How do we build a contending team?

[K F Jay]

Now that we have Tyreke Evans its time to start building a contending team but how? How long will it take? What pieces do we need? Who do we keep? Who do we let go? I keep hearing JT is only in his second year, Hawes is still young and it takes centers longer to develop. Do we start JT and Hawes for the next two years or so and let them develop? Or do we acquire players to start in front of JT and Hawes and let them develop off the bench? What kind of players do we acquire? More youth? Solid players reaching their prime? Solid players in their prime? Solid veterans? Do we try and acquire them before the trade deadline? Or after the season? And how long do we sign them for? We have a log jam at our wing positions. Is their enough playing time for everyone? Who should start? Who should play more minutes? And Why? What should our progress look like the rest of this year, next year and the following year? And what should we be expecting? Its not much to ask is it .

 

[Chupacabra]

Trade Kevin Martin for Chris Bosh. The Raptors will totally do it!

 

[theGreatestShowOnCourt]

Now that we have Tyreke Evans its time to start building a contending team but how? How long will it take? What pieces do we need? Who do we keep? Who do we let go? I keep hearing JT is only in his second year, Hawes is still young and it takes centers longer to develop. Do we start JT and Hawes for the next two years or so and let them develop? Or do we acquire players to start in front of JT and Hawes and let them develop off the bench? What kind of players do we acquire? More youth? Solid players reaching their prime? Solid players in their prime? Solid veterans? Do we try and acquire them before the trade deadline? Or after the season? And how long do we sign them for? We have a log jam at our wing positions. Is their enough playing time for everyone? Who should start? Who should play more minutes? And Why? What should our progress look like the rest of this year, next year and the following year? And what should we be expecting? Its not much to ask is it .

Haha not much.

Let me answer shortly.

I say through the draft. Take a couple of years. Grizzlies/Thunder model.

Trade what can be traded and is not on a rookie contract. Target picks mainly. Besides young talent that is offered directly (rookies and what not).

Be patient. Tyreke is incredibly young. Imagine a contending team starting in 4 years. Keep Tyrke, Casspi, Greene, JT, and Hawes but the last two not at all cost. If you can net two extra first rounders for what else can be traded you look at a core of those 5 with 5 (or more?) extra first round rookies within 3 years. And probably cap space. 2013-ish. Then sign a extra star on the weakest position and party hard!

 

[The Astronaut]

I would love to see the Kings trade away for some front court help(not superstar level but like a Dalembert type) and also for draft picks.

If we could get another couple of "potential" young stars like a PF Derrick Favors and C Donatas Motiejunas that would rock. To me Evans is the only untouchable on this team but I have no problem being patient for the future.

I was expecting the Kings to win maybe 20 games total this year so I am really happy to be a Kings fan again. just would like to see some better fundamentals.

just my opinion.

 

[DocHolliday]

I would love to see the Kings trade away for some front court help(not superstar level but like a Dalembert type) and also for draft picks.

If we could get another couple of "potential" young stars like a PF Derrick Favors and C Donatas Motiejunas that would rock. To me Evans is the only untouchable on this team but I have no problem being patient for the future.

I was expecting the Kings to win maybe 20 games total this year so I am really happy to be a Kings fan again. just would like to see some better fundamentals.

just my opinion.

Casspi is a little untouchable as well. When you have to 2 top 5 rookies, you can safely call them part of your future.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

portland is a good model to follow.rebuild through the draft, stockpile talent overseas. if they didn't lose oden, they could be very dangerous. they have the pieces to match up w/ the lakers.

 

[The Astronaut]

Casspi is a little untouchable as well.

I love the guy and hope he turns into an all star over the years but I would give him up for a young top 5 Big in the draft. You can replace Casspi's numbers at the 3 a lot easier than you can the impact a talented Big could give you. obviously...look at what we are going through. But you are right...he is a "little" untouchable.

 

[DocHolliday]

I love the guy and hope he turns into an all star over the years but I would give him up for a young top 5 Big in the draft. You can replace Casspi's numbers at the 3 a lot easier than you can the impact a talented Big could give you. obviously...look at what we are going through. But you are right...he is a "little" untouchable.

