Hypothetical Roster Question

[UclaKingsFan]

Reading through a lot of the threads, there seems to be a fair amount of dissatisfaction with Peja's play this year. STRICTLY HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, if for some reason Petrie saw it fit to try to deal Peja, who do you think we could get for him? In other words, what would be fair value for Peja at this point in his career and at this point in his contract, who would want him as an outside shooter as they possibly make a push for the finals, and who would you settle for in a trade?

Personally, I think Milwaukee and Indiana would be potential trading partners as they look strong in the East. In those cases, I would settle for Bobby Simmons or Danny Granger, although filler would have to be inserted to match up the salaries. Those two players bring intangibles to the court that Peja does not, i.e. rebounding, defense, etc, although they are both inferior shooters to Peja.

Again, I'm not advocating this, I'm just throwing out the question as a hypothetical due to the amount of criticism thrown Peja's way so far. In addition, I don't want to hear, "Trading Peja would be stupid," or "I would never trade Peja," etc., as I am not interested in whether or not you would trade him; I'm just interested in what you want in return, and what you would actually settle for if Petrie did try to trade Peja in the middle of this year.

 

[VF21]

Okay, I'm going to step in RIGHT UP FRONT and ask that people try very hard not to turn this into a thread about "Peja bashing" or "Peja homerism."

This is a legitimate question we are, IMHO, going to have to face sooner rather than later.

I would trade Peja - but I'm not sure for whom. In my case, it would be a case of another team making an offer and me weighing it to see whether or not I'd accept it.

(On a related note, I just watched the Ch. 3 news. They interviewed Peja, who looked shell shocked. He actually came out and admitted there was a lack of effort, including HIS OWN, on both ends of the court. At this point, I have to be honest and say I think it's a little too late...)

I will say that I think it's a little soon to be judging the "dissatisfaction with Peja's play" but I fear that if he doesn't get his head out his nether regions that it's going to become this year's "Trade Webber!"

...

And, despite my harsh criticisms at times, that makes me a little sad.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think if Peja is moved, it will be packaged with someone else for a "superstar" that is on a bad team, and/or wants out.

KG? maybe!

 

[VF21]

I would accept Ron Artest, or Tayshaun Prince ( ), or the aforementioned Kevin Garnett (well, doh) or Manu Ginobili. The problem isn't going to be who we'd accept, unfortunately, It might well boil down to what's the best we can get... streaky shooters aren't exactly hot trade properties.

 

[UclaKingsFan]

I would accept Ron Artest, or Tayshaun Prince ( ), or the aforementioned Kevin Garnett (well, doh) or Manu Ginobili. The problem isn't going to be who we'd accept, unfortunately, It might well boil down to what's the best we can get... streaky shooters aren't exactly hot trade properties.

You're exactly right about it boiling down to what's the best we can get. I guess I should have phrased the question more specifically. We all would take a KG, a Lebron, or a Kobe in a deal for Peja. What I meant to ask everyone was, what do you think other teams will offer for Peja, and what is the minimum you would accept in a deal for Peja at this juncture? That's why I threw Simmons and Granger out there. I think its possible they would be offered, and its something I would definitely consider taking.

 

[SacTownKid]

Minimum? Hmmm... interesting.

I would consider a deal involving any of these guys.

Shane Battier
Ricky Davis
Al Harrington
Antawn Jamison

Or maybe even go after a big guy (i.e. Gadzuric) , and move Kenny Thomas into the starting rotation.

All of those deals would have to be the right one and have things added in but I would consider them.

 

[Bricklayer]

Interestingly I am still higher on Peja than some of you appear to be. of course my "height" on this issue has a well known ceiling, but at this point I just don't really see the point in trading him away for another tweener forward so we can corner the market on them, or for another player that needs the ball all the time. Shane Battier might be able to help, but parlaying Peja into Shane...that's just got bite you in the butt written all over it.

By far my favorite trade Peja scenarios at this point are 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 type deals to move up in class and nab a true stud. If we deal him one for just one guy, then Geoff basically really blew it, because we could have done SO much better on that front last summer. But as the featured part of a multiplayer deal, maybe we can still bring back a great player of some ilk, rebalance the lineup, and significantly cure what ails us in a way that merely a one for one swap of Peja for a lesser or equal talent is unlikely to.

Second and third favorite are moving him for a potential young stud -- just an attempt to save the situation and dodge the contract, or a mega-roleplayer type who plays a radically different role.

