[Grades] Grades v. Jazz 11/22/10
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
L
LWP777
Guest
I've said this in some of my other posts, but I'll say it again. We are NOT talented. It's as simple as that. We can sit here and analyze the team to death but the fact is we're going to win somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 games. Sure we have a couple of nice pieces in Evans and Cousins, but what really has killed this franchise is the mediocrity of our first round draft picks in the past 4 years or so:
Greene
Thompson
Hawes (traded for Sammy)
Casspi
None of these guys will ever be anything more than a mediocre role player in the NBA. If 1 or 2 of them would have developed into solid, upper echelon NBA players then we would have something working. Right now, we have two 20 year olds who have talent and a bunch of scrubs after that. Really a lot of the blame could be placed on the owners and possibly GP for not realizing sooner that we needed to rebuild 4 years ago. Instead, we had a team that won 35ish games, who never had a chance of even really making the playoffs, and got us lottery picks in the 10-13 range. We could have had a Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook type of a player on our team right now. Instead we have Jason Thompson and Sammy D as a result of those drafts.
It's sad.....
Greene
Thompson
Hawes (traded for Sammy)
Casspi
None of these guys will ever be anything more than a mediocre role player in the NBA. If 1 or 2 of them would have developed into solid, upper echelon NBA players then we would have something working. Right now, we have two 20 year olds who have talent and a bunch of scrubs after that. Really a lot of the blame could be placed on the owners and possibly GP for not realizing sooner that we needed to rebuild 4 years ago. Instead, we had a team that won 35ish games, who never had a chance of even really making the playoffs, and got us lottery picks in the 10-13 range. We could have had a Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook type of a player on our team right now. Instead we have Jason Thompson and Sammy D as a result of those drafts.
It's sad.....
Even the Utah announcers commented on that. We have one play:
1) get ball.
2) spend some time dribbling (optional).
3) shoot ball if open; if not, look for someone to pass to.
Maybe I'm making too much of it, since nobody can actually hit a shot anyway, but I couldn't help but be jealous when Utah had 2 seconds on the shot clock, inbounded, and easily scored on us using a play Sloan's had them running for the last 20 years. Why can't we do stuff like that?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That's a silly argumnet -- if we had Wstbrook or Rose, we wouldn't have Reke or Cousins. OUr gravy train came in, just a couple of years later than it should. And now we are innthe early stages of turnaround.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
getting the rest of these up now -- ran out of battery power and had left the cord at home
Gabriel
G-League
you really need to lighten up.
Anyways, Something is wrong with tyreke. that's painfully obvious.
IfAt1st
Starter
IfAt1st
Starter
Brick -
On the surface, the grades don't seem that off, with C- for Landry, D- for Beno, and D+ for JT.
The problem is, they are overlooking a lot of real problems (with JT) and dismissing some good aspects of Landry and Beno's games.
Let me relate my notes from the 2nd quarter and see if your observations jive with mine, and then address your grades:
I think everyone can agree that the Kings lost the game in the 2nd qtr, right?
So 1st most important fact - Landry was ON THE BENCH in the time when the Jazz got to their big lead. Let me state it another way - Landry was not playing when the Kings lost the lead, never to get it back. He left after the 1st qtr, Kings up 22-20, he scored EIGHT points and was just about all the Kings had on offense. JT went in, and by the time Landry got back in the game, the Kings were down big and never recovered.
So let's look really close at those critical minutes when JT was in:
Around the 10:00 minute mark in the 2nd qtr, the Kings were up 24-22 and Beno penetrated the Jazz defense (past those "super-quick guards") and found DMC for a wide-open 12 ft shot. DMC missed. The Jazz went back, and the following play ensued:
DMC was slow to get back, but muscled back in the play as the Jazz missed 2 shots. JT had the entire right side of the basket as his - his man was behind him, OUT OF BOUNDS, and JT chose to stay behind the basket "blocking his man out" instead of going to the open side of the basket. Of course, the ball bounced right where he should have been, and the Jazz little guard got it - but he missed the shot. JT even blatantly pushed the guy as he shot (no foul called) which sent the guard flying up the key. On the THIRD missed rebound, the Jazz player tried the putback and missed. Guess what JT did? That's right - AGAIN pushed his forearm out, jabbing the guy weakly in the back as he shot, giving them FT's.