I just think there are other tradeable pieces to get a big man.

We have an expiring contract, we have another younger big in Hilton as a throw in, May is an expiring, and I think Sergio may be an expiring? Martin may be an option. There's Noc, Udoka,, and Beno.

We have a lot of tradeable pieces. The best is to catch a team that just wants to shed salary. Then you just need to show them enough in expiring, and maybe send one serviceable player with a moderately sized contract.

We've been sellers, now we are buyer. Buyers need to find sellers. What you don't want are too buyers. Buyers are either young up and comers, or teams trying to make a run at the title.

For instance nothing of consequence would happen with the Kings and the lakers, or the cavs, or Orlando. As much as the Cavs need to prep for trying to re-sign Lebron, they also can't sell good peices away while trying to contend for a title.

 

[Rug King]

You rarely go from doormat worse team in the NBA to play-off contender in one year. Having the best draft in the league was a step in the right direction. We now have some good young prospects with Tyreke, Caspi and Green. The Kings have pretty much nailed down the 1,2 and 3. I'd guess that Petrie is working hard right now trying to use any combination of all the players except those named three to get a proven big man. Then follow up with a good draft, and we could be a play-off team next year.

 

[Oskor]

My main question is how to resign all these rookies? They aren't going to be cheap if Evans, JT, Casspi and Greene continue to develop (throw Hawes on the list I guess...). Them plus 1 extra star plus bench can't be cheap. This will all be going down about the time most of us expect to be contending.

Can somebody with more knowledge (and time) run down what they expect our team salary to be like in the 2012-2013 season?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I love the guy and hope he turns into an all star over the years but I would give him up for a young top 5 Big in the draft. You can replace Casspi's numbers at the 3 a lot easier than you can the impact a talented Big could give you. obviously...look at what we are going through. But you are right...he is a "little" untouchable.

The biggest problem with trading Casspi is that he is on a rookie contract so he'd have to be moved with someone else to get an established player or you could trade him for a project or draft pick (in which case you'd still have to take on a matching salary) which carries plenty of risk.

That's why Martin is our most valuable trade chip - aside from actually being desirable for plenty of teams, his pay is in line with what most established guys on their second contract are getting paid. We can get an established but still young talent offsetting most of the risk. Just have to find a team that has an abundance of talented big men in need of an offense only guard. Tougher than it seems.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Probably through the draft. This is probably going to be our last big draft pick, so hopefully with some luck in the draft we can pick up another all-star quality player that complements Evans.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

My main question is how to resign all these rookies? They aren't going to be cheap if Evans, JT, Casspi and Greene continue to develop (throw Hawes on the list I guess...). Them plus 1 extra star plus bench can't be cheap. This will all be going down about the time most of us expect to be contending.

Can somebody with more knowledge (and time) run down what they expect our team salary to be like in the 2012-2013 season?

As we stand now for 2012-2013, we are at about $33.5M without Greene, Thompson, or Hawes. That assumes no roster turnover, and does not count this year's upcoming draft pick(s) - just the money we are committed to. (I assume both Casspi and Evans would have their last year of their rookie deal picked up, and Nocioni's team option would be declined.)

We would have Martin, Evans, Casspi, and Udrih in the final years of their contracts, and Garcia with one more year, so that's 5 players for $33.5M.

Add in a 2010 draft pick (~$4M), a 2011 draft pick (~$2M) and a 2010 draft pick (~$1M) - this is assuming the team improves, obviously) - and you're up to about $40M for 8 players. Then the question is how much we will have to pay Hawes, JT, and Donte.

Of course, the idea that our roster will go unchanged before then is not too likely.

 

[ZZ-TOP]

Trade Kevin Martin for Chris Bosh. The Raptors will totally do it!

Hate to burst your bubble, but Bosh is not a contender. In Toronto, they tried all kinds of things and players, to build a contending team around him. And they failed miserably over and over again. What does that tell you?

