[Grades] Grades v. Jazz 12/7/2013

Kings player of the game?

  • Cousins

    Votes: 21 47.7%
  • McLemore

    Votes: 17 38.6%
  • Thomas

    Votes: 3 6.8%
  • Ndiaye

    Votes: 3 6.8%

  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
KF_GradingConsortium201314600x378_zps660e18ea.jpg


safe_image.php

Kinda looks like Malone too.

What can I say, we are epic.

On a night when the Jazz had absolutely nobody who could cover either Cuz or IT, it fell to a rookie who no doubt felt my evil grading eye bearing down on him after he was absolutely killing us down the stretch with miss after miss and blown coverage after coverage...and said rookie suddenly stepped up and finally hit a huge shot, the biggest of his young career, as he tied the game with 3 seconds to go and sent us into an overtime where we pulled away. Good on him. And good on us, even if it came against the other bad team in the West, even if it felt a little fortunate we pulled it off. At least we finally did. Tanking record aside, we needed to finally win one of these.

Your Consoritum Graders tonight:
Bricklayer
Uncia03
Rainmaker
Bajaden
Capt. Factorial


Boxscore

Stats: 27min 8pts (2-6, 0-0, 4-5) 4reb 1ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
Williams ( C ) -- Williams didn't take a shot until the 8:39 mark of the first quarter, and left it short off the front of the rim, but Hayes grabbed the board and put it back in. He then got beat off the dribble by Jefferson who laid it in. A bit later, he pulled up and missed an 18 footer. For the most part, other than being beat off the dribble, he played pretty good defense on Jefferson. He went to the bench at 4:50 of the first quarter, and didn't get back until the 5:30 mark of the 2nd quarter. He immediately scored off a nice pass while cutting to the basket. He later did a nice job of getting back on a break and preventing Hayward from getting an easy basket. He closed out his first half by going under a screen and allowing Hayward to hit an open three. He started the 2nd half by going backdoor and getting fouled. Making 1 of 2. He continued playing good defense on Jefferson, but once again, later he got caught in a screen and allowed Hayward to hit a 20 footer. He went to the bench at the 2:54 mark of the 3rd quarter, and returned at the 7:20 mark of the 4th, but for a brief period, played the PF position. Other than fouling Burke to stop an easy basket, and stealing the ball, going end to end, and then getting his shot blocked by Hayward, it was uneventful. All in all, Williams played fairly well, but didn't do anything that really stood out in the game. He did manage to score 8 points on 2 of 6 shooting. He did get open under the basket a few times, but didn't get the pass. He didn't rebound as well in this game either. So I can't really mark him down for lack of effort, because the effort was there. I'll just chalk it up to lack of opportunities, which does happen from time to time. I would like to see him be more aggressive, and perhaps that will come as he gets more comfortable in Malone's system. --Baja

Stats: 29min 11pts (3-9, 0-0, 5-6) 5reb 1ast 1stl 1blk 0TO
Thompson ( C+ ) -- I thought this one actually started off pretty well for JT. Due to our franchise centerpiece making a boneheaded decision less than a minute in and ending up on the bench, we were left with a gaping hole on our frontline and I thought Jason did pretty well doing what he could to help fill that void. He was active on the glass, offered a defensive presence down low but just as importantly offered an inside presence for us on the offense end as he posted up, got to the FT line, was active on the offensive boards and finished a couple plays inside. Missed a few more inside but the intent was correct and I do generally prefer seeing JT being active and aggressive in the paint rather than settling for jumpers. Very solid first half for Jason and if it ended there I would have given him a solid (B), as his presence was felt on both ends, he helped fill the void Cuz left and finished the half with 10 pt and 4 rebs. This was a tale of two halves though, as Jason largely disappeared in the second half. Played the first 9 minutes of the 3rd quarter and came away with 1pt(1-2 FT's) and 1 reb. That would be his contribution for the rest of the night aside from a blocked shot late in the 4th. He did offer both a defensive and sometimes physical presence during his two second half stints but did little on the glass and his overall activity level dropped substantially in comparison to the first half. JT has a habit of starting strong and fading, and as a leader and vet on this team I'd like to see more consistency from him from half to half. --Rain

