How different will the 2015-16 Kings roster be?

[jcwkings]

I'm really scratching my head, obviously we need more talent next season. I just don't know how different the roster will look/should look. I think as the roster currently stands with the top 3 guys healthy we can be .500, we need more though to go above that imo.

For PG's I think we are fine with DC, Ray Mac and Miller. The good thing about Ray Mac playing relatively good basketball since taking over is that we have an asset we can throw in to sweeten a trade, and at worst he is a good backup PG. Of course since Karl won't coach Collison this season there is a chance he wants one his guys as the PG and Collison is shopped around. Overall though I would feel fine if DC, Ray Mac and Miller were the three PG's heading into training camp. But I can also see a situation where we go after someone like Lawson.

SG is where we surely need some help. Whether thats a new starter or a more veteran piece, there must be an addition over the summer. McLemore has shown signs of becoming a good player, but he is very inconsistent at this point. Stauskas despite playing like a deer in headlights for most of the season has started to show what we expected. He is a lights out shooter with a good bit of handle and a good decision maker, but a pretty poor defender. Both fit what Karl is trying to do, Ben more as a guy that runs on the wings and can hit the open 3 and Stauskas has shown to be pretty decent at the drive and kick action that goes on in the half court sets. I just don't think we have the time to develop both and imo one of the two will be gone in the summer, in a trade to either upgrade PF or bring in a more reliable SG. There is also the possibility of drafting someone like Stanley Johnson or Justice Winslow who could take SG minutes(or play SF with Gay at PF).

Gay obviously will be back as the starting SF. The backup is a tougher proposition. Casspi would be a good piece to bring back, he fits the running style of Karl and will probably be available at a bargain price. Williams imo should be gone, to me he is all flash no substance, a nice highlight reel guy with no fundamentals. The absolute only way I can see him back is if Miller returns, even then he shouldn't be back imo. Other options as stated above could come through the draft, we are in desperate need of wing defenders and Stanley Johnson and Justice Winslow fit that mold to a tee(and usually guys can learn to hit the spot up 3 once in the league). Those are two potential 3 and D guys that will be available for us in the draft.

PF is by far our weakest position yet is probably our most expensive position. With Landry, JT and Williams, Reggie all making 6+ million. Landry it seems will be shopped like crazy over the summer as he is either buried in the bench or starting because of injury. JT while the most competent one of the bunch seems to have found a role as a backup 5 under Karl. I would be fine with keeping JT around as the backup 5 or first big off the bench. He isn't great but the guy works hard everytime he's on the court and that counts for something. Williams should be gone. The question then becomes what we look for in a starting PF for next season. Do you try and find a stretch 4 or a more defensive one? Do you draft Cauly Stein and slide DMC to the 4 and have a twin tower situation? A lot of directions to go but certainly there. I would not be upset if DMC, Cauly Stein, JT and Reggie were our bigs going into the season, especially since we know Rudy can play some 4 in a lot of situations in the current NBA landscape. I love Reggie Evans and wouldn't mind him being back as a 4th or 5th big, chemisty guy.

As far as the draft my personal preference right now would be Cauly-Stein (assuming we don't jump into the top 3). With Stanley Johnson and Justice Winslow also being possibilites depending on how they look in workouts. All 3 of those guys can contribute next season imo. Johnson and Winslow have NBA bodies already.

 

[IfAt1st]

A rookie is not going to put this team over the huge hump they have to surmount to be competitive in the NBA, AND to be respected again.

They HAVE to have another solid playmaker out there - someone Demarcus can reliably pass to when he's double-teamed and not fumble the ball.
Someone who take advantage of the lack of attention they are being paid and make the other team pay.
Someone who can learn Rudy and Demarcus' tendencies and be in the right place at the right time.
Someone who doesn't crumble when the game gets tight.
Someone with experience in the playoffs, preferably.

Unfortunately, they need that kind of player at TWO positions - SG and PF.

 

[twslam07]

A rookie is not going to put this team over the huge hump they have to surmount to be competitive in the NBA, AND to be respected again.

