Is Joerger following Pop's philosophy of resting players? Should he?
- Thread starter VF21
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The Hammer
All-Star
Yes, and yes. Finally.
It's not second guessing him. It's just asking if you agree with the philosophy in general. AND it's something other than Luka or WCS to talk about.
Could you play 4 games in 5 nights? Rest arguably prevents fatigue and injury. That alone is worth consideration IMHO.
It was done in the past without 5 star traveling I thought 4 in 5 was done with. Most rest is done without the 4 in 5 look at Kawhi and others. I understand if it was back to back and you’re minimizing the minuets.
If you’re resting players rest them at home
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
But in those days, the game was played much slower, people had dangerously little regard for a guy's wellbeing (like C-Webb blew out his knee largely because he played through the pain in the regular season when he should have been resting), and seasons were shorter for better or worse.
In Kawhi's case, I still don't think he's physically right and may never get back to 100% every again so the rest may be a way for him to contribute what he can without suffering a catastrophic injury.
The Hammer
All-Star
Do you watch the NBA? Also, have you ever played basketball? Our game is built on speed. The game is being played faster than ever now. Over use can put you at risk of injury. It can also put you at a disadvantage if you don't have a full tank. Please try to take a nuanced view of this because right now you sound like a 2x4. You are implying that something is being done by players, coaching, or management that is untoward or not in the interest of winning. It's a personal pet peeve of mine when people refuse to have a nuanced opinion and instead impune the character of others. So incredibly lazy, which is ironic, given the subject matter.
For just one example... maybe... the game is being played faster in part because it's more common to rest guys now. Sorry didn't mean to make you think.
Ya played 3rd grad to college
The Hammer
All-Star
Amazing. You played a season of basketball that had two games a week for a total of 35 games. I'm sorry, I defer to you.
Your schedule roughly as like Kansas' D-I schedule here or was it quite a bit softer like D-III or NAIA?
Hey man, have your opinion all you want, but just know it basically disqualifies you from being taken seriously if you refuse to do any thinking on the matter and instead come to a conclusion. "I don't understand it and I don't support it." Come on bro.
jcassio
Starter
Bad post/poor communication on my part. Sorry.It's not second guessing him. It's just asking if you agree with the philosophy in general. AND it's something other than Luka or WCS to talk about.
What I was (really) responding to was the tendency of some to continually complain about our coach - even when the results are better than anyone expected. This happened with Rick Adelman, too, and it used to drive me nuts!
But of course this forum is for discussing whatever’s on the mind of Kingsfans and that’s why I’m here. So it wasn’t my intention to suggest we not discuss our thoughts on Joerger. I just fired off a reactionary post that didn’t really communicate what I was thinking at the time.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Yep, the proof is in the pudding... If you don't think our shotcallers, Joerger and Vlade, have earned the benefit of the doubt at this point, idk what to tell u, other than maybe u've got trust issues 
The 82 game schedule plus the playoffs is an absurd amount of basketball to play, just watch the playoffs and u will see battered and bruised teams not playing as well as they did in their peak during the season ---- **cough** THE ROCKETS **cough**...
IDK how u could even try and debate this, do u know how high the % of players who have knee tendonitis is? I've heard speculation it's over 90% of the league... do y'all realize how busted some of these dudes feet are (like George Hill) from years of tying their laces too tight and playing tons of ball... Also the Fultz scapular imbalance thing, I bet u craploads of NBA players have a scapular imbalance from shooting so much with their main hand..
Look at how young our team is too, this is the first rodeo for many of these guys being on a competitive team that has a chance to play even more than 82 games...
and furthermore to the crowd who points the finger at Fox not trying to take over the game when the 1st q starts 12-5 in the other teams favor, that is not the style of play the Kings want to emulate for an 82 game season, it's unnecessary risk, the Kings would be foolish as hell not to monitor and try to keep as much tread on his tires as possible... That type of thing we can wait to unleash in the playoffs, like when Fox obliterated Lonzo and UCLA in the NCAA tournament.....