 

[yanon]

Even if Peja performs better later on, the Kings should still trade him simply because he is an one-dimensional guy who doesn't work hard on other aspects of his game. The reason the Kings are a weak defensive team is because they have too many players who aren't atheletic--e.g. Brad, Peja, and Bibby. Ideally, you want an atheletic stopper in the low post to cover for other player's weak defense. However, the Kings can't trade away Brad because a good passing big man is essential to the princeton offense. Is there a good passing big man out there with good defense skill? So, Brad stays unless Adelman abandons the princeton offense (highly unlikely).

Bibby is almost untradable because his contract is huge and a good defensive point guard will not help much in guarding opposing front court players. So, the Kings will not change much even if they trade Bibby for a defensive-minded point guard.

So, Peja is the only one that is tradable. An atheletic small forward can help the Kings in rebounding and provide some defensive help on the perimeter or the low post . Unfortunately, the Kings didn't take advantage of the situation when Artest was in the dog house last season. Artest could help this Kings team tremendously. His defense is top notch. He can score and rebound pretty well. Basically, he is exactly the player who can turn this team around.

 

[Bricklayer]

Midseason hypothetical trades should be fun since there is roughly a 1 in 1 billion chance of getting it right. If you're going to do it, make it something original, something fun, something a little dangerous for all parties. Making big assumptions that you convince Atlanta of the Nash effect and help them complete their youth movement otherwise (and get Johnson back over to OG where he belongs), and you convince Denver that Peja or Melo can play the OG (and don't mind seeing them maybe beat you):

Atlanta Trade Breakdown

Outgoing
Tyronn Lue
6-0 PG from Nebraska
13.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 5.4 apg in 31.2 minutes

Tony Delk
6-2 PG from Kentucky
11.9 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 23.9 minutes

Josh Smith
6-9 SG from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
9.7 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.7 apg in 27.7 minutes

Incoming
Andre Miller
6-2 PG from Utah
13.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 6.9 apg in 34.8 minutes

Jamal Sampson
6-11 PF from California
3.4 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.3 minutes

Ronnie Price
6-2 from Utah Valley State
No games yet played in 2004/05

Change in team outlook: -18.1 ppg, -1.3 rpg, and -1.7 apg.

Denver Trade Breakdown

Outgoing
Andre Miller
6-2 PG from Utah
13.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 6.9 apg in 34.8 minutes

Eduardo Najera
6-8 SF from Oklahoma
6.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.1 minutes

Nene Hilario
6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign)
9.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.9 minutes

Incoming
Tyronn Lue
6-0 PG from Nebraska
13.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 5.4 apg in 31.2 minutes

Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes

Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
11.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 28.6 minutes

Change in team outlook: +14.8 ppg, -1.8 rpg, and -0.4 apg.

Sacramento Trade Breakdown

Outgoing
Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes

Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
11.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 28.6 minutes

Jamal Sampson
6-11 PF from California
3.4 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.3 minutes

Ronnie Price
6-2 from Utah Valley State
No games yet played in 2004/05

Incoming

Tony Delk
6-2 PG from Kentucky
11.9 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 23.9 minutes

Josh Smith
6-9 SG from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
9.7 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.7 apg in 27.7 minutes

Eduardo Najera
6-8 SF from Oklahoma
6.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.1 minutes

Nene Hilario
6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign)
9.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.9 minutes

Change in team outlook: +3.3 ppg, +3.1 rpg, and +2.1 apg.

Successful Scenario Due to Denver and Sacramento being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Denver and Sacramento had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

We get two potential young studs, a dirty roleplayer, and a familiar veteran shooter for the end of the bench, Denver gets its shooter, a frontcourt replacement for Nene, and clears up its PG logjam, and Atlanta gets a true major PG, gets JJ back to his natural OG, and clears up its young SF logjam somewhat (Childress becomes SF, and Miller, Johnson, Childress, Harrington, Pachulia has a chance to actually make some noise). See? Not so hard on paper. ; )

 

[Gary]

I would trade Peja, and filler for Artest.

Than take Thomas, and Williamson and trade them both for a backup type player that WANTS to play backup.

