Has IT's run come to an end?

Gary said:
It kind of bums me out that we have people wanting to give up on a guy after about 7-10 games starting for another guy that's had 2 and a half years without any improvement at that position. Add to that the guy they want to play PG isn't even as good at the PG spot as this rookie that was the last pick in the draft who has only started a handful of games.
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No doubt, Thomas has actually only played bad the last 2 games too... So I dont understand all the controversy and hate directed at him right now. It dosen't really matter though, because Smart wont take him out of the Starting 5. He see's whats going on, and I give him full credit as a coach for having the balls too do what our last coach couldn't.

I don't see why people hate the fact that Reke isn't our PG right now? I meen seriously, I've seen more improvement in Reke in the last 8-10 games then I did for the last 3 years! He's cutting well, Moving more fluid within the offense, and looking like a more complete player.

If anything people should be happy for Reke, because this is what should of been done a long time ago to take him to that next level. It seems like its more of an ego thing for people though.. then actually taking a good look at whats really going on with Reke right now.
 
IT is solid and im happy for him to be doing well but his success coupled with Reke's change in position only highlights our need for a pass first PG. IT is not the long term solution there

There will still be times where reke initiates the offense just because of the type of player he is and his ball dominant tendencies.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
No doubt, Thomas has actually only played bad the last 2 games too... So I dont understand all the controversy and hate directed at him right now. It dosen't really matter though, because Smart wont take him out of the Starting 5. He see's whats going on, and I give him full credit as a coach for having the balls too do what our last coach couldn't.

I don't see why people hate the fact that Reke isn't our PG right now? I meen seriously, I've seen more improvement in Reke in the last 8-10 games then I did for the last 3 years! He's cutting well, Moving more fluid within the offense, and looking like a more complete player.

If anything people should be happy for Reke, because this is what should of been done a long time ago to take him to that next level. It seems like its more of an ego thing for people though.. then actually taking a good look at whats really going on with Reke right now.
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It's really not about PG. He can be the SG, people here wouldn't mind. It's about him not being utilised enough. Seriously, how would you guys feel if we decide to only use DMC for catch and shoots, much like at the start of every game? As in we run that same play for him all game long, but don't give him the ball inside etc. It's just not making full use of your star players.

I do agree that at the end of the day the experience will benefit Tyreke, and he's clearly becoming a better player off the ball. Which makes me wonder why everyone is so hard on him as well. He was clearly getting better at PG recently, then willingly made the switch to SF and guess what, as you admitted is showing improvement and still playing well within his role. Yet, people are all down on him, saying we should trade him etc. What I see is a talented guy who should be given more time under proper coaching, and is willing to do what it takes to help the team win. 2 years under Westphal basically told to do whatever he wants is not good for development, yet people make it seem as if we've done everything we cna to play him at PG for 2 years but he hasn't succeeded.

The main issue is - how long are we going to keep Tyreke scoring mainly off the ball? For the rest of the season, then hope he develops a jumpshot in the offseason? Can we win a lot of games with one of our best players not getting the ball much?
 
mac said:
I think that he was finally showing some pretty decent progress at PG until Smart moved him to SF. Agreed, for the few games IT was playing well the offense did look smoother, but at the same time we gave up a lot more points as well IIRC. But now IT isn't playing any better than Tyreke has been historically at the point, and not setting guys up either.

The problem with a lineup of Tyreke, DMC, Thornton and IT? You have 4 guys who right now seem to want to dominate the ball. I think Tyreke should have been allowed to continue trying to play PG with proper guidance. He was getting better at it. He will NEVER be a pass-first PG, but neither is Derrick Rose or Westbrook. I'm fine with playing him at SG as well.
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I don't buy into Isaiah needing or wanting to dominate the ball. His versatility allows him to do both. Unlike Tyreke. He can and does just catch and shoot. Unlike Tyreke. IT is feeling his way on when to drive, when to set up, when to pass at various times in the game. It's going to take some time. But at the end of two and one half years he won't have nothing to show for it. Unlike Tyreke.

PS I also think IT got carried away with himself when he won the Rookie of the Month award, and his decision-making suffered because of it. I don't think that's going to be some prolongued trend, however.
 
mac said:
It's really not about PG. He can be the SG, people here wouldn't mind. It's about him not being utilised enough. Seriously, how would you guys feel if we decide to only use DMC for catch and shoots, much like at the start of every game? As in we run that same play for him all game long, but don't give him the ball inside etc. It's just not making full use of your star players.