Stats: 27min 28pts (10-15, 0-0, 8-10) 7reb 3ast 2stl 3blk 4TO
Cousins ( A- ) -- Didn't even break a sweat before picking up his second foul and getting taken out of the game a whole one minute and twenty-five seconds in. He got six minutes in the second and scored five points on a post, a free-throw jumper, and 1-2 from the charity stripe, but had no rebounds until midway through the third. He finished with seven rebounds in 27 minutes, which is decent but not really great. The third quarter was really Cousins' time to shine on offense, scoring 13 points (all in the post or at the free throw line) in just under 8 minutes, going 4-5 from the floor and 5-6 from the line. Kanter simply had no answer for him, and given that Cousins was no longer in foul trouble it was pretty inexplicable that he sat down for nine whole minutes following his beast-mode quarter. When Cousins finally entered in the fourth. the Jazz took to absolutely mauling him in the paint and with calls being a bit sparse we went away from the post as the Jazz put on a 15-point run. Oddly, when we went back to Cousins in the post, we set him up on the wrong side of the floor (Cousins' weak right side, that is) four times in succession, resulting in a bad pass turnover, a miss, a hit, and a pass out for a reset - and suddenly we were down five. Cuz helped us get to overtime by running the floor to follow up a fast break miss for a dunk and subsequently got his easiest two of the game on a pick and roll with IT as the Jazz were guarding the three-point line to pull us within one. After Ben's tying shot, with 3.2 on the game clock, Cousins put in some probably underappreciated effort in guarding Gordon Hayward tight after a switch and forcing the Jazz to take a timeout to avoid a five-second call. Finally, in overtime, the Kings went back to Cousins on the left block and he absolutely destroyed Kanter (we'll ignore the time when Kanter mugged him and the refs swallowed the whistle resulting in a turnover) scoring twice more and fouling Kanter out. Cousins had a huge night in the paint tonight, going 9-14 in the paint and drawing ten FTs, while taking only one jumper all night (a free-throw line jumper, which he hit). Certainly without Favors the Jazz are weak defenders in the paint, but Cousins took advantage of it and probably would have made a little statement towards this year's all-star bid - had anybody outside of Sac and Utah actually watched the game. --Capt.

Stats: 38min 15pts (6-17, 1-6, 2-4) 9reb 1ast 2stl 1blk 0TO
McLemore ( B ) -- now here's a grade that moved around all over the place during the evening, and there's probably not a single grade you could give that fairly encapsulates the whole thing. For three quarters of this one I was vaguely pleased overall, but it was a mishmash of conflicting elements. defensively he found yet another player he can't guard, as he was having problems staying in front of Hayward early, including getting blown by to start the game and quickly get a foul on Cousins trying to bail him out again. And the shot...what is it with that shot? Except for the pretty form, if you watched the first 45 minutes of this one your conclusion about Ben would have to be "great athlete, can't shoot a lick". That continues to mystify. But the positive flip of that statement was that he was doing a lot of very nice things out there with that athelticism that was balancing against the issues. He got a couple of extremely tough racing finishes inside, once bouncing off Kanter's chest and still hitting a tough finish off the glass as he fell backward. He was a big hustle help on the glass, and set a new career high for boards. He saved several balls from going out of bounds with athletic leaps into the stands. Several times he tried to use those hops flying back in transition defense and trying to hit his head on the rim. And he got out on the break and slammed home a huge alley oop. And so it went for 3/4. Exciting plays covering over him messing up all the supposedly simple ones. Then the stretch run came around, we put Ben back in for an ineffective Thronton, seemed like the right thing to do. And the damn rook just about killed us. He was terrible for the next 5 minutes. We got him open jumper after open jumper, and our supposed shootist bricked and bricked. Then he went down to the other end of the floor, kept going under screens or turning his head...and well, if we had lost this, and we might well have, Ben would have been the single biggest culprit as his grade sunk like a stone. At the 18 second mark, with the Jazz up 1, he again mysteriously blew a defensive coverage, completely leaving Alex Burks in the corner. The Jazz got Burks the ball, and by the time Ben recovered Burks blew by him to the rim to get fouled and put the Jazz up 3. Pure rookie stuff. But little did you know he was just showing veteran saavy, setting the Jazz up so that he could play the hero with 3 seconds to go as IT found him one more time for an open three...and he buried it to tie the game and send it to OT. He hit another nice shot off an out of bounds play in the OT to push our lead out there as well. And so there you have about as varied a body of work as you are going to find. Up, down, all around. I'm not sure what this grade should be really, but playing the hero traditionally gets you a bump in these grades...even if you create the need to be a hero yourself earlier in the game. As do career highs in things. So this was still messy. But messy productive with big highlights.--Brick

