenge shots. The problem if we get one at the PF slot is that they are typically not offensive monsters nor do they tend to get much range on their shots. So, you end up with too much clutter inside.
The solutions for this team are not simple. Although our starting squad holds it's own in most instances, the issues they have a glaring and not fixable through any quick measure.
Offensively it'd be a bit of an issue as you'd have Reef competing with space with the current PF. Being that Reef isn't a phenominal jump shooter, it will only add to the clogging of the lane.
Finally, the issue with this team isn't Reef at PF or SF. Both offensively and defensively he's performing quite well. He isn't getting the number of rebounds one would like, but I think that's changeable.
The issue lies more with Bibby allowing too much penetration and not having a solid defensive team stopper at PF or C. Someone to challenge shots. The problem if we get one at the PF slot is that they are typically not offensive monsters nor do they tend to get much range on their shots. So, you end up with too much clutter inside.
The solutions for this team are not simple. Although our starting squad holds it's own in most instances, the issues they have a glaring and not fixable through any quick measure.
The only way someone can be a "disappointment" is if they did not live up to expectations, so it all depends on what you thought he was going to do coming in. I don't think anyone who expected that he was going to be more than a fourth banana was being realistic. That said, he's a really really good fourth banana.
To me the rebounding has been disappointing, the defense better than I was expecting and the scoring just about where I thought he'd be. But given that he's been the most consistent player when the supposed Big 3 have been wildly inconsistent (but mostly terrible) I'd say he's exceeded my expectations. If the so-called Core were better, he'd be looking a lot better -- he'd be sort of a go-to player for a high percentage shot when the offense is faltering and otherwise picking up the slack on defense and if he would just start rebounding better his contributions would be more well rounded.
And all the advocates of SAR at SF have a very active imagination if they think he would be better suited chasing LeBron and Carmelo than guarding opposing PFs.
To me the rebounding has been disappointing, the defense better than I was expecting and the scoring just about where I thought he'd be. But given that he's been the most consistent player when the supposed Big 3 have been wildly inconsistent (but mostly terrible) I'd say he's exceeded my expectations. If the so-called Core were better, he'd be looking a lot better -- he'd be sort of a go-to player for a high percentage shot when the offense is faltering and otherwise picking up the slack on defense and if he would just start rebounding better his contributions would be more well rounded.
And all the advocates of SAR at SF have a very active imagination if they think he would be better suited chasing LeBron and Carmelo than guarding opposing PFs.
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Again, there aren't many players that do make people around them better, especially at the PF slot.
There are guys that are talented enough to force a group at varying talent levels to win through sheer force. But the number of guys that take the floor and make another player perform better are very, very few.
When it comes to Reef - he was the best player at PF available. That was the best pick the Kings could have made, regardless of anything else.
As for Webber being this player that makes everyone better - it's strange that people described him the same way they described Reef before going to Sacramento. Before he was put in a system designed with a player like Webber in mind. It's amazing what can happen.
Take him out and he's still talented, but he's not forcing anyone in Philly to play better as they contend for the last playoff spot.
There are guys that are talented enough to force a group at varying talent levels to win through sheer force. But the number of guys that take the floor and make another player perform better are very, very few.
When it comes to Reef - he was the best player at PF available. That was the best pick the Kings could have made, regardless of anything else.
As for Webber being this player that makes everyone better - it's strange that people described him the same way they described Reef before going to Sacramento. Before he was put in a system designed with a player like Webber in mind. It's amazing what can happen.
Take him out and he's still talented, but he's not forcing anyone in Philly to play better as they contend for the last playoff spot.
The core 3 have been much more of an overall disappointment than SAR. I agree with playmaker0017's comments in this thread, with the possible exception of seeing SAR go. I really like his game. Should the Kings blow up the core 3 in one fashion or another and rebuild the team around SAR's strengths.... well, that would be intriguing to me.
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Hey, I'd love Reef to be "the man" again. Don't get me wrong.
But, if he's going to be a 4th fiddle on a losing team night in and night out ... I'd rather him go back to Atlanta and be second or first fiddle on another crappy team or fourth fiddle on a great team like the Spurs.
