Grades v. Rockets 01/13

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Artest ( A ) -- and so offensive Ron made another appearance tonight, and with a little luck ALMOST let us pull off what is now considered an upset. I'm not sure the Rockets have finished with a better record than the Kings since the Clinton presidency, but times are a changin'. Started the game off smooth on offense, playing the complemetary role to the unstoppable inside dominance of All Star Corl...er...anyway, solid offensive first half. Hit an early three where the ball missed badly and shot straight up in the air 10 feet before swishing through -- drew a smile, and was not his only lucky three on the night. And TMac was mostly under control. Not shut down, but under control. Things then got worse for Ron before getting better. Much worse. In the third Ron largely disappeared offensively, and TMac just went nuts and treated Ron like he was Mike Bibby. Hit shots over him, right in his face, just ignored him. Reminscient of the LeBron game and Ron's game was plummeting. But like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get with Ron (actually why I prefer a bag of Peanut M+M's -- no nasty orange cremes...but I digress). And so down the stretch of the game, as the Corliss machine finally began to tire and it looked like we were fading away to another ignomious defeat, it was Ron who stepped forward to rescue us. For the moment at least. Scored a big continuation with 2:45 to go to put the pressure on the Rockets and with us down three after scrapping to get a final chance, Ron hit his second lucky three pointer of the game for the tie and OT -- a clunked that banked in, and it was NOT called. Kept on in OT, and if we could have just convinced Mike to quit trying to play hero, who knows, maybe we pull this off. As it was, we fall short, and I could have goen A- here. Ron poured in 34 as one of our twin engines tongiht, but it was a pretty one dimensional effort -- he gave up on that rebounding stuffa month ago at least, wasn't terribly interested in setting up anyone but himself, and got outscored by his opposite number (TMac) who just wasn't going to be denied tonight. What drew the grade back up to a solid A was the timing -- like Corliss who stepped up so huge trying to break this death spiral we are in, Ron came to play when it mattered. And did it right through and over a great defender in Battier too. He played with heart and determination. That's worth half a grade right there.
Reef ( C+ ) -- played well in the first quarter with 8 pts 3rebs against Juwann Howard...who had 10 and 2 back the other way against him. And then began a remarkable streak. Played the bulk of the game tonight before finally fouling out, and chipped in a few more hoops in the 4th for a very efficient 6-7 night (well efficeint unless you count his numerous turnovers as we tried to feed him). But for the final 36 minutes of regulation and into OT, Reef was often paired with super-Corliss, which shifted him over to center to match up with the looming old man (Deke). And while Dikembe was continuing his fountain of youth bit, grabbing 18 rebounds on the night, Shareef managed to grab exactly...zero. After that first quarter at PF. Zero. Zilch. Zippo. But the poor rebounding is now a permanent feature of his game, especially when wildy overmatched physically at center. And at least he contributed tonight with his scoring. It was a complimentary effort, but it was something.
Taylor ( D+ ) -- and so it was old washed up 90's tweener forward night at Arco, and Mo Taylor got dusted off to start alongside Reef against a Juwann Howard/Dikembe Mutumbo frontline (ok Deke was a 90s center, but still...). Wildy overmatched and did very little except pickup fouls in record time, leading to the great majority of the game being played by another old formerly washed up 90's PF -- Corliss. We benefitted immensely in the exchange. Nothing awful here. Just not much of anything at all. Gave him a + just for the heck of it because I'm a nice guy, and of course because him politiely getting into foul trouble opened the door for Corliss. Nice er...work Mo!
Martin ( C+ ) -- got off to a good start, hit an outside shot, an inside shot, then jumped into Mutumbo for the offensive...er..I mean, drew the foul. ;) But then largely disappeared, and was rarely heard from for the rest of the game really. The Rockets were paying more attention of course. But it was more than that -- the guys that Kevin was being guarded by were neither known as great defenders nor had the size to smother him. And you have to hope there is not a "guard him with a PG who can smother him off the ball" Peja thing going on here. Just disappeared. Only took a couple more shots, there were no open court opportunities, no Brad to look for him of of the cuts (I think Brad is actually a significant help to Kevin's game) and Kevin kept on doing that strange wide open pseudo pump fake and pass thing of his, where he's got the shot, but just does not seem to want it and instead fakes the shot and dumps it to soembody else. If its an open look, just shoot it young man! In any case, like Reef, efficient at least. But like Reef, no impact and just a complimentary game.