Stats: 21min 4pts (1-5, 0-0, 2-2) 1reb 4ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Vasquez ( B- ) -- Vasquez didn’t have a good statistical game, but he that doesn’t mean that he played poorly. They started off the game by posting him up on Burke but he was unable to hit the shot. The second time down they started to run a set to get him post position again but the ball got tipped and they ended up running something else. Vasquez was ineffective scoring the ball, but mostly because he didn’t really look for his shot. Of his 5 shots he really only took a single good shot which was the one he made where he came off a curl screen at the top of the key, got the ball and drove to the rim +1. But the rest of the shots were not really in rhythm and didn’t look great. On defense he wasn’t getting torched by Burke, which was nice. Burke wasn’t really looking to score either and Vasquez did a decent job staying with him and containing him. He didn’t shut Burke down, but Burke wasn’t killing the Kings like so many of the previous guards have been doing. The reason why he really didn’t have that bad of a game is because his teammates really let him down in this one. He ended the game with 4 assists, but he actually managed the game fairly well and did a great job setting up his teammates. I counted a total of 8 times in his 21 minutes of play where his teammates failed to convert on a set-up by Vasquez. If the other guys had been able to make shots that he set for them the Kings would never have been down in this game. Regardless, he wasn’t looking to make plays for himself and his teammates weren’t converting, so it greatly limited his impact. In the second half he looked great for two reasons. First his teammates were converting their shot and it was actually the 2nd half where he got all four of his assists. Secondly, he did a wonderful job working to facilitate the offense through Cousins. In that third quarter there were 15 half-court offensive possessions. Of those 15 possessions Cousins attempted to post 7 times and Vasquez got him the ball 6 of those times in good position. The other 8 possessions where Cousins didn’t try to post Vasquez gets him the ball 7 of the times. You all remember how dominate Cousins was to start the 3rd quarter? Well it’s because Vasquez was making sure that Cousins touched the ball on almost every half-court possession. From a team management perspective I don’t think he could have done much better. He came out of the game at the 4 minute mark of the 3rd quarter with the Kings leading and though the Kings blew that lead and had to crawl themselves out of a hole he never saw the court again. --Uncia
 
Last edited:
Bench

Stats: 19min 5pts (2-6, 0-0, 1-1) 8reb 2ast 0stl 1blk 1TO
Hayes ( C+ ) -- Chuck got into the game early due to Cousins' foul trouble, and mostly held the line against a very subpar Jazz frontcourt. Minus Derrick Favors, it's basically E-Mail Kanter (he refuses to use the Post) and...nothing of consequence. Chuck's calling-card defense isn't quite so apparent against a weak frontcourt, but at least he was calling out assignments, and he did set one spam-block on the E-mail after Kanter successfully drove around him in the third. He turned a lackluster early rebounding game into a some very solid totals by grabbing four boards in four and a half minutes in the fourth quarter before sitting down for good. Offensively, he did about what you would expect, missing shots in the paint and getting stuffed for lack of hops. His 2-6 line looks a bit worse when you consider that it was really 1-5, the other hit being E-Mail Kanter's mail server bouncing one back into his own inbox. --Capt.

Stats: 28min 2pts (1-8, 0-2, 0-0) 3reb 5ast 1stl 0blk 2TO
Salmons ( C- ) -- To be honest, I was leaning hard toward a D+ in this one. But John did play hard, and he did manage 5 assists. I'd like to say that he played lock down defense, but I would be lying. Three different times in the game, he decided to just leave Jefferson, and all three times Jefferson scored. He came into the game at 4:50 of the 1st quarter, and immediately missed a 16 ft jumper. On the next possession he came off a screen and hit a 14 ft jumper. I thought just maybe this would be one of those nights when John was hitting his shots. little did I know that it was the last basket he would make on the night. It was another of those nights when John plays 28 minutes, and scores 2 pts, and grabs 3 rebounds. As a matter of fact, what we go from our SF position tonight in a total of 56 minutes, was 10 points on 3 of 14 shooting, and 7 rebounds. Your not going to win a lot of games with that production. I won't bore you with anymore details, other than to say the I thought John played pretty good defense on Hayward in the second half when he was guarding him. He didn't do much in the overtime, but it was the Cousins show. --Baja

