I'm in the minority

[ezekielbear]

obviously....and yes, obviously this win today is annoying, frustrating, and upsetting....but at the same time...it's not the end of the world.

Many of us have become so spoiled with the Kings recent good play.

This is a franchise that went 19 years without a winning record. Many of us watched a good number of those years and some of the more unlucky ones watched them all.

It sucks with the lack of light at the end of the tunnel...there is no doubt about that. However, while upsetting, who knows what will happen. This draft is very questionable in the lotto other then Kevin and Greg.

Be glad we have owners and a GM that will get the Kings on track in a few years...

We've had one losing season...maybe might have two, even 3...

But that's a lot better then 20 years straight of losing seasons.

 

[Jerryaki]

and perhaps this is year 1 of another 19 year streak. that's how much confidence this front office has inspired in me these past few seasons.

and since i was fortunate enough to become a kings fan at the height of the golden age, i am at least glad that now i will know the suffering of some of the old-timers around here.

 

[ezekielbear]

and perhaps this is year 1 of another 19 year streak. that's how much confidence this front office has inspired in me these past few seasons.

I have a feeling it's not. lol

 

[BMiller52]

This team is hopeless IMO.

 

[Jerryaki]

I have a feeling it's not. lol

perhaps you should hang onto that feeling until the offseason is up...unless of course you can still feel the same optimism when we sign pavel podkolzine with the midlevel this summer, and then trade for, i dunno, malik rose or someone.

 

[ezekielbear]

Lol, one bad season and so many are running to the bridge.

 

[Rockmeister]

Sorry ezekielbear, you are in the minority. I really wished I could get my $$ money back for my season tickets. This win today really took away with the little hope I had for the Kings getting better.

 

[ezekielbear]

perhaps you should hang onto that feeling until the offseason is up...unless of course you can still feel the same optimism when we sign pavel podkolzine with the midlevel this summer, and then trade for, i dunno, malik rose or someone.

Well, I watched us draft Pervis, I watched when Officer Olden Polynice was our best big man, when Walt Williams was our 2nd best player, when Antoine Carr lead us in scoring, and when winning 25 games was a good season.

So, I think I've had enough of that.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

obviously....and yes, obviously this win today is annoying, frustrating, and upsetting....but at the same time...it's not the end of the world.

It sure as hell isn't something to be optimistic about.

Many of us have become so spoiled with the Kings recent good play.

No comment.

This is a franchise that went 19 years without a winning record. Many of us watched a good number of those years and some of the more unlucky ones watched them all.

Your numbers are more than a little bit off: if you're talking Kings-era franchise history, then we've only had thirteen losing seasons, until now. And, if you're talking about all-time franchise history, then that number is closer to forty. In fact, there are pretty much only two coaches in Kings franchise history that have coached this team to a winning record throughout their overall tenure with the Kings: Les Harrison and Rick Adelman.

It sucks with the lack of light at the end of the tunnel...there is no doubt about that. However, while upsetting, who knows what will happen. This draft is very questionable in the lotto other then Kevin and Greg.

And therein lies your problem: the whole point about this draft is that just about every knowledgeable basketball entity in the country agrees that this is going to be very probably the deepest draft in ten years or more. Most people feel that anybody going in the top 6-8 of this draft is going to be a lock to be a Star, capital S, or a Superstar-quality player. And several other prospects are expected to be quality long-term contributors in the league... but we don't need a quality long-term contributor, we need a Star, which is why so many people have wanted this team to lose games to get better draft position.

Be glad we have owners and a GM that will get the Kings on track in a few years...

Have we? I'm not sure about that in the least. Of course, to be fair, I haven't had one lick of faith in this front office since February 23rd, 2005...

We've had one losing season...maybe might have two, even 3...

Maybe, he says...

But that's a lot better then 20 years straight of losing seasons.

I'm sure it is; who's ever done that?

