[Grades] Grades v. Pacers 11/30/2012

Its MY ball!! Selfish gunner of the night award goes to?

  • Marcus Thornton

    Votes: 19 76.0%
  • Aaron Brooks

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Jimmer Fredette

    Votes: 4 16.0%
  • John Salmons

    Votes: 1 4.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And so the beat goes on.

How did we lose this one, let me count the ways:

-- JT simply does not show up, in any aspect
-- Cousins finds a good thing, that he can drive on Hibbert, and stupidly does it again and again and again, even wehn Hibbert backs off him 6 feet and gives him the open jumper, even when Hibbert isn't even on the floor, Mahimi is
-- Marcus alternates between not being able to get any shots, and making sure he took one whenever he got it
-- Brooks insists on constantly helping off of Hill even with Hill being the Pacers other big gun of the night
-- Salmons and Marcus take turns 1 on 1 heroing it late
-- rotations are a hot mess again
-- Jimmer gets killed on defense in 4th
-- nobody, not JT, certainly not TRob, and not even Hayes, is able to slow David West
-- our best guy is sitting over there in street clothes, and so we rely on short bursts from our 11th man, 12th man, and worst starter to keep ourselves alive.

We could have won this I suppose, but it wasn't pretty to watch, and it won't be pretty to grade.

Boxscore


Stats: 28min 9pts (2-4, 0-2, 5-6) 5reb 3ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Salmons ( B- ) -- did very little early, except one nice drive and dish to TRob for his lone first half dunk. Did actually grab several first half rebounds however, which already put him ahead of last game. Out of halftime immediately went to a 1 on 1 pullup that dropped in -- was that called by the coaches? Our big halftime start the third quarter play was to draw up a 1 on 1 midrange jumepr for John Salmons? Dunno. And hey, maybe it was a good idea as all of a sudden John became like evrey other King with a green light and started fancying himself a goto guy, and actually produced a little surge of points for us. Even hustled for a board in the late third, beating Green to it (not the greatest feat, but when Salmosn grabs a board, you notice, and he seemed to be making a concerted effort this time, perhaps after some comments in the film room about his last game). Lost most of his late minutes to Johnson, as our rotations were no better than ever. Gets the extra half tick here for George never doing anything against us, although you'd be hardpressed to point to the bits of that were directly attributable to John.

Stats: 22min 3pts (1-3, 0-0, 1-1) 3reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Thompson ( F ) -- and so great, the closest thing we've had to a consistent player suddenly goes weak sister on us in back to back winnable games. Hey Jason! When opposing power forwards put up 54pts 35rebs against you in back to back games, you aren't doing your job. At all. Had about 4 minutes of good play to start the game, starting wiht a solid post move/fadeaway jumper and got the +1 on it, and showing good reactions on the help block on the other end. Unfortunately got into quick foul trouble and I don't know whether oh noes having 2 fouls was jsut too much for his mental toughness or what, but he just got destroyed from that point on. Did not rebound at all. Again. Got absolutely worked over by West in the post and out retunring late in the half. Was so bad that we went to TRob and then Hayes late rather than throw Jaosn back out to be slaughtered some more. No explanation for this.

Stats: 32min 19pts (5-17, 0-0, 9-10) 16reb 1ast 2stl 0blk 2TO
Cousins ( C+ ) -- you know, there was actually a good game trapped in here trying to get out, but Boogie was just too dumb to make it happen. The strategy was clear from the beginning, as ratehr than bang around in the middle with these big centers, Boogie was pulled up high the entire game drifting around on pick action looking for long jumpers, and then in what should have been a great development discovering that he could flat outmobile Hibbert and taking him off the dribble to the hoop. Unfortunately that discovery seemed to detroy his own mental approach, as he first tried just slamming inside into Hibbert's chest at full speed looking for fouls, eventually figured it out with some very physical drives at slight angles to get to the line, and then for the rest of the game virtually refused to do anything else, no matter how the defense was playing him, or whatehr Hibbert was in or out. Holy one dimensionality Batman. And for no reason either -- Hibbert could not guard him and he could have mixed open jumpers and surprise drives all ngiht long to a huge night. Instead it got fugly and inefficient again, and one more time purely a head on up problem. On the more positive side, played very phsycially inside, and got back into a very tough rebounding mode, blocking out fiercely and dominating Hibbert, who just signed a max contract this summer and is making Indiana regret it. On one great play pulled down a strong rebound, dribbled it out of the paing, and then hit Thornton with a great pass ahead on the break layup. But just as he was starting to dominate the game, his self-enforced one simensionality rose up to bite us again, as the Pacers swapped in Ian Mahimi for Hibbert -- getting more mobile at center -- at Demarcus didn't react to it, continuing to try to force drives past him even though he no longer had the huge quickness edge. Result were some fugly forces that as they often do, triggered the Pacers the other way, and Boogie went to the bench. When he finally came back into the game at the 6 minute mark he scored on on a tough physical post attempt and there was hope he was going to close strong. But als Hibbert came back and Boogie went right back to forcing drive attempt after drive attempt into the teeth of a defense sagging 5 feet off him and waiting for it, passing up numerous wide open 18 foot jumpers in the process. I do not exaggerate when I say this could potentially have been a 30pt night in the hands of a brighter Boogie taking what was given. However, be that as it may, it was still a thudding night and a big one on the glass. It just should have been so much better.