Stats: 23min 7pts (3-6, 1-3, 0-0) 7reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Patterson ( B ) -- PP had a very solid game tonight and beyond his numbers filled an important role for us against this Utah team, a role which might not serve as successful against some of the larger and more physical teams in the league but one which was valuable out there tonight. Spacing. The offense opened up and had a better flow to it when PP was out there. I don't put much stock in (+/-) but tonight his (+20) was far and away the highest (+/-) of anyone on our team. He helped stretch and open up the defense with his presence and I thought having both he and MLM out there offered our best spacing of the night. Helped carry our 2nd unit in the late 3rd/early 4th as we opened up a 9 point lead. He was subbed and five minutes later Utah made a 13 point swing of it, from being down 9 to up 4. He re-entered and we outscored Utah 25-11 the rest of the way. Patrick also did a solid job defensively as well as had an above average game by his standards on the boards, pulling down 7 rebs. Was his affect tonight on our offense just a coincidence? I don't think it was, his ability to help spread the floor and his movement within the offense was a positive and gave us a boost. Is this something we can expect on even a semi-consistent basis? That remains to be seen. Last time I graded PP he had his best game of the season yet has largely been invisible since. Tonight he again played a key support role. If we could get this type of an effort most nights, keep the defense honest and hit a few of his outside shots, show a willingness to hit the glass on both ends and mix it up inside and be at least average defensively, he's an asset to this ball club given how its currently built. --Rain

Stats: 32min 26pts (8-14, 1-3, 9-10) 1reb 8ast 4stl 0blk 3TO
Thomas ( A ) -- What to do with IT. He’s far and away the most controversial King on the roster and he isn’t helped at all by the two guys who cover the game for the Kings as they make it seem that it will be a major snubbing if he doesn’t make the all-star team. That sort of thing isn’t really fair to him because he’s a good basketball player with some real strengths as well as some real weaknesses. During the game thread the question was: Can IT get the ball to Cousins in the post where he’s most effective? And then I guess the subsequent question is: Does the answer to the previous question impact how we view IT, especially as it pertains to playing the point guard position. So here is what I decided to do. I went back watched every single half-court offensive possession starting from the 3rd quarter while Cousins was in the game. I wanted to see what he did (Did he post or not post), and what happened in that offensive possession. In my notes I mention both a post and a deep post, and when I say deep post what I mean is that with a single move he could probably get to the rim, and a post is further out around 14+ feet. IT didn’t play with Cousins in the 3rd quarter so these are the 4th Quarter and OT results:
16 Half-Court Possessions (12 minutes and 20 seconds)
13 posts attempts. IT got it to him 2 times, Salmons 5 times, Ben 2 times. Did not get it 4 times.
He also set 1 high pick and there were 2 times he wasn’t involved at all.
So the answer was that in this game IT didn’t get the ball to Cousins in the post where Cousins is most effective. What happened is that the first time Cousins posted up, IT instead beckons him to come out and set the high pick which Cousins does. The next possession IT tries to get the pass to Cousins but it results in a turn-over. From that point Salmons is the primary ball-handler who is used to get the ball into Cousins.
So what does that speak to in regards to IT being a good PG or a good PG for this team? I’ll let you all fight over that. But even though IT didn’t do well in that aspect it doesn’t take away from his overall game and impact on the floor. He did what we need him to do, which is be a spark-plug off the bench and score a lot of points. Well he scored a lot of points on a great percentage (26 points on 8-14) and also found the open man and racked up 8 assists. He had some bad moments, especially on the fast-break, and in particular on a 2-1 where he did the behind-the-back dribble that should have been a turn-over but instead resulted in no points even though he had a wide-open Salmons on the wing. So since I believe that Malone prefers IT to be the spark-plug and not necessarily the primary PG and table-setter for Cousins I’m not going to harp on his inability to get Cousins the ball, and this issue could be the primary reason what IT remains as the 6th man off the bench because Vasquez does a much better job of setting up Cousins and getting him involved. If you’re curious, below are the results for Vasquez in the 3rd quarter (since Vasquez didn’t play in the 4th and OT):
15 Half-Court Possessions (8 minutes)
7 post attempts. Vasquez got it to him 6 times and there was 1 time Vasquez couldn’t get it in.
6 Elbow possessions where Vasquez got him the ball on the elbow
2 High Pick possessions, one an elbow PnR where Vasquez found him at the rim for the easy bucket.
So you can see that Vasquez was far more adept at getting the ball to Cousins in good position compared to IT.
--uncia*