 

[Jerryaki]

Lol, one bad season and so many are running to the bridge.

wow, are you suggesting that the summer of ostertag, the spectacular reef and bonzi offseason, and the fantabulous salmons and mo taylor haul of this year are causes for celebration and optimism? really? i was mildly amused at the optimism but now i'm just bewildered.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

wow, are you suggesting that the summer of ostertag, the spectacular reef and bonzi offseason, and the fantabulous salmons and mo taylor haul of this year are causes for celebration and optimism? really? i was mildly amused at the optimism but now i'm just bewildered.

Precisely: we may have only had one losing season, but we've been "losing" for some time now. And that's another reason why so many fans want this team blown up and rebooted, starting with the draft: as bad as Musselman is as a head coach, this deconstruction is three or four years in the making.

 

[ezekielbear]

Ah. Right.

Every season should be 55-60 wins and/or always be an elite level team.

My fault.

*eyeroll*

Things don't last forever...

They have to be rebuilt.

And, that takes more then a season or two.

You could root for the Hawks and really understand what it's like to have a crappy front office.

 

[Jerryaki]

Ah. Right.

Every season should be 55-60 wins and/or always be an elite level team.

RC Buford would agree with you.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Ah. Right.

Every season should be 55-60 wins and/or always be an elite level team.

My fault.

*eyeroll*

Things don't last forever...

They have to be rebuilt.

And, that takes more then a season or two.

You could root for the Hawks and really understand what it's like to have a crappy front office.

I have strong ties to Georgia; what makes you so sure I don't? I'll tell you this much: due to geographical considerations, I've been to a hell of a lot more Hawks games in my day than I have Kings games. Wizards games, too.

Is there some rule I'm not aware of that Kings Fans can like the Kings only? It's not like I like the gd lakers or something... I also like the Bobcats; you have a problem with that, too?

Regarding your other comment, if you seriously don't know the difference between being dissatisfied that your team isn't an "elite level 55/60-win team" and being dissatisfied that you have a directionless team that apparently isn't going to make any serious attempt to establish a direction, then we have nothing more to discuss on the matter.

I've been a Kings Fan since 1989. From the east coast. And if you don't think that following a losing team from the other side of the country (or, as it was during my first three years in the Navy, from the other side of the world) without the benefit of the internet or Sportscenter doesn't take dedication, you should try it. That aside, your apparent belief that Kings Fans are spoiled because they don't like losing has to be either facetious or misguided, and here's why: You keep talking like this team suddenly went bad overnight, and now fans are revolting because OMGZNOPLAYOFFFFZZZ~!, and that's not even remotely accurate. This isn't frustration with a team that just suddenly became bad overnight, this is frustration with a team that has been going BACKWARDS for three years in a row now. And doesn't appear to want to move forward.

And, seriously, can we please finally incinerate this straw man that has been created by anti-draft people who seem to want to think that pro-draft people actually think that getting a high draft pick equates to an overnight turnaround. No pro-draft/pro-tank person has ever said that on this board, so why do anti-draft people keep manufacturing that argument to refute? Of course you can't rebuild overnight (unless you're the gd lakers, and catch all the breaks); everybody knows that. But don't fool yourself into thinking that it can, either quickly or easily, be done without a quality draft pick. If it's ever really been done without one.

 

[Kingzrool]

I am going to jump in with EBear here.

The Kings pick will most likely have nill affect on next season's outcome as he will get minimal to no PT. This hanging on every game to lose and get a better draft pick is getting a little old when you take that into consideration.

And he is right, fans are jumping ship. Has everyone forgotten that the Malloofs let RA go because they wanted a championship? Has that much changed in one year?

They do have $$ and if they want a championship they will need to spend some. And it is bogus that some will not recognize that they will spend the cash if they really feel it is worth it.

Look for an intense offseason with GP looking to create a championship team out of what is available. The Malloofs are not patient enough to allow for several years of suckiness, even more than 1 IMO. Youth developement will not be a priority just like this year.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

The Kings pick will most likely have nill affect on next season's outcome as he will get minimal to no PT...

Right... because that always happens.

Unless you're a team like Detroit, that already has a championship-caliber team in place, you play your lottery picks. Coaches that refuse to play lottery picks tend to find themselves unemployed.

