Is Dave Joerger a good coach?

How do you rate Dave Joerger?

  • A

  • B

  • C

  • D

  • F

  • Not sure


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#1
It was nice to see the Kings compete with a good team at full strength (Jazz).

There, I said something nice.

In my defense, I will say that my philosophy is to ignore the things that are going well, because they need no concern and focus on things that need improving - this may come off as "being negative" but i can live with that.

Having said something nice, I now ask you how to go about creating a (or finding an existent) thread about "Is Dave Joerger a good coach?"

I ask because I apparently ran afoul of one moderator by starting a thread that he did not approve of (and locked) even though apparently another mod had commented on it positively without locking it. Unfortunately the locking mod just told me to go look at the rules instead of linking me to the appropriate rule. So, I don't want to err again - If i start a thread on a subject that already exists, I assume he would lock it, so, if there is already a thread on this subject, perhaps someone could link it for me - or inform me that I am free to start such a thread.

I don't have a fully formed opinion on the subject (Good Coach?) but I have a lot of doubts. Of course, Joerger could be such a genius that I simply can't see his long range plan, but let me give you the example that causes me to want to start this thread.

As I said, the Kings played the Jazz close and a win in Utah against a team at full strength and needing every game desperately would have been a high point.

But who the hell is advising (coaching) Willie Cauley-Stein? What is the plan? IS there a plan?

Here is the play by play of the game:

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975789

If you look at the first half, you see that Willie dunked on a lob from Bogi and then again on a lob from Frank.

Yet I don't think another lob was ever attempted.

Instead, in the third quarter, Willie makes an 18 foot jumper.

When he comes back in he misses a 17 footer, then another outside jumper and yet, when it is coming down to crunch time, there he is firing up (and missing) another 18 footer.

If that was the plan, it was a dumb plan. If Willie was going "against the plan", then he should have been pulled and lectured.

WAS there even a plan?

Because Willie COULD become a good outside shooter, but in THIS game, he made one, missed the next two and should not have been firing one up with the game on the line. We HAVE some great outside shooters and one more for Willie means one less for Bogi or Buddy (or Justin).

This takes me back to the first home Laker game, when Bogi lobbed to Willie for dunks SIX TIMES.

And then that seemed to disappear from the game plan in subsequent games.

Once he made one from outside, you would assume that Gobert has to at least come out a little to guard him.

And Willie's speed and athleticism going to the basket is a great way to negate a shot blocker's effect.

Once he misses two more, Gobert no longer has to leave the paint.

But that last 18 footer - why?

This is just one reason why I would like to start such a thread, but I will wait for guidance from a mod before doing so.
 
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#2
It was nice to see the Kings compete with a good team at full strength (Jazz).

There, I said something nice.

In my defense, I will say that my philosophy is to ignore the things that are going well, because they need no concern and focus on things that need improving - this may come off as "being negative" but i can live with that.

Having said something nice, I now ask you how to go about creating a (or finding an existent) thread about "Is Dave Joerger a good coach?"

I ask because I apparently ran afoul of one moderator by starting a thread that he did not approve of (and locked) even though apparently another mod had commented on it positively without locking it. Unfortunately the locking mod just told me to go look at the rules instead of linking me to the appropriate rule. So, I don't want to err again - If i start a thread on a subject that already exists, I assume he would lock it, so, if there is already a thread on this subject, perhaps someone could link it for me - or inform me that I am free to start such a thread.

I don't have a fully formed opinion on the subject (Good Coach?) but I have a lot of doubts. Of course, Joerger could be such a genius that I simply can't see his long range plan, but let me give you the example that causes me to want to start this thread.

As I said, the Kings played the Jazz close and a win in Utah against a team at full strength and needing every game desperately would have been a high point.

But who the hell is advising (coaching) Willie Cauley-Stein? What is the plan? IS there a plan?

Here is the play by play of the game:

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975789

If you look at the first half, you see that Willie dunked on a lob from Bogi and then again on a lob from Frank.

Yet I don't think another lob was ever attempted.

Instead, in the third quarter, Willie makes an 18 foot jumper.

When he comes back in he misses a 17 footer, then another outside jumper and yet, when it is coming down to crunch time, there he is firing up (and missing) another 18 footer.

If that was the plan, it was a dumb plan. If Willie was going "against the plan", then he should have been pulled and lectured.

WAS there even a plan?

Because Willie COULD become a good outside shooter, but in THIS game, he made one, missed the next two and should not have been firing one up with the game on the line. We HAVE some great outside shooters and one more for Willie means one less for Bogi or Buddy (or Justin).

This takes me back to the first home Laker game, when Bogi lobbed to Willie for dunks SIX TIMES.

And then that seemed to disappear from the game plan in subsequent games.

Once he made one from outside, you would assume that Gobert has to at least come out a little to guard him.

And Willie's speed and athleticism going to the basket is a great way to negate a shot blocker's effect.

One he misses two more, Gobert no longer has to leave the paint.

But that last 18 footer - why?

This is just one reason why I would like to start such a thread, but I will wait for guidance from a mod before doing so.
I am not following apparently, so good coaching is recommending lob alley-oops and discouraging jumpers?
 