They HAVE to have another solid playmaker out there - someone Demarcus can reliably pass to when he's double-teamed and not fumble the ball.
Someone who take advantage of the lack of attention they are being paid and make the other team pay.
Someone who can learn Rudy and Demarcus' tendencies and be in the right place at the right time.
Someone who doesn't crumble when the game gets tight.
Someone with experience in the playoffs, preferably.

Unfortunately, they need that kind of player at TWO positions - SG and PF.

Fortunately, we'll have around $10 mil in cap space to go after Middleton, Matthews, D. Green, or Afflalo and have the opportunity to pull off a 3 way trade with a premise of McLemore for Wilson Chandler for Taj Gibosn (with us getting Gibson). And voila! You have your SG & PF spot filled by two savvy vets who compliment Cousins, Gay, and Collison very well.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I'll go with a non-popular option and say we go for broke and sell hard for Kevin Love.
That means bye D-Will, Landry, and JT.
We still got Moreland for cheap, and I think he is gem.

Then use the rest of what's for cheap role players.

GAY, LOVE, COUSINS will be a damn solid core.

 

[randymoss1881]

Fortunately, we'll have around $10 mil in cap space to go after Middleton, Matthews, D. Green, or Afflalo and have the opportunity to pull off a 3 way trade with a premise of McLemore for Wilson Chandler for Taj Gibosn (with us getting Gibson). And voila! You have your SG & PF spot filled by two savvy vets who compliment Cousins, Gay, and Collison very well.

No way you trade Ben for a 30 year old Gibson. The bulls most likely will have to trade Taj giving up Ben is way too much.
I would trade for Chandler maybe Nik/our 1st for Chandler/there 1st.

 

[twslam07]

No way you trade Ben for a 30 year old Gibson. The bulls most likely will have to trade Taj giving up Ben is way too much.
I would trade for Chandler maybe Nik/our 1st for Chandler/there 1st.

Don't agree at all. We need to show Cousins we can win now. If we were still in a period when we are rebuilding and had the luxury of waiting for potential to develop then I would agree with you, but we need to do everything we can to show Cousins we can win now. Cousins is our best chance at a championship. Keeping him should be priority #1. We can't afford to keep losing next year.

Besides, Gibson is an excellent compliment to Cousins offensively and defensively and does not have much wear and tear on his body. Cousins, at the age of 24, has played more NBA regular season minutes than Gibson. I don't expect Gibson's production to decline anytime soon. He's pretty well preserved considering his minutes played, being primarily a bench player during his career, and the fact that he came into the league at 24.

 

[Albatros]

Very, hopefully.

Move Ben for someone who can contribute please.

 

[Tetsujin]

I'll go with a non-popular option and say we go for broke and sell hard for Kevin Love.
That means bye D-Will, Landry, and JT.
We still got Moreland for cheap, and I think he is gem.

Then use the rest of what's for cheap role players.

GAY, LOVE, COUSINS will be a damn solid core.

Because nothing says "We want to win!" like signing the one guy who could somehow make our defense worse, doesn't seem to play all that well with others, and would command a max contract.

 

[randymoss1881]

Because nothing says "We want to win!" like signing the one guy who could somehow make our defense worse, doesn't seem to play all that well with others, and would command a max contract.

Why even discuss someone who wouldn't come here under any circumstance. We would have a better chance of signing cp4 if he were available and you know how much he like Boogie and vice versa. I hope the FO doesn't do stupid wild goose chase like that and add in other tier 1 free agents. We will have to over pay for the like of Danny Green who I would pick over Afflalo 100X

 

[Flopi]

My dream summer :

• trade McLemore for Terrence Jones
• sign Danny Green in free agency
• draft WCS
• let Williams go
• trade Landry for a candy bar

PG: Collison, McCallum, Miller
SG: Green, Stauskas
SF: Gay, Casspi and/or FA
PF: Jones, JT, Moreland and Evans (glue guy) on the bench
C: Boogie, WCS

 

[twslam07]

Why even discuss someone who wouldn't come here under any circumstance. We would have a better chance of signing cp4 if he were available and you know how much he like Boogie and vice versa. I hope the FO doesn't do stupid wild goose chase like that and add in other tier 1 free agents. We will have to over pay for the like of Danny Green who I would pick over Afflalo 100X

I'm not sure it would be possible for us to overpay for Green without us trading away players for immediate cap relief. Here's why...

