Grades v. Warriors 03/17

[uolj]

I was ok with it when we tried it on the roadtrip, but this begins to be a serious question -- in a playoff positioning dogfight, such as we are in now, how many can we or should we be willing to lose trying to force feed Peja? And unfortunately I think the answer there depends entirely on the very question we are trying to figure our -- whether Peja is a guy who just doesn't have "it", in which case we are just wasting our time and cheating our team of wins, or whether he does have "it" and just doesn't know it. Now obviously this Kings team would be far far better off if Peja DID have "it", and you want to find that out if at all possible. But we aren't an inexperienced team without a goto clutch player -- we already have one. And so its not the same thing as experimenting with a young player on a young team trying to figure out roles. Peja isn't that young, has had many chances over the years already, and every time we intentionally feed him in lieu of our big clutch guy it just has to leave us wondering "what if"?

At what point do you stop trying to make him into something he is not, and just move on and begin to plan according to what he is? Put another way, how many game winning shots should the Lakers entrust to Lamar Odom with Kobe on the roster?

Assuming Stojakovic is going to be a big part of this team going forward (if he isn't none of this discussion would matter), then you absolutely want him to gain the end of game confidence that has been learned by many others. The chances he has had have been few and far between, never enough to build up a confidence.

So how long do you force feed Peja these shots? You keep doing it as long as he is making at least a couple of them and as long as the games aren't important. I was fine with Bibby taking the shots last week because those victories were important to keep the Kings out of a major slump. Now, especially after Bibby has made a couple, is a great time to give Stojakovic the chance. You do it for the rest of this regular season and next (if he is still around). You do it until you are convinced that he cannot rise to the occasion or until he starts doing so. I am not yet convinced that he cannot rise to the occasion. He has several times done so, almost always after hitting a couple shots in a row which, what do you know, gave him confidence. But you do it until you know. And that doesn't mean he gets every play drawn up for him. You let Bibby take some also, and if you can you draw up a couple for Miller, too. It's just about getting the chances so that he'll gain the experience of being in that situation.

And to be honest, the Lakers should let Odom take a few potential game winning shots instead of Kobe. Even if Bryant is always around to hit the important ones, the experience of being in that position would almost certainly improve the rest of his play (assuming Odom doesn't already have that confidence at the end of the game - I don't know him well enough to judge). Sure, playoff positioning is important, but getting your players ready is even more important, and if the playoff spots you lose because of a few missed last-second shots hurts you that badly, you probably wouldn't have been good enough to do much anyway.

 

[bozzwell]

I was ok with it when we tried it on the roadtrip, but this begins to be a serious question -- in a playoff positioning dogfight, such as we are in now, how many can we or should we be willing to lose trying to force feed Peja? And unfortunately I think the answer there depends entirely on the very question we are trying to figure our -- whether Peja is a guy who just doesn't have "it", in which case we are just wasting our time and cheating our team of wins, or whether he does have "it" and just doesn't know it. Now obviously this Kings team would be far far better off if Peja DID have "it", and you want to find that out if at all possible. But we aren't an inexperienced team without a goto clutch player -- we already have one. And so its not the same thing as experimenting with a young player on a young team trying to figure out roles. Peja isn't that young, has had many chances over the years already, and every time we intentionally feed him in lieu of our big clutch guy it just has to leave us wondering "what if"?

At what point do you stop trying to make him into something he is not, and just move on and begin to plan according to what he is? Put another way, how many game winning shots should the Lakers entrust to Lamar Odom with Kobe on the roster?

I assume you're talking about force-feeding Pedja in the clutch?

The the answer to your two questions is:
When do we we accept that he might never have "it" and use him accordingly? Considering that Mike has enough "it" for two teams, the answer can only be this: Now.
When do we stop trying to get a clutch shot out of Pedja (this year): Give him one more week. That's it - IMHO.

 

[Bricklayer]

And see, that's where I think you may be putting the cart before the horse, and potentially sacrificing years of this team's future in the process.

You don't MAKE clutch shooters -- they make themselves. They have to want it. Even Webb, who learned late, came upon it with a conscious shift after the 2002 WCF -- he got hungry and WANTED to be that guy. Made all the difference. We could call a bunch of post up isolations for Peja too in an effort to "make" him a post player, but until he decides he wants to do it, its a waste of time, and it cheats both the team and the fans.