Bibby ( D- ) -- Oh my. What the hell happened to Mike these last two games? After finally seeming to come out of his season long slump to start the month, we have a big team meeting/brawl, a "good practice" and...did they kill Mike and replace him with a pod person? He completely slept walked through the entire first half and was misfiring on everthing early. At the end of half had all of 1pt as Corliss and Ron were doing all the lifting. Woke up in the third, and helped us weather the TMac storm with maybe 9-10 points in the quarter, and hence avoids the F. Because then not only did he return to the struggle,but his awful shotmaking (er...shotmissing) and decisionmaking down the stretch played a major part in this loss. Tried to hit a number of hero threes, and was not even close. Continued missing big shots we needed right into OT, and with Ron (11-18) Corliss (11-19) Reef (6-7) and Kevin (4-7) all around, there was just no excuse for it. One of those games where the very things that makes him so dangerous in so many clutch situation jumped up to bite us in the *** -- confidence to a fault, and the desire to hit that dagger shot. Except that he missed them. Repeatedly. And just kept settling for long contested threes, 3-14 on the ngiht, and 0-9 on 3s. That's just not smart. And so a bad effort in our loss.
Corliss ( A+ ) -- See? No moves needed with this team. We already have our 30-10 PF on the roster. :rolleyes: This was...well, remarkable. Corliss Williamson, he of the 8pts 3rebs came in and...well, think we need to review the rules of Piksi's Tony Delk Memorial award, because Corliss was that man no matter which team he was on. He dominated out there. Came in off the bench and was far and away our best player for 3 1/2 quarters. Scored inside and out, made good passes, rebounded, basically carried us while he was in. Got back in early in the 2nd half after Mo Taylor got in early foul trouble (which really helped us) and kept right on trucking. And was all over the floor, diving for balls, hitting the floor, taking charges. Such an amusing freak game. One King at least tonight showed he still has heart. Kudos to Corliss. The problems being that a) we still lost despite 30 and 12 out of nowhere. And b) there's no way he can duplicate that effort, so its nothing to really build off of. Still, our dependable vet came in and just left it on the floor trying to save us. You could make a decent argument for removing that "+" -- Corliss faded late after carrying us so far, and in the end we lost. But this was just such an unexpected feel good effort and must have been one of the finest efforts of the latter half of his career. Actually, probably one of the finest at any point of his career. So throwing the "+" on doesn't bother me in the least.
Salmons ( B- ) -- an ok "was he out there" type of support game for John, when his biggest problem was that Muss kept on subbing him in for our bigs so that his arrival signalled instant smallballing. In the first half came into the game and immediately fouled TMac, but settled in and was a decent participant. The Rockets wouldn't let him finish his drives, so he did a solid job passing the ball around and getting it to the hot hands. There was a little good, little bad after returning in the 2nd half. But while he was quiet for most of the night offensively, he stepped up to hit the go ahead three down the stretch of regulation. Not the shot you normally want him taking, but he was wide open, and it was a shot he had to take and hit, and he did.
Douby ( D ) -- invisible first quarter stint that somehow earned him a 2nd stint to open the 4th quarter of a tight game where he was equally invisible. Wasn't even sure how to grade him because there was nothing to grade. So just went with the D for the statline: 11min 1pt 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk and zero contribution. Just a body tonight.
Thomas ( C ) -- Oh my, somebody started a "how long until Ron blows up" thread, but they were targetting the wrong animal. Ron got his shots and got to play the Kobe role on offense, he may be ok sleeping tonight. KT however was damn near out of the rotation tonight with Corliss going off. Did not look completely awful in his short first half stint other than forcing up a dumb shot. At least grabbed a few boards. But then that was it, and he never returned, and I have a very hard time seeing how that's going to fly in KT land.
Williams ( INC ) -- OMG -- it was like watching Bill Russel meets Kareem meets the Worm! Skying for rebounds, flying around the court, dominating the paint! Truly, the most amazing 47 seconds you were ever going to see. ;) Er...anyway, a Justin Williams sighting. Got all of 47 seconds to close the first half and that was that. To be fair, we tried to get him closer to 90 seconds, but he just didn't get to the table in time. But oh man was it special.