#3
A good coach puts his players in situations where they can succeed. You ask them to do what they can be successful doing. Willie is hardly an accomplished outside shooter (although I think he COULD become one). He is GREAT at finishing off lobs. So, why is he doing what he is not accomplished at (in the fourth quarter of a winnable game)?
 
#5
Since multiple votes were/are allowed, I decided to give Joerger an A/B. I think, given the roster that he inherited when he became the head coach, and the one Vlade is constructing as he coaches the team, I think Dave is doing a phenomenal job. I see nothing but an upward trajectory for this team, and his coaching has a heckuva lot to do with that. I believe I said this before, but I will say it here again. Do I think he will be the coach that will win us a championship? Honestly, no, I do not. But I do think he will be the one to take us to the playoffs, and set us, and the next coach, up to take that next step and give us a chance to win one.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
Since multiple votes were/are allowed, I decided to give Joerger an A/B. I think, given the roster that he inherited when he became the head coach, and the one Vlade is constructing as he coaches the team, I think Dave is doing a phenomenal job. I see nothing but an upward trajectory for this team, and his coaching has a heckuva lot to do with that. I believe I said this before, but I will say it here again. Do I think he will be the coach that will win us a championship? Honestly, no, I do not. But I do think he will be the one to take us to the playoffs, and set us, and the next coach, up to take that next step and give us a chance to win one.
Same here.

I disagree with you in thinking he won't be the coach that leads us to a championship. I see him lasting here as long as Adelman did and perhaps even longer. :)
 
#11
I have him as a C/B- coach. I'm not a fan of his defensive overall gameplans. On defense, not only do we allow the 2nd most 3pt attempts at 31.8, we also allow the best 3pt%...at 38.4%. hat's horrible.

Another thing that makes 0 sense to me. Kings are 2nd in the league in 3pt% at 38.3%, but we take the 2nd fewest with only 23.9. To put that in perspective, Houston shoots 42.1/game. Boston takes 31.3/game.

He needs to stop with the inefficient mid-range shots going forward.
 
#12
I have him as a C/B- coach. I'm not a fan of his defensive overall gameplans. On defense, not only do we allow the 2nd most 3pt attempts at 31.8, we also allow the best 3pt%...at 38.4%. hat's horrible.

Another thing that makes 0 sense to me. Kings are 2nd in the league in 3pt% at 38.3%, but we take the 2nd fewest with only 23.9. To put that in perspective, Houston shoots 42.1/game. Boston takes 31.3/game.

He needs to stop with the inefficient mid-range shots going forward.
Ya we need to launching from 3 Buddy, Bogdan, and Skal all should be taking them
 
#13
Yes. Joeger is a good coach.

He gets his teams to play hard every night. There is no quit in his teams. The team is very competitive in almost all of their games.

When the team gets more experience and a couple more good players, we will be a perennial playoff team.

I think that time is coming sooner than most people think. :)
 
#14
It's hard to really get a read on him considering he's only had very little experience as a coach and the place he can hang his hat on wasn't one he built. It's kind of like Westphal with the Suns. In the end I think he ends up being considered an average coach and I think he isn't a perfect fit for the Kings young talent. The Kings should be a fast team, they are not. The grit and grind has been a fail here up to this point. I think next year is going to be a big year for him and maybe the front office as to their futures with the franchise.
 
#15
I have him as a C/B- coach. I'm not a fan of his defensive overall gameplans. On defense, not only do we allow the 2nd most 3pt attempts at 31.8, we also allow the best 3pt%...at 38.4%. hat's horrible.

Another thing that makes 0 sense to me. Kings are 2nd in the league in 3pt% at 38.3%, but we take the 2nd fewest with only 23.9. To put that in perspective, Houston shoots 42.1/game. Boston takes 31.3/game.

He needs to stop with the inefficient mid-range shots going forward.

You can read through the stats this year and last and they aren't pretty. When you factor in the age of the players and how many veterans are on the team who have experience in his system the numbers stand out even more.
 
#16
Yes. Joeger is a good coach.

He gets his teams to play hard every night. There is no quit in his teams. The team is very competitive in almost all of their games.

When the team gets more experience and a couple more good players, we will be a perennial playoff team.

I think that time is coming sooner than most people think. :)

This is his best aspect as a coach. He gets them ready to hustle and play hard.

In relation to the idea that his teams are competitive, is that partly due to low expectations? His Kings according to the team stats are the 2nd least competitive team in all the league with a -7.5 on the year. I can't recall too many consecutive blowouts and they always seem to be in games at some point, but this would be interesting to put into context compared to the other bottom feeding teams this year.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#17
It's hard to really get a read on him considering he's only had very little experience as a coach and the place he can hang his hat on wasn't one he built. It's kind of like Westphal with the Suns. In the end I think he ends up being considered an average coach and I think he isn't a perfect fit for the Kings young talent. The Kings should be a fast team, they are not. The grit and grind has been a fail here up to this point. I think next year is going to be a big year for him and maybe the front office as to their futures with the franchise.
I think you need to look into his CV. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Joerger

He's building a pretty impressive resume and checking all the boxes as far as a coach who can develop young talent is concerned.
 