The 82 game schedule plus the playoffs is an absurd amount of basketball to play, just watch the playoffs and u will see battered and bruised teams not playing as well as they did in their peak during the season ---- **cough** THE ROCKETS **cough**...
IDK how u could even try and debate this, do u know how high the % of players who have knee tendonitis is? I've heard speculation it's over 90% of the league... do y'all realize how busted some of these dudes feet are (like George Hill) from years of tying their laces too tight and playing tons of ball... Also the Fultz scapular imbalance thing, I bet u craploads of NBA players have a scapular imbalance from shooting so much with their main hand..
Look at how young our team is too, this is the first rodeo for many of these guys being on a competitive team that has a chance to play even more than 82 games...
and furthermore to the crowd who points the finger at Fox not trying to take over the game when the 1st q starts 12-5 in the other teams favor, that is not the style of play the Kings want to emulate for an 82 game season, it's unnecessary risk, the Kings would be foolish as hell not to monitor and try to keep as much tread on his tires as possible... That type of thing we can wait to unleash in the playoffs, like when Fox obliterated Lonzo and UCLA in the NCAA tournament.....
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
considering the pace the Kings play with, running them into the ground will eventually wear them down as the season progresses so if they have a scenario where they play 4 in 5 nights for example, I would be all for resting players on the last game and get them fresh for the next slate of games. The back to backs the Kings need to learn to play better and win, that's part of the NBA schedule. With that said, the West is so close that if you go on a mini losing streak you are right out of the top 8 again and have to muster up a 3, 4 or 5 game win streak to get back in it depending on the teams infront of you, of course.
King Baller
All-Star
Schedule maker must be a Laker Fan.
macadocious
Starter
I’m like 99% sure the NBA got rid of 4/5
steelevt
All-Star
Pop was able to rest his old players and keep winning despite resting his players. We have young players and lost those games we rested and still came out sluggish in the 2 games we had to fight back from 19 points. With the way they play, do they need rest? maybe. But if the the result we just saw is based off rest I don't think it's a great plan. Heck we might have won the minny game when we were down 9 or 10 in the 3rd and be 3-1 instead of 2-2. Know one knows what could have happened since it already happened. Kinda like the trade thread or a draft pick. We don't know for sure if the final result is due to what initially happened and since there's no direct correlation you can't judge that decision based on the results. We could Have lost 4 straight and people have there pitchforks out but since we came back these last two games people are praising the decision.
Dave can do whatever he currently wants the team is 3 games over 500. with a number of key injuries throughout the season, in saying that the difference between us and previous Spurs teams is that there 10th man use to be the likes of Patty Mills (they had Parker/CJoesph in front of him) who are quality rotation players where as we have Mclemore/Skal (we all saw what happened in the game where Bogie/Shump/Bagley were missing). It's a double edged sword cause we are not deep enough to rest guys but at the same time we have to do it cause we are so heavily reliant on our first 6-8 rotation guys more than most teams (Rockets are another that is similar to us in this regard) above 500. who can go 10 deep.
We should really sign/pick up some vets for the bench like Corey Brewer to allow us to rest Shump/Bogie when they have soreness/injuries.
We should really sign/pick up some vets for the bench like Corey Brewer to allow us to rest Shump/Bogie when they have soreness/injuries.
kb02
All-Star
Yes, Joeger is resting players. All teams are doing it. It's a don't ask, don't tell thing. It is also why he is a player's coach and has a great reputation around the league (see KD and Steph's comments) and why Thibs is not. Given how young this team is and their pace, when the Kings make the playoffs, it'll be more important to rest players. Most are not ready to play into June.
Kinda doing a full thoughts dump here, but was at the Memphis game and hope to be at a few more--including the playoffs. Thoughts follow:
1. Kings really need to make the playoffs this year. Demand has noticeably waned from the first two years. There's less activity and less congestion before games. Wouldn't say the team is in the red yet, but another year without a healthy season ticket revenue base and the Kings are in trouble.
2. As for the playoffs, yes, I think the Kings are going to make the playoffs. Even if they do not trade for a jumbo 3. JJ is developing into the 10 year pro that most assumed he would be and Shump does a great job with non-superstar SFs, who are 6'8 and under.