But the suckitude by the Kings on that one play didn't stop there - BOTH Cisco AND Omri chose to hover at the top of the key, waiting to leak out instead of banging the boards to secure the RBD. If Omri and Cisco are both going to be playing, they cannot both act like selfish, non-rebounders who are both looking to be passed to for the easy breakaway dunk.
Beno unfortunately missed 2 wide open 3 ptrs, but they were good plays.
Then Beno had 2 TO's against a REALLY aggressive, arm-slapping Jazz defense that each could have been called reach-in fouls.
Then JT set a moving screen (wasn't called), didn't get the ORBD on consecutive plays (and wasn't even in position to try even though he wasn't in the play).
He then got an ORBD when he was out of position - the ball clanged the rim and bounced over the defense into his hands.
Then JT got scored over twice by CJ Miles on the switches you mentioned.
Then JT set another moving screen (again, not called but was lucky considering how many moving screens they later called that night).
Then Beno penetrated, taking THREE Jazz defenders with him, opening up the entire rt side of the key where JT was standing. JT was standing one step from the basket, and inexplicably took one more step forward (why? so that he could be standing UNDER the basket for some purpose?) as Beno handed it off to him. The ball bounced off JT's hands and he blew the easy dunk, turning it over. This led to a breakaway and a dunk by the Jazz on the other end, partially because Cisco stayed on the left corner the entire play, and never went back to defend even as JT was fumbling and fighting the Jazz for possession of the ball. This was the play you saw where Cisco didn't go back, I wager.
Then Beno overpenetrated because he may have been sick of his teammates not doing anything with his easy dishes, or because he was told by coach to. THREE reach-ins were not called by the Jazz on that play, which resulted in Beno getting blocked.
Cousins then lost Facenko which gave up a basket.
Then Beno penetrated and passed to an open Cousins who promptly travelled.
By this time, there was 6:46 left in the game, and the Kings were down 29-35 and were never close again.
The key with this detail is that Beno was doing everything he could on the court. He was regularly driving past the "quick defenders" and beating them, finding open teammates who didn't do anything to create their own shots or score. He had to go against the Jazz defense that was able to hack and reach in with impunity. He had NO screens being set whatsoever.
Meanwhile, JT in the same time period, according to you, gave "lots of effort" and that's OK by you? - you didn't grade him down on that section as much as you did Beno.
Here's a relevant stretch in the 4th, too:
JT caught Landry's bad miss (almost the exact same way DMC and Landry(?) once did earlier in the game) yet he didn't convert anything as they did - because he pulled the ball down to his waist before going up with it, and got rejected for his troubles. The guy is a 3rd year vet with plenty of NBA experience, yet he still makes the same bonehead plays that have been proven to be mistakes.
The play before that, he lost a defensive RBD off his hands, but still got the credit for the stat when another King secured it.
JT got a rebound after it bounced on the floor (ie not because he snatched it or was in good position) then proceeded to not pass it to the open streaking Luther Head - he dribbled it up and banged into Ronnie Price at halfcourt. This very often is called an offensive foul, but wasn't this time. JT got the benefit of a LOT more calls (and non-calls) then he usually did this game, BTW.
When he got gifted FT's on a questionable foul on the Jazz, he almost airballed the 1st FT, then missed the 2nd.
He later committed a lane violation on a FT, not even looking at the shooter - he got suckered in by the guy he was standing next to. Then argued with the official about it(?!)
Then JT later got stripped the only time he got the ball on the left elbow like Landry gets it, and proceeded to be stripped by the Jazz guard when he made his move, exactly like they'd been doing to Landry.
A later defensive RBD was wholly uncontested (noone on the entire area of the floor but him) and that dunk was uncontested by Price - they let him waltz in and dunk it.
So my point to writing this much detail in response to your grades is :
You appear to be giving JT a whole hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt, when he did almost nothing good for the team and on the contrary, did a heck of a lot of out-and-out mistakes that wasted opportunities or luckily were not called.
Meanwhile, you are crucifying Beno and Landry for having to pull the entire team's weight and carry the load of the playmaking when they are in. Landry doesn't get many plays called where he can drop off to another King who shoots the ball and he gets the assist. He has to make all of his plays by himself (and BTW - battled underneath for 3 precious offensive rebounds and converted each one into points, I believe). He was 5-for-12 and got the 2nd most points of any King.
Beno missed some good-looking shots, but always was putting pressure on the Jazz defense, got rooked by non-reach-in-calls, and set up teammates beautifully, who wasted the opportunities he provided them. Oh - he also inarguably played solid defense and wasn't lit up by his opposing man, despite your statement that Price raped him (paraphrased).
