[Grades] Grades v. Nets 11/19/10

Kings Player of the Game?

  • Donte Greene

    Votes: 15 27.3%
  • Samuel Dalembert

    Votes: 6 10.9%
  • DeMarcus Cousins

    Votes: 21 38.2%
  • Beno Udrih (for the last shot)

    Votes: 13 23.6%

  • Total voters
    55
Was Casspi injured? Was casspi drunk? If not, what a bad decision! We won the game against probably the worst NBA in the league..damn I am not happy! Our coach is simply a fool nothing else. Playing the Donte game on Casspi-I am fed up and dont have any patience anymore.
If you are all happy simply draft him, he will get good minutes somewhere else.
Coach PW game on Donte was totally wrong but on Casspi it is simply not professional!
What a waste! I want Adelmam back!!!!!!
Westfool you suck!
 
What really excites me is the fact that this team is no longer SOFT in the middle like they were last season. Dalembert is not an offensive juggernaut, but his defense is key in keeping the Kings in games early. It seems like the rest of the team feeds off of Sam's defense. The tandem of Dalembert and DMC is a very good one/two punch at the center position. DMC is growing very quickly! Demarcus's defense is getting better every game and his offensive skills are already very polished and effective. I prefer Sam/DMC over Hawes/JT ANY DAY! Now the rest of the team needs to step up their defense as well. I like the way Head plays on defense, and he is a decent point guard that gets the team into their offensive sets and runs the plays effectively, but Beno does a better job of running the team. The problem is that Beno's defense is a major negative, and causes the other team to go on runs because of our defensive breakdown when Beno's man breaks down our defense off the dribble. Beno MUST improve his defense or he is going to get limited minutes going forward. I really like the way JT comes in and plays solid at the PF, and he is a much better option defensively than Landry, who just seems to get overwhelmed by any other pf in the league. It might be time to put JT in the starting lineup and sub in Landry for scoring. Landry MUST pick up his defense if he wants playing time. Donte Greene should be the starting SF, because he outplays Cisco and Casspi by far. Greene's defense is much better than Casspi, and Greene is a better rebounded and facilitator from the small forward position. Again, Casspi MUST pick up his defense to get more playing time. Westphal is starting to see who is willing to play defense and who isn't. And he is doling out the playing time accordingly. If players want to see playing time, they HAVE to step up their game on the defensive end. Casspi, Beno, Landry, and Cisco all are on the defensive watch list. If any of those players are playing well defensively, they will get more playing time, but if they are not doing their job on defense, PW has put them on notice that they are not going to get on the floor if they suck defensively. I really like the way PW has handled the playing time and has worked the rookie DMC into the gameplan. I am hoping that Whiteside can work his butt off in practice and get some PT as well. I know it is hard for rookies to get PT, and I hope that Hassan is able to get a look on occasion to see if his defense improves and he can be part of a very solid front court rotation. Jackson is a decent role player, but I would like to see Whiteside get those minutes if at all possible. Other than that, I think the Kings are moving in the right direction. It makes a big difference when the Kings play defense and hit their open shots. The Free Throws MUST improve. The Kings are near the bottom of the league at free throw shooting, and that is unacceptable. Lets hope the team improves in that area. GO KINGS !!
 
Yeah he's really faded after a strong start to the season. I don't know about you guys, but I just hate it when we have a full shot clock and on an inbounds play we just give it to Garcia for a catch turn and shoot. It's worked half the time, but not really a high percentage shot if you know what I mean. I mean, Garcia <<<<< Ray Allen.

It would be nice if our big guys had more hops/ learnt to dunk with one hand ala Amare. Cousins would get so many more dunks/and1s instead of getting blocked or just fouled. Too bad like some said, Cousins looks more like Moses Malone than Shaq.

Cheerful. You've captured the moment.
 
Was Casspi injured? Was casspi drunk? If not, what a bad decision! We won the game against probably the worst NBA in the league..damn I am not happy! Our coach is simply a fool nothing else. Playing the Donte game on Casspi-I am fed up and dont have any patience anymore.
If you are all happy simply draft him, he will get good minutes somewhere else.
Coach PW game on Donte was totally wrong but on Casspi it is simply not professional!
What a waste! I want Adelmam back!!!!!!
Westfool you suck!
Sounds like you care more about Omri's minutes than snapping a 6 game losing streak.

Funny, Omri might feel the same way to.
 