Peja is not a Siamese twin. There is absolutely no reason in the world why he HAS to be here, or if he is here, why he HAS to be this or that. If we are 100% committed to him sink or swim, the only explanation for that would be Goeff Petrie's personal affinity for him. But otherwise its very simple -- if he wants to succeed and does, keep him. If he's not interested, or scared, or whatever, keep him if you think you can afford to despite the limitations, or simply move him. Easiest thing in the world. Either way throwing away critical games trying to force feed somebody is kind of silly. He's not MJ. And if he was, we wouldn't be able to KEEP the ball out of his hands when it mattered.

There are all sorts of hungry players around the world. Sitting around endlessly fascinated with trying to transform one who is not doesn't make much sense if you're hurting the team in the process. There are other options. One of them is already on our team in fact. If we're in the lottery, sure why not? If we're in first place and up by 10 games, sure why not? But we're not. Every Peja miss right now has very real consequences to our prospects. Just not worth it for a very speculative enterprise. If Peja is ready at some point, if he abruptly gets hungry and fascinated with greatness, I think we'll know + it will show on the court. No need to blow on dead ashes.

 

[quick dog]

I don't think the Kings should give up on Peja. I remember when he didn't try to defend at all. He seems to be trying to change his MO. Regardless, I believe that his NBA future will be determined over the next six weeks. If he chokes in the playoffs again, I suspect he will become a trade option. It's really up to Peja. He has the strength, height, and motor skills to be a great player. His problem is confined to his head.

 

[bozzwell]

And see, that's where I think you may be putting the cart before the horse, and potentially sacrificing years of this team's future in the process.

You don't MAKE clutch shooters -- they make themselves. They have to want it. Even Webb, who learned late, came upon it with a conscious shift after the 2002 WCF -- he got hungry and WANTED to be that guy. Made all the difference. We could call a bunch of post up isolations for Peja too in an effort to "make" him a post player, but until he decides he wants to do it, its a waste of time, and it cheats both the team and the fans.

Peja is not a Siamese twin. There is absolutely no reason in the world why he HAS to be here, or if he is here, why he HAS to be this or that. If we are 100% committed to him sink or swim, the only explanation for that would be Goeff Petrie's personal affinity for him. But otherwise its very simple -- if he wants to succeed and does, keep him. If he's not interested, or scared, or whatever, keep him if you think you can afford to despite the limitations, or simply move him. Easiest thing in the world. Either way throwing away critical games trying to force feed somebody is kind of silly. He's not MJ. And if he was, we wouldn't be able to KEEP the ball out of his hands when it mattered.

There are all sorts of hungry players around the world. Sitting around endlessly fascinated with trying to transform one who is not doesn't make much sense if you're hurting the team in the process. There are other options. One of them is already on our team in fact. If we're in the lottery, sure why not? If we're in first place and up by 10 games, sure why not? But we're not. Every Peja miss right now has very real consequences to our prospects. Just not worth it for a very speculative enterprise. If Peja is ready at some point, if he abruptly gets hungry and fascinated with greatness, I think we'll know + it will show on the court. No need to blow on dead ashes.

You can't make clutch players, but you can test the players that you have to determine the level of "clutchness". You've got to prepare players, especially your 1-2-3 options for the game-is-on-the-line situations. For whatever reason, Pedja this year has not shown up that often. If the team is making a concious effort to get him more involved or to push him in a certain direction - more power to them. As far as I am cocnerned he is on probabation for the next 2 months for us to determined what do we really have there.

Pedja has always been number 2 or lesser option on all his teams except PAO in Greece, which was aeons ago. The only times he was No. 1 option on the Kings was out of necessity and in the best possible framework for his game to flourish (Kings offense, with Doug and Vlade). We now need to find out do we really have a great, efficient scorer and can he be called upon to perform under pressure. Again.

We do know that we do not have a versitile player in Pedja. But his talent is so rare and valuable in today's game that we can take some risks in the short term and let this thing pan out. He may be a great player for us, or he will settle into being a great shooter. I've already settled for Pedja to be just a great shooter and I don't see a point in trying to make him into anything else beyond this year. This is a transition year and it is only fair to give Pedja one more chance. After that, he will either settle in his old role or he will be traded. There will be plenty of takers.