How to Improve the Defense?

[ppine]

The Kings have managed a lot of improvement on offense under Smart. The transition game is hot and cold. Aganst quality teams like Memphis, Denver, and San Anonio the Kings' look slow in transition defense and have a hard time stopping the ball. The real issue is defense. The glaring weakness is inside in the paint. So how do the Kings' get from last in the NBA allowing the most points per game to somewhere in the middle?

It seems like some of the players: Evans, Salmons, Patterson and Douglas are good defenders. Others like maybe Thornton,Thompson, Johnson, and Hayes are alright defenders. Aldrich has show flashes of changing games with his defense. Some other guys need work. I blame the pee-poor defense on the coach first. What are your ideas for stopping the bleeding of lay-ups and other high percentage shots against the Kings? I miss Dalembert and wonder how much potential Aldrich really has at this level. Team defense is a bunch of learned skills aided by desire and repetion so that the right moves are instinctual and don't take a lot of thought. I would close by saying that if Cousins was a great defender the Kings wouldn't have some many problems defending in the paint. What do you say?

 

[Padrino]

hiring a coach that values defense is clearly the first place to start, complete with a coaching staff that could attempt to repair the kings' absolutely broken pick and roll D. rebounding should be the next order of business. the kings are 25th in the league in total rebounds per game. they're 26th in the league in offensive rebounds ceded to opponents. they give up way too many second chance opportunities, and it puts additional pressure on an already weak defense. snagging a post defender who can rebound well to pair with demarcus cousins would be an excellent step forward...

defensively-minded veterans at the PG and SF positions would be useful, as well. john salmons is, in theory, a decent defender, but he's essentially sleepwalking through his second stint as a king. poor defense from both salmons and isaiah thomas on the wings consistently results in penetration that cousins and jason thompson are unable to adequately cover. tyreke evans may be an above-average man defender, but he's not great in rotation, and he slacks off jump shooters far too often (most likely the result of keith smart's "defensive strategy"). but, when paired with toney douglas on the rare occasion, we see fairly impressive backcourt defense from a team known for the exact opposite. sometimes all a starting unit needs is a defensive captain to help set the tone that drives the rest of the team to compete on that side of the ball...

 

[bajaden]

hiring a coach that values defense is clearly the first place to start, complete with a coaching staff that could attempt to repair the kings' absolutely broken pick and roll D. rebounding should be the next order of business. the kings are 25th in the league in total rebounds per game. they're 26th in the league in offensive rebounds ceded to opponents. they give up way too many second chance opportunities, and it puts additional pressure on an already weak defense. snagging a post defender who can rebound well to pair with demarcus cousins would be an excellent step forward...

defensively-minded veterans at the PG and SF positions would be useful, as well. john salmons is, in theory, a decent defender, but he's essentially sleepwalking through his second stint as a king. poor defense from both salmons and isaiah thomas on the wings consistently results in penetration that cousins and jason thompson are unable to adequately cover. tyreke evans may be an above-average man defender, but he's not great in rotation, and he slacks off jump shooters far too often (most likely the result of keith smart's "defensive strategy"). but, when paired with toney douglas on the rare occasion, we see fairly impressive backcourt defense from a team known for the exact opposite. sometimes all a starting unit needs is a defensive captain to help set the tone that drives the rest of the team to compete on that side of the ball...

Were playing a cheat defense. All our perimeter players cheat off their man when he doesn't have the ball. Too often there's confusion as to where the help is susposed to come from, and we end up with three defenders all in the area of the ball, leaving one, if not two players open on the other team. All it takes is one player not to do his job rotating properly, and the whole thing starts to break down, along with the trust, necessary to play good team defense. The Spurs are a good defensive team, but they're hardly loaded with great individual defenders. They bring in new players year after year, but they still never miss a beat. Thats what good coaching will do for you. Proper instruction along with the right fitting pieces will make a huge improvement in our defense.

Having a good rim protector doesn't hurt either. The one thing I was curious about, and it never happened, was how Cousins and Aldrich would play together. Probably never entered Smarts mind.