But, if the team wanted to build around Reef's strengths and aquire players that help defend his weaknesses ... I'd be all for it.
I'm not sure about "building" around him, but bolstering the team with complimentary talent would be nice.
But, if he's going to be a 4th fiddle on a losing team night in and night out ... I'd rather him go back to Atlanta and be second or first fiddle on another crappy team or fourth fiddle on a great team like the Spurs.
But, if the team wanted to build around Reef's strengths and aquire players that help defend his weaknesses ... I'd be all for it.
I'm not sure about "building" around him, but bolstering the team with complimentary talent would be nice.
I don't understand all this talk about SAR not making others better. SAR sets great picks on the perimeter freeing Bibby and Peja for his shots. For a team where most of the players on the team can't create their own shots they depend heavily on these types of picks in order to keep the offense going. He is a good but not great help defender on the perimeter, even if he's not a shotblocker, which helps dampen some of Bibby's defensive deficiencies. Just because the team is sucking right now doesn't necessarily mean that Abdur-Rahim isn't making the situation just a little less terrible by being on the roster.
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Well, I agree. It would be pretty tough.
Luckily for us, Reef isn't being "outrebounded 15-3" or anywhere near that type of deficiency. Shareef is being outrebounded on a per48 basis 10 to 9. That's really not all that terrible. He's giving up one rebound more to his opponent.
When you factor in all the variables - his opponent compared to Reef - shooting %, rebounds, points, assists, turnovers, etc .... put them through the mathematical ringer ... Reef is beating his man nightly. More so than any other player on the team.
The comparitive effectiveness on the starting unit breaks down like this:
Reef : +6.4
Bibby : -0.4
Miller : -1.0
Wells : -3.0
Peja : +1.4
Comparitively, a player like Duncan beats his man +9.4 and Garnett beats his man +11.6. Although, it is interesting to note that Shareef is holding his man to a lower efficiency than either Duncan or Garnett.
Luckily for us, Reef isn't being "outrebounded 15-3" or anywhere near that type of deficiency. Shareef is being outrebounded on a per48 basis 10 to 9. That's really not all that terrible. He's giving up one rebound more to his opponent.
When you factor in all the variables - his opponent compared to Reef - shooting %, rebounds, points, assists, turnovers, etc .... put them through the mathematical ringer ... Reef is beating his man nightly. More so than any other player on the team.
The comparitive effectiveness on the starting unit breaks down like this:
Reef : +6.4
Bibby : -0.4
Miller : -1.0
Wells : -3.0
Peja : +1.4
Comparitively, a player like Duncan beats his man +9.4 and Garnett beats his man +11.6. Although, it is interesting to note that Shareef is holding his man to a lower efficiency than either Duncan or Garnett.
Philadelphia is, in fact, contending for the third playoff spot, not the last.
And Abdur-Rahim's advantages as a SF come in the form of:
1) Offense; Abdur-Rahim is much stronger than the average SF in the league, and could post them up with ease, and
2) Rebounding; as poorly as Abdur-Rahim rebounds relative to other power forwards, his best rebounding seasons came at the small forward position, where he could easily dominate the glass over opposing SF.
Saying that Abdur-Rahim shouldn't play SF because he couldn't keep up with elite SFs is a red herring, because the average SF in the league can't keep up with them, either; you don't think that Abdur-Rahim could keep up with Bruce Bowen? Jared Jeffries? James Posey?
And Abdur-Rahim's advantages as a SF come in the form of:
1) Offense; Abdur-Rahim is much stronger than the average SF in the league, and could post them up with ease, and
2) Rebounding; as poorly as Abdur-Rahim rebounds relative to other power forwards, his best rebounding seasons came at the small forward position, where he could easily dominate the glass over opposing SF.
Saying that Abdur-Rahim shouldn't play SF because he couldn't keep up with elite SFs is a red herring, because the average SF in the league can't keep up with them, either; you don't think that Abdur-Rahim could keep up with Bruce Bowen? Jared Jeffries? James Posey?