 

[starks]

Trade peja for artest?...why indy would do that?...at this moment it’s unrealistic.I would be the happiest kings' fan if can somehow trade biby for arenas...but also unrealistic....so I guess we are stuck with them at least until the all-star break

 

[sidney]

Midseason hypothetical trades should be fun since there is roughly a 1 in 1 billion chance of getting it right. If you're going to do it, make it something original, something fun, something a little dangerous for all parties.

ok then. Peja for Terrell Owens. I hear he's available and the Eagles need a backup kicker.

 

[nbrans]

We get two potential young studs, a dirty roleplayer, and a familiar veteran shooter for the end of the bench, Denver gets its shooter, a frontcourt replacement for Nene, and clears up its PG logjam, and Atlanta gets a true major PG, gets JJ back to his natural OG, and clears up its young SF logjam somewhat (Childress becomes SF, and Miller, Johnson, Childress, Harrington, Pachulia has a chance to actually make some noise). See? Not so hard on paper. ; )

Bricklayer, you are the King of trade proposals that make you go, "Hmmm..." I like it!! This trade would be great.

SAR is an extreemly valuable trade piece because he's so good and so affordable.

Peja and SAR for KG anyone?

 

[SLAB]

Peja and Corliss for Antawn Jamison?

Realgm says it works!

Antawn gives us rebounding we depratly need, while for Washington, they can slide Caron Butler to the 2, and have a deep and potent lineup. (At least at PG/SG/SF.) Also, they would get scrapy and hustle play from their bigs.

PG: Arenas---Chucky Atkins
SG: Butler---Antonio Daniels
SF: Peja---Jarvis Hayes---Corliss
PF: Thomas---Jefferies
C: Haywood---Booth/Ruffin

While for the Kings...

PG: Bibby---Hart
SG: Bonzi---Martin
SF: Jamison---Cisco
PF: SAR---Thomas
C: Miller---Skinner

 

[PFFFT!!]

I would trade Peja, Bibby, and Thomas + a first rounder for KG to be honest. This team is in dire need of a floor leader that can be more consistent.

 

[PFFFT!!]

Even if Peja performs better later on, the Kings should still trade him simply because he is an one-dimensional guy who doesn't work hard on other aspects of his game. The reason the Kings are a weak defensive team is because they have too many players who aren't atheletic--e.g. Brad, Peja, and Bibby. Ideally, you want an atheletic stopper in the low post to cover for other player's weak defense. However, the Kings can't trade away Brad because a good passing big man is essential to the princeton offense. Is there a good passing big man out there with good defense skill? So, Brad stays unless Adelman abandons the princeton offense (highly unlikely).

Bibby is almost untradable because his contract is huge and a good defensive point guard will not help much in guarding opposing front court players. So, the Kings will not change much even if they trade Bibby for a defensive-minded point guard.

So, Peja is the only one that is tradable. An atheletic small forward can help the Kings in rebounding and provide some defensive help on the perimeter or the low post . Unfortunately, the Kings didn't take advantage of the situation when Artest was in the dog house last season. Artest could help this Kings team tremendously. His defense is top notch. He can score and rebound pretty well. Basically, he is exactly the player who can turn this team around.

Then trade Peja and Miller for KG.

 

[Zyphen]

Peja's stock needs to go up a lot more before we trade him. Petrie should tell Adelman to make Brad and Bonzi Peja's personal assist men. It's much like how people hire decoraters to spruce up their homes before they sell them off for 10% over the market price. We were just too stupid to catch the real-estate bubble before it burst back in 03. Our "decorators" then were already trained and willing.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

The whole Nene thing is interesting because he WILL NOT be in Denver next year and with Reef signing a 5 year deal at very discounted rate there is no reason to every move Reef absent something significant happening. Get Nene or another legit PF (KG) and then just move Reef over to SF. I would also not be entirely surprised if Biby was somehow involved in a deal at some point, but I'm not advocating that.

 

[playmaker0017]

It's hard to say what I would trade Peja for. He's a great shooter, who - no matter how you box it - you won't get your money's worth.

I think there is a good chance Peja will not be a King at the midseason point. Especially if we continue to have the results we've had lately.

I'd love a young player in return.

I'd go all out for a guard, which is where I think we are lacking the most actual talent. This would mean that there would have to be a package deal.

So, this is too tricky to answer. You got your love for Peja and what he's meant for the Kings mingling with what you perceive his value to be.

It's tough.

I wouldn't be very high on the KG list. He's a GREAT player ... PHENOMINAL. But, losing Miller & Peja isn't worth it, in my opinion.