 

[rainmaker]

It's tough to answer. Why? Because the roster will most likely look considerably different come Oct and without knowing what the roster will look like we don't know our strengths and weaknesses.

But going on what we know now and making a few changes? Two areas we need improvement are at the PG position to cut off the point of attack and the initial breakdown, as well as more defensive presence in the paint, preferably a rim protector. This is where it's tough to figure where Cole fits in going forward. I want him back. Fills a vital role for a good price or what should be a good price. But the question is where does he get his minutes? We've seen this issue. We have a top 5 center who without a doubt needs more minutes. 32 per game is ridiculous. 36-38 is where Cuz should be. Yet, if only playing either Cuz or Cole at the 5, that leaves 10-12 min for Cole which isn't enough. So, you either have to play one at PF fro stretches, or get a defensive PF in addition to Cole. You can't have your main defensive presence down low only getting the few minutes available when Cuz rests, and the next coach won't be an idiot and limit Cuz's minutes to the extent Smart did. You need a defensive presence down low to play WITH Cuz for stretches.

Our PG position as it currently stands is an issue unless you're like me and want Douglas brought back and given a shot at starting PG next year. But we have a problem cutting off initial penetration with IT at point, that's usually where the initial breakdown starts and causes guys to start helping, switching and that's where gaps open up to be taken advantage of. Many keep looking at guys playing off shooters(a problem) and guys not rotating quickly enough underneath(another problem), but often ignore the initial break down leading to it. And yes, this is the NBA and NBA starting points will break you down from time to time and help defense/rotations are vitally important, but having IT being easily picked off on just about every screen is a huge problem, and some have noticed Douglas does not get hung up on screens nearly to the extent IT does.

IT isn't a terrible defender, he's more physical than you'd think looking at his stature, he's feisty and can get a few steels(in part because he's lower and closer to the dribble), but in a team concept he is a liability. How PPine starts a thread on improving defense, names nine current players and rates them defensively yet doesn't even mention IT shows he's not prepared to have a genuine conversation on this. Surprising, given he's a huge IT fanboy. You can't have a genuine conversation about this without looking at our starting PG this last season.

We also need improvement at SF. Where and how that happens I don't know but I'd hope we do a lot better than Salmons/Outlaw at SF next year.

Coaching is also very important With a better defensive coach we would have been a better defensive team this year with the same pieces we have. You need a competent defensive strategy. You need to have players on the same page on where they're sending the ball handler, where the help is coming, who's rotating, how to defend screens up top, how to defend pick & rolls, how to shade the offensive player to the shot blocker if we have one, and so on. That comes from coaching, the system put in place and players gaining experience in that system.

 

[Spike]

We have players who are capable of playing good defense, but we can't ignore the role of offense with regards to how it affects defense. Players are coached to leak out into transition instead of sticking with their man until the play is done. You can't play small and expect to do well. You can't lice with a three guard lineup, much less a FOUR guard lineup and expect to rebound well or box out well. Scheme has been to blame for most of this.
With a competent coach, a starting lineup of Douglas/Evans/anyone/Thompson/Cousins is good enough to be middle of the pack (at least) defensively. That doesn't even get into roster changes. If a solid PG and SF are acquired, a lineup of Douglas/Thornton/Salmons/Patterson/Aldrich would still be stout, with Thornton and Patterson providing offensive punch. (With IT as well)
Truth be told, we're not as far as we think we are.

 

[HereWeStay]

well we are dead last in giving up three pointers and we always lose games by teams going off from three point lad, just like in the clipper game. it makes me so mad at times i swear i want to throw something. every game it seams like teams always go off from three and are like in god mode from the 3 point land. smarts defeense must be, stay in the box, dont worry about the three lol

 

[VF21]

well we are dead last in giving up three pointers and we always lose games by teams going off from three point lad, just like in the clipper game. it makes me so mad at times i swear i want to throw something. every game it seams like teams always go off from three and are like in god mode from the 3 point land. smarts defeense must be, stay in the box, dont worry about the three lol

Basic mistake: Thinking that Keith Smart did anything to teach or enforce defense. The guys we got in the trade are a good example of what players can do if they've been coached by someone who understands that it takes DEFENSE to win games. Hopefully, they weren't exposed to the lunacy that is Keith Smart long enough to undo all those lessons.

