Chupacabra
Starter
Jared Dudley has looked great lately, plus I'm fascinated by middling players. Perhaps there is a trade out there for us where we could land Dudley for either Hield or Bogdonovic.
Hield or Bogdanovic?
- Thread starter twslam07
- Start date
Agent23
Starter
Sarcasm?!
Buddy just doesn't have the basketball IQ of a great player. He's a solid shooter when he doesn't have to create his own shot. He doesn't really make other players around him better. He has too many unforced turnovers. There are times when he looks completely lost on the floor. Great shooter, but I need more at this level.
sactowndog
All-Star
Well given you don’t think BBIQ is of no significance, this choice is predictable.
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Chupacabra
Starter
You've made the claim that Bogdon has more, now support your claim. If he does in fact have more than Hield, to what degree? Significant enough to replace Hield's shooting?
If shooting is the only thing we are replacing then yes. That's all Buddy can do. Bogi makes others better around him and actually create his own shot. Buddy creates more horrific turnovers than shots for either himself or others. Both fall asleep on defense from time to time so for me the comparison is strictly on the offensive end.
sactowndog
All-Star
Well first I have not given an opinion on Bogi versus Buddy but I clearly would not say it is by a mile either way.
But to answer your question, data I would look at would be asst to turnover ratio, defensive rating and true shooting percentage.
Buddy
Asst to Turnover: .56
TS%: 54.8%
Defensive rating: 118.4
Bogi
Asst to Turnover: 2.31
TS%: 53.0
Defensive rating: 110.0
This numbers don’t mean to me it’s a slam dunk to start Bogi over Buddy but it’s clearly neither by a mile.
Double negative. I never said BBIQ is of no significance, I think it is over rated at the NBA level.
Hield is one of the greatest shooters around. He works on defense and has a big motor.
Bogdan is a streak shooter, that can pass the ball well. He is slow afoot.
That's not really a fair comparison. Buddy isn't used as a play maker like Bogie is so his Ast/TO ratio isn't going to be nearly as good. You're also using their TS% off a 9 game sample this year. Bogie is a better defender, there's no doubt about that. He's not a good defender, he's just not horrible like Buddy is. I just still have doubts that Bogie can be the main play maker or even share 50% of the load off the bench. He can get assists and he's not a turnover machine but outside of those assists and turnovers, a lot of possessions ran by him are completed with a bad shot taken by either him or a player he put in a bad position at the end of the shot clock.
To me it kind of depends on how Bagley turns out. If Bagley is an offensive force, then he's going to take away shots from every position. In that case, you may be better of with Bogie at the 2, since he plays better defense and is still a good shooter. Hield's value comes from his shooting and if you take that away from him, he's not nearly as valuable.
sactowndog
All-Star
Fair point on the double negative. I read it after I posted it and thought oh I screwed up the corrected it to screw it up
sactowndog
All-Star
I agree it’s not a fair comparison but I was trying to give a fair answer of measuring BBIQ and how does it compare to shooting. For publicly available stats, I’m not sure we have a better proxy. But even if they are the best proxy, I agree they don’t tell the whole story.
sactowndog
All-Star
MizzouKing
Starter
Love Buddy but I dont think Bogi is nearly as much of a liability with ball protection, he's a better ball handler, and I bet he's the one we'll be counting on more with Swipa out for a few weeks.
ockingsfan
Starter
I really would like for at least one of our players to show Alpha Dawg scoring mentality.
I was hoping that would be Fox, but now that he is injured, it's time for Buddy to show he is the $100 million dollar man!
If Buddy ever wants to show he is the man, now is his opportunity to shine. There is rno excuses, Buddy should be averaging 24+ppg with Fox out. The Kings need him to step up big time!
I was hoping that would be Fox, but now that he is injured, it's time for Buddy to show he is the $100 million dollar man!
