Grades vs. Sonics 11/20

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Peja ( A- ) -- Huge huge first half where the hoop obviously looked like an ocean, and the Sonics showed little interest in even trying to slow him down. Started off nailing big bombs from all over the court, and even scored in the post for the second game in a row -- who is this man? By halftime was shooting 9-10, something like 6-7 from three point land, and had 25pts. Then things turned, and not in a good way. Got smacked on his sore hand by Danny Fortson (for once may have been a legit play by the big ole thug -- swiping at the ball) about 5 minutes into the third quarter. Left the game for a few minutes, then returned but was never remotely the same. Of course I say that, but the fact of the matter was he hadn't scored in the third quarter BEFORE the injury either, and our lead was already down to three when he got hurt. So hard to tell whether it broke up a huge night for him, or whether he was doing the all too frequent tailing off bit, and who knows how it works out. But what did seem obvious was that the injury crippled him mentally, as he was knocked back into ineffectiveness and passiveness after a very aggressive start to the game. If we'd had any better options on the bench, we would have been well advised to play them, because Peja really contributed very little over the final 15 minutes of the game. The shot was off, wasn't on the glass, did not look to handle, etc. Just an entirely different player. Obvious A+ first half. Would have been some sort of D probably in the second half if he was healthy. But have to assume the injury played some role in that, whether it be major or minor, and so looking mostly to the first half for the grade.
Reef ( B+ ) -- along with Peja started off scorching attacking the ineffective interior defense of the Sonics. A 10 pt first quarter, and did not miss a shot. Quieted way down after the first. Passed well, but not many shots, and didn't take care of the glass. Continuing to have traveling problems for turnovers on his spin moves. He was still there on through the end, gave a little burst in the third, tried a few moves in the 4th in the face of increased defensive pressure from the Sonics without much success. But maybe becoming too MUCH of passer for us at times. Did a very nice job obviously, and had assists on several of Peja's threes as they worked the old Webber/Peja inside out stuff. But offensively maybe a bit passive when we needed somebody to take over with Peja off his game. Just too good a scorer to be invisible for the bulk of the game. Hard to assess who that falls on -- Reef, Adelman, teammates? In any case, very efficient offensively, but low impact when it came to winning time. While the rebounding was subpar all night, snatched a big one down the stretch -- ironically maybe the last good board I can remmeber us getting as in the final two minutes the Sonics asserted themselves and killed us on the glass.
Miller ( B ) -- a couple of early jumpers, a turnaround, and fighting decently on the boards, but allowed Vitaly Potapenko ("The Ukraine Train"!) to light it up in the first half. Which isn't good. More nice passing from the high elbows and dropped a couple of uncommon moves for him during the game again including a nifty spin on Radmanovic. Went on a big run to end the third, and in the 4th was scrapping pretty well inside and coming up with boards and points. Thought it was a more legit rebounding effort tonight than the nearly identical statistical outing on Friday. Not great certainly, but competed and got his at important times. Loses the "+" from his grade for his play down the stretch when he was involved in most of what sunk us. Forced a bad shot on a big trip. Then he and Reef simply could not clean the defensive glass on a Sonics possession in the final two minutes that lasted about 40 seconds as they grabbed o-board after o-board after o-board while our frontline stood around looking confused. And then of course choked the two huge free throws with 26 seconds to go that would have tied the game and put us in good position to win it. And that was kind of it for us -- put the Sonics in a commanding position that we could not recover from.
Bonzi ( B ) -- scrappy effort early as he was victimized a few times when matched against Lewis for his superior strength/post toughness, and had trouble converting around the hoop although he was in there a lot grabbing a lot of misses etc.. Picked it up in the third and began to make plays on both ends of the court. And as the game slowed down and became more of a defensive battle in the 4th, Bonzi seemed to be more in his element and played big down the stretch. Did better on defense against Ray Allen late than Rashard Lewis early. Big rebounding numbers again as we remain a freaky team -- seems every other night our OG is grabbing as many boards as our C & PF combined. But tonight it didn't "feel" like Bonzi was ever really dominating the glass in the same way he has in past games. Good effort that got better as the game went along, but only had impact in short spurts.
Bibby ( B+ ) -- fairly quiet first half picking his spots but obviously taking a backseat to Peja, and to a lesser degree Reef early. Picked it up significantly in the second half, but was never as scorching hot as the first half guys and never really got on a streak where he hit 4 or 5 in a row. Hit two miss one sort of stuff. But a factor, and one of his better efforts on the year. Defense on Ridnour was not bad really. Last couple of games have been encouraging in that respect at least. Isn't going to smother anybody, but is showing a little defensive backbone and occasionally getting in the way at least. Turnovers were a problem, as he led a parade of Kings making sloppy passes for no apparent reason given the Sonics version of "defense" (think us on a particularly bad night). Tried to play the hero and bail us out late again. After the missed Brad FTs, he nailed a big three with 12 seconds to go in classic Bibby fashion to bring us back within one, and when Allen unexpectedly opened the door for us by missing 1 of 2 himself on the other end, it was Mike with a clean look at a three (that Sonics "defense" again) to win it....but no. One too many to pull out of the hat. Still, a 25 pt night and attempted late game heroics. Did not feel like A-grade stuff, but did at least feel like Mike Bibby out there rather than the imposter who was running around the first few weeks.
Kevin ( F ) -- came off the bench ragged, immediately turned it over, almost turned it over again, was unable to convert an alley oop. Not the start he was looking for. Drew the Ray Allen assingment, and while he did a good job on his first possession against him, therafter he got really lit up inside and out. Particularly a problem in the third with Peja out as Allen exploded and pulled the Sonics ahead. Bad outing for the kid as he just looked flustered from the beginning, and then was badly schooled by Ray all over the court. Jason Hart actually ended up taking his minutes late as a better OG option on the night. Think Kevin has to be careful here -- Rick has shown some confidence in him, making him one of our top three benchers every night. But even though he has few options on the bench right now, efforts like this could see others getting a shot at those minutes.
Thomas ( B- ) -- hit his first shot and looked as solid as he has all year in the first half. But was having problems trying to guard Vlad Rad in the first half and getting scored upon on the other side of the court. Blocked a Ridnour shot at the first half buzzer. Continued solid play in the second half, although it figures on a night when he finally brought a little offense, his boarding would fall off. Was scrapping in there, but not coming up with many. Solid bench effort accounting for ALL of our bench points (with 9 :eek: ).
Hart ( C+ ) -- got hurt offensively by Mateen Cleaves of all people during the first half and didn't do much on the other end. Finally used in the defensive stopper role we had hoped in the late third when he was brought in to try to play cooler on Allen with Martin ineffective. And in that role played alongside Bibby as an OG, and became a defensive pest for he rest of his stint no matter who he was guarding. Unfortunately offensively could not hit anything, and continues to force odd out of rhythm shots and not show much ability to direct the team. C+ might be a bit generous, but at least finally brought some of what we needed on defense and was never really supposed to be much of a scorer on offense.
 