 

[Telemachus]

The Kings have managed a lot of improvement on offense under Smart. The transition game is hot and cold. Aganst quality teams like Memphis, Denver, and San Anonio the Kings' look slow in transition defense and have a hard time stopping the ball. The real issue is defense. The glaring weakness is inside in the paint. So how do the Kings' get from last in the NBA allowing the most points per game to somewhere in the middle?

It seems like some of the players: Evans, Salmons, Patterson and Douglas are good defenders. Others like maybe Thornton,Thompson, Johnson, and Hayes are alright defenders. Aldrich has show flashes of changing games with his defense. Some other guys need work. I blame the pee-poor defense on the coach first. What are your ideas for stopping the bleeding of lay-ups and other high percentage shots against the Kings? I miss Dalembert and wonder how much potential Aldrich really has at this level. Team defense is a bunch of learned skills aided by desire and repetion so that the right moves are instinctual and don't take a lot of thought. I would close by saying that if Cousins was a great defender the Kings wouldn't have some many problems defending in the paint. What do you say?

I think the main problem with the Kings defense is that they don't seem to trust each other when playing team defense (a term I use loosely). I would also point out that they have all given each other good reason NOT to trust each other. There are so many problems with how they go about defense, they basically need to start from scratch next season.

 

[kingsnation]

well we are dead last in giving up three pointers and we always lose games by teams going off from three point lad, just like in the clipper game. it makes me so mad at times i swear i want to throw something. every game it seams like teams always go off from three and are like in god mode from the 3 point land. smarts defeense must be, stay in the box, dont worry about the three lol

It is.

"Guard the paint and rebound."

That was his response back in like, December or January when asked how to stop the opposing team's 3-point shooting.

 

[kingsnation]

I think the main problem with the Kings defense is that they don't seem to trust each other when playing team defense (a term I use loosely). I would also point out that they have all given each other good reason NOT to trust each other. There are so many problems with how they go about defense, they basically need to start from scratch next season.

You're right and others have talked about the trust issue as well.

I think a major problem with our defense and with our team in general is the lack of structure. When there's structure, everything flows from that. Structure in team leadership, in gameplan, in rotations, in execution, in system, etc.

Our team has none of the above. It's no surprise that our defense is terrible because to have a successful defense you have to have a structure. I'm really excited for a new beginning with the owners, coaching staff and GM. Because structure is something that has been lacking in our franchise for a while and it begins at the top and flows down from there.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

well we are dead last in giving up three pointers

We were #22 in made threes allowed at 625 (#30: Bobcats 716, league average 587).
We were #23 in attempted threes allowed at 1762 (#30: Warriors 1896, league average 1636).
We were #13 in three point percentage allowed at .355 (#30: Suns .388, league average .359).

So that's simply not close to true. We were even better than average at 3P% allowed. Please do not make up facts.

 

[HereWeStay]

We were #22 in made threes allowed at 625 (#30: Bobcats 716, league average 587).
We were #23 in attempted threes allowed at 1762 (#30: Warriors 1896, league average 1636).
We were #13 in three point percentage allowed at .355 (#30: Suns .388, league average .359).

So that's simply not close to true. We were even better than average at 3P% allowed. Please do not make up facts.

we still have lost 3/4 of our games due to not contesting the three. and that is a fact

 

[mac]

hiring a coach that values defense is clearly the first place to start, complete with a coaching staff that could attempt to repair the kings' absolutely broken pick and roll D. rebounding should be the next order of business. the kings are 25th in the league in total rebounds per game. they're 26th in the league in offensive rebounds ceded to opponents. they give up way too many second chance opportunities, and it puts additional pressure on an already weak defense. snagging a post defender who can rebound well to pair with demarcus cousins would be an excellent step forward...

defensively-minded veterans at the PG and SF positions would be useful, as well. john salmons is, in theory, a decent defender, but he's essentially sleepwalking through his second stint as a king. poor defense from both salmons and isaiah thomas on the wings consistently results in penetration that cousins and jason thompson are unable to adequately cover. tyreke evans may be an above-average man defender, but he's not great in rotation, and he slacks off jump shooters far too often (most likely the result of keith smart's "defensive strategy"). but, when paired with toney douglas on the rare occasion, we see fairly impressive backcourt defense from a team known for the exact opposite. sometimes all a starting unit needs is a defensive captain to help set the tone that drives the rest of the team to compete on that side of the ball...