Stats: 33min 15pts (5-11, 2-6, 3-3) 3reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
Thornton ( C- ) -- now Reke has been our best player for several weeks now, but still, after the announcement he was out you had to feel that at the very least we had a pretty capable backup to bring in as Marcus has averaged 19.5ppg as a starter throughout his career. Maybe it would even jar him out of his slump. Well as it turned out, maybe not. Started off promisingly showing quick hands to immediately deflect a George pass to create a turnover for us. But in an example of teamwide dysfunction as much as Marcus's he got the start, and ended up getting off a single shot the entire first quarter, missing it, and getting stripped from behind near the end of the quarter to start an Indy break for good measure. Finally got his first hoop with a three pointer with a minute to go in the half. In the third he and Brooks finally started to work with each other a little, setting each other up for back to back threes andputting up most of their numebrs in that quarter. But there were heavy doses of the dumb and the selfish hanigng over this one for Marcus. After a good drive in the mid 3rd to retie it, he promptly got overexited and othrew up a 1 on 1 airball. Later he just simply dropped the ball trying to handle it up top, and the Pacers went the other way again. Got to experience thepatented Smart freeze out in reverse as once again the starters sat and sat, and never a real factor late after returning. Really forcing shots and FTs in the final minute but got just enough points out of it to keep us breathing. And then after making a bad mistake the refs missed, appearing to foul Hill before the ball was even inbounded with 11 seconds to go, he and we got bailed out when Hill missed one of the FTs, opening the door for a game tying attempt. Agian though we loaded the court with shooters, and then did absolutely nothing wiht them, not passing the ball and just ending up wiht an off balance 24 foot Marcus chuck that did not fall, and that was the game. Could have gto the same shot if we had put out a Chuck Hayes, James Johnson, Thomas Robinson, Travis Outlaw lineup. hard to call this even an average game for Marcus, as he looked out of sorts, starved of shots by the teamwide greenlight and antsy and selfish when he got the ball because of it, and just as far from the impact game we needed in place of Reke as you could get.

Stats: 30min 9pts (4-8, 1-2, 0-0) 2reb 1ast 1stl 0blk 3TO
Brooks ( D ) -- the stats will say that if nothing else he shot 50% again, but this was an ineffective performance offensively, and something worse defensively. Without Reke out there to run the offense while he played off the ball, struggled to get us into things as the lone ballhandler/passer -- he and MT did not work as backups together, and did not work any better as starters together. Had a few quick little bursts getting to spots on the floor with no effect early, but also was repeatedly stripped from behind as he appeared to beat guys and did not count on them catching back up form behind. Finally got his first hoop of the hald with a little quick dirbble pullup with 1:30 to go. Real issuies were on the other side, where he simply played terrible defense on george Hill all night long. Got shot over for the buzzer beating three to end the half, but on that one at least he was in the area. but time and time and time again he simply refused to stay glued to his man, getting scraped off on picks or constantly half diving back on post players leaving Hill out there for open shot after open shot. If your man is Jamal Tinsley as it was the other night, ok, you can justify it. But when you man is one fo the two guys winning the game for the opponent and you jsut refuse to guard him the entire game...your grade plummets. Bad decisionamking throughout, but for a stretch int he third he and Marcus began to play off of each other a little. Not sure which of them got selfish first to break the kumbaya moment, but it didn't last. Came up with drive the 2 minute mark to the lead back to 4, but it was isolated.
 