The salary cap is projected to be $66.5 mil next year. After this season, we'll have $13.35 mil in cap space. If we end up with the sixth pick, our rookie will be making $2.74 mil in his first year. That drops our cap space down to $10.62 mil (the roster would be Cousins, Gay, Landry, Thompson, Collison, McLemore, Stauskas, McCallum, Moreland, and our 2015 1st round pick).

If we were to offer the biggest contract we could to Danny Green, the first year would take up our entire cap space ($10.62 mil). Considering the max length we can offer is 4 years and the maximum raise per year is 7.5%, the total offer would be $47.5 mil over 4 years (approx. $11.87 mil a year). Let's stop right there. That is a very steep price to pay for a 3 and D wing. That's almost the same price that we are paying Gay. I would definitely say we are overpaying for his services.

However, we need to take into account the new salary cap that is occurring in the 2016-2017 season. The salary cap is expected to jump from $66.5 mil to $91.2 mil. That is a massive jump and will essentially scale all current contracts down in value. In essence, we should compare Danny Green's salary in terms of percentage of the cap rather than at the whole number value. This will give us a viable comparison and see if a $11.87 mil per year contract is still considered overpaying for Danny Green.

What you do is divide the $11.87 mil contract by the $91.2 mil projected cap in 2016-2017. That gives us 13% meaning that Danny Green's contract will be 13% of the cap when it raises in 2016. Next we take that 13% and multiply it by the current cap in the 2014-2015 season ($66.5 mil), and we get $8.67 mil meaning a $11.87 mil per year contract under the elevated cap in 2016-2017 is the same value as a $8.67 mil per year contract under the old salary cap.

So thinking in terms of the old CBA salary caps ($60-$66 mil range). Do you think $8.67 mil a year for a great 3 and D player is a fair deal? I believe so. For reference, Holiday, Deng, Varejao, Millsap, T. Young, Splitter, J. Green, Stephenson, & J. Hill all make more than him ranging from $9.9 mil to $9 mil. The closest player to him in terms of skill, style, and contract size is Ariza. Ariza makes $8.6 mil. So for a high end 3 and D player, a $8.67 mil VALUE contract doesn't seem so bad.

Again, you mentioned that we would have to overpay to get him. What I'm saying here is that I don't think it's possible for us to overspend unless we create more cap space through some trades. With the cap rising the following year, it's not going to be as huge of a deal to "overspend" for this one year to get a player we covet because that contract will turn into a good value that very next year.

 

[Larry David]

A lot of posts in this thread will have fans proposing radial change at the SG position, because neither of our young players can adequately play the position even as a 5th starter on a so-so team. If the team spends back to back top 8 picks on SGs and then should consider spending most of its 9 million in cap space on a SG ... the team should probably fire the GM.

 

[Gilles]

I'm not sure it would be possible for us to overpay for Green without us trading away players for immediate cap relief. Here's why...

The salary cap is projected to be $66.5 mil next year. After this season, we'll have $13.35 mil in cap space. If we end up with the sixth pick, our rookie will be making $2.74 mil in his first year. That drops our cap space down to $10.62 mil (the roster would be Cousins, Gay, Landry, Thompson, Collison, McLemore, Stauskas, McCallum, Moreland, and our 2015 1st round pick).

If we were to offer the biggest contract we could to Danny Green, the first year would take up our entire cap space ($10.62 mil). Considering the max length we can offer is 4 years and the maximum raise per year is 7.5%, the total offer would be $47.5 mil over 4 years (approx. $11.87 mil a year). Let's stop right there. That is a very steep price to pay for a 3 and D wing. That's almost the same price that we are paying Gay. I would definitely say we are overpaying for his services.