*see below for possession by possession breakdown

Stats: 15min 5pts (2-7, 0-1, 0-0) 2reb 0ast 0stl 1blk 0TO
Thornton ( D+ ) -- came in and hit an early three...and it was practically the last thing of note he did the entire game. Not all of that is on him as its just borderline bizarre how we have this guy formerly known as an explosive scorer, and just nobody is looking for him. At one point we had a lineup out there of Ndiaye, PPat, who at the time was still traumatized from the other night and actually running away from shots, John Salmons working on his 1-8, and MT/IT, and it was like MT didn't exist out there. I dunno, maybe Malone truly hates him and has designed an offense perfectly tailored to eliminate his game. Its just weird to watch. And of course when he does hoist a shot, it routinely looks out of rhythm and awful. At one point he flat airballed a step back three in the corner on the break. Now on the other hand, this grade doesn't fall all the way to the very bottom, because the other half of the weird is the degree that MT seems to actually be buying in, or trying to buy in to whatever it is we are doing out there. There was notable defensive hustle, although no particular competence. He tried at least. He repeatedly swung the ball rather than gunning up shots. Unfortunately he swung the ball to guys like John Salmons. Any offense featuring Marcus Thornton swinging the ball to John Salmons at this point in their careers is suspect. Finally got his 2nd and last good play when he swiped a ball on defense to trigger a break, and got out to finish it in the early 4th. I can't bring myself to call a 2-7 4pt night by a former 18ppg scorer a C type night, but at least I'll give the "+" for the effort to play it right, if ineffectively. --Brick

Stats: 2min 0pts (0-0, 0-0, 0-0) 1reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Ndiaye ( A ) -- Only got two minutes at the end of the first, but did exactly what he was asked to do - he intentionally fouled Andris Biedrins three times, resulting in the Jazz scoring only one point on those three possessions. He actually tried to play within the offense ("Aw, that's so cuuute!" say the real NBA players) and had a nice open cut to the basket and also an open roll after setting a pick, but didn't get a delivery either time. Honestly, with two passes he could have had two dunks, but he settled for just a single rebound in the box score. Note: I would foul the living hell out of Andris Biedrins (or, at least his knees and lower thighs) for $400K a year. No question. --Capt.

Stats: 5min 2pts (1-1, 0-0, 0-0) 1reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Outlaw ( ) -- --Baja

*Below is the possession by possession break-down:
3rd Quarter
Vasquez Managing the Game
1: Doesn’t post. Gets it at the elbow immediately from Vasquez.
2: Doesn’t post. Gets it at the elbow immediately from Vasquez.
3: Doesn’t post. Gets ball on the sideline inbound (elbow) and tries alley-oop to Williams.
4: Doesn’t post. Gets ball on the sideline inbound (elbow) again.
5: Posts deep. Vasquez can’t get it to him. Shoots instead and Cousin never touches it.
6: Posts. Vasquez gets him the ball where he was posting.
7: Posts deep. Vasquez gets him the ball one dribble from the rim.
8: Doesn’t post. Gets ball at the elbow.
9: Deep post. Vasquez gets him the ball right where he needs it.
10: Doesn’t post. Gets ball at the elbow.
11: Doesn’t post. High Pick, PnR will Vasquez and Vasquez gets him the ball at the rim.
12: Doesn’t post. High Pick, Vasquez goes to JT instead of Cousins and he doesn’t touch it.
13: Deep post. Vasquez gets him the ball. One dribble and the lay-in + 1.
14: Deep post. Vasquez gets him the ball right in front of the rim.
15: Deep post. Vasquez gets him the ball low right block.
IT in at the 4 minute mark of the 3rd quarter but Cousin goes out at the same time as Vasquez.
Cousins comes in at the 7:20 mark of the 4th.
1: Posts. IT instead beckons him to come out and set a high PnR which he does but he never touches it.
2: Posts. IT tries to get it to him but it’s a high short pass that results in a TO.
3: Posts. Was fouled, but it was Salmons who had the ball that was going to get it to him.
4: Posts. Salmons got him the ball.
5: Deep post. IT gets him the ball.
6: Deep post. Doesn’t get it and doesn’t touch it.
7: Doesn’t Post. Not involved. Doesn’t touch the basketball.
8: Deep post. Ben gets him the ball.
9: Deep post. IT gets him the ball.
10: Posts: Salmons gets him the ball.
11: Doesn’t post. High Pick and Roll and IT get it to him at the rim.
OVERTIME with IT
1: Deep post. Salmons gets it to him.
2: Deep post. Salmons get it to him.
3: Jazz defense breaks down. Cousin never posts because they leave wide open lane for IT to the rim.
4: Deep post. Salmons has it but can’t get the angle. Passes to Ben who can’t either. Doesn’t touch it.
5: Deep post. Same as last time. Salmons can’t get it, goes to Ben who does get it to him. Easy bucket.
6: Deep post. Salmons has it but can’t get it to him, but Cousins is fouled fighting for position.
7: Deep post. Ben gets it to him.
8: Posts: Salmons gets it to him, but its 16ft from the basket.
GAME OVER
 
