[Grades] Grades v. Warriors 2/19/2014
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Dreadnought
Bench
I almost enjoyed bigass monuments as much as I enjoyed pretty girls. I like.
Chubbs
Starter
You vastly underestimate how good cp3 is.
Our pg is twenty five now. At the end of his 3rd season. If not now, when? He's had many chances, and growth isn't occurring other than in the scoring dept. My fear right now is that he is at his peak and we are going to pay him a ton expecting improvement, and it won't be there.
I agree that rudy is becoming a major major issue. To the point I'm thinking him opting out wouldn't be such a terrible thing. He shouldn't devolve into this whenever cuz is out. We should not be 0-9 without cousins. He's not THAT good. Every team slips without their best guy, but to the point of not being able to beat anyone anywhere? That's ridiculous.
There are a lot of red flags lately. The talent has improved, but the play is largely the same, and the results largely, have also been the same. On paper we look better, but teams with less talent are still beating us routinely.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Now that the trade period is over, it will be really interesting to see how the coaching staff and front office approach this.
I suspect that our front court rotation will be much tighter with Cousins/JT/Landry getting most of the minutes. Gay and Williams will play all of the SF minutes and Williams might play some PF minutes when we go small.
The backcourt is one big mess. They want to give McCallum and McLemore more playing time but that will likely put Jimmer at the end of the bench (not a bad thing since he is not part of the future and is an expiring contract) and Terry will want minutes as well. A real mess.
While we have upgraded the talent (thanks largely to Gay and Williams trades) since the start of the season, the roster is now even bigger bunch of misfits. You have a million PFs and a bunch of guards none of which is good enough to demand time except IT who is going to cost us an arm and a leg in the summer.
Not sure I am a fan of the work since Gay trade. Thornton for Terry/Evans was a bit of a nothing trade really.
I suspect that our front court rotation will be much tighter with Cousins/JT/Landry getting most of the minutes. Gay and Williams will play all of the SF minutes and Williams might play some PF minutes when we go small.
The backcourt is one big mess. They want to give McCallum and McLemore more playing time but that will likely put Jimmer at the end of the bench (not a bad thing since he is not part of the future and is an expiring contract) and Terry will want minutes as well. A real mess.
While we have upgraded the talent (thanks largely to Gay and Williams trades) since the start of the season, the roster is now even bigger bunch of misfits. You have a million PFs and a bunch of guards none of which is good enough to demand time except IT who is going to cost us an arm and a leg in the summer.
Not sure I am a fan of the work since Gay trade. Thornton for Terry/Evans was a bit of a nothing trade really.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
We have literally close to no assets. This deadline should once again make clear to everyone how little value our guys have around the league. Boogie is an asset, but I'm not moving him. Our pick is an asset on draft day but beyond that if Rudy walks we pretty much have nothing of value on the trade front.
No one was beating down our door for IT, or JT, or Ben, or DWill or anyone else. If Rudy opts in he becomes an extremely valuable expiring next year at the least and is our most valuable asset by far(aside from Cuz) who we might be willing to move. Lose Rudy, you've got Boogie and a bunch of crap for the most part which makes it extremely difficult to attract anyone decent to come play for us. Our entire history is Sac shows how hard it is to attract talent in this market.
Sure we'd have cap space, but we haven't done anything of note with a bunch of cap space ever, in the Sac era. Yeah we got Vlade once, but that was also right after trading for Webber and he knew his boy Peja from back home was coming over. We also had Rick, who wasn't an unproven coach like Malone is. Our situation now is nothing like back then. Using cap space to attract FA's and build a winner that way in this market is a pipe dream at this point in time. And I don't see us getting anything this summer on the FA market close to the value of a 19M Rudy expiring contract next deadline, and that's if you're in the crowd who doesn't really want him here.
Hell, I'd hope Rudy opts in just so PDA doesn't get tempted to throw a fat contract at some random ex-GS or ex-Den player as for some reason he appears infatuated with players who've laced them up for those two cities.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said with one caveat... I truly believe the Thornton deal was at least partially out of desperation. They had to get rid of him (for a variety of reasons from contract to attitude) and Terry/Evans just might have been the only option.
Things are looking pretty grim right now from a basketball perspective, but the good news is that the roster isn't in horrible shape. We have long-term commitments to only three players and one of them is in the running for best center in the game. That leaves us with a frightening number of question marks, but we're also not doomed to a half decade of salary cap driven irrelevance either. The opportunity is there for a smart front office to put together something special. If we do well with our draft pick this year and manage to turn one of Williams/McLemore/McCallum into a serviceable starter we've got the core of a winning team coming together relatively quickly. In the lotto this year there are defensive bigs, one or two promising PGs, a group of very talented young forwards -- all positions of need for us.
I think it's become even more frustrating for me this season because we're finally in a good position ownership-wise and we have a promising young coach who by all accounts understands the game. A lot of things are going right with the franchise in general. And when that new arena opens I think we're going to see a lot of enthusiasm for the team come back, regardless of how well the team is doing in the standings at the time. But how much cooler would it be if we also have a team that's earning respect around the league for their play on the court as well? I just hope our front office makes good decisions from here on out. Because while a few good decisions could put us on the fast track to national media relevance and all that comes with that, a few bad decisions could easily sink us for a long time. It's a tenuous position to be in. I don't know one way or another, but I really want to believe that we have the right people in charge to make those decisions.