I do agree that at the end of the day the experience will benefit Tyreke, and he's clearly becoming a better player off the ball. Which makes me wonder why everyone is so hard on him as well. He was clearly getting better at PG recently, then willingly made the switch to SF and guess what, as you admitted is showing improvement and still playing well within his role. Yet, people are all down on him, saying we should trade him etc. What I see is a talented guy who should be given more time under proper coaching, and is willing to do what it takes to help the team win. 2 years under Westphal basically told to do whatever he wants is not good for development, yet people make it seem as if we've done everything we cna to play him at PG for 2 years but he hasn't succeeded.

The main issue is - how long are we going to keep Tyreke scoring mainly off the ball? For the rest of the season, then hope he develops a jumpshot in the offseason? Can we win a lot of games with one of our best players not getting the ball much?
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That's fine with me (Reke at SG). That's what I have been wanting pretty much since we drafted him. He needs to improve his jumper though and he needs to be able to cut without the ball.

The problem though that I have is Thornton is a better SG than Evans, and Thomas is a better PG than Evans.. Evans is a better basketball player than the two though so it puts Smart in a tough situation. I don't know what would have happened if Salmons wasn't sucking this year. Would Thornton be the starting SG or Evans?
 
Rug King said:
Thomas's demise has been greatly exaggerated. His last minute steal last night won the game.
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It did, but his size on defense limited him to less than 20 minutes.

And that's the real thing here. IT's demise is not as as a useful player and hopefully sparkplug, its as a starting PG in a league full of really good offensively aggressive full sized ones right now. Brought in off the bench where we can control matchups and surprise teams with the change of pace, he can still be an aggressive guy who makes plays for us. Its as a starter that things become dicey with other teams being able to gameplan around him, our defensive flexibility shot to hell, and his competing for shots with the big three guys.
 
Hang in there with IT. He is a little short for defensive purposes but he is able to compensate somewhat. In the meantime I think he starts because we don't have anyone who can do it as well as he can. The second unit is good in that regard right now with Salmons bring up and initiating, Fredette doing some good work after that, and Tyreke alternating in the job occasionally. It all is working pretty good for the moment. Keeps the coach active in quickly adjusting when called for. I hope it continues to work.
 
Yes. After watching the game today, its pretty obvious that now he is only trying to get his own shot rather than setting up his teammates like he did at first. If that's how hes going to play, I prefer Jimmer starting over him.
 
There's two sides, people have to move without the ball as well. Thomas has dipped in form but last night i saw a lot offensive stagnation.
 
Spok22 said:
Yes. After watching the game today, its pretty obvious that now he is only trying to get his own shot rather than setting up his teammates like he did at first. If that's how hes going to play, I prefer Jimmer starting over him.
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Thus is the curse of sudden increase in minutes. TBH I think he can be like a Derek Fisher for us, but better, if he would settle into a role where he tries to set guys up first and then knows when to get his own offense. Anytime we have him dribbling around for a large part of the shotclock he isn't doing his job. Also, the team overall needs to get more patient with their offense (which comes with experience). Too many times we end up throwing away 2nd chance opportunities because we're too eager to get a shot up. Trust the offense, kick it back out and reset!
 
Bricklayer said:
It did, but his size on defense limited him to less than 20 minutes.

And that's the real thing here. IT's demise is not as as a useful player and hopefully sparkplug, its as a starting PG in a league full of really good offensively aggressive full sized ones right now. Brought in off the bench where we can control matchups and surprise teams with the change of pace, he can still be an aggressive guy who makes plays for us. Its as a starter that things become dicey with other teams being able to gameplan around him, our defensive flexibility shot to hell, and his competing for shots with the big three guys.
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That's the key point right there... IT today is still riding much higher than he was after he was drafted. He had a few games where he looked like an all-star (like JJ Barea during the 2011 Playoffs), and now he is what he is, a young rookie learning the game, with strengths and weaknesses like everyone else. At least now, we know he is good enough to have a job in the NBA (which you don't always get from the 60th pick). If you were drafting today, where do you think he would go?
 
treach1976 said:
That's the key point right there... IT today is still riding much higher than he was after he was drafted. He had a few games where he looked like an all-star (like JJ Barea during the 2011 Playoffs), and now he is what he is, a young rookie learning the game, with strengths and weaknesses like everyone else. At least now, we know he is good enough to have a job in the NBA (which you don't always get from the 60th pick). If you were drafting today, where do you think he would go?
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What number was the Lakers' first round pick?
 
As I have stated in another IT thread IT is a nice backup thats not a knock on him but he's best served as playing with the reserve roll when a change of pace is needed. Same goes goes for MT as was evident last night (Kings/Hawks) if they both struggle were toast because the backcourt can't generate enough points or stops.
 
I think its time to get IT out of the starting lineup. He used to run the team and keep the ball moving. Now hes turned selfish and makes stupid turnovers. 14 points and 2 assists is not what we need from our starting pg imo. And if that's what were looking for then i would rather have jimmer out there.
 
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