Donte and Omri should be splitting the SF minutes. Saying so isn't caring more about Omri than winning. Omri is a part of a winning future if anything.

I don't get why the rotations are so hard. There is only one real logjam, and thats at the 4/5 and that is the one place you want a logjam. Westphal is creating logjams everywhere else through his wacked out subbing.

Three guard rotation is: Reke, Beno and Head.
SF rotation is: Donte/Omri
The sweeper, to use a footie term, is Cisco who can fit in at both of those previous rotations where need be. He also can make Head redundant, which begs the question of why Head is the golden boy.
Big Man rotation is: Dally, Landry, JT and Cousins.

That is a 10 man rotation at max that has been turned into a 12 man rotation. A ten man rotation is just fine, its one deep at each spot. This shouldn't be the perplexing puzzle that Westphal makes it out to be.
 
Brick - I think you do a great job, and I have relied on your grade posts for years to keep up with the team.

I just think you are really exaggerating Landry and Beno's defensive deficiencies, to the point of biasing the entire Kings fans base against them.
The Kings defensive woes are simply not as clear-cut as you have been making it out to be.
It's not simply Beno+Landry = opposition pwns us.

To give Landry a C on a night when you gave Reke and JT a C and C+ is focusing so much on perception that it's dangerously biased - bordering on Voison territory.

Reke's lack of rebounding/boxing-out and TO's cost us at LEAST as many points as Landry's "mistakes" (which I don't remember one clear example).
Do you only focus on how much the opposing player scores when he's on the same court as Landry/Beno? Because when Humphries scored, most of them were on broken/garbage plays. He threw worse shots up at the rim than Sam/DMC did - they just went in all the time. Do you expect Landry to be able to stop opposing players from getting ANY shots off? He was there, in position, for about the entire game. Maybe I'm completely missing all these supposed examples of Landry and Beno completely missing their assignments and single-handedly costing the Kings dozens of points, but I've been looking very closely, and rewinding 3 and 4 times on plays and I don't see this absurdly-bad defense you are continually propagandizing about.

I see BIG defensive mistakes by JT (fouling away points), Reke (not boxing out or following up on rebounds and turning the ball over leading to opponent points) and Cisco/Omri (regularly costs 2 to 4 points a game each).

Put simply, I don't see Landry or Beno giving away more defensive out-and-out mistakes than any other King right now.

Here's the stats:
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Carl Landry, PF 36 7-12 0-0 1-1 2 4 6 0 1 0 6 2 -3 15
Beno Udrih, PG 22 5-9 2-3 0-0 1 2 3 2 0 0 0 1 +1 12
Tyreke Evans, PG 41 8-21 0-1 4-5 1 2 3 4 3 0 5 2 -2 20
Jason Thompson, C 10 1-1 0-0 2-4 0 3 3 0 0 1 1 3 +4 4

Your over-emphasis on defense, when the defensive lapses are not clear individual mistakes, and ignoring the effect JT's fouls has, leads KF's to ignore the absolutely VITAL scoring that Landry and Beno have been doing most of the year (especially the last 4 games).
Ignoring Landry's almost-SIX offensive rebounds in each of the past FOUR GAMES and solely focusing on perceived defensive pwnage is starting to have me question your objectivity with these grade threads, and skews the fan who reads them's perceptions, creating bias (like "we don't need Beno or Landry"). I see it all over the forum.

Other than this tweak/criticism, I think you provide a vital resource to Kings fans with these Grade Threads - keep them up - I can see how much work they are.
I will try to jot down notes next time I get the chance during a game to address your points if they are going to continually hammer those 2 on defense and ignore their contributions to the team.

This post is all simply IMO.
 
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I really enjoyed watching last evenings game. The Kings finally came out with a game plan and executed it. They played with a purpose and an intensity which resulted in them actually looking like a basketball team. I liked the starting line up and it's focus on defense with players having defined roles.

Hopefully they will play strong against New Orleans tommorrow.
 
I just think you are really exaggerating Landry and Beno's defensive deficiencies, to the point of biasing the entire Kings fans base against them.
The Kings defensive woes are simply not as clear-cut as you have been making it out to be.
It's not simply Beno+Landry = opposition pwns us.