 

[ezekielbear]

RC Buford would agree with you.

The only thing Mr. Buford would agree with is the luck the Spurs got with David Robinson going down with an injury and being lucky enough to have Duncan in the draft.

The Spurs situation (for the length of it) was nothing more then luck.

I have strong ties to Georgia; what makes you so sure I don't? I'll tell you this much: due to geographical considerations, I've been to a hell of a lot more Hawks games in my day than I have Kings games. Wizards games, too.

Is there some rule I'm not aware of that Kings Fans can like the Kings only? It's not like I like the gd lakers or something... I also like the Bobcats; you have a problem with that, too?

Regarding your other comment, if you seriously don't know the difference between being dissatisfied that your team isn't an "elite level 55/60-win team" and being dissatisfied that you have a directionless team that apparently isn't going to make any serious attempt to establish a direction, then we have nothing more to discuss on the matter.

I've been a Kings Fan since 1989. From the east coast. And if you don't think that following a losing team from the other side of the country (or, as it was during my first three years in the Navy, from the other side of the world) without the benefit of the internet or Sportscenter doesn't take dedication, you should try it. That aside, your apparent belief that Kings Fans are spoiled because they don't like losing has to be either facetious or misguided, and here's why: You keep talking like this team suddenly went bad overnight, and now fans are revolting because OMGZNOPLAYOFFFFZZZ~!, and that's not even remotely accurate. This isn't frustration with a team that just suddenly became bad overnight, this is frustration with a team that has been going BACKWARDS for three years in a row now. And doesn't appear to want to move forward.

And, seriously, can we please finally incinerate this straw man that has been created by anti-draft people who seem to want to think that pro-draft people actually think that getting a high draft pick equates to an overnight turnaround. No pro-draft/pro-tank person has ever said that on this board, so why do anti-draft people keep manufacturing that argument to refute? Of course you can't rebuild overnight (unless you're the gd lakers, and catch all the breaks); everybody knows that. But don't fool yourself into thinking that it can, either quickly or easily, be done without a quality draft pick. If it's ever really been done without one.

I don't live in Sacramento so....?

I totally understand the difference, but also realize...it's not always going to be peachy. Things happen. That's the way the ball bounces. There are moves and choices I don't like right now with the Kings. There were moves and choices I didn't like when they won 60 games. That's being a fan.

They've went backwards for a few years...and...?

It happens. You can't always stay on top and you can't always stop a sinking ship. Sometimes you have to ride it out....and wait for the next ship to be built and leave port.

I've rooted for the team since just about the same time you have, about 88...and I enjoyed watching those Kings much more then these Kings, by a large margin.

That said...I'm far from all hope is lost. It's gonna take a few years...but oh well, that's the way it is.

I'll take 2-3 losing seasons to have 9-10 straight playoff and eventual Championship quality.

 

[Kingzrool]

And, seriously, can we please finally incinerate this straw man that has been created by anti-draft people who seem to want to think that pro-draft people actually think that getting a high draft pick equates to an overnight turnaround.

Glad to hear that you do not. But it really does seem like some around here think that the draft will be the savoir and each and every notch that Kings fall back in the lottery is another step closer to hell. IMO, the whole thing is being overplayed for lack of anything else exciting in Kings nation.

I am sticking with minimal PT for Kings pick and all effective changes in roster made through trade and aquisition, bookmark it.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You're still ignoring what I and others are saying: it's not a question of whether or not we're willing to accept being bad in the short term to be good in the long term, and it never was. In fact, pro-draft/pro-tank people around here have always been in favor of short-term losses for long-term wins, so how you've managed to draw a completely opposite conclusion escapes me.

It happens. You can't always stay on top and you can't always stop a sinking ship. Sometimes you have to ride it out....and wait for the next ship to be built and leave port.

Once again, you miss the point. People on this board have been calling for a rebuild for a year or longer; this hasn't happened overnight. All of this negative feedback really started to build up over the past several weeks, when management has come out and stated that they still think that this is a playoff team, and that this team was still trying to reload on the fly, rather than actually attempt a rebuild. I defy you to reconcile management's stated intentions of trying to make the playoffs THIS year with the belief that they're actually even interested in making any progress.