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Bench

Stats: 25min 7pts (2-8, 0-0, 3-4) 7reb 2ast 0stl 3blk 3TO
Robinson ( C ) -- a colorful effort shall we say, featuring a little something of everything. Had his expected struggles against David West, but given how badly everyone was getting his butt kicked, did not particularly stand out other than in how har dhe was having to work to muscle up with him. Started off the game not getting anything done the other way either, fumbling a pass, missing a long jumper. Just looking very much the rook. But got a little something going when he inspired both himself and the crowd by chasing down Hansbrough from behind for a block on the break. Started using his athelticsm better, and repeated the open court saving block again later in the game. Really struggled to finish or handle the other way but scored on a wild drive from the side in the early 4th, and snacthed a couple of good rebounds as the game went along. With Jason just pathetic tonight, got to stay in deep into the stretch run -- at least we got effort -- until West's postups first beat him at the 2:30 mark, and then broke our defense as we ran to help the next time. I really don't know what to do with this grade.

Stats: 16min 2pts (1-3, 0-0, 0-0) 2reb 3ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
Hayes ( C- ) -- was making some subtle contributions with a few little picks and passes leading to Kings hoops in the early second. But no rebs again, as he and JT have hurt us by going on simultaneous rebounding strike in the last week, and notably had another game where he didn't get it done on defense either. We lost two winnable games vs. Min and Ind largely because our PFs absolutely got their asses handed to them both on defense and the glass, and in neither of them was Chuck able to be anything more than grist for the mill. Provided good screens to set Jimmer up for good scores to close both the 1st and 3rd quarter. Still can't give him much of a grade when he's out there for defense and rebounding, and is not effective at either.

Stats: 18min 12pts (5-10, 1-3, 1-1) 0reb 3ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Fredette ( B+ ) -- we got too little out of main pieces tonight, so it was up to out end of the bench guys to give us little pushes to keep us alive. Jimmer was the first to do this in the late first/early 2nd. Forced a selfish drive attempt to start, but next time down recorded our very first assist near the end of the first quarter with a dropoff pass to Hayes. Was able to score over Augustin, not a defender on hsi best days, easily. Had a nice spin move and finish +1 vs. the little guy, and dribbled around off a Hayes screen for a three to close the first quarter -- somethign he did twice in the game as he scloed the 3rd with a score on a drive off another Hayes pick. Only one ballnhandling misadventure getting swarmed in the open court and turning it over, but able to use little scrapoes and pikcs to repeateldly get into the lane and throw up little floaters. had problems finishing them however. best move was a nifty little fake pass on a drive in the early 4th, sending the defenders all one way while he walked on in. Given our team's passing I have no idea why any team would ever bite on a fake pass from one of us, but there it was. Began to look small and defensively problematic in the 4th, when despite slipping into a zone to hide our weaknesses, Jimmer seemed to constantly being caught on the ball and watching guys fly by. The "+" felt a littel excessvie to me, but it was a good performance, and as mentioend wihtout he and Cisco coming from nowhere to give us those little shots in the arm, this one was not close.

Stats: 20min 94ts (2-4, 0-0, 0-0) 4reb 1ast 2stl 0blk 0TO
Johnson ( B- ) -- brought some defensive hustle in the second, and restrained himself to fastbreaks and one drive to the hoop, staying efficient in the process. Got a lot of time in the 4th and caused some useful defensive havoc during those minutes, which he looked fine during, although I just shook my head at Smart when out of a timeout we run an iso for Johnson in a tight game in the 4th. He had 2pts at the time. Pulled up for his worst shot of the night -- a tough pullup jumper -- just before leaving. And drained it of course. A rare help a little/do little harm game for JJ this year. Largely did not disrupt us. Didn't do much to disrupt the Pacers either, but brought pretty good D. Looked like a decent effort from a limited player.

Stats: 15min 12pts (5-7, 2-4, 0-0) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Garcia ( A- ) -- first time we've seen him in forever, and he stepped right up and gave us a real lift, finally hitting those shots he was missing in the early season, and actually for the last several seasons truth be told. Hit a midrange jumper on a little pick play with Hayes, hit another jumper, added a three. Even turned the corner on George and took it all the way to the rim as the Pacers were wodnering who is this guy? Maybe literally since its been so long since he's been on court he's proabbly not in any of the scouting reports. Hit one more three in the mid 4th to briefly break Indiana momentum, and went to the bench with a tidy 12pts on 5-7 shooting as a completely unexpected bonus. Don't even want to think about what that may suddenly mean for Smart's "rotations".

Stats: 0min 0pts (0-0, 0-0, 0-0) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Thomas ( INC ) -- after giving us a burst in the second half last time out, this time out suddenly is the 12th man again and only gets in for the final 2 seconds after Brooks fouls out. How is it that no stories have filtered out of players giving Smart the beatdown yet? And here last year they were BFFs.
 
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Another game thrown away by bad lineups in.the 4th. Starters were put.back In too late and couldnt quite get out of the hole
 
There's a couple reasons why Cousins is shooting a terrible percentage:

1. He has no go to move.

2. The lack of offensive organization is leading him to take ill advised shots.

3. He lost weight but didn't put on any muscle. He's getting bullied and when near the basket, his lower body is really weak. He really needs to get stronger.
 