However, we need to take into account the new salary cap that is occurring in the 2016-2017 season. The salary cap is expected to jump from $66.5 mil to $91.2 mil. That is a massive jump and will essentially scale all current contracts down in value. In essence, we should compare Danny Green's salary in terms of percentage of the cap rather than at the whole number value. This will give us a viable comparison and see if a $11.87 mil per year contract is still considered overpaying for Danny Green.

What you do is divide the $11.87 mil contract by the $91.2 mil projected cap in 2016-2017. That gives us 13% meaning that Danny Green's contract will be 13% of the cap when it raises in 2016. Next we take that 13% and multiply it by the current cap in the 2014-2015 season ($66.5 mil), and we get $8.67 mil meaning a $11.87 mil per year contract under the elevated cap in 2016-2017 is the same value as a $8.67 mil per year contract under the old salary cap.

So thinking in terms of the old CBA salary caps ($60-$66 mil range). Do you think $8.67 mil a year for a great 3 and D player is a fair deal? I believe so. For reference, Holiday, Deng, Varejao, Millsap, T. Young, Splitter, J. Green, Stephenson, & J. Hill all make more than him ranging from $9.9 mil to $9 mil. The closest player to him in terms of skill, style, and contract size is Ariza. Ariza makes $8.6 mil. So for a high end 3 and D player, a $8.67 mil VALUE contract doesn't seem so bad.

Again, you mentioned that we would have to overpay to get him. What I'm saying here is that I don't think it's possible for us to overspend unless we create more cap space through some trades. With the cap rising the following year, it's not going to be as huge of a deal to "overspend" for this one year to get a player we covet because that contract will turn into a good value that very next year.

1. Rookie scales for duration of current CBA: http://www.cbafaq.com/scale2011.htm - salary of 6th pick is $2,831,900*120% in 2015/16=$3,398,280, but Kings can wait for some time to sign the guy, so the cap hold will be base $2.83 million
2. Kings have 9 guys under contract, assuming Moreland is not waived, then you have cap hold for a pick and 3 cap holds of virtual minimum salary of undrafted rookies ($525,093) to get roster to 12, and Kings team salary still has a $930,000 hit from Ellington's "stretch" provision - altogether - $56.6, so a bit less in space - just under $10 million.
3. A team signing FA from another team can only offer 4.5% raises.

 

[lawlman91]

Don't agree at all. We need to show Cousins we can win now. If we were still in a period when we are rebuilding and had the luxury of waiting for potential to develop then I would agree with you, but we need to do everything we can to show Cousins we can win now. Cousins is our best chance at a championship. Keeping him should be priority #1. We can't afford to keep losing next year.

Besides, Gibson is an excellent compliment to Cousins offensively and defensively and does not have much wear and tear on his body. Cousins, at the age of 24, has played more NBA regular season minutes than Gibson. I don't expect Gibson's production to decline anytime soon. He's pretty well preserved considering his minutes played, being primarily a bench player during his career, and the fact that he came into the league at 24.

I'll disagree to a degree. DeMarcus is only 24 years old; we have time to not take the "this year or bust" route. If he were 26 but more on 28 in terms of age, I'd agree with you. He's a loyal personality, doing his duty even when people around him aren't or are unable to, and that's admirable. We still have time, so I would consider getting someone younger than 30 if you want to make roster moves at the SG spot, so we have chances at competitiveness for 2+ years.

 

[Kingster]

I don't agree with the linear one step approach to transforming this team. I don't want to see the FO just signing the draft pick and signing a FA to fill in one hole. That's pure death. I'd be happy with everybody gone, sans Cousins. It all depends, of course, if we get back something more than trade exceptions. The Love deal was a great deal for Minni, imo. If the King make a deal like that for Gay, I'd be overjoyed. SA made a great deal to get Leonard. Their Tony Parker pick in the latter part of the first round was masterful (If memory served, the Kings pick Douby just after Parker). For this team to be very good, the FO must be very good, in the SA realm. Not ok, not pretty good. Very Good. The FO has to be daring and smart in the offseason.