Muss ( B ) -- So loss #5 in a row, our third straight loss at home in OT (almost surely a record no?), and a losing record at home. And yet...it wasn't that bad. Really. Kind of tells you what type of year its been. But...we played hard. Ron and especially Corliss really left it on the floor and played with heart. At this point the loss is almost a given. But it was like the Kings were reading this board and my suggestion a day or two ago that what we needed to do was imitate the Lakers game, play hard, and then lose every game in OT. And we did. Me for coach! ;) In any case, lacking true bigs of note, tonight was a night for our "thicks". Mo Taylor started, and Ron and Corliss dominated the offensive action all game long.
And Muss...well, he was maybe better too. Although as always there are questions. Primary among them would be this simple observation: THIRD QUARTER!?! Setting aside that season long observation, you could briefly sum up Muss's night as: Started Mo. Found Corliss. Rode Ron. Bibby still getting ball late? Good out of bounds play for Reef. Salmons in for Reef when he fouls out? Plays for Kevin? KT out of rotation. Intentional fouls. Not morose. Yay. Boo. Darn. 3pts from being 17-17 and right there for the #8 spot (er...yay?). And yet...the bizarre subtext to the losing being that we have now sunk to the 9th worst team in the league record wise. #9 pick and falling fast. And that's a...yay? Er...anyway, assuming that Muss was not calling those Bibby shots, a decent night. Actually...come to think about it we have urged Muss to call for Bibby shots late recently, so even there its gray. Sigh. Oh well. Like I said, this season we've seen worse efforts.
 
Last edited:
#8
Very good points about Muss, Brick. It's incredible how many really good and really bad moves he'll make in one night.

While Ron played really hard in the fourt quarter, he also got absolutely abused by McGrady. McGrady really just wasn't even bothered. Artest needed to be up on McGrady to make him put it on the floor, but instead he sagged off enough that McGrady just nailed jump shots all night.

I may sound like a broken record, but Ron just isn't an elite defender anymore. I'm still not sure if it's in his head or if he lost a step -- I was at this game and to my eye he looked a step slower, but again, that might just be in his effort. But you can add McGrady to the list of players who weren't bothered at all by Artest.
 
#9
Very good points about Muss, Brick. It's incredible how many really good and really bad moves he'll make in one night.

While Ron played really hard in the fourt quarter, he also got absolutely abused by McGrady. McGrady really just wasn't even bothered. Artest needed to be up on McGrady to make him put it on the floor, but instead he sagged off enough that McGrady just nailed jump shots all night.

I may sound like a broken record, but Ron just isn't an elite defender anymore. I'm still not sure if it's in his head or if he lost a step -- I was at this game and to my eye he looked a step slower, but again, that might just be in his effort. But you can add McGrady to the list of players who weren't bothered at all by Artest.
if hes not an elite defender then who is... i dont really see any "great" one-on-one defenders out there... bowens pretty good but he focuses mainly on defense and role-playing and hes also dirty and a constant fouler. and not to mention i still think artest is way better than bowen on defense and ben wallace is great but hes more of a weak-side help defender blocking shots, controlling the paint when guards get penetrated on and ofcourse his rebounding(which also sometimes boggles the mind how he doesnt reach 10 rebounds in some games;) )
 
#10
if hes not an elite defender then who is... i dont really see any "great" one-on-one defenders out there... bowens pretty good but he focuses mainly on defense and role-playing and hes also dirty and a constant fouler. and not to mention i still think artest is way better than bowen on defense and ben wallace is great but hes more of a weak-side help defender blocking shots, controlling the paint when guards get penetrated on and ofcourse his rebounding(which also sometimes boggles the mind how he doesnt reach 10 rebounds in some games;) )
Kobe, Bowen (although he's fallen off some), Quinton Ross, Trenton Hassel, Iguodala...