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VF21

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SME
#2
Mobile? As opposed to immobile?

Oh god... If you go down to ignominy, indefatigable, indictment, or whatever D-Mass was referring to with his cryptic use of the "I" word, we are - without a doubt - DOOMED!
 
K

Kings241

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#3
Peja: A- Came out huge in the 1rst half but unfortunately his sore finger kept him to 0 points in the 2nd half. Outstanding performance anyway.

Wells: B+ did an alright job on Ray Allen during the first half but let him get on fire in the 2nd half. Continued to contribute with his outstanding rebounding skills.

Bibby: A- Another offensive game for Mike Bibby. His shot looked good throughtout the whole game. Made a lot of crunch time shots that kept the Kings alive and did a pretty good job on Luke Ridnour.

Brad Miller: B+ This was an identical Brad Miller we saw the other day against the Bucks. He was a big part of the offense during the 1rst half but seemed to lose his tempo in the 2nd half. Couldnt really hit the critical freethrows down the stretch.

Shareef: B+ He also had a Brad Miller type of game with 8 assists. Wasnt really a factor in the 2nd half.

Bench:D+ Except for Kenny Thomas the bench looked like it did not exist. Kevin really made a few bad plays and Hart just seemed to have no offensive flow in his game.

RA: A- Seem to call out good plays and run the offense through Brad and Shareef. So far it has seemed effective but the only thing that worrys me about this high post offense is rebounding. Wells is our leading rebounder with 8 rpg.
 
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VF21

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#4
Kings241 said:
Bench: C+ Except for Kenny Thomas the bench looked like it did not exist. Kevin really made a few bad plays and Hart just seemed to have no offensive flow in his game.
You're kidding right? A C+, indicating slightly BETTER than mere average?

I don't think so...I would give the bench a D, and that's being generous.
 
#5
I really thought Brad buried us with his plays down the stretch. Turnovers and bad shot selection really hurt us, but he did carry us for a while there while Peja was gone. Overall he was ok I guess...not good enough for a B+ though.
 