Basically, you have your arguments crossed; it's the pro-draft people that are in favor of a long-term rebuild, not the other way around. On the other hand, you also have to understand that just because we know that it's not going to happen overnight doesn't mean that we have blind faith that it's going to happen eventually.

Now that I think about it, I think that's where the disconnect is: people like you seem to think that pro-draft people are impatient because you think we want the team to improve overnight, when the truth is that pro-draft people realize, and have realized from the beginning, that it's not going to be an overnight process, and are frustrated with management because they do not appear to have a goal, nor a plan for reaching said goal. Just saying "well, it's going to take some time" isn't going to cut it, because you don't just drift along in mediocrity and then get better by osmosis: you have to have a plan at some point. You have to be willing to say, "this is where I want to be in three years, five years, ten years, and THIS is how I'm going to get there." You have to have a plan. And most of us are frustrated because this organization has demonstrated a distinct lack thereof for three years.

And, it's because of their lack of a plan that we're regressing: even the aimless meandering that we did for fifteen years was better than that.

 

[Bricklayer]

A) this entire thread makes absolutely no sense, as being aware, or not, of the 20 previous years of suckiness has absolutely NOTHING to do with being upset by current events. In fact if it did have anything to do wiht it, it should make you MORE upset with recent events because you know how bad it can get and just how ****ing hard it is to EVER get yourself in a position to nab a franchise turnign talent. And then to blow it...just bleeping morons. I've had toe cheese brighter than this crew.

B) quite obviously the "the draft pick will get minimal PT so why sweat it" line of reasoning is also sloppy to the point of nonsense. Cart before the horse. Obviously each and every draft slot you slip increases the chances of that outcome, that is precisely WHY we are sweating it. And if you think that a Greg Oden or Kevin Durant would have come into town and gotten minimal PT, you are flat out nutty.

C) The Maloofs CANNOT spend big money. And maybe if somebody doesn't know the cap rules, they won't get that. But the NBA prevents teams from just throwing big money around if they are over the cap. That was part c -- or maybe it was d, e, f, z, I've lost count -- of our stupidity. We have no cap room. Completely failed to free it up. Hence unless we get "lucky" enough to have Mike Bibby bail on us and activate the escape clause in his contract, all we can spend this year is the MLE. The only other way the Maloofs can spend money is by dropping extensions on our current trash. Oh yay -- that's probably the route to winning right there. Best that can "hoped" for is that maybe the Maloofs can convince Larry Brown to come out of retirement to bilk another franchise out of $10+ million a season.

 

[ezekielbear]

You're still ignoring what I and others are saying: it's not a question of whether or not we're willing to accept being bad in the short term to be good in the long term, and it never was. In fact, pro-draft/pro-tank people around here have always been in favor of short-term losses for long-term wins, so how you've managed to draw a completely opposite conclusion escapes me.

Once again, you miss the point. People on this board have been calling for a rebuild for a year or longer; this hasn't happened overnight. All of this negative feedback really started to build up over the past several weeks, when management has come out and stated that they still think that this is a playoff team, and that this team was still trying to reload on the fly, rather than actually attempt a rebuild. I defy you to reconcile management's stated intentions of trying to make the playoffs THIS year with the belief that they're actually even interested in making any progress.

Basically, you have your arguments crossed; it's the pro-draft people that are in favor of a long-term rebuild, not the other way around. On the other hand, you also have to understand that just because we know that it's not going to happen overnight doesn't mean that we have blind faith that it's going to happen eventually.

Now that I think about it, I think that's where the disconnect is: people like you seem to think that pro-draft people are impatient because you think we want the team to improve overnight, when the truth is that pro-draft people realize, and have realized from the beginning, that it's not going to be an overnight process, and are frustrated with management because they do not appear to have a goal, nor a plan for reaching said goal. Just saying "well, it's going to take some time" isn't going to cut it, because you don't just drift along in mediocrity and then get better by osmosis: you have to have a plan at some point. You have to be willing to say, "this is where I want to be in three years, five years, ten years, and THIS is how I'm going to get there." You have to have a plan. And most of us are frustrated because this organization has demonstrated a distinct lack thereof for three years.