It's kind of funny, because I remember rooting for this team a few years ago. Back then, when we lost a game like this, I remember thinking "Well, at least our young guys played well and got some experience." Now, I think, "what the hell is wrong with this team." Yes, we're still a young team, but we're not so young that we should be giving games away. Fundamentally, there is something wrong here that we need to remedy, and I'm not sure what it is. Let's face it, we weren't going to be a good team, but I honestly didn't think we'd be this bad.
 
It's kind of funny, because I remember rooting for this team a few years ago. Back then, when we lost a game like this, I remember thinking "Well, at least our young guys played well and got some experience." Now, I think, "what the hell is wrong with this team." Yes, we're still a young team, but we're not so young that we should be giving games away. Fundamentally, there is something wrong here that we need to remedy, and I'm not sure what it is. Let's face it, we weren't going to be a good team, but I honestly didn't think we'd be this bad.

Ditto.

Totally OT, how much snow has Mt. Shasta gotten so far?
 
MT had Jimmer open, and he got defensive when asked why he didn't find him on the last play. First sign of a lie. Selfish. Selfish. Selfish.
 
There's a couple reasons why Cousins is shooting a terrible percentage:

1. He has no go to move.

2. The lack of offensive organization is leading him to take ill advised shots.

3. He lost weight but didn't put on any muscle. He's getting bullied and when near the basket, his lower body is really weak. He really needs to get stronger.

Hadn't thought about the last point - interesting. One thing that is obvious is that we need to start getting cousins involved in more off-the-ball plays. Most big men get half of their shots of cuts/alley-oops/or guard penetration & pass plays. Cousins is one of the few big men with good moves when facing the basket and can create his own shot, but it's hard when 80% of his points come from making a double move 12 feet out. The defense gets used to guarding him and he ends up throwing it away. Same goes for 50% of Tyreke's shots.
 
I wouldn't exactly say Jimmer was "open" at the end.

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Ok maybe he gives him the ball earlier but then you're just trading one contested three for another. The real problem is we didn't get anyone a good look from an inbounds play.
 
God this jimmer love has got to stop. Its obnoxious. He hurt more then he helped the team tonight. With his bad defense and ball hogging. If you cant see that, you either didnt watch the game, or your one of the fans that only joined the kings because jimmer was drafted
 
It didn't stick out to me that Jimmer was "ball hogging" to be honest. I thought others were far more guilty of that.

there were 2 extremely bad defensive plays by Jimmer in the 4th where he left his man for a layup and where he got blown by but they missed the shot. I'd have to watch again but blaming everything on Jimmer is about as dumb as saying he can win us games single handedly.
 
MT had Jimmer open, and he got defensive when asked why he didn't find him on the last play. First sign of a lie. Selfish. Selfish. Selfish.

This is Marcus Thornton we are talking about ... The whole world knew he was going to get the shot and he wasn't going to pass it up. Sometimes you need a player like that ... sometimes.

Hey, your man Jimmer is playing well! I'm still not sold on us playing .500 ball with him getting more minutes or err him being an all star in 4 years and all that, but he's showing that he will probably end up as a good player in this league. I am happy with that, was very happy when we drafted him because I thought he'd make a good backcourt mate for Tyreke.
 
God this jimmer love has got to stop. Its obnoxious. He hurt more then he helped the team tonight. With his bad defense and ball hogging. If you cant see that, you either didnt watch the game, or your one of the fans that only joined the kings because jimmer was drafted

Nah I disagree. Jimmer played pretty well ... his defense wasn't THAT bad. Also don't really think he hogged the ball, at least when he did he scored which is fine by me. For all his "ballhogging" he still got more assists than Brooks and MT combined. The thing is Jimmer is a scoring guard, at his best he's a 23ppg/6 assist on 14 shots kinda guy, not a 12/10 on 8 shots. You couple that with the fact that we run no half court offense and it shouldn't be a surprise that he appears to hog the ball. His job is to score when he's out there, and score he did. That's fine by me.
 
at his best he's a 23ppg/6 assist on 14 shots kinda guy, not a 12/10 on 8 shots. You couple that with the fact that we run no half court offense and it shouldn't be a surprise that he appears to hog the ball. His job is to score when he's out there, and score he did. That's fine by me.