A

AriesMar27

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#7
bench gets a F+..... you really cant blame the starters for this one.... they played a great game while they were in up until the 4th qtr i guess.....
 
K

Kings241

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#8
VF21 said:
You're kidding right? A C+, indicating slightly BETTER than mere average?

I don't think so...I would give the bench a D, and that's being generous.
Yea your right. I was just taking the fact that RA only play 2 players from the bench and they only got like 12 minutes but still they should of gave out more effort then they did today. Hart and Kevin, and Kenny better get their offensive game to the highest level by tommorow or otherwise we are screwed.:eek: Anyone remember that time we got blown out by the Spurs at home. Well this time it may be even worser with no bench. :eek: :eek:
 
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Smart_guy3

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#10
SacTownKid said:
Well, actually you can put some of the blame on the starters. 17 turnovers, is not going to win you many games.
The bench caused us the game not the turnovers apparently Peja getting 1 point in the 2nd half didn't help either.
 
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Kings241

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#11
Smart_guy3 said:
The bench caused us the game not the turnovers apparently Peja getting 1 point in the 2nd half didn't help either.
You mean 0 points right. ;) Im pretty sure if Danny Fortson wouldnt have injured Peja's shooting hand Peja would of added on to his 1rst half 6-7 3pt shooting and we would have won the game.
 
#12
Kings241 said:
You mean 0 points right. ;) Im pretty sure if Danny Fortson wouldnt have injured Peja's shooting hand Peja would of added on to his 1rst half 6-7 3pt shooting and we would have won the game.
Shooting 64% (9-14) FG and 75% (6-8) 3pt would be a good stat line for the full game anyway :)
 
#13
I haven't watched the game but looking at the box-score, we have shot a way better percentage of our shots and rebounded better, it is very rare that you lose uder these conditions.
 

VF21

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#14
karesk said:
I haven't watched the game but looking at the box-score, we have shot a way better percentage of our shots and rebounded better, it is very rare that you lose uder these conditions.
This is one of those games where there's just NO way the box score can tell the whole story. I would suggest - and I'm not blowing my own horn - that you scan the PBP thread for a little more insight into what happened and when... :)
 
#15
With the roster we have, that is as good as we're gonna get - a couple points short of beating western playoff-type teams. I thought we played decent.

Giving teams five shots at the basket in the last 90 seconds is usually costly.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
Oh, and the Rick grade, which would not fit in the post above (too many characters).

Adelman ( B ) -- there were a lot of positives to this one, mostly of course surrounding the offensive flow with the starters -- looks like everybody is finally buying in. As expected, the Sonics have no more concept of how to spell defense than we do. If you flashed a call for the d-e-f-e-n-s-e chant on their jumbotron, I'm pretty sure there would be dead silence in the arena as their fans looked around non-plussed and tried to sound it out. There were also a lot of negatives, mostly of course surrounding our own d-e-f-e-n-s-e, late rebounding issues, and that other nasty word for us -- b-e-n-c-h. Rick is just getting nothing consistent from ANY of those guys right now with the possible exception of Kenny, who may be becoming consistently just "ok". He shortened things way back up this time, not messing around with the 10 man and just going with what I'm sure hen hoped were his best 8 for this matchup. And got a total of 9 pts off the pine. Hard to blame him for running the starters minutes all up above 35 with production like that, and with the starters going good, but I know that will be the question this morning regardless and we may pay for it tonight. peja in particualr was not a contributor after the injury, but options just look so scarce right now. The game did finally turn defensive late as the teams began to get a little more serious about winning -- but I'm not sure whether its good or bad that we seemed to be making a decent defensive effort tonight given the results. Rick tried to play a few games to slow down the Sonics top scorers, but most did not work. Bonzi got hurt by Lewis early, and then after Peja hurt his hand we went through Peja, Bonzi, Martin and Hart all in an effort to slow down Allen, with spotty success at best. Not a bad overall effort, but one that hurts to let get away and may set us up to land at 4-7 after tonight
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#17
VF21 said:
Mobile? As opposed to immobile?

Oh god... If you go down to ignominy, indefatigable, indictment, or whatever D-Mass was referring to with his cryptic use of the "I" word, we are - without a doubt - DOOMED!
Mobile as on a late-night train to D.C.. ;)
 
#18
I'm of two minds on Bonzi. On the one hand I'm extremely impressed by his hustle and defense and rebounding, he's providing a lot of the X factor that the Kings have missed since Doug Christie started breaking down.

But he really needs to take a page from the Doug Christie playbook and only shoot on wide-wide-wide open shots and drives to the hoops. No more contested jump shots. There's no way he should be taking more shots than SAR. He's got to be the 5th offensive option.
 