And, it's because of their lack of a plan that we're regressing: even the aimless meandering that we did for fifteen years was better than that.

I'm not missing anything. I have a different view then you...and that's fine. We're allowed that. I'm not telling you you're wrong...you have some valid points.

I do think the Kings have a plan and are on their way to that. I'm lucky enough to have some insight from some people within the organization, so, that shapes my opinion in a different view then yours...and that's okay.

Do you really think the Maloofs and Petrie are okay with all of this? I know you don't...and this type of situation wont last long, IMO.

 

[nbrans]

Yeah, I'm usually an optimist, but this win has me really, really pissed off. There is a huge difference between a 6th pick and a 10th pick, not to mention the added chance at getting Durant or Oden. You know how an organization loses a game? They send Mark Madsen out to shoot 7 three pointers, like the TWolves did last year. They sit their best players with phantom injuries. I mean, it's stupid, it degrades the game, but whatever.

It's not hard to lose a couple of games, the Kings have been pretty damn good at it this year.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Glad to hear that you do not. But it really does seem like some around here think that the draft will be the savoir and each and every notch that Kings fall back in the lottery is another step closer to hell. IMO, the whole thing is being overplayed for lack of anything else exciting in Kings nation.

Then you don't read very well. Or you're getting your information elsewhere. Because all of the prominent and knowledgeable pro-draft posters on this board have repeatedly expressed their understanding that this team cannot be rebuilt by draft alone, just like it can't be rebuilt by trade alone, just like it can't be rebuilt by free agency alone. And we also understand that it can't be done overnight. But, we also understand that to build a championship team, you have to have a Star, capital S, player, which we don't have. And ain't nobody trading us a Star for what we've got. Our best realistic chance to get a Star is in the lottery. And, as it was in 2003 this is PRECISELY the sort of draft year you want to have a bad team for.

No one of consequence on this board has ever stated that they think the draft is the end-all and be-all.

I am sticking with minimal PT for Kings pick and all effective changes in roster made through trade and aquisition, bookmark it.

If the Kings somehow luck into a Top-3 pick, and the coach does not play said pick, then said coach will be fired. And you can bookmark that.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Do you really think the Maloofs and Petrie are okay with all of this? I know you don't...

Do you now?

You have much more faith in Petrie and the Maloofs than I at this point.

 

[Warhawk]

Then you don't read very well. Or you're getting your information elsewhere. Because all of the prominent and knowledgeable pro-draft posters on this board have repeatedly expressed their understanding that this team cannot be rebuilt by draft alone, just like it can't be rebuilt by trade alone, just like it can't be rebuilt by free agency alone. And we also understand that it can't be done overnight. But, we also understand that to build a championship team, you have to have a Star, capital S, player, which we don't have. And ain't nobody trading us a Star for what we've got. Our best realistic chance to get a Star is in the lottery. And, as it was in 2003 this is PRECISELY the sort of draft year you want to have a bad team for.

No one of consequence on this board has ever stated that they think the draft is the end-all and be-all.

Exactly.

This coach has been bumbling all year to a really sh**y record and now that we are out of the playoffs we start winning when every win could put this franchise 1 year farther behind in the rebuilding process.

For instance, look at the 2003 draft mentioned by Slim.

Would you rather be drafting 5th (Dwayne Wade) or 10th (Jarvis Hayes)? Because the win tonight may have just sealed us to this kind of fate - dropping 5 lottery positions with one meaningless win.

It also really screwed up our chances to get in the top 3.

Idiots. The front office is filled with idiots.

 

[Vlade4GM]

You're still ignoring what I and others are saying: it's not a question of whether or not we're willing to accept being bad in the short term to be good in the long term, and it never was. In fact, pro-draft/pro-tank people around here have always been in favor of short-term losses for long-term wins, so how you've managed to draw a completely opposite conclusion escapes me.