 

[yanon]

If it weren't for the concern about the milage on KG's body, I would trade Miller & Peja for a legit superstar in a heart beat. Most teams that win a championship has a superstar on their team. Anyway, while we are day dreaming, we might as well throwing another hypothetical scenario--Peja, Bibby, and a 1st round draft pick for KG. Can you guys imagine a front court with Brad, KG, and SAR? There is no team in this league that can match up to a front court like that. All you need is to add a stable point guard, who can bring the ball up, and a defensive-minded SG. The Kings will be a legit title contender again.

 

[Ramon]

What about...

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes
Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
11.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 28.6 minutes
Incoming
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: -9.8 ppg, -4.2 rpg, and +0.5 apg.


Boston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes
Incoming
Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes
Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
11.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 28.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: +9.8 ppg, +4.2 rpg, and -0.5 apg.



Successful Scenario
Due to Sacramento and Boston being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Sacramento and Boston had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

[playmaker0017]

I'd hate that trade.

I've just never been impressed with Pierce.

He's a high volume shooter and a low percentage shooter. He doesn't play the game with a high IQ.

He's improved a lot in the past two years, in my opinion, but I still just don't like him as "the man" on this squad.

 

[Kings113]

I'd trade Peja for any of these guys (main piece(s) ):

KG/Battier/Josh Smith/Harrington/Childress/Nocioni/Deng/Jamison/Artest/Pierce/Simmons/Harpring

Just to say simply, I'm not writing him off/done with him because of his start. If this keeps going a lot, till Feb., then yeah.

 

[SCKingsfan]

Isn't Nene out for the season w an injury?

 

[playmaker0017]

Our problem isn't "Peja" ... or lack of a "superstar".

If we traded Peja and Miller for Garnett - we'd have a pretty sparce starting unit and a worse second unit.

Our real big issue is that we don't have a deep bench and that "roleplayer" guy.

 

[Kings113]

Our problem isn't "Peja" ... or lack of a "superstar".

If we traded Peja and Miller for Garnett - we'd have a pretty sparce starting unit and a worse second unit.

Our real big issue is that we don't have a deep bench and that "roleplayer" guy.

Free-agent pool is still solid/decent. It'd be real nice if we got someone. But I think right now, most of it is chemistry with our bench.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

Our problem isn't "Peja" ... or lack of a "superstar".

If we traded Peja and Miller for Garnett - we'd have a pretty sparce starting unit and a worse second unit.

Our real big issue is that we don't have a deep bench and that "roleplayer" guy.

Not so much Peja and Brad for KG, but rather Peja and Mike. Then swing Reef over to the SF and go with Hart/Price or throw in others to get Troy Hudson from the Wolves.

 

[yanon]

We need quality not quantitiy. How many championship teams actually won their titles mainly due to their roleplayers or deep bench? Most championship teams actually won their titles because their #1 and #2 guys were simply dominating or carried the major load for the team. If a team depends on the bench players for success, then it is only a marginal playoff team at best.

 

[Bricklayer]

Our problem isn't "Peja" ... or lack of a "superstar".

If we traded Peja and Miller for Garnett - we'd have a pretty sparce starting unit and a worse second unit.

Our real big issue is that we don't have a deep bench and that "roleplayer" guy.

You think Bibby/Wells/KG/SAR is a sparse starting unit? That's a more talneted starting unit than San Antonio has.

Our talent is too spread out, and too duplicative. We need to concentrate it into one or several superstuds, and to diversify so that we have a good mixtrue of scorers, defenders, passers.

Ironically we came into the season talking about how amazingly DEEP our bench was. But again, its not about depth. You need 8 guys. Need concentration. I'd take Bobby/Hedo/Pollard alone from that '02 team over all of the guys on our current bench put togeher.

 

[CruzDude]

Peja starts slow every year. In past years he had many opportunities to "spot up and shoot" from beyond the arch. He is at his best when he is set and can shoot. He does not now or ever, create his shots.

If you watch, every team puts someone on Peja more than anyone else on the kings, except maybe for Bibby. Keeping Peja occupied takes away his bread-and-butter spot up and shoot scenario. When he went off for 30 in Phoenix, they appeared to leave him alone on the perimeter likes others have not done.

It also seems that the Kings sets so far don't get him open as much or maybe he is trying to do too much. When he does, his scoring falls off.