I'd like to point out that Keith Smart says he's a defensive minded coach, or did when he first got here. We also saw the team playing very good D at the start of the year. What we need is a competent coach, plain and simple. For all the talk of D'Antoni being an offensive coach, the Suns were still good enough to reach the WCF and remain one of the top teams for a number of years. You don't win that many games without playing semi decent defense.

 

[Npliam]

we still have lost 3/4 of our games due to not contesting the three. and that is a fact

I think it has a lot more to do with letting teams get layups.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

we still have lost 3/4 of our games due to not contesting the three. and that is a fact

I really do think I just asked you to stop making up facts. But I'm game. Demonstrate that it is indeed a fact that we have lost 3/4 of our games due to not contesting the three.

 

[VF21]

we still have lost 3/4 of our games due to not contesting the three. and that is a fact

For future reference, you might want to think twice before throwing fantasy facts out in an argument with a guy named Capt. Factorial.

Just sayin'...

 

[HereWeStay]

I really do think I just asked you to stop making up facts. But I'm game. Demonstrate that it is indeed a fact that we have lost 3/4 of our games due to not contesting the three.

please pull up stats where teams have made more than 15 threes on us...i bet there is alot of games

 

[rainmaker]

we still have lost 3/4 of our games due to not contesting the three. and that is a fact

I'm not sure fact means what you think it means.

Or are you sitting on the evidence which shows we actually lost 3/4 of our games due to not contesting 3's? Hollinger would be impressed.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

please pull up stats where teams have made more than 15 threes on us...i bet there is alot of games

Excuse me? You want me to pull up stats? It's your "fact" - it's your responsibility to demonstrate it.

 

[Glenn]

Excuse me? You want me to pull up stats? It's your "fact" - it's your responsibility to demonstrate it.

I take it you are asking for a rational discussion. Ha! Ha! Ha! When that happens I have an address where you could send a million dollars.

 

[ppine]

Below average defense against the 3 can get you beat some nights. Below average defense in the paint can get you beat every night.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I take it you are asking for a rational discussion. Ha! Ha! Ha! When that happens I have an address where you could send a million dollars.

Wait a minute. I think that deal is terribly one-sided in your favor!

 

[HndsmCelt]

My 2 cents: While some players are definitely better defenders than others, ok some players are great defenders while others ought to have welcome tattooed on their forehead. Defense is a mind set and a culture. An below average group of defenders can become above average at team defense. But they have to want to and be coached to. So step one is a coach who stressed D, setp 2 is getting him a roster he can work with, and finely the players have to WANT to defend, take pride in it.

 

[Padrino]

Below average defense against the 3 can get you beat some nights. Below average defense in the paint can get you beat every night.

this is one of the few statements of yours that i've seen that i'm in full agreement with. while i don't approve of keith smart's defensive "stategy," if one can call it that, a stronger post defender to start alongside demarcus would do more good for the kings than staying home on 3-pt shooters. regardless, i maintain that cousins and evans are your primary scoring options in the starting unit, with either isaiah thomas or marcus thornton acting as instant offense off the bench. everybody else should be defensively-inclined, in my opinion, with a shooter or two sprinkled in for good measure, perhaps...

 

[ppine]

Smart's strategy really does seem to include a lot of sloughing off people and over-playiing. A coach like Popovich or Karl can look at some film of the Kings and figure out how to beat it very easly it appears. I would like to see the emphasis on staying home and making people responsible for the man they are assigned to cover first, and use team defense second.