I mean, partly it's a semantics issue depending on what you consider "elite." Clearly Artest is still one of the better defenders in the league and the best defender on the Kings. I think the point I'm more trying to make is that he's not as good this year as in years past. Even last season he looked more potent. He's still good, but it's worrisome that he seems to have fallen off some.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#11
Kobe, Bowen (although he's fallen off some), Quinton Ross, Trenton Hassel, Iguodala...

I mean, partly it's a semantics issue depending on what you consider "elite." Clearly Artest is still one of the better defenders in the league and the best defender on the Kings. I think the point I'm more trying to make is that he's not as good this year as in years past. Even last season he looked more potent. He's still good, but it's worrisome that he seems to have fallen off some.

how is kobe an elite defender? besides the fact that he cant guard himself? he doesnt shutdown any of the elite scorers.... lebron, wade, tmac, arenas and so on all get their points against kobe.... arenas scored 60 on him at home..... elite my @ss....
 
#12
how is kobe an elite defender? besides the fact that he cant guard himself? he doesnt shutdown any of the elite scorers.... lebron, wade, tmac, arenas and so on all get their points against kobe.... arenas scored 60 on him at home..... elite my @ss....
I didn't watch that game, but I wasn't under the impression that Kobe was guarding Gil during that game. In any event, that's a mismatch because of the size/quickness difference. He bothers LeBron and a lot of other opposing players as well as anyone. He's one of the better defenders in the league. I absolutely loathe the guy, but he's a very good defenders.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#13
like when? i live in la and i never see him doing much of anything against other elite sg's.... he cant guard wade to save his life.... and if he were an elite defender he should have been guarding gilbert.... smush is horrible.... and caron lit the lakers up in that game.... so who was kobe guarding that got shutdown?
 
#14
Very good points about Muss, Brick. It's incredible how many really good and really bad moves he'll make in one night.

While Ron played really hard in the fourt quarter, he also got absolutely abused by McGrady. McGrady really just wasn't even bothered. Artest needed to be up on McGrady to make him put it on the floor, but instead he sagged off enough that McGrady just nailed jump shots all night.

I may sound like a broken record, but Ron just isn't an elite defender anymore. I'm still not sure if it's in his head or if he lost a step -- I was at this game and to my eye he looked a step slower, but again, that might just be in his effort. But you can add McGrady to the list of players who weren't bothered at all by Artest.

TMac shot 12/31 last night. Honestly thopugh I think Ron sags off because he knows he has no help in the paint.
 
#15
like when? i live in la and i never see him doing much of anything against other elite sg's.... he cant guard wade to save his life.... and if he were an elite defender he should have been guarding gilbert.... smush is horrible.... and caron lit the lakers up in that game.... so who was kobe guarding that got shutdown?
If Kobe is so horrible on defense, why has he been named to the All-Defense team six times? Seriously, you don't have to live in LA to watch games and see the impact he has on defense. I'm not trying to say he's the best or even that historically he's been better than Artest, but the guy is an extremely good defender.

And bmiller52, that's a good point about McGrady not having a great shooting night. I guess I'm going off of the way it looked -- McGrady did miss shots, it just never looked to me like Artest was really the reason or that Artest was really bothering him.
 
#16
TMac has the most range on his jumper in the league. At that hurricane Katrina relief game(think it was called that) like 2 years back he swished 2 or 3 50 footers at the end of the game. Ron limited him to less than 40% shooting, that's really all you can ask and unfortunately for us TMac was able to get to the line and hit shots when it counted. Ron has to play off of guys a little bit though because he has no help in the paint if a guy gets past him.
 
#17
TMac has the most range on his jumper in the league. At that hurricane Katrina relief game(think it was called that) like 2 years back he swished 2 or 3 50 footers at the end of the game. Ron limited him to less than 40% shooting, that's really all you can ask and unfortunately for us TMac was able to get to the line and hit shots when it counted. Ron has to play off of guys a little bit though because he has no help in the paint if a guy gets past him.
I partially agree, and the lack of a frontline behind him might be in Ron's head, but Ron has to know that McGrady is much less inclined than he used to be to put the ball on the floor and go to the rim, especially with Corliss hustling for charges on defense. McGrady just doesn't like the contact that comes from attacking the rim anymore. A lot of his misses came off of his midrange game, so you have to force McGrady to put the ball on the floor -- although, to be fair to Ron, McGrady was also racking up the assists after making the defense collapse on him.