#19
nbrans said:
I'm of two minds on Bonzi. On the one hand I'm extremely impressed by his hustle and defense and rebounding, he's providing a lot of the X factor that the Kings have missed since Doug Christie started breaking down.

But he really needs to take a page from the Doug Christie playbook and only shoot on wide-wide-wide open shots and drives to the hoops. No more contested jump shots. There's no way he should be taking more shots than SAR. He's got to be the 5th offensive option.
Since I haven't been able to watch a Kings' game, I've no idea if the Kings are doing this, but one of the things that I'd hope they'd be doing with Bonzi is having him flash into the post if Brad or Reef has the ball at the high post (more preferably Reef, as I don't see too much reason for Brad to be flashing into the low block). The post game has always been a strength that Bonzi has, and in games when he's gone off on the offensive end (I'm thinking particularly of a playoff game against the Mavs a few years ago), Bonzi started things out on the inside, and once his stroke got going, could move outside much more comfortably. It's an option that I'd hope the Kings would take advantage of since (a) the shots in close are higher percentage shots, and (b) Bonzi can hopefully draw some free throws to help the Kings get a little bit away from relying on jump shots to win games.

Of course, the post up SG isn't really an option that Adelman's had in the past, so it's not right from the old Kings' offensive playbook, but I'm sure it's a variation that's in a chapter in that book somewhere.

On a completely unrelated note, the Sixers have now incorporated the old Webber at the high post with a "dangerous" three point shooter running off a pick by the PG out to CWebb for a spot up three. I got a little reminiscient just watching it against the Cavs (they televise selected games a day or two late sometimes here in Japan, so I just got done watching it).

Edit: about the grades --- spot on as far as I'm concerned. Martin's going to head into that young player dog house of Adelman's, and quick, if he's not careful.
 
#20
4cwebb said:
Since I haven't been able to watch a Kings' game, I've no idea if the Kings are doing this, but one of the things that I'd hope they'd be doing with Bonzi is having him flash into the post if Brad or Reef has the ball at the high post (more preferably Reef, as I don't see too much reason for Brad to be flashing into the low block). The post game has always been a strength that Bonzi has, and in games when he's gone off on the offensive end (I'm thinking particularly of a playoff game against the Mavs a few years ago), Bonzi started things out on the inside, and once his stroke got going, could move outside much more comfortably. It's an option that I'd hope the Kings would take advantage of since (a) the shots in close are higher percentage shots, and (b) Bonzi can hopefully draw some free throws to help the Kings get a little bit away from relying on jump shots to win games.

Of course, the post up SG isn't really an option that Adelman's had in the past, so it's not right from the old Kings' offensive playbook, but I'm sure it's a variation that's in a chapter in that book somewhere.
They are indeed posting up Bonzi occasionally, however I don't ever recall it being particularly effective.
 
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playmaker0017

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#21
nbrans said:
They are indeed posting up Bonzi occasionally, however I don't ever recall it being particularly effective.
They run more post ups for Bonzi than for Reef, that's just silly.
 
#22
playmaker0017 said:
They run more post ups for Bonzi than for Reef, that's just silly.
I agree completely -- Shareef is proving to be great in the high post, but right now he's there almost all the time and rarely in the low post. That needs to change.
 
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playmaker0017

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#23
nbrans said:
I agree completely -- Shareef is proving to be great in the high post, but right now he's there almost all the time and rarely in the low post. That needs to change.
The problem is that if Reef isn't in the high post, than Miller is. If Miller is standing there, it pretty much means that there is no way to post up deep in the paint and get the ball.

All you can do is "flash" into the lane. (not a particularly strong suit of Reef's)

We need to run exclusive post up sets and pick and rolls occationally.

Of course, I saw one play I liked yesterday - and it seemed like a new addition:

Reef started with the ball in the high post. Bibby runs across the top and Reef picks his man while handing the ball to Bibby. Immediately Reef spins to the post to quickly receive the ball.

We ran it once last night and there was a foul before the play completely developed, but it was nice to see it.
 
#24
I was really disappointed with Kevin's performance. Wow. This team has no chance without consistent adequate performances from the bench players. What can Adelman do?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#25
Bonzi's shots are already considerably down from where they have been over his career per minute, and considerably less than they were the last time he was a full time starter. He's already sacrificing -- 11.9 is not many shots for a starter. The problem isn't Bonzi, its the general structure of the team. Asking ANY of those 5 starters to magically transform him or herself into a non-shooting roleplayer is just not going to work. Its just not who they are.