 

[SacKings384]

I don't see it being very different at all. We don't have any tradeable assets that are actually people we want to move. We don't have very much money to sign a free agent. Our draft pick will be not significant enough to get an impactful rookie.

We have the talent to be a .500 team to start building a nice foundation under Karl. Whether or not that will happen remains to be seen.

 

[Padrino]

A lot of posts in this thread will have fans proposing radial change at the SG position, because neither of our young players can adequately play the position even as a 5th starter on a so-so team. If the team spends back to back top 8 picks on SGs and then should consider spending most of its 9 million in cap space on a SG ... the team should probably fire the GM.

indeed. i said it at the time, but i wasn't necessarily opposed to the nik stauskas pick within a vacuum (despite my preference for elfrid payton). however, after drafting ben mclemore during the prior offseason, i simply couldn't fathom the decision to draft another SG in need of considerable development, especially without a single worthy veteran on the team who could hold down the position in the event of developmental struggles. with the likes of james harden and klay thompson out west, you can't be trotting out a SG rotation with a combined three years of experience; it's suicide. you're courting the possibility that you'll receive minimal and inconsistent production from your starter and your backup on a team that's already limited in its overall talent...

i am truly at a loss for words that the kings still need to seek help at SG after picking two of them in back-to-back drafts, both of whom are only a shade above league average from three. that's not at their position, mind you, where three point percentages trend upward. that's across every position in the entire nba. if the kings had an ace three-point shooter at another position, it may not matter as much, but this team is desperate for a reliable threat from outside, and it's unacceptable to me that the "pure shooters" they've drafted two years in a row aren't able to provide that threat with any measure of consistency. i may not be fond of the "pace and space" era of nba basketball, but a team with a dominant low-post presence like demarcus cousins absolutely needs a couple of guys that can be effective targets for big cuz to pass out of the double (and triple) team...

honestly, i have hope for ben mclemore and nik stauskas, but the kings don't have time to wait around for the development of two young and struggling players, on top of whomever they draft this offseason. they need to add quality veteran depth, which will push somebody out of the regular rotation. one of stauskas and mclemore could very well be traded in the near future, and because neither is bound to bring back much in return without being part of a larger package, either the kings' 2013 or 2014 draft selections will amount to yet another wasted lottery pick. if you're a small market backwater with little in the way of talent and the kind of in-house problems that the kings' front office has, good luck in the free agent market or on the trade block...

one awful and possible truth is that the kings may have already squandered their chance to build a winner around cousins. you simply cannot blow successive lottery picks, even after you luck into a talent like big cuz. you have to be intentional in your rebuild once you secure that superstar-level player. no other small market team that understands the importance of the draft has whiffed as often as the kings have in recent memory. jimmer fredette. thomas robinson. ben mclemore. nik stauskas. is there a bonafide all-star among them? is there even a starter among them? a rotation player? sometimes you swing and miss. it happens to the best of them. but four blatant misfires across two separate regimes? man... it's hard out here for a kings fan...

 

[twslam07]

I'll disagree to a degree. DeMarcus is only 24 years old; we have time to not take the "this year or bust" route. If he were 26 but more on 28 in terms of age, I'd agree with you. He's a loyal personality, doing his duty even when people around him aren't or are unable to, and that's admirable. We still have time, so I would consider getting someone younger than 30 if you want to make roster moves at the SG spot, so we have chances at competitiveness for 2+ years.

Winning is a gradual process. Most team's don't just all of a sudden catapult themselves into a #1, 2, or 3 seed (unless LeBron happens to sign with your team). It takes time for a team to build up to that level.

Cousins is such a great talent that basically any team that has cap room will be going after him. When that time comes, I hope the Kings are in the upper echelon as far as playoff seeds go because as loyal as Cousins is, he wants to win. If we don't start on that winning path next year, it will not only be 6 seasons where the Kings have failed to put a winning product around Cousins, but it will mean we have that much less time to convince him that he can win in Sacramento.