Stephan Curry is not even a 23ppg/ 6assists guy how come Jimmer possibly be? But i agree with you the half court offense thats why most of our teams shooting % is so low we get no easy buckets other than the odd Chuck Hayes pass to a cutter
 
God this jimmer love has got to stop. Its obnoxious. He hurt more then he helped the team tonight. With his bad defense and ball hogging. If you cant see that, you either didnt watch the game, or your one of the fans that only joined the kings because jimmer was drafted

Come on Reke, what's with the jimmer bashing? You keep saying how you don't dislike jimmer, but most of your in-game posts say otherwise. Give the kid a break. He's doing what Smart is telling him to do - which is to score. We don't have much of a half court offense, so he has to create which looks like ball hogging. That's on Smart.

Still, even with all of that, he had more assists than Brooks and MT combined and shot 50% from the field, but you still choose to pick on him. Be mad at Smart, not him.

You know, its possible to love both Tyreke and Jimmer at the same time. I do. :)
 
Stephan Curry is not even a 23ppg/ 6assists guy how come Jimmer possibly be? But i agree with you the half court offense thats why most of our teams shooting % is so low we get no easy buckets other than the odd Chuck Hayes pass to a cutter

By at his best I mean if he were to ever become an all-star level or borderline all star player that would probably be his statline. Hypothetically speaking, of course.
 
Ditto.

Totally OT, how much snow has Mt. Shasta gotten so far?

I think they will have to wait for the storm to be over to send somebody up to check (if they can, there is not exactly a weather station up there). Meanwhile, in Camino, I haven't received nearly the rainfall I thought I would. I was expecting 12+ inches out of the system, and have so far only received 3.5. That's probably okay, though.
 
I'm really getting to the breaking point with this team. I grew up following UCLA and John Wooden and the Lakers and Pat Riley. And now for some godforsaken reason I'm following this? I grew up when the outlet pass thrown by Walton and Jabbar was a beautiful thing to see, when you could actually see the ball not even hit the floor after the defensive rebound and the bang, bang, bang of passing that would lead to a layup. Now instead of seeing the beautiful symmetry of the fast break, I see ugly dysfunction. This is ugly basketball.

This team hasn't even gone on an extended road trip yet. They are getting tons of practice time by NBA standards. If they can't come out with energy and efficiency against the Pacers, then I can't wait until the dog days of January and February.:rolleyes: Instead of the .500 prediction I made, the .250 prediction would have been more accurate for this year.

PS I can't help but ponder what Cousins will do when he's really tired on an extended road trip and they've just lost four or five in a row.:rolleyes:
 
I do not see how any one can blame a game like last night against the Pacers on the rotation/substitutions. There was no answer for West and Green. The Kings consistently made lazy entry passes which lead to many turnovers and several easy buckets the other way. Those are really 4 point plays because you lose the possession and give up 2. Indiana deserves some credit for their defense, especailly out front. The last shot by Thornton was terrible because they had a 6 10 guy on him. The Kings lead the League in a stat no one keeps track of - one-on-one percentage. All this and a victory was still withinn reach.

I would fine a player on this team every time his man beats him in transition for an uncontested lay-up. Stop the point leakage from this alone and win some games like last night without doing anything else differently.
 
What's your point? Do you have a solution in mind or is it just fun taking pot shots at Cuz.

I've already given numerous solutions in other threads. Not that they at all matter.

I'm just taking pot shots at him. You know, our big 6'11" center with all the talent in the world? The guy with so many moves, he can score at will? The guy who has more talent than just about any center, yet somehow shoots a lower percentage than pretty much all of them?

I bet if you switched Thompson's and Cousins' roles, Jason would score more points with greater efficiency than Cousins if he was allowed to attempt the same amount of shots.

At this point I'm starting to laugh at how bad he is in every game. What other center would take 17 shots, hit 9 out of 10 free throws and only go home with 19 points? Any other somewhat talented center scores 4 baskets that Cousins' misses and we walk away with a W.
 
What other center routinely gets the ball at the HIGH, high post when they have an advantage inside? Normally, it's your Brad Millers or Kevin Love types that get the ball there.

Why do we do it? Because our guards all want to drive, so we move Cousins out of the way. It should really be the reverse.

Not to say we always have great spacing. Even when Cousins works inside, the floor is spread in such a way that there's hardly ever a passing lane.
 
What other center routinely gets the ball at the HIGH, high post when they have an advantage inside? Normally, it's your Brad Millers or Kevin Love types that get the ball there.

Why do we do it? Because our guards all want to drive, so we move Cousins out of the way. It should really be the reverse.

Not to say we always have great spacing. Even when Cousins works inside, the floor is spread in such a way that there's hardly ever a passing lane.

I'd love to see this in giant flaming letters in the sky. Maybe then Smart would think of it...or not.
 
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