Your over-emphasis on defense, when the defensive lapses are not clear individual mistakes, and ignoring the effect JT's fouls has, leads KF's to ignore the absolutely VITAL scoring that Landry and Beno have been doing most of the year (especially the last 4 games).
Ignoring Landry's almost-SIX offensive rebounds in each of the past FOUR GAMES and solely focusing on perceived defensive pwnage is starting to have me question your objectivity with these grade threads, and skews the fan who reads them's perceptions, creating bias (like "we don't need Beno or Landry"). I see it all over the forum.
I really hope you're not implying we can't think for ourselves. I think most of us appreciate what Brick does on this forum, but it's not like he states his opinion and everyone falls in line.

I think it's rediculous you think there is an over emphasis on defense. Have you seen where we're ranked this season? How about the past few seasons? We've been one of the absolute worst defensive teams in the league over the last few seasons.

Because others see what Brick see's, and that is Beno getting beaten like a drum by opposing pg's, and Landry having a tough time defending opposing pf's, as well as boxing them out on the defensive end, you think it's more of Brick swaying opinion than what is actually happening on the court? Or anyone who agree's with Brick about Beno and Landry being the weak links defensively in the new starting lineup, that we didn't come to that opinion ourselves?

You are greatly underestimating the intelligence of a number of posters on here who have brought up both Beno's and Landry's defensive struggles since we aquired them.
 
You are greatly underestimating the intelligence of a number of posters on here who have brought up both Beno's and Landry's defensive struggles since we aquired them.
And I think you are greatly underestimating the influence the vocal posters have here on KF's perception of the Kings.

But that's just my opinion.

That OK with you that I post one different from yours, man?
 
And I think you are greatly underestimating the influence the vocal posters have here on KF's perception of the Kings.

But that's just my opinion.

That OK with you that I post one different from yours, man?
Are you serious, MAN??? You basically called out everyone in the entire forum who agrees with Brick, and shares a different point of view than you, and implied those of us who do share that point of view, didn't come to it on our own, and instead follow like sheep.

So it's ok for you to have your opinion, but if someone else shares the same opinion as Brick regarding Beno and Landry, it's invalid? They feel that way because they're incapable of forming an opinion on their own?

Yet your asking me if it's ok if you post a different opinion? Get out of here with that crap.
 
Brick - I think you do a great job, and I have relied on your grade posts for years to keep up with the team.

I just think you are really exaggerating Landry and Beno's defensive deficiencies, to the point of biasing the entire Kings fans base against them.
The Kings defensive woes are simply not as clear-cut as you have been making it out to be.
It's not simply Beno+Landry = opposition pwns us.

To give Landry a C on a night when you gave Reke and JT a C and C+ is focusing so much on perception that it's dangerously biased - bordering on Voison territory.

Reke's lack of rebounding/boxing-out and TO's cost us at LEAST as many points as Landry's "mistakes" (which I don't remember one clear example).
Do you only focus on how much the opposing player scores when he's on the same court as Landry/Beno? Because when Humphries scored, most of them were on broken/garbage plays. He threw worse shots up at the rim than Sam/DMC did - they just went in all the time. Do you expect Landry to be able to stop opposing players from getting ANY shots off? He was there, in position, for about the entire game. Maybe I'm completely missing all these supposed examples of Landry and Beno completely missing their assignments and single-handedly costing the Kings dozens of points, but I've been looking very closely, and rewinding 3 and 4 times on plays and I don't see this absurdly-bad defense you are continually propagandizing about.

I see BIG defensive mistakes by JT (fouling away points), Reke (not boxing out or following up on rebounds and turning the ball over leading to opponent points) and Cisco/Omri (regularly costs 2 to 4 points a game each).

Put simply, I don't see Landry or Beno giving away more defensive out-and-out mistakes than any other King right now.

Here's the stats:
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Carl Landry, PF 36 7-12 0-0 1-1 2 4 6 0 1 0 6 2 -3 15
Beno Udrih, PG 22 5-9 2-3 0-0 1 2 3 2 0 0 0 1 +1 12
Tyreke Evans, PG 41 8-21 0-1 4-5 1 2 3 4 3 0 5 2 -2 20
Jason Thompson, C 10 1-1 0-0 2-4 0 3 3 0 0 1 1 3 +4 4

Your over-emphasis on defense, when the defensive lapses are not clear individual mistakes, and ignoring the effect JT's fouls has, leads KF's to ignore the absolutely VITAL scoring that Landry and Beno have been doing most of the year (especially the last 4 games).
Ignoring Landry's almost-SIX offensive rebounds in each of the past FOUR GAMES and solely focusing on perceived defensive pwnage is starting to have me question your objectivity with these grade threads, and skews the fan who reads them's perceptions, creating bias (like "we don't need Beno or Landry"). I see it all over the forum.