The strategy of "finding a PF that is a shot blocker and strong post defender" is problematic. Every team would love to have a player like that with the quickness to cover PFs away from the basket. They are in high demand and short supply. It is an example of trying to overcome one of Cousin's weaknesses, his lack of a vertical game. Although I will admit, during the last game of the season he showed more ability and intensity above the rim. That begs the question, if he can do it once why not more often. And that was against the likes of Griffin and Jordan, 2 of the guys with the biggest hop in the League.

 

[DesertFox]

Cuz doesn't have to be a shotblocker to be the defensive paint presence. He can just focus on using his great length, instead of trying to draw charges. Don't get me wrong, drawing charges is a great skill, but there are better ways to use 270 pounds and a 7-6 wingspan.

Cuz doesn't have to be a high flying shotblocker to be effective, as Asik shows. No reason physically why Cuz can't do what Perkins or Marc Gasol does.

 

[Telemachus]

My 2 cents: While some players are definitely better defenders than others, ok some players are great defenders while others ought to have welcome tattooed on their forehead. Defense is a mind set and a culture. An below average group of defenders can become above average at team defense. But they have to want to and be coached to. So step one is a coach who stressed D, setp 2 is getting him a roster he can work with, and finely the players have to WANT to defend, take pride in it.

I agree. I thought Smart stressed mainly defense in training camp, but forgot about offense. When the season started, the team was playing pretty good defense (but couldn't score). As Smart realized he had to work on their offense, the defense was completely forgotten. It didn't help that he put an offense together that didn't work well with the defense he wanted to play. The result was that the players just didn't put much focus on defense until the 4th quarter (when it was usually too late.)

 

[Kingster]

The Kings have managed a lot of improvement on offense under Smart. The transition game is hot and cold. Aganst quality teams like Memphis, Denver, and San Anonio the Kings' look slow in transition defense and have a hard time stopping the ball. The real issue is defense. The glaring weakness is inside in the paint. So how do the Kings' get from last in the NBA allowing the most points per game to somewhere in the middle?

It seems like some of the players: Evans, Salmons, Patterson and Douglas are good defenders. Others like maybe Thornton,Thompson, Johnson, and Hayes are alright defenders. Aldrich has show flashes of changing games with his defense. Some other guys need work. I blame the pee-poor defense on the coach first. What are your ideas for stopping the bleeding of lay-ups and other high percentage shots against the Kings? I miss Dalembert and wonder how much potential Aldrich really has at this level. Team defense is a bunch of learned skills aided by desire and repetion so that the right moves are instinctual and don't take a lot of thought. I would close by saying that if Cousins was a great defender the Kings wouldn't have some many problems defending in the paint. What do you say?

Cousins, Thompson, Salmons. That ain't working. This past season you'd watch the beginning of the games and every single time the opposing team would attack that trio. And most times they'd be successful. Aldrich comes in the game and they play better D. Same coach, different player. Some of it is probably coaching, but some of it is personnel. The weakest link by far is Salmons, but the other two aren't far behind. I think Thompson plays hard, but he's just not an above average defender in the NBA. Cousins doesn't play hard and that makes him a below average defender. Salmons is playing out of position and maybe over the hill and maybe not playing hard (It's hard to believe that Salmons consistently gave it his all when you look at his rebounding stats).

 

[ppine]

Kingster,
Your assessment is the most logical so far in explaining the Kings" dismal interior defense. I agree with the lack of intensity by Cousins and Sleepy Salmons. Thompson is more perplexing because the effor is there. You are correct that his results are average when it comes to defense.

In your opinion will Cousins continue to be a liability on defense? Can a strong PF make up for some his weaknesses?

 

[spudfan]

Are there any stats that confirm Cousins is a below average defender and a liability? He is by no means a lock down defender but I have never thought of him as a liability or a bad defender. As many people have said our inability to get through a screen, leading to a switch, leading to a mismatch or open dunk when no one switches is the main reason for the terrible points allowed in the paint number. That has far more to do with the team defense problems and philosophy we follow than with the post players.