I just hope that this effort points out to you some potential bias you are spreading amongst KF's, and you look with a more critical eye at guys who are getting a free pass by you (JT) and be more fair about guys who are getting crucified by you for every Kings downfall (Landry and Beno).
Again, keep up the otherwise-good work, and thanks for the girls theme!
On the surface, the grades don't seem that off, with C- for Landry, D- for Beno, and D+ for JT.
The problem is, they are overlooking a lot of real problems (with JT) and dismissing some good aspects of Landry and Beno's games.
Let me relate my notes from the 2nd quarter and see if your observations jive with mine, and then address your grades:
I think everyone can agree that the Kings lost the game in the 2nd qtr, right?
So 1st most important fact - Landry was ON THE BENCH in the time when the Jazz got to their big lead. Let me state it another way - Landry was not playing when the Kings lost the lead, never to get it back. He left after the 1st qtr, Kings up 22-20, he scored EIGHT points and was just about all the Kings had on offense. JT went in, and by the time Landry got back in the game, the Kings were down big and never recovered.
So let's look really close at those critical minutes when JT was in:
Around the 10:00 minute mark in the 2nd qtr, the Kings were up 24-22 and Beno penetrated the Jazz defense (past those "super-quick guards") and found DMC for a wide-open 12 ft shot. DMC missed. The Jazz went back, and the following play ensued:
DMC was slow to get back, but muscled back in the play as the Jazz missed 2 shots. JT had the entire right side of the basket as his - his man was behind him, OUT OF BOUNDS, and JT chose to stay behind the basket "blocking his man out" instead of going to the open side of the basket. Of course, the ball bounced right where he should have been, and the Jazz little guard got it - but he missed the shot. JT even blatantly pushed the guy as he shot (no foul called) which sent the guard flying up the key. On the THIRD missed rebound, the Jazz player tried the putback and missed. Guess what JT did? That's right - AGAIN pushed his forearm out, jabbing the guy weakly in the back as he shot, giving them FT's.
But the suckitude by the Kings on that one play didn't stop there - BOTH Cisco AND Omri chose to hover at the top of the key, waiting to leak out instead of banging the boards to secure the RBD. If Omri and Cisco are both going to be playing, they cannot both act like selfish, non-rebounders who are both looking to be passed to for the easy breakaway dunk.
Beno unfortunately missed 2 wide open 3 ptrs, but they were good plays.
Then Beno had 2 TO's against a REALLY aggressive, arm-slapping Jazz defense that each could have been called reach-in fouls.
Then JT set a moving screen (wasn't called), didn't get the ORBD on consecutive plays (and wasn't even in position to try even though he wasn't in the play).
He then got an ORBD when he was out of position - the ball clanged the rim and bounced over the defense into his hands.
Then JT got scored over twice by CJ Miles on the switches you mentioned.
Then JT set another moving screen (again, not called but was lucky considering how many moving screens they later called that night).
Then Beno penetrated, taking THREE Jazz defenders with him, opening up the entire rt side of the key where JT was standing. JT was standing one step from the basket, and inexplicably took one more step forward (why? so that he could be standing UNDER the basket for some purpose?) as Beno handed it off to him. The ball bounced off JT's hands and he blew the easy dunk, turning it over. This led to a breakaway and a dunk by the Jazz on the other end, partially because Cisco stayed on the left corner the entire play, and never went back to defend even as JT was fumbling and fighting the Jazz for possession of the ball. This was the play you saw where Cisco didn't go back, I wager.
Then Beno overpenetrated because he may have been sick of his teammates not doing anything with his easy dishes, or because he was told by coach to. THREE reach-ins were not called by the Jazz on that play, which resulted in Beno getting blocked.
Cousins then lost Facenko which gave up a basket.
Then Beno penetrated and passed to an open Cousins who promptly travelled.
By this time, there was 6:46 left in the game, and the Kings were down 29-35 and were never close again.
The key with this detail is that Beno was doing everything he could on the court. He was regularly driving past the "quick defenders" and beating them, finding open teammates who didn't do anything to create their own shots or score. He had to go against the Jazz defense that was able to hack and reach in with impunity. He had NO screens being set whatsoever.
Meanwhile, JT in the same time period, according to you, gave "lots of effort" and that's OK by you? - you didn't grade him down on that section as much as you did Beno.