And maybe all of this is coaching -- if Ron was being told to sag off McGrady and live with the jump shot then I'd blame the coaching staff and not Ron. My strategy would have been to force McGrady put the ball on the floor and work for his points.
 
#18
Kobe, Bowen (although he's fallen off some), Quinton Ross, Trenton Hassel, Iguodala...

I mean, partly it's a semantics issue depending on what you consider "elite." Clearly Artest is still one of the better defenders in the league and the best defender on the Kings. I think the point I'm more trying to make is that he's not as good this year as in years past. Even last season he looked more potent. He's still good, but it's worrisome that he seems to have fallen off some.
those guys are not even in artests defensive level, not one bit
 
#19
Kobe, Bowen (although he's fallen off some), Quinton Ross, Trenton Hassel, Iguodala...
Another guy you could add to that list would be Jason Kidd, who is still the best (and possibly only) shut-down defender at the point gaurd position. He also consistently chases around and stops 2 gaurds as well. Unfortunately, I'm not really sure people often give him the credit he deserves (although he did make All NBA first team defense last year...again)
 
#20
like when? i live in la and i never see him doing much of anything against other elite sg's.... he cant guard wade to save his life.... and if he were an elite defender he should have been guarding gilbert.... smush is horrible.... and caron lit the lakers up in that game.... so who was kobe guarding that got shutdown?
Actually, I think nbrans is right in this case. Kobe may not be a defensive stopper at the level of a Bowen or an Artest even, but he is still widely considered one of the better man to man defenders in the NBA. It is pretty much what separates him from the Mcgradys, Carters, and Pierces of the league who simply play on one side of the ball. Saying that Wade or Gilbert scored on him isn't indicative of anything as those guys routinely torch the best of defenders. But just look at Kobe's effort and activity on the defensive end compared to most other elite scorers, and his defensive talent will become apparent.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#21
Kobe's defense has been overrated for several years now. Clearly not what it once was, and I think lost a bit int eh effort to become a superscorer, Rare indeed (almost unique to one guy actually) is the ability to bring it on a best in the league level on both sides of the ball at once.

In any case, Ron exists on a level above those players, when he wants to, is focused, settled. There are good defenders, and defenders capable of disrupting their man, and then there are defenders capable of disrupting entire game plans. Ron is one of the latter. I just don't know how often we are going to see that with this messed up team and Ron's head in 1000 places other than the defensive end of the court.
 
#22
Bricklayer said:
I'm not sure the Rockets have finished with a better record than the Kings since the Clinton presidency
Two years ago my friend. Which brings me to a question. Did the Kings do a mini-tank job that year to get the 6th slot so they could hit Seattle? (we had identical records with a handful of games left) Just curious because everyone in houston wanted us to tank and slip a spot so we'd avoid Dallas in the first round and Phoenix in the second.

But other than that, everything else you said was spot on. I think the Kings should have won this one. 30 point games from Corliss and Artest should always be enough to beat someone.

As for Artest's defense during this game, there wasn't anything he could do at times. T-Mac's jumpshot is pretty much impossible to block because he shoots at the highest point of elevation. Look at the replays, there are times where Artest is standing with his hands up and T-Mac just jumps over him and shoots. T-Mac is just a very streaky player and in this game, he was on so there wasn't too much you could do. You could force him to put it on the floor but then you'd have defenders trying to help and T-Mac would just kick out to Battier or Head in the corners. (both of which shoot above 40% from the 3 point line)

And Bowen... that guy is just dirty. Good defender but he's not on the level of Artest. I remember someone (T-Mac? Ray Allen?) showed his arms after a game and there were riddled with scratches from Bowen who basically clawed them all game. Not to mention those little ankle breaking tripping plays he seems to pull on everyone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.