Other than this tweak/criticism, I think you provide a vital resource to Kings fans with these Grade Threads - keep them up - I can see how much work they are.
I will try to jot down notes next time I get the chance during a game to address your points if they are going to continually hammer those 2 on defense and ignore their contributions to the team.

This post is all simply IMO.

Oh, I will freely admit to having some influence in how fans see the game. Its precisely why I am careful to never go all talk radio and top the balance wildly in my analysei. But much as I might have some influence, my ego is not quite sufficient to believe that I have reached out to influence Coach Westphal to bench first Demarcus, then Beno, and now finally Omri for defensive purposes. Landry would be the logical next guy, except that with the current starting lineup of defensive roleplayers he pretty much has to stay to give Reke a wingman unless either Donte blows up or Coach decides Boogie has learned enoguh to be able to take over at PF.

As an aside: 1) very few guards box out. And Reke is one of the best rebounding guards in the league. 2) Defensive rebs > than offensive rebs, in particular obviously when you are talking about defense.
 
My vote goes to DerMarcus. He did a bit of everything except for hitting his shots (2-8). He had precious rebounds and defensive stops in key moments of the game, managed to stay out of foul trouble which kept him motivated... If he can hit his shots for the next matches while keeping his focus on D and rebounding and staying ou of foul trouble he can even get into the ROY conversations...

right now hes averating good numbers even in limited minutes (10.5ppg 6.9rpg 0,9spg and 0,8bpg in 23mpg) compared Favors (7.1ppg, 6.3rpg 0,7bpg in 20mpg)

Once Cousins learn to stay out of trouble to keep him motivated and cofident for te game he'll be averaging 16/9 or even 17/10 if he make his way back into the starting line-up..
 
My vote goes to DerMarcus. He did a bit of everything except for hitting his shots (2-8). He had precious rebounds and defensive stops in key moments of the game, managed to stay out of foul trouble which kept him motivated... If he can hit his shots for the next matches while keeping his focus on D and rebounding and staying ou of foul trouble he can even get into the ROY conversations...

right now hes averating good numbers even in limited minutes (10.5ppg 6.9rpg 0,9spg and 0,8bpg in 23mpg) compared Favors (7.1ppg, 6.3rpg 0,7bpg in 20mpg)

Once Cousins learn to stay out of trouble to keep him motivated and cofident for te game he'll be averaging 16/9 or even 17/10 if he make his way back into the starting line-up..

Blake Griffin had 44/15/7/2/1 tonight...

I'm as psyched on Cuz as the rest, but there is no way we are getting back to back ROY. Griffin and Wall are just too good.
 
Blake Griffin had 44/15/7/2/1 tonight...

I'm as psyched on Cuz as the rest, but there is no way we are getting back to back ROY. Griffin and Wall are just too good.

That's crazy! Griffin and Wall are only about 13 games into their NBA career and both are looking like legit allstars.
 
Blake Griffin had 44/15/7/2/1 tonight... I'm as psyched on Cuz as the rest, but there is no way we are getting back to back ROY. Griffin and Wall are just too good.

I watched the Clipper game tonight. Griffin was a gigantic beast. Cuz will improve his play and stats as the season continues. With that said, I agree w you. The ROY will go to Blake or Wall (probably Blake Griffin if he doesn't get hurt). Go Kings!!
 
I watched the Clipper game tonight. Griffin was a gigantic beast. Cuz will improve his play and stats as the season continues. With that said, I agree w you. The ROY will go to Blake or Wall (probably Blake Griffin if he doesn't get hurt). Go Kings!!

I think the most impressive thing I took out of that game was that the CLippers are so bad that they could get 44 points from Griffin and still lose and against the Knicks nonetheless.
 
Brick - I think you do a great job, and I have relied on your grade posts for years to keep up with the team.

I just think you are really exaggerating Landry and Beno's defensive deficiencies, to the point of biasing the entire Kings fans base against them.
The Kings defensive woes are simply not as clear-cut as you have been making it out to be.
It's not simply Beno+Landry = opposition pwns us.