#18
I think you need to look into his CV. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Joerger

He's building a pretty impressive resume and checking all the boxes as far as a coach who can develop young talent is concerned.
Here is the thing about Coach, he makes his young guys earn their playing time.

So, if the young guy gets on the court, you know they have been practicing hard and doing the right things in practice (which may be why Bruno has not seen much PT yet).

This is a good thing in my eyes, because players learn to cut down on mistakes during games, if they are held accountable.
 
#20
I also want to see the Kings shoot more three's. But Justin Jackson and DeAaron Fox are really good inside with pull ups and floaters. I don't want to see those guys quit doing what they do. All midrange is not bad no matter how you spin the stats.
 
#21
He's the best coach we've had in years which frankly is good enough for me for the time being. He has a plan, whether or not you like it, and I think giving it time to develop with a vote of confidence (which he has) is the best thing for a young club trying to build. Also he is getting the kids to overachieve - which I understand not everyone likes, but maybe, just maybe this "overachievement" will become par for the course.

I probably rank him a B with the potential for upgrade to an A.
 
#22
He's a phenomenal coach but he's in the wrong era. His grind style of jumpers and post play might win some games, but it's hard to make a significant impact that way. He's still running the majority of his offense through Zach Randolph in the post. I think if he adapts to the new fast paced way of playing hell last a long time but if he stays the way he is I don't see him sticking around that long.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#23
I like Joerger, it might be safe to say he's our best coach since Adelman and that the Kings will eventually end their dreaded playoff drought with Joerger calling the shots. I hope he is here for the long term and that within time, he continues to improve and adjust his coaching methods based on the players he has because so far, he and the rest of his coaching staff have done a good job of developing their players.
 
#25
Joerger is a great coach. You could hand him the Warriors or Spurs and they wouldn’t miss a beat. Coaches, in general, are pretty overrated at the NBA level in regards to their impact, but Joerger is definitelt top tier.
 
#26
He's the best coach we've had in years which frankly is good enough for me for the time being. He has a plan, whether or not you like it, and I think giving it time to develop with a vote of confidence (which he has) is the best thing for a young club trying to build. Also he is getting the kids to overachieve - which I understand not everyone likes, but maybe, just maybe this "overachievement" will become par for the course.

I probably rank him a B with the potential for upgrade to an A.

Coach to coach I can't put him over Karl but he's easily 2nd on the list.
 
#27
Coach to coach I can't put him over Karl but he's easily 2nd on the list.
Karl was a great coach in the past but it feels like by the time he got to the Kings the game had passed him by. Or he mailed it in. I don't know which, but I don't rate Karl's tenure with the Kings highly at all despite my respect for what he did with the Sonics in the 90s.
 
#28
Karl was a great coach in the past but it feels like by the time he got to the Kings the game had passed him by. Or he mailed it in. I don't know which, but I don't rate Karl's tenure with the Kings highly at all despite my respect for what he did with the Sonics in the 90s.
Well, we know what was up now, it was he or Cousins the whole time. In the end the Kings fired him and moved Cousins anyway. Kangz.

One thing I didn't like about Karl was that in his later years he became the type of coach that demanded a style of play regardless of his talents abilities and that's my main issue with Dave Joerger at the moment. They'd rather go down with their ship than sail with another. Maybe Dave Joerger will adjust and it's all a part of some plan. When I think "great" coaching I look back at Rick Adelman and his willingness to adapt to his team. When the Kings started over with Ron Artest and Bonzi Wells he didn't force them into playing Kings basketball, he rolled with their strengths and designed a gritty, bash 'em up style of play that worked for them. I think coaches that stick to a particular system and refuse to go beyond it need to have a say in their teams personnel moves in order for it to work.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#29
Dave is more competent than most of the train wreck head coaches we've had come through since RA.

Seems to be a bit of a dinosaur though, but I love how he has these kids fighting.

It's hard to judge him with this roster. I can say with confidence that he isn't a bad coach, but it remains to be seen if he's a good coach, or just an average one.
 
#30
Well, we know what was up now, it was he or Cousins the whole time. In the end the Kings fired him and moved Cousins anyway. Kangz.
Kangz is the easy answer. But why did he come here if he refused to work with Cousins. Cousins as a talent deserved a coach that would work with him. Unfortunately the clock ran out for us and Cousins because with no talent surrounding him we just couldn't sign him to his market value. I hated that we had to move him, but it became make or break time and we never came close to moving the needle. It's a shame the organization had to blow 4 straight drafts after his because I think if we had hit in 2 of 4 of those drafts and not played the coaching carousel we'd be in great shape right now.

As for your later point, I think Joerger needs to stick with a system while developing young talent and then adjust to their needs once their limitations and roles are better defined. I just feel like it's too easy to just turn young talent loose and let them learn bad habits and then they fail long term. It's why I think good clubs with systems in place seem to always draft better than their position while some teams (us at the end of the Maloof era and PDA era) can't do jack with their picks.