Bosh is a nice player. I enjoy watching his skills, but he is no warrior. When the things get tough, Bosh gets missing. You don't want that.


And one more thing, I hope you don't want Amare too.

You can laugh all you want but if I would have any saying in this matter, I would try to get Hasheem Thabeet. His ceiling is much higher then Dalemberts. Not to mention his age.
He is raw on offense, his rookie season is rocky as hell, but his college carrier was nice and he has that tough, defensive minded attitude. And you can teach a player a lot of things but you can't teach him size. He is also very mobile for a big guy. Oh, and his trade value is now low as it gets.

 

[est.1999]

How do we stop you from asking questions?

 

[rainmaker]

Hate to burst your bubble, but Bosh is not a contender. In Toronto, they tried all kinds of things and players, to build a contending team around him. And they failed miserably over and over again. What does that tell you?

Bosh is a nice player. I enjoy watching his skills, but he is no warrior. When the things get tough, Bosh gets missing. You don't want that.


And one more thing, I hope you don't want Amare too.

While I would agree that Bosh will never carry a team to a championship, he can be a huge part of the puzzle. I don't put much stock in his success and the players he's been surrounded by in toronto. They have all been incredibly soft euro players. And he has never been paired with a player like Tyreke. If we paired Bosh with Tyreke, right now, Tyreke would be the best guard Bosh has played with. Also, we're talking about the rookie version of Tyreke, not the allstar/mvp caliber player I see him becoming in 3 years.

 

[vistacruza_kings]

if we wanted bosh so bad why would we just wait 5 months and just sign him. no trade needed.

 

[rainmaker]

if we wanted bosh so bad why would we just wait 5 months and just sign him. no trade needed.

Why? Well, aside from the fact this has been discussed in length in numerous threads, what do you think the chances are of Bosh coming here as a free agent? NY. Miami. Dallas. Chicago. He has lots of options in big market cities, and the option of playing with either Lebron or Wade. But according to you, he will bypass all those options, and come to Sac, nevermind the fact the the best free agent we have ever attracted was Vlade.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

if we wanted bosh so bad why would we just wait 5 months and just sign him. no trade needed.

Almost any free agent signing these days will be done through a sign and trade, at which point the salaries would need to be higher to match so we'd ultimately end up giving more away. Not to mention if Toronto is shopping him they'd probably be forced to take a little less due to the uncertainty any team would have re-signing him.

 

[Chupacabra]

Hate to burst your bubble, but Bosh is not a contender. In Toronto, they tried all kinds of things and players, to build a contending team around him. And they failed miserably over and over again. What does that tell you?

Bosh is a nice player. I enjoy watching his skills, but he is no warrior. When the things get tough, Bosh gets missing. You don't want that.


And one more thing, I hope you don't want Amare too.

You can laugh all you want but if I would have any saying in this matter, I would try to get Hasheem Thabeet. His ceiling is much higher then Dalemberts. Not to mention his age.
He is raw on offense, his rookie season is rocky as hell, but his college carrier was nice and he has that tough, defensive minded attitude. And you can teach a player a lot of things but you can't teach him size. He is also very mobile for a big guy. Oh, and his trade value is now low as it gets.

I was joking. Pretty tough to convey tone without the use of emoticons

 

[theGreatestShowOnCourt]

Hate to burst your bubble, but Bosh is not a contender. In Toronto, they tried all kinds of things and players, to build a contending team around him. And they failed miserably over and over again. What does that tell you?

Bosh is a nice player. I enjoy watching his skills, but he is no warrior. When the things get tough, Bosh gets missing. You don't want that.

Hate to burst your bubble, but it's way too early to say that. For one thing, they tried again this year and they're on course for #5 in the East with a pretty young core. Beat the Cavs, Magic, Lakers..

It's true they failed to build a good team through the draft (except Bargnani who is finally breaking through and perhaps DeRozan), they had a lot of busts/bad picks. This is key. It's imperative the Kings draft right.

But like I said, I think Bosh is still young enough to show he can be the cornerstone of a contender. Imagine Tyreke Evans in 5 years with sort of the same career. It's not impossible to think the Kings won't get near a WCF within 5 years and that he is still considered the franchise player.