To keep Cousins happy and to keep him loyal, we need to be a high seed playoff team in his last year. Anything around the 5-8 range and it gets more risky, but to keep him happy in the meantime, we should be showing significant improvement as a team each year.

 

[captain bill]

I don't agree with the linear one step approach to transforming this team. I don't want to see the FO just signing the draft pick and signing a FA to fill in one hole. That's pure death. I'd be happy with everybody gone, sans Cousins. It all depends, of course, if we get back something more than trade exceptions. The Love deal was a great deal for Minni, imo. If the King make a deal like that for Gay, I'd be overjoyed. SA made a great deal to get Leonard. Their Tony Parker pick in the latter part of the first round was masterful (If memory served, the Kings pick Douby just after Parker). For this team to be very good, the FO must be very good, in the SA realm. Not ok, not pretty good. Very Good. The FO has to be daring and smart in the offseason.

This is not fantasy basketball. We have some talented players who have begun to develop chemistry together. Our team is better than the results indicated by this season, which has fallen apart due to injuries and the brilliant idea of firing Malone after a month.

If everyone is healthy next year, they can build on those results. Gay + Cousins is as a solid top 2, even in the stacked West. Collison is a solid role player. I think these are the guys you roll with - they know each other, came to play together, and have some history (albeit short). You build on that by looking for key pieces to help step up, and you might consider a big trade if it presents itself, but you don't actively blow up the team every year - that's a big part of the dysfunction we're experiencing now. The key here is more stability, not less.

 

[Dreadnought]

I'm a little surprised so many people are open to trading Ben. I would get rid of Nik over Ben in a heartbeat in similar circumstances.

 

[pshn80]

A rookie is not going to put this team over the huge hump they have to surmount to be competitive in the NBA, AND to be respected again.

They HAVE to have another solid playmaker out there - someone Demarcus can reliably pass to when he's double-teamed and not fumble the ball.
Someone who take advantage of the lack of attention they are being paid and make the other team pay.
Someone who can learn Rudy and Demarcus' tendencies and be in the right place at the right time.
Someone who doesn't crumble when the game gets tight.
Someone with experience in the playoffs, preferably.

Unfortunately, they need that kind of player at TWO positions - SG and PF.

One would do nicely. Let's hope for one. My preference would be at the SG position.

 

[pshn80]

No way you trade Ben for a 30 year old Gibson. The bulls most likely will have to trade Taj giving up Ben is way too much.
I would trade for Chandler maybe Nik/our 1st for Chandler/there 1st.

Keep Nik. Trade Ben.

 

[sdballer]

One would do nicely. Let's hope for one. My preference would be at the SG position.

The problem is that the sg available are mostly more consistent 3andd guys like Ben, but at 3 times the cost. With all of the other needs we have, our wasting of assets means upgrading the sg for more consistency there leads to little ability to solidify other areas of need.

We need multiple defenders and shooters in the backcourt plus one if those guys ideally can handle the ball and initiate offense.

We can't continue to have both backup sf be inconsistent shooters who aren't good defenders.

That's before getting to our pf and backup c issues.

All of those issues and we have one draft pick, $9 in cap space and few tradeable assets.

 

[pshn80]

A lot of posts in this thread will have fans proposing radial change at the SG position, because neither of our young players can adequately play the position even as a 5th starter on a so-so team. If the team spends back to back top 8 picks on SGs and then should consider spending most of its 9 million in cap space on a SG ... the team should probably fire the GM.

Firing the GM can only be done once so is not an issue. Spend the whole thing on a starting SG.

 

[Kingster]

one awful and possible truth is that the kings may have already squandered their chance to build a winner around cousins. you simply cannot blow successive lottery picks, even after you luck into a talent like big cuz. you have to be intentional in your rebuild once you secure that superstar-level player. no other small market team that understands the importance of the draft has whiffed as often as the kings have in recent memory. jimmer fredette. thomas robinson. ben mclemore. nik stauskas. is there a bonafide all-star among them? is there even a starter among them? a rotation player? sometimes you swing and miss. it happens to the best of them. but four blatant misfires across two separate regimes? man... it's hard out here for a kings fan...