If Buddy ever wants to show he is the man, now is his opportunity to shine. There is rno excuses, Buddy should be averaging 24+ppg with Fox out. The Kings need him to step up big time!
parker
Bench
The issue with both Buddy and Fox, and I would include Bogi and Bagley here as well, is when they try "to show Alpha Dawg scoring mentality," they end up playing a one-on-five, selfish game. They drive into traffic, they throw up garbage, they dribble into a turnover. This team needs to develop an identity as a team. They don't need a single savior, alpha dawg--that's how they have lost 20 point leads and failed to finish in many a fourth quarter--one guy trying to do it all (and failing).
Move the ball and create an "alpha dawg" team mentality.
ockingsfan
Starter
I think this team is in desperate need of an Alpha Dawg or two.
When Fox was more aggressive and averaging 20+ppg and the leading scorer, the Kings seem to have a much better chance of winning. The constant "team play" have lead to our leading scorer getting like 15 pts and us losing by double digits.
NO team in the NBA wins without an Alpha Dawg or two on the team these days.
We need someone or someones to lead this team in scoring (ie 20+ppg) and not have a team full of followers.
parker
Bench
My point is that Fox, Buddy and others have tried to take on an Alpha Dawg mentality at the end of games or when games are beginning to turn and more times than not that strategy has failed. Banging into a wall of defenders or dribbling with loose handles isn't a recipe for success, no matter if you are scoring 20+ or not.
You could be right that a team needs an alpha dawg, but at least right now, they don't have anyone who has alpha dawg skills to pull it off (at least not consistently).
Also, I don't have time or energy to look at box scores, but I would be surprised if the Kings' high scorer in the majority of their games only had 15 points.
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ockingsfan
Starter
Someone needs to develop into the unequivocal Alpha Dawg for the Kings. And I think it is essential for the team to move forward.
While Fox may dribble into a wall of defenders, once he establishes himself as a legit "superstar" and "alpha dawg", he will start getting "superstar" calls from the refs. Refs don't give those calls to your "average" player and Fox is considered an average player so far by the refs.
Look at Trae Young, he is establishing that "superstar" , "alpha dawg" mentality and the refs take notice and he gets the calls. Fox isn't a "superstar" and he gets mugged with no calls. Big difference in how refs calls the game for "superstars". If the Kings are a bunch of average players, they will continue to get the no calls. If we can establish that "superstar" player, then the Kings will be getting more "superstar" calls.
For the Kings to be able to counter the other teams "superstar" player treatment, especially in crunch time, we need to establish that "superstar" player on our team. No more Mr. Nice Guys, which is what this team is full of, which is why we always lose.
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You do not necessarily need an alpha dawg to be successful. Basketball is more of a team game than almost any other. Share the ball, be unselfish, play team defense, rebound. That is how you win. Some teams have all-star players some really don't. You cannot wish Fox of Hield or anyone else into all-star status. They have to play their way there.
BLNINJA #81
Bench
I haven't voted on this yet, but so far from what I'm seeing, I'll be clicking that trade buddy button
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Someone said it perfectly last night... (paraphrase) “If Ben McLemore wasn’t a horrible shooter, you’d have Buddy Hield.”
Unfortunately you don’t know what Bogi will show up game to game. Good Bogi >>> Hield by quite a bit. Bad Bogi is nearly unplayable, and he stuck around for a season and change. Hield even at his best has the b-ball IQ of a brick.
I go Hield. But the gap is way closer than it should be for a guy who just got 90 million.
Hate to be the “I called it” guy, but I was never feeling Buddy’s breakout as a true breakout and saw a regression coming. Hopefully he does what he usually does and proves me wrong.
Unfortunately you don’t know what Bogi will show up game to game. Good Bogi >>> Hield by quite a bit. Bad Bogi is nearly unplayable, and he stuck around for a season and change. Hield even at his best has the b-ball IQ of a brick.
I go Hield. But the gap is way closer than it should be for a guy who just got 90 million.
Hate to be the “I called it” guy, but I was never feeling Buddy’s breakout as a true breakout and saw a regression coming. Hopefully he does what he usually does and proves me wrong.