Personally, I wouldn't try to bring in a solid big via trade. I would wait. Draft one and be patient. Stay in the lottery for a couple of more years. Why throw the kitchen sink for the #8 seed and get swept by the L*kers? No thanks.

 

[Chupacabra]

Hate to burst your bubble, but it's way too early to say that. For one thing, they tried again this year and they're on course for #5 in the East with a pretty young core. Beat the Cavs, Magic, Lakers..

It's true they failed to build a good team through the draft (except Bargnani who is finally breaking through and perhaps DeRozan), they had a lot of busts/bad picks. This is key. It's imperative the Kings draft right.

But like I said, I think Bosh is still young enough to show he can be the cornerstone of a contender. Imagine Tyreke Evans in 5 years with sort of the same career. It's not impossible to think the Kings won't get near a WCF within 5 years and that he is still considered the franchise player.

Personally, I wouldn't try to bring in a solid big via trade. I would wait. Draft one and be patient. Stay in the lottery for a couple of more years. Why throw the kitchen sink for the #8 seed and get swept by the L*kers? No thanks.

My sentiments exactly. Thanks you for the censorship of the word 7akers.

 

[AriesMar27]

Hate to burst your bubble, but it's way too early to say that. For one thing, they tried again this year and they're on course for #5 in the East with a pretty young core. Beat the Cavs, Magic, Lakers..

It's true they failed to build a good team through the draft (except Bargnani who is finally breaking through and perhaps DeRozan), they had a lot of busts/bad picks. This is key. It's imperative the Kings draft right.

But like I said, I think Bosh is still young enough to show he can be the cornerstone of a contender. Imagine Tyreke Evans in 5 years with sort of the same career. It's not impossible to think the Kings won't get near a WCF within 5 years and that he is still considered the franchise player.

Personally, I wouldn't try to bring in a solid big via trade. I would wait. Draft one and be patient. Stay in the lottery for a couple of more years. Why throw the kitchen sink for the #8 seed and get swept by the L*kers? No thanks.

5 more years of this? are you serious? id rather be 8th seed, at least then we would know what we need to build around. we dont know that with a lottery team, look at this years team. we just need a star... well, there he is... no what? we need a defensive center... we need a pg... we need a better pf... basically we need a new team, this one sucks...

 

[theGreatestShowOnCourt]

5 more years of this? are you serious? id rather be 8th seed, at least then we would know what we need to build around. we dont know that with a lottery team, look at this years team. we just need a star... well, there he is... no what? we need a defensive center... we need a pg... we need a better pf... basically we need a new team, this one sucks...

I didn't say take 5 years to build. I said: imagine Tyreke not making this team contend within 5 years.. would you call him a bust like you did Bosh? addressed @ ZZ-TOP obviously

 

[AriesMar27]

I didn't say take 5 years to build. I said: imagine Tyreke not making this team contend within 5 years.. would you call him a bust like you did Bosh? addressed @ ZZ-TOP obviously

i understand that... but id still rather have this team get 8th seed and lose in the playoffs than watch what we're going through right now. one win in the entire month so far... to hell with the draft, that just gives petrie another excuse to lose.

at least we would all enjoy winning enough games in the regular season to make the playoffs, as opposed to not losing enough games for the number 1 pick.

 

[theGreatestShowOnCourt]

i understand that... but id still rather have this team get 8th seed and lose in the playoffs than watch what we're going through right now. one win in the entire month so far... to hell with the draft, that just gives petrie another excuse to lose.

at least we would all enjoy winning enough games in the regular season to make the playoffs, as opposed to not losing enough games for the number 1 pick.

Of course winning games is better than losing them.
But I wouldn't sign a big that is going to help only short term and screw the Kings out of the lottery for a couple of years more than anything else.