Once again, you miss the point. People on this board have been calling for a rebuild for a year or longer; this hasn't happened overnight. All of this negative feedback really started to build up over the past several weeks, when management has come out and stated that they still think that this is a playoff team, and that this team was still trying to reload on the fly, rather than actually attempt a rebuild. I defy you to reconcile management's stated intentions of trying to make the playoffs THIS year with the belief that they're actually even interested in making any progress.

Basically, you have your arguments crossed; it's the pro-draft people that are in favor of a long-term rebuild, not the other way around. On the other hand, you also have to understand that just because we know that it's not going to happen overnight doesn't mean that we have blind faith that it's going to happen eventually.

Now that I think about it, I think that's where the disconnect is: people like you seem to think that pro-draft people are impatient because you think we want the team to improve overnight, when the truth is that pro-draft people realize, and have realized from the beginning, that it's not going to be an overnight process, and are frustrated with management because they do not appear to have a goal, nor a plan for reaching said goal. Just saying "well, it's going to take some time" isn't going to cut it, because you don't just drift along in mediocrity and then get better by osmosis: you have to have a plan at some point. You have to be willing to say, "this is where I want to be in three years, five years, ten years, and THIS is how I'm going to get there." You have to have a plan. And most of us are frustrated because this organization has demonstrated a distinct lack thereof for three years.

And, it's because of their lack of a plan that we're regressing: even the aimless meandering that we did for fifteen years was better than that.

Dude, you just threw it down to perfection. Excellent job!!

 

[Kingzrool]

Then you don't read very well. Or you're getting your information elsewhere. Because all of the prominent and knowledgeable pro-draft posters on this board have repeatedly expressed their understanding that this team cannot be rebuilt by draft alone, just like it can't be rebuilt by trade alone, just like it can't be rebuilt by free agency alone. And we also understand that it can't be done overnight. But, we also understand that to build a championship team, you have to have a Star, capital S, player, which we don't have. And ain't nobody trading us a Star for what we've got. Our best realistic chance to get a Star is in the lottery. And, as it was in 2003 this is PRECISELY the sort of draft year you want to have a bad team for.

No one of consequence on this board has ever stated that they think the draft is the end-all and be-all.

If the Kings somehow luck into a Top-3 pick, and the coach does not play said pick, then said coach will be fired. And you can bookmark that.

Speaking for myself, I understand the rebuilding process and I am on the record for being all for playing the youth and benching the vets and losing games as a result of that. IMO youth developement is even more important than the lottery. I can relate to being ok or even happy with games lost.

What I just cannot relate to is getting upset over games won. Hearing fans really mad over a win and hearing Artest say he wished for a loss is over the line for me. Just seems like bad sportmanship or unprofessionalism or just plain sad.

 

[Superman]

I don't like tanking; in fact, I hate it. I think it ruins the competitive balance of the League, and it's not a characteristic synonymous with a proud franchise.

That having been said, since we are relegated the Lottery this year, there's no sense ruining our chances at getting a top five pick. Whether the Draft is going to set us ahead or not, I think everyone would agree that the higher up you pick, the better your chances of getting a player who can contribute to success. And on a team like ours, there's no reason why a rookie would only see limited action; it's not like there are a ton of players on the team who would warrant extended minutes every night.

I'm probably in the minority in that I don't like seeing my team lose games, even if it's probably best for the future of the franchise. However, I know why it's important that we sacrifice the remainder of the season in order to get a leg up on getting back to where we were, in contention for a championship.

 

[ezekielbear]

Do you now?

You have much more faith in Petrie and the Maloofs than I at this point.

Yea, I do.

They are going to make wrong choices, it's just part of the game.

I'm glad we have a knowledgable GM and owners that care about the team. I understand it's a business to them...and while that sucks...that's the way it is.

There are lots of owners that really...could care less for the most part.

Could always be worse.

We could have McHale running the ship...or Ainge.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

At least Ainge will draft a big man...

As far as I'm concerned, Petrie is no longer entitled to my unconditional support. He lost that right when he traded Webber for "moveable" pieces of garbage.