Last edited:
We got extremely lucky the refs carried us in that game, Jazz got so many bs calls against them and this is coming from a Kings fan. Now onto the good WE WON A CLOSE GAME!!!

#Mclemore nice to see him make a dagger after literally bricking every clutch shot this season, showed nice cuts and drives to the rim
#Cousins showed again maturity after being in foul trouble came back and was just being Godsins all over the Jazz big's it's a shame Favors did not play would have loved to see Godsins punish him as well.
#Williams I thought played very solid D on both Hayward and Jefferson both seemed to go off when he was not guarding them
#IT was just dynamite his tear drops were from heaven were splendid to watch
#JT and PPat did solid against a undermanned PF line up the Jazz had
#Hayes provided good mins
#Vasquez got outplayed by a rookie PG nothing new here it's same old same old let Vasquez bury us and Isaiah and Cousins dig us out.
#To much playing time for Salmons imo........
 
Great win for the team. this game kind of snapped me back to reality. there is something psychologically unhealthy about rooting against your team to win the game, and unfortunately I had gotten to that point with my desire for the top pick. After we won, I have come back to the healthy realization that you need to root for your players to succeed and what happens with the lottery this summer, happens.
 
A lot to be encouraged about. IT and Cuz were brilliant when they settled down in the 2nd half.53 points on 29 shots is amazing efficiency. McLemore's shot is still struggling, but it's not stopping him from developing. Biggest shot of his career, had several strong contests on defense, and chipped in 9 boards. I think we'll be seeing McLemore as a top 10 rebounding SG in the very near future. Williams was quite tonight, but he still made several nice plays on both ends. You can tell he's still in an adjustment period of moving teams. I can't imagine it's all that easy stepping into a completely new team and system during the season.

On the extremely negative side, Salmons, GV, Hayes, Thornton and Ppat combined for 7-32 shooting to score 22 points. Many of which were wide open looks
 
On the extremely negative side, Salmons, GV, Hayes, Thornton and Ppat combined for 7-32 shooting to score 22 points. Many of which were wide open looks

On the bright side 3 out of 5 of the players mentioned are expiring this year and the other two fall off next year.
 
A timely win. A real battery charger. Nice set up for my grandson who is going in my place to his first game of the season on Monday. Our should bask in the sun for once tomorrow.
 
On the bright side 3 out of 5 of the players mentioned are expiring this year and the other two fall off next year.

They shouldn't be playing healthy minutes. Ben and DWill should be given maximum minutes to shine. I imagine Landry will be phasing out PPat eventually.. Greivis, who doesn't look to be in our future, should not be taking minutes from Ray
 
They shouldn't be playing healthy minutes. Ben and DWill should be given maximum minutes to shine. I imagine Landry will be phasing out PPat eventually.. Greivis, who doesn't look to be in our future, should not be taking minutes from Ray
Leave it to Malone. I think he is doing a pretty good job.
 
I read a tweet that said the Kings were the only team with 2 players in the top 10 in PER.....every other player on the team had a PER below 15.....not that PER is a great stat but certainly tells a lot....as if we didn't know. Wish MT would make shots so that a team would want him in a deal.....right now he's killing the drill although to his credit, he appears to be working hard on defense and has tried to fit into the offense by moving the ball....in the beginning of the year he looked like he could care less.
 
I think that a lot of posters here think of "tank" as some kind of catch-all word (the way Hawaiians use "Da Kine"), and either don't understand or willfully disregard the fact that actual tanking not only requires a particular and deliberate set of circumstances, but also has nothing to do with the actual product on the court: the coaches aren't tanking, they're coaching for their next jobs. The players aren't tanking, they're playing for their next contracts.