Most top teams employ a structure that has 2 or 3 starters take the shots, while the rest are roleplayers. Means Reef and whoever get their accustomed shots and nobody gets squeezed. But we don't have any true roleplayers. All 5 of our starters are accustomed to being one of those two or three guys who gets shots. Just no way we can sell any of them (MAYBE Brad, but I doubt even that) on suddenly taking 8 shots a night. Doug was kind of a special case in that he was never really a very good offensive player. He took shots and scored because he had to in Toronto, but it was never a natural role, and he struggled to shoot 40% and average 15pts being a primary option. We kind of allowed him to slide into a role more naturally suited for his game.

P.S. As an aside, Bonzi's game thus far has been somewhat different than I recall it. Last time he was a major player he was really a nasty postup guard who could get on unstoppable hot streaks from the blocks against just about anyone shorter than 6'8". For us thus far he's really been more of a scrappy power guard collecting all the garbage and battling around the rim. Game seems less structured, and less brilliant. Cannot be sure because my memory may just be selective, but it makes me wonder if he hasn't already significantly altered his game according to our needs.
 
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playmaker0017

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#26
Bricklayer said:
Bonzi's shots are already considerably down from where they have been over his career per minute, and considerably less than they were the last time he was a full time starter. He's already sacrificing -- 11.9 is not many shots for a starter.
Granted, this is true to an extent, but you've got to do what's best for the team.

5 guys putting up 10 shots a game doesn't allow ANYONE to get in a rythm.

The problem isn't Bonzi, its the general structure of the team. Asking ANY of those 5 starters to magically transform him or herself into a non-shooting roleplayer is just not going to work. Its just not who they are.
For the most part, I agree. But, the one player who should be bucking the system is the one who seems to be doing his part. That's Shareef. He's taking 11 shots a game ... and the majority of them are from sources outside of the offense.

But, I do agree - it's not just Bonzi ... it's the composition of the team.

The coach has to force them to conform though. Reef is too valuable an offensive weapon to let sit there half cocked all game.

I may be the world's biggest "Reef homer" ... but I just can't seem to make sense of the way we play. Peja and Reef should both be near 17 shots a game. Inside we have a dominating player and outside we have a dominating player. That's very tough to stop. The coach needs to sell the rest of the team on playing around these two ... if they can't do it ... they need to look at options for trades.

I just can't remember a successful offensive team where the majority of your shots were evenly distributed. No one gets into the flow and into a rythm.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#28
mcsluggo said:
Where are you going in DC?

(as he looks out his window at the gloomy sloppy wet mess that has decended on the city)
Early morning meeting at a local firm (Dickstein Shapiro) that came up over the weekend. Was in and out before 10am. :)
 

VF21

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SME
#30
playmaker0017 said:
The coach has to force them to conform though. Reef is too valuable an offensive weapon to let sit there half cocked all game.
It's not about the coach "forcing them" to do anything. It's about the team finding their OWN rhythm. They're actually making great strides in that direction, with both Reef and Miller getting 8 assists last night. That is important for the Kings' style of play.

I may be the world's biggest "Reef homer" ... but I just can't seem to make sense of the way we play. Peja and Reef should both be near 17 shots a game. Inside we have a dominating player and outside we have a dominating player. That's very tough to stop. The coach needs to sell the rest of the team on playing around these two ... if they can't do it ... they need to look at options for trades.
And again I have to wonder just how much Kings basketball you've watched over the years. Our most successful teams have been those that found ways to exploit weaknesses each and every night. That doesn't mean hard-fast rules about who will always take the most shots. It varies, and when done correctly, it is extremely successful. If you, as an opposing coach, have to worry about whether Miller - or Peja - or SAR - or Bibby - or Bonzi - needs to be double-teamed, you're going to have a lot of problems...and someone on the Kings is going to end up open. Good ball movement, intelligent play, etc. is a cornerstone of our offense and I saw some of it last night. It's not about the coach selling the rest of the team on always playing around SAR and Peja. IMHO it's about the team selling themselves on playing intelligent, inspired basketball to the best of their ability AND always looking to make the better shot, whether it means moving the ball inside to Reef or kicking it out to Peja in the corner or letting Bonzi have it in the post or moving it to Miller at the elbow for the open jumper or seeing Bibby wide open at the top of the key, etc. EACH of those options is viable for a Kings team that is playing cohesive, team basketball...

I just can't remember a successful offensive team where the majority of your shots were evenly distributed. No one gets into the flow and into a rythm.
I can...and a lot of them were games where one team had the name Sacramento Kings on their jerseys.

;)
 
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