If you can get a young guy like Noah (pipedream) then I say hell yeah but I wouldn't go for Amare or Jermaine O'Neal or even Shaq to name a few. ( a lot of old centers are becoming FA this summer)
Just doesn't fit the timeframe of the team imo. Like I said earlier, I'd try to follow the examples of OKC and MG. Young core with space and add a solid overpaid player later (ZBO) or hang on to the space. Those teams are now battling for #8 with young exciting teams, just need a year or two to get where they are imo.

 

[AriesMar27]

hey, the grizzlies are over .500 and playing exciting basketball. people around here constantly hated on randolph, he's a cancer, he's a blackhole on offense, he's a good player on a bad team... we're a really bad team, he would be really good for us. not that im saying that we should trade for him, it doesnt look like the grizz want to move him. im just saying that trading for a player that scores or doesnt play defense doesnt mean that we will be a worse team.

i dont know why everyone is so dead set on losing with their own players when we could be losing with a player from another team. its like they're afraid that thompson or hawes will develop into studs on another team. unless they end up on the magic, rockets or lakers its not gonna happen, they need bigmen coaches that can show them how to play the right way....

 

[theGreatestShowOnCourt]

Agree about Z-Bo but I don't think the Kings are in the same position as the Grizzlies yet. I mean they have O.J Mayo, Rudy Gay and Marc Gasol and they even could have had Tyreke or Steph Curry with that instead of Thabeet before they traded for ZBo. Thunder I think are now in the position to add a really good player and make that push. I think the Kings would be better off waiting at least til the offseason but perhaps another year before they should start bringing in talent from outside other than through draft. Maybe for Martin but I would definitely go for youth there or picks rather than a proven big who is pushing 30 or over.

 

[AriesMar27]

therein lies the problem... the grizzlies couldve been even better had they not drafted thabeet. how are they playing so well? before the season started who wouldve thought that they would be over .500 this far into the season? on paper we were just as good if not better if fully healthy. randolph has been balling for that team, we dont have that... we need a big who can score, we have 2 that dont score or defend.

what wins in the nba? bigs that can score, granted defense is up there but its usually a big who gets another big(or entire team) in foul trouble that does it. rebounding is nice too...

 

[bigbadred00]

therein lies the problem... the grizzlies couldve been even better had they not drafted thabeet. how are they playing so well? before the season started who wouldve thought that they would be over .500 this far into the season? on paper we were just as good if not better if fully healthy. randolph has been balling for that team, we dont have that... we need a big who can score, we have 2 that dont score or defend.

what wins in the nba? bigs that can score, granted defense is up there but its usually a big who gets another big(or entire team) in foul trouble that does it. rebounding is nice too...

What wins in the NBA?

I'd say you need a couple of things.

I think the two most important factors are post D and efficient scorers who can goto the line and get the other team in foul trouble.

You also need role players who don't make too much money and can hit efficient 3 pointers.

Obviously talent normally wins in the NBA as well. Lakers had the most last year with Boston's injuries.

I think the Kings potentially have an efficient scoring future wing in the mold of Wade in Tyreke. They need to get some help around him. Omri is good but if we can get a real dominant big in the mold Duncan, KG, Shaq we will be golden...I just don't see if from JT or Hawes...they will be good, maybe average players but never really that dominant. And for those calling Tyreke the next AI. I get the comparison and he could very well be the next AI. But he will be more efficient and due to his size he won't be a monsterous liability defensively in the future if he works on his game. If AI was taller and more efficient and could play some D, he probably could have won a title. IF you look at efficiencies...guys like Durant, Wade and LBJ were not efficient at all their first years in the NBA. But improved tremendously. We need Tyreke to improve but he definitely should.

To answer why the Grizzles are winning?

Their starting lineup has been really healthy. They were absolutely horrid at the 4 last year with Warrick and Arthur. This year ZBO has been pretty bad defensively but rebounds well and is scoring as efficient as he ever has. He also has had less attitude problems. Mayo, Gay are both playing better than they did last year and Gasol has been very good offensively and a huge suprise for most Memphian's like myself. Their bench is still terrible and needs help especially in the scoring department. Thabeet is a project and will be for a while. But the team doesn't really need scoring, they need some post defense which Thabeet does bring.