Everybody involved in the basketball game, once the ball gets tossed is playing/coaching to win, not to lose. Now, there may or may not be some activity transpiring within the organization, at the executive level, which sets the team up to be less-than-equipped to win basketball games in the short term, but that has nothing to do with the 13+6 we see out on the sideline every night... But, some fans, who are rather less pedantic than I am, don't feel that it's necessary to articulate the distinctions between what is happening on the court, and what the front office may or may not be doing, and so they just wrap it up, all nice and neat, with the "T-word."

And then, there is probably also a non-zero number of fans who have convinced themselves that, because we're losing, we have to be tanking. Because, otherwise, we'd just be a ****y team, and they may not be able to face that.
I agree with all of this, but I still can't figure out why salmons gets heavy minutes night after night after night. Does he actually give us the best chance to win? Now, or in the future? Man, that's rough if that is true, and it might be.
 
To me, the most important player of last night's game was McLemore. Here's a kid who dribbles the ball off his foot in the waning moments of the previous game, which contributed to the loss. His response is to come back in this game to shoot the game winning shot. And he makes a spectacular running one-footed running jumper to the baseline that was also important in the victory. Also, nine rebounds from your two guard is not something you see very often in the NBA. I had McLemore as the most important player only because this game shows how much the Kings need that "third guy" in order to win. Cousins and IT are almost givens every night, but without a third guy this team just can't win.
 
I agree with all of this, but I still can't figure out why salmons gets heavy minutes night after night after night. Does he actually give us the best chance to win? Now, or in the future? Man, that's rough if that is true, and it might be.
It's pretty apparent Malone respects Salmons as a ball handler and a defender on a consistent and reliable basis. It's not rocket science.
 
It's pretty apparent Malone respects Salmons as a ball handler and a defender on a consistent and reliable basis. It's not rocket science.

Oh right, Johnny is part of the depth we hear so much about. Glad a genius like you is around to explain that to a rube like me.

Salmons is a reliable sub 40% shooter, I'll give you that. His defense was pretty awful against Jefferson early in that game. And he shot 1-8. Is that justification for his minutes? Cause that's not even a bad game for him. Pretty usual.

Scouting report on salmons :can dribble. That's worth 25 mpg on this team.
 
Oh right, Johnny is part of the depth we hear so much about. Glad a genius like you is around to explain that to a rube like me.

Salmons is a reliable sub 40% shooter, I'll give you that. His defense was pretty awful against Jefferson early in that game. And he shot 1-8. Is that justification for his minutes? Cause that's not even a bad game for him. Pretty usual.

Scouting report on salmons :can dribble. That's worth 25 mpg on this team.
Apparently so unless you think Malone is an incompetent idiot. I certainly don't think so.
 
Apparently so unless you think Malone is an incompetent idiot. I certainly don't think so.
Petrie was the incompetent one in bringing salmons back. Malone is dealing the cards he's been dealt.

Most here would be glad if salmons never stepped on the court again in a kings uniform. It's the horrible stink of the,past regime that wafts off everything he does.
 
You're nuking it out. I said that Malone wasn't coaching to lose, I didn't say that Malone necessarily knows what he's doing, a hundred percent of the time. My WAG is that, like with Patterson, Malone is seeing something that Salmons is doing in practice that has him convinced that Salmons is the guy that he wants on the court in those situations. And that, for whatever reason or other, whatever that is has utterly failed to translate into a real game.
 
I think it's a mistake on malone's part to give salmons heavy minutes for a variety of reasons. That's not quite the same as calling him an incompetent idiot.

I didn't know blind allegiance to all things kings was necessary to be a fan. My bad. Some fans tend to be far more lenient toward the FO and coaching staff, falling back on "they know what they're doing, I trust them."

Let's remember, this coach, owner and FO have been in those positions for 18 nba games now, and for the first time, all of them rookies. They're not perfect. They'll make mistakes. Lots of them, especially Malone since he makes decisions that affect outcomes of games nightly. And with a very fine line between winning and losing, his inexperience will cost us games just like the players inexperience will. That's just reality, growing pains and all that. But blind faith? You're not gonna to see it from me. There's far too little to go on at this point in regards to the whole FO owner on down to the coach and assistants.
 
Petrie was the incompetent one in bringing salmons back. Malone is dealing the cards he's been dealt.

Most here would be glad if salmons never stepped on the court again in a kings uniform. It's the horrible stink of the,past regime that wafts off everything he does.
I think you are right on about what people on here think about Salmons. I've been here 4 years, I've read the posts. That's exactly why I speak up on Salmons from time to time. He may not be very good or a long term keeper but he is a helluva lot better than this board gives him credit for. This board treats him like **** if they treat him at all. How does he rank in minutes played?
 