Agreed. This is a distinct possibility. If the Kings can't make some dramatic moves this offseason that provide further building blocks around Cousins, they may have to go to plan B - look to trade him before they lose leverage.

 

[pshn80]

I don't agree with the linear one step approach to transforming this team. I don't want to see the FO just signing the draft pick and signing a FA to fill in one hole. That's pure death. I'd be happy with everybody gone, sans Cousins. It all depends, of course, if we get back something more than trade exceptions. The Love deal was a great deal for Minni, imo. If the King make a deal like that for Gay, I'd be overjoyed. SA made a great deal to get Leonard. Their Tony Parker pick in the latter part of the first round was masterful (If memory served, the Kings pick Douby just after Parker). For this team to be very good, the FO must be very good, in the SA realm. Not ok, not pretty good. Very Good. The FO has to be daring and smart in the offseason.

I don't agree with the linear one step approach to transforming this team. I don't want to see the FO just signing the draft pick and signing a FA to fill in one hole. That's pure death. I'd be happy with everybody gone, sans Cousins. It all depends, of course, if we get back something more than trade exceptions. The Love deal was a great deal for Minni, imo. If the King make a deal like that for Gay, I'd be overjoyed. SA made a great deal to get Leonard. Their Tony Parker pick in the latter part of the first round was masterful (If memory served, the Kings pick Douby just after Parker). For this team to be very good, the FO must be very good, in the SA realm. Not ok, not pretty good. Very Good. The FO has to be daring and smart in the offseason.

Respectfully disagree with all of it. We would be set back to god-knows-where dancing lightly between 24 and 34 season wins yet again.

 

[Kingster]

This is not fantasy basketball. We have some talented players who have begun to develop chemistry together. Our team is better than the results indicated by this season, which has fallen apart due to injuries and the brilliant idea of firing Malone after a month.

If everyone is healthy next year, they can build on those results. Gay + Cousins is as a solid top 2, even in the stacked West. Collison is a solid role player. I think these are the guys you roll with - they know each other, came to play together, and have some history (albeit short). You build on that by looking for key pieces to help step up, and you might consider a big trade if it presents itself, but you don't actively blow up the team every year - that's a big part of the dysfunction we're experiencing now. The key here is more stability, not less.

I don't agree with this. Talent > Chemistry. If it weren't we could continue to add vanilla topping to the vanilla ice cream to the white cake with the one cherry on top. Yuck, I hate that. I hope this FO is a little more imaginative than that.

 

[Kingster]

Respectfully disagree with all of it. We would be set back to god-knows-where dancing lightly between 24 and 34 season wins yet again.

How can you possibly come close to knowing that? Sure, if we end up getting trade exceptions, we would be worse than what we are currently.

 

[pshn80]

indeed. i said it at the time, but i wasn't necessarily opposed to the nik stauskas pick within a vacuum (despite my preference for elfrid payton). however, after drafting ben mclemore during the prior offseason, i simply couldn't fathom the decision to draft another SG in need of considerable development, especially without a single worthy veteran on the team who could hold down the position in the event of developmental struggles. with the likes of james harden and klay thompson out west, you can't be trotting out a SG rotation with a combined three years of experience; it's suicide. you're courting the possibility that you'll receive minimal and inconsistent production from your starter and your backup on a team that's already limited in its overall talent...

i am truly at a loss for words that the kings still need to seek help at SG after picking two of them in back-to-back drafts, both of whom are only a shade above league average from three. that's not at their position, mind you, where three point percentages trend upward. that's across every position in the entire nba. if the kings had an ace three-point shooter at another position, it may not matter as much, but this team is desperate for a reliable threat from outside, and it's unacceptable to me that the "pure shooters" they've drafted two years in a row aren't able to provide that threat with any measure of consistency. i may not be fond of the "pace and space" era of nba basketball, but a team with a dominant low-post presence like demarcus cousins absolutely needs a couple of guys that can be effective targets for big cuz to pass out of the double (and triple) team...