Here's a relevant stretch in the 4th, too:
JT caught Landry's bad miss (almost the exact same way DMC and Landry(?) once did earlier in the game) yet he didn't convert anything as they did - because he pulled the ball down to his waist before going up with it, and got rejected for his troubles. The guy is a 3rd year vet with plenty of NBA experience, yet he still makes the same bonehead plays that have been proven to be mistakes.
The play before that, he lost a defensive RBD off his hands, but still got the credit for the stat when another King secured it.
JT got a rebound after it bounced on the floor (ie not because he snatched it or was in good position) then proceeded to not pass it to the open streaking Luther Head - he dribbled it up and banged into Ronnie Price at halfcourt. This very often is called an offensive foul, but wasn't this time. JT got the benefit of a LOT more calls (and non-calls) then he usually did this game, BTW.
When he got gifted FT's on a questionable foul on the Jazz, he almost airballed the 1st FT, then missed the 2nd.
He later committed a lane violation on a FT, not even looking at the shooter - he got suckered in by the guy he was standing next to. Then argued with the official about it(?!)
Then JT later got stripped the only time he got the ball on the left elbow like Landry gets it, and proceeded to be stripped by the Jazz guard when he made his move, exactly like they'd been doing to Landry.
A later defensive RBD was wholly uncontested (noone on the entire area of the floor but him) and that dunk was uncontested by Price - they let him waltz in and dunk it.
So my point to writing this much detail in response to your grades is :
You appear to be giving JT a whole hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt, when he did almost nothing good for the team and on the contrary, did a heck of a lot of out-and-out mistakes that wasted opportunities or luckily were not called.
Meanwhile, you are crucifying Beno and Landry for having to pull the entire team's weight and carry the load of the playmaking when they are in. Landry doesn't get many plays called where he can drop off to another King who shoots the ball and he gets the assist. He has to make all of his plays by himself (and BTW - battled underneath for 3 precious offensive rebounds and converted each one into points, I believe). He was 5-for-12 and got the 2nd most points of any King.
Beno missed some good-looking shots, but always was putting pressure on the Jazz defense, got rooked by non-reach-in-calls, and set up teammates beautifully, who wasted the opportunities he provided them. Oh - he also inarguably played solid defense and wasn't lit up by his opposing man, despite your statement that Price raped him (paraphrased).
I just hope that this effort points out to you some potential bias you are spreading amongst KF's, and you look with a more critical eye at guys who are getting a free pass by you (JT) and be more fair about guys who are getting crucified by you for every Kings downfall (Landry and Beno).
Again, keep up the otherwise-good work, and thanks for the girls theme!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Uh no.
I think it has to do more with his hurt ankles than anything. He has had to repeatedly go to the locker room because of one or both ankles this season. Is a bit worrying since this seems to have started before Team USA training camp. Sore ankles affect everything, especially for a player whose entire game is about getting to the basket. You can tell the speed and lift are just not there. Unfortunately he needs time off to heal, and we simply can't afford to let him. Hopefully this does not become a long term problem.
L
LWP777
Guest
That's not necessarily true. Look at the Thunder. They drafted Durant and still had a horrible year then got Westbrook the next year. We didn't even really have a chance at those guys because we were on of the best non playoff teams. We also would have sped up the rebuild instead of winning 35 games with Bibby and Brad Miller.
I think everyone here agrees it was a mistake to not start the rebuild earlier, but as far as getting talent, you can't plan to start sucking at a specific year just because there might be a Durant in that draft (and I don't think many people knew Durant would be THIS good anyway). We got Tyreke, and still had a horrible year, so we got Cousins, just like the Thunder got Durant and Westbrook (of course, you can argue that Durant/Westbrook is better that Tyreke/DMC but it's still a matter of timing. It's not like we could've gotten all those guys). Actually, looks like we're in for another horrible season, so we are probably getting another top pick in June...
You can also look at it this way, maybe we are lucky we didn't suck this bad earlier - we could've been stuck with Oden...
Larry89
Disgruntled Kings Fan
I also remember one year we won a few games against the clippers down the stretch because of ron-ron's heroics which broke the tie in the race for draft picks, I think we got the 12th pick or 10th I cant recell and selected Spencer Hawes, With Joakim Noah being the player selected before
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I remember Petrie was going to draft Joakim if he fell to us, unfortunately, he got selected right before our pick at 9.
L
LWP777
Guest
Exactly. That was a huge bad beat for the franchise.
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