I think it's become even more frustrating for me this season because we're finally in a good position ownership-wise and we have a promising young coach who by all accounts understands the game. A lot of things are going right with the franchise in general. And when that new arena opens I think we're going to see a lot of enthusiasm for the team come back, regardless of how well the team is doing in the standings at the time. But how much cooler would it be if we also have a team that's earning respect around the league for their play on the court as well? I just hope our front office makes good decisions from here on out. Because while a few good decisions could put us on the fast track to national media relevance and all that comes with that, a few bad decisions could easily sink us for a long time. It's a tenuous position to be in. I don't know one way or another, but I really want to believe that we have the right people in charge to make those decisions.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
I heard Marc Spears from Yahoo sports on with Grant Napear today and he said he thinks the Kings should look to add a pass first true PG and Napear said nothing. Funny cause Napear was spending the whole rest of the show yelling at callers who said that same thing, Or talking with Pro-Isaiah callers about how stupid everyone is who thinks the Kings need a new PG.......
Kingster
Hall of Famer
He's improved every year. He just turned 25. The prime for most NBA players begins in the 27-28 year old time frame. He's a student of the game. And he's a very hard worker. There's no reason whatsoever to believe he's topped out.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I have a few reasons but they fall on deaf ears. I specifically don't like paying luxury tax for a guy who has killed the sg position on this team.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Homicide! Call the cops! IT killed Thornton! His body hasn't been found. Maybe it's buried in the Bronx! And no doubt he's cut the tendons on McLemore's shooting hand. Maybe they will heal. Maybe not. Maybe McLemore is headed for the burial ground in a year or two. All because of IT, the EVIL-DOER!
Hadlowe
Starter
Glenn
Hall of Famer
This is why having a discussion with you is futile.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Lets be straight. Ben isn't going to do much of anything in this league, without a distributing point guard who is very interested in getting him multiple varieties of looks, throughout games.
Derrick Williams is a more effective play maker to get Ben involved, than our current starting PG is
Derrick Williams is a more effective play maker to get Ben involved, than our current starting PG is
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LPKingsFan
All-Star
I mean, is there an actual way to break down a player's numbers based on teammate? Thorton's stats were already in decline starting next to Vasquez this year, no? Were Ben's numbers better next to Vasquez? I'm sure the team has access to this data, but do we? (I see B-R has net production for the team based on player pairs, but not individual player data)
I'd prefer not to rely simply on the eye test, because sometimes we simply see what we want to see.
I'd prefer not to rely simply on the eye test, because sometimes we simply see what we want to see.
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ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
For what's it worth, unfortunately even with Vasquez, my eyes noticed that he didn't seem very interested in getting Ben multiple looks either. I recall several games where it appeared that he was ignoring him when open. This was at the point when Ben's shot was still looking good early in the season
So even if you do have the PG with the style to work, if they're "head isn't in" the 'project' or development priority, it's still difficult to get much out of it
I think Ben's lack of performance essentially falls on him. He might be able to pick it up but I get less and less convinced it can or will happen. I hope it does. Going into next season we need a starter at SG with Ben backing up with limited minutes until he turns the corner, maybe even for a couple of yrers. I don't think the PG will have much to do with it. It might be wise not to pass Ben the ball.
Chubbs
Starter
Nice, a student of the game. I like that. I'm curious what you're basing that on though.
I'm just saying, this is likely about what we'll get going forward with small improvements. Statistically, he's capped out. I can't see him having any more freedom to shoot that he has now. Anywhere in the league really. But that's the argument at this point, can he get better, can he not? What he is now, isn't worth big money. But if you think he's willing to stop shooting so much and play like a PG, he has the talent to fit in. Right now, he's just a 3rd wheel that doesn't fit. Fit matters.
I think George Karl said he just doesn't think he has the ego to be happy with a 12 assist, 6 point night in a win. He's just not wired that way. I agree with Karl.
Kings need starting PG, SG and mythical shot-blocker...oh, and have no money.
whozit
Starter
Why worry over simple details ............
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Why worry over simple details ............
You are getting worse than Spike and that is an incredible achievement.
whozit
Starter
Is that a compliment or an insult? My former bosses boss called me a PITA once but wouldn't admit it until he left. According to him, PITA stands for pain in the ass.You are getting worse than Spike and that is an incredible achievement.
(I had the audacity to ask questions, imagine that)
That was the Ma****s. Our current ownership doesn't have that particular problem. Were you referring to salary cap room?
If they re-sign IT to reasonable money, they will already be at LT footsteps and still without starting PG, SG and mythical shot-blocker. Another $4 million in salary, and so-called apron kick in, severely limiting spending even for the team that can afford it.
whozit
Starter
Isn't the apron considerably above the luxury tax floor?
Which is to say that you were in fact referring to the salary cap/luxury tax situation and not the overall financial situation of the ownership group itself.
whozit
Starter
Ouch! They say that PDA is a cap-expert, he's got his work cut out for him. Progress has got to be shown on the floor or the honeymoon period may come to an premature end. And I don't equate progress as the playoffs just being pointed in that direction.