honestly, i have hope for ben mclemore and nik stauskas, but the kings don't have time to wait around for the development of two young and struggling players, on top of whomever they draft this offseason. they need to add quality veteran depth, which will push somebody out of the regular rotation. one of stauskas and mclemore could very well be traded in the near future, and because neither is bound to bring back much in return without being part of a larger package, either the kings' 2013 or 2014 draft selections will amount to yet another wasted lottery pick. if you're a small market backwater with little in the way of talent and the kind of in-house problems that the kings' front office has, good luck in the free agent market or on the trade block...

one awful and possible truth is that the kings may have already squandered their chance to build a winner around cousins. you simply cannot blow successive lottery picks, even after you luck into a talent like big cuz. you have to be intentional in your rebuild once you secure that superstar-level player. no other small market team that understands the importance of the draft has whiffed as often as the kings have in recent memory. jimmer fredette. thomas robinson. ben mclemore. nik stauskas. is there a bonafide all-star among them? is there even a starter among them? a rotation player? sometimes you swing and miss. it happens to the best of them. but four blatant misfires across two separate regimes? man... it's hard out here for a kings fan...

History. And history we need to keep in mind. But not history that affects what we do next.

 

[rainmaker]

i am truly at a loss for words that the kings still need to seek help at SG after picking two of them in back-to-back drafts, both of whom are only a shade above league average from three. that's not at their position, mind you, where three point percentages trend upward. that's across every position in the entire nba. if the kings had an ace three-point shooter at another position, it may not matter as much, but this team is desperate for a reliable threat from outside, and it's unacceptable to me that the "pure shooters" they've drafted two years in a row aren't able to provide that threat with any measure of consistency. i may not be fond of the "pace and space" era of nba basketball, but a team with a dominant low-post presence like demarcus cousins absolutely needs a couple of guys that can be effective targets for big cuz to pass out of the double (and triple) team...

I agree mostly. However, it would be slightly more tolerable if we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot at PF on top of it while killing our cap flexibility, among a few other things. I can stomach having two guys developing at one position, SG, if we had done a better job getting a defensive 4, a backup center, a higher quality backup point and something resembling a 3pt threat off the bench..

Ben and Nik's inexperience/lack of production is magnified because it's on top of the gaping holes throughout this roster. Yes, a lack of a 3pt threat and shaky defense hurts us at the 2, but DC shooting 37% from 3 doesn't help that all that much either, with Rudy also shooting 35% from 3. Then we look at our bench and there again there's a serious lack of 3pt threats. Ray's at 29%, Omri's at 35% and DWill's at 33%. So we've really done a phenomenal job at building a roster which can't spread the floor. We've got a PF in JT who's better as a 3rd big and while he's a good 1v1 defender, isn't that good of a help defender and doesn't help spacing out there. Then we get to a real weakness I've been talking about since Aug which is no backup center. Despite Ben and Nik at SG, our starters have been able to play damn well as a unit at times, we just get slaughtered when Cuz hits the bench as we have no rim protection. We also don't have a single guard on this roster who can penetrate, break down his man and create. Maybe more see the value in that now that Reke is gone, it's incredibly valuable.

Point being, drafting two rookie SGs back to back isn't an issue which operates in a vacuum. If we had built a better and more rounded roster, we could hide their lack of production a fair amount more while allowing them to develop. But since we didn't and we have weaknesses all over the place, the SG issue is magnified. You need a well balanced roster if you're going to develop two young players and we point blank have failed at that.

And yes, that's a fireable offense, through and through, before even getting to the Malone fiasco and dumping the season in the garbage. So, fire PDA. Clear out anyone who was involved in building this roster. Only two leftovers from the Maloof era are Cuz and JT, so this is the creation of this FO.