I think you are right on about what people on here think about Salmons. I've been here 4 years, I've read the posts. That's exactly why I speak up on Salmons from time to time. He may not be very good or a long term keeper but he is a helluva lot better than this board gives him credit for. This board treats him like **** if they treat him at all. How does he rank in minutes played?
On the kings? He's in a group of 8 playing between 20 and 27 mpg, with cousins the only over 30.
 
The thing about Salmons right now is that he is our only remaining wing who can either a) defend, or b) dribble/create. And oh boy does he often suck. But at this point he's it, and he is a vet who knows what he is doing. Want to slow any SG/swingman down, he's your best hope. Need anybody else to create shots or feed Cousins in the post? He's it again. That's a bad sign for your team when those things are true. He should be more of a 10th-12th man versatile end of bench vet you can spot in or fill in for injuries. But for us he has distinct portfolios that basically nobody else on the team has right now. So he plays.
 
I think you are right on about what people on here think about Salmons. I've been here 4 years, I've read the posts. That's exactly why I speak up on Salmons from time to time. He may not be very good or a long term keeper but he is a helluva lot better than this board gives him credit for. This board treats him like **** if they treat him at all. How does he rank in minutes played?
If Salmons was any good he would be traded by now....expiring contract so it's not like he would be a long term investment for a team. Teams with playoff aspiration should all over him it would seem....but I doubt that any of the contenders think he could be the missing part.

Go look at his career stats. He had a 4 year stretch where he shot around 47% but its been 5 years since then and he's typically around 40%....if that. And continuing he's usually around 30 minutes per game in his career but averages less than a steal per game, doesn't rebound, has low assist totals, shoots the 3 at a rather low %.... But plays decent defense but is certainly no Mbah a Moute type defender.

Honestly have a hard time thinking of a worse SF getting 28-30 minutes per game. I think most on the board are spot on on what he brings....I think he plays until we move him or it becomes apparent that we can't trade him.

I don't know if Dzwill is the answer at SF or not but Salmons getting this amount of minutes is a huge reason the team has a terrible record over the years....he's been one of the least effective starting SFs around for awhile.
 
That salmons is actually the best and only option to accomplish some very basic basketball plays is quite a sad state.
 
If Salmons was any good he would be traded by now....expiring contract so it's not like he would be a long term investment for a team. Teams with playoff aspiration should all over him it would seem....but I doubt that any of the contenders think he could be the missing part.

Go look at his career stats. He had a 4 year stretch where he shot around 47% but its been 5 years since then and he's typically around 40%....if that. And continuing he's usually around 30 minutes per game in his career but averages less than a steal per game, doesn't rebound, has low assist totals, shoots the 3 at a rather low %.... But plays decent defense but is certainly no Mbah a Moute type defender.

Honestly have a hard time thinking of a worse SF getting 28-30 minutes per game. I think most on the board are spot on on what he brings....I think he plays until we move him or it becomes apparent that we can't trade him.

I don't know if Dzwill is the answer at SF or not but Salmons getting this amount of minutes is a huge reason the team has a terrible record over the years....he's been one of the least effective starting SFs around for awhile.
Look at his stats this year compared to his teammates. It paints a significantly different picture than you do. Not real great but not as you put forth. Just do it.
 
If Salmons was any good he would be traded by now....expiring contract so it's not like he would be a long term investment for a team. Teams with playoff aspiration should all over him it would seem....but I doubt that any of the contenders think he could be the missing part.

Go look at his career stats. He had a 4 year stretch where he shot around 47% but its been 5 years since then and he's typically around 40%....if that. And continuing he's usually around 30 minutes per game in his career but averages less than a steal per game, doesn't rebound, has low assist totals, shoots the 3 at a rather low %.... But plays decent defense but is certainly no Mbah a Moute type defender.

Honestly have a hard time thinking of a worse SF getting 28-30 minutes per game. I think most on the board are spot on on what he brings....I think he plays until we move him or it becomes apparent that we can't trade him.

I don't know if Dzwill is the answer at SF or not but Salmons getting this amount of minutes is a huge reason the team has a terrible record over the years....he's been one of the least effective starting SFs around for awhile.
Worse statistically than john is tayshaun prince. Another aging vet. That's about it.

We know we can't trade him, nor would I think they'd want to at this point. His expiring is worth as much to us, right?
 
Back
Top