To give Landry a C on a night when you gave Reke and JT a C and C+ is focusing so much on perception that it's dangerously biased - bordering on Voison territory.

Reke's lack of rebounding/boxing-out and TO's cost us at LEAST as many points as Landry's "mistakes" (which I don't remember one clear example).
Do you only focus on how much the opposing player scores when he's on the same court as Landry/Beno? Because when Humphries scored, most of them were on broken/garbage plays. He threw worse shots up at the rim than Sam/DMC did - they just went in all the time. Do you expect Landry to be able to stop opposing players from getting ANY shots off? He was there, in position, for about the entire game. Maybe I'm completely missing all these supposed examples of Landry and Beno completely missing their assignments and single-handedly costing the Kings dozens of points, but I've been looking very closely, and rewinding 3 and 4 times on plays and I don't see this absurdly-bad defense you are continually propagandizing about.

I see BIG defensive mistakes by JT (fouling away points), Reke (not boxing out or following up on rebounds and turning the ball over leading to opponent points) and Cisco/Omri (regularly costs 2 to 4 points a game each).

Put simply, I don't see Landry or Beno giving away more defensive out-and-out mistakes than any other King right now.

Here's the stats:
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Carl Landry, PF 36 7-12 0-0 1-1 2 4 6 0 1 0 6 2 -3 15
Beno Udrih, PG 22 5-9 2-3 0-0 1 2 3 2 0 0 0 1 +1 12
Tyreke Evans, PG 41 8-21 0-1 4-5 1 2 3 4 3 0 5 2 -2 20
Jason Thompson, C 10 1-1 0-0 2-4 0 3 3 0 0 1 1 3 +4 4

Your over-emphasis on defense, when the defensive lapses are not clear individual mistakes, and ignoring the effect JT's fouls has, leads KF's to ignore the absolutely VITAL scoring that Landry and Beno have been doing most of the year (especially the last 4 games).
Ignoring Landry's almost-SIX offensive rebounds in each of the past FOUR GAMES and solely focusing on perceived defensive pwnage is starting to have me question your objectivity with these grade threads, and skews the fan who reads them's perceptions, creating bias (like "we don't need Beno or Landry"). I see it all over the forum.

Other than this tweak/criticism, I think you provide a vital resource to Kings fans with these Grade Threads - keep them up - I can see how much work they are.
I will try to jot down notes next time I get the chance during a game to address your points if they are going to continually hammer those 2 on defense and ignore their contributions to the team.

This post is all simply IMO.
Yeah, well, whatever they have done the previous 4 games has all resulted in 4 losses so I guess your 'pwnage' comment is backfiring. And I don't care if you score 30, because if you give up 44 then you are down 14.
 
ergh maybe I'm missing smth but when did Brook Lopez became a 2nd best center in the league - Gasol, Duncan, Bogut??? Even though the first two arent pure centers they play at the middle if needed.
 
ergh maybe I'm missing smth but when did Brook Lopez became a 2nd best center in the league - Gasol, Duncan, Bogut??? Even though the first two arent pure centers they play at the middle if needed.

PF, PF, injury prone guy avergaing 12.9ppg.

Duncan is free to call himself a center now if he'd like since that is what's always been, but in that case he is going to have to surrender that best PF of all time title.
 
I really hope you're not implying we can't think for ourselves. I think most of us appreciate what Brick does on this forum, but it's not like he states his opinion and everyone falls in line.
I'm not implying anything.
You, however, are busy replying to statements I didn't make. Stick to quoting me next time. Misrepresenting another person's statement is a weak argumentative technique. Look up "Straw Man Fallacy".

I didn't say everyone on KF's is a sheeple.
I said Brick has influence, and I brought up one area which IN MY OPINION he is exaggerating a defensive deficiency. You misread multiple parts of my post.

Then Brick agreed with his influence:
Brickmeister said:
Oh, I will freely admit to having some influence in how fans see the game. Its precisely why I am careful to never go all talk radio and top the balance wildly in my analysei.
Brick and I understand he influences the boards - you seem to be unaware of this. I can't tell if it's because you're ignoring it or you are unaware of it.
----------------------------------

Brick - thanks for the reply, and taking care with your position on the boards. That's why I voiced the concern to you.
 
To be fair to the other posters, Bricklayer doesn't exactly suffer from lack of ego; he would believe that he influences other posters, whether it's true or not, so I wouldn't necessarily go by what he has to say on the subject.
 
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