3. My buddy and I are going to go in on playoff tickets--under the assumption that there's going to be a pay to play system in place where we can only get them if we commit to season tickets for 2019. I'll likely only be able to make 20% of the games for 2019, but it's been 10+ years since we made the playoffs. So be it.
4. Height/length is over rated until it is not. For every Draymond, there is JJJ. Dude's long and will get bigger. Legit 6'11 and that's why he's effective thus far. That Fox block was a blur (happened right in front of us and we didn't realize it had happened until the team was going the other way).
5. Fox has gotten noticeably bigger. Not just in the shoulders, which is evident on TV, but in the legs. Last year, I noted on STR, that in person, Fox doesn't look small (because of his length). He looks even more like a jumbo guard this year.
6. The Kings need to play more of this during crazy runs (and keep on playing it...really sets the mood--was crazy humming it during the 4th qtr run):
7. NBA travel is hard. Ran into and talked to a bunch of Memphis trainers. They get the craptiest duties (carrying 2x 50 lb bags each). It's a marathon for them.
8. DOCO commerce is starting to slow down a bit. A few pop ups. There's a lot of economic headwinds and Sac has always been rather boom or bust. Interesting to see how the shops hold up over the next few years. Ditto for the Sawyer, especially the Sawyer residences (heard the HOA for the condos are $1.7k+ per month and does not include tickets--that's crazy), and the surrounding new builds.
9. Temple would be a perfect player for this year's team. Can we trade Ben and a 2nd for him?
Kinda doing a full thoughts dump here, but was at the Memphis game and hope to be at a few more--including the playoffs. Thoughts follow:
1. Kings really need to make the playoffs this year. Demand has noticeably waned from the first two years. There's less activity and less congestion before games. Wouldn't say the team is in the red yet, but another year without a healthy season ticket revenue base and the Kings are in trouble.
2. As for the playoffs, yes, I think the Kings are going to make the playoffs. Even if they do not trade for a jumbo 3. JJ is developing into the 10 year pro that most assumed he would be and Shump does a great job with non-superstar SFs, who are 6'8 and under.
3. My buddy and I are going to go in on playoff tickets--under the assumption that there's going to be a pay to play system in place where we can only get them if we commit to season tickets for 2019. I'll likely only be able to make 20% of the games for 2019, but it's been 10+ years since we made the playoffs. So be it.
4. Height/length is over rated until it is not. For every Draymond, there is JJJ. Dude's long and will get bigger. Legit 6'11 and that's why he's effective thus far. That Fox block was a blur (happened right in front of us and we didn't realize it had happened until the team was going the other way).
5. Fox has gotten noticeably bigger. Not just in the shoulders, which is evident on TV, but in the legs. Last year, I noted on STR, that in person, Fox doesn't look small (because of his length). He looks even more like a jumbo guard this year.
6. The Kings need to play more of this during crazy runs (and keep on playing it...really sets the mood--was crazy humming it during the 4th qtr run):
7. NBA travel is hard. Ran into and talked to a bunch of Memphis trainers. They get the craptiest duties (carrying 2x 50 lb bags each). It's a marathon for them.
8. DOCO commerce is starting to slow down a bit. A few pop ups. There's a lot of economic headwinds and Sac has always been rather boom or bust. Interesting to see how the shops hold up over the next few years. Ditto for the Sawyer, especially the Sawyer residences (heard the HOA for the condos are $1.7k+ per month and does not include tickets--that's crazy), and the surrounding new builds.
9. Temple would be a perfect player for this year's team. Can we trade Ben and a 2nd for him?
chief bromden
Starter
Gem of a post, wholeheartedly agree on that white stripes tune
TaxMan
Starter
Of course players “can” play without rest. I don’t this the point is you’ve got a lot of lazy players complaining they are just too tired to make a go at it. The strategy is a result of analysis of thousands of games that show the impact of physically and mentally exhausted players on team performance. If you think resting players gives you better odds at winning games in the short term (more minutes for guys in a back to back with fresh legs) and/or long term (fresher legs for your best players by end of the year) then why not?
