Grades v. Jazz 01/29/10

Who looked like the better young PF prospect tonight?

  • Jason Thompson (Age 24) [img]http://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/3462.jpg[/img]

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • Sean May (Age 25) [img]http://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/2776.jpg[/img]

    Votes: 4 4.7%
  • Jon Brockman (Age 22) [img]http://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/3966.jpg[/img]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paul Millsap (Age 24) [img]http://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/3015.jpg[/img]

    Votes: 43 50.0%
  • Keira Knightley (Age 24) [img]http://celebrityhunted.com/media/entity/Keira-Knightley_jpg_200x200_cr

    Votes: 38 44.2%

  • Total voters
    86

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Kevin 33, Reke 25....Team: 94pts. Again. Loss. Again.

Greene ( INC ) -- nothing before being replaced in the early going -- one ill advised shot, 4 minutes of time, and never returned to the game. Sacramento: we do player development right. :rolleyes:

Thompson ( D ) -- no progress on the slump front. Our 24 year old PF put up 7pts 4reb and 2ast before fouling out. Their 24 year old PF put up 32pts 14rebs 7ast. Advantage: Jazz. We, and he, were dead flat to start, so we replaced him with Brockman early on in this one. Started the 2nd quarter, tried to post Koufus, but got it smushed by Kirlilenko on the help. Another post move that was challenged and did not go. Lack of awareness up top and got the ball stripped. Led to immediate replacement by Brockman again. Returned later in the half and did a better job defensively and on the boards. Missed the open side jumper in the early third. Finally scored on a rainbow layup thing that just fell through. Little better in the early 3rd. Westphal kept on putting him back in the game though, maybe both for confidence reasons and because the other PFs were faring no better (Spencer was however, and I don't get that one). Struggles would have been more tolerable if he could have in any way ,shape or form contained Milsap. He could not. Down the stretch got fouled at the 3:15 mark and hit 1 of 2. O-board and follow of a Udoka missed three at the 2:30 mark, fouled out on an offensive foul trying to post at the 2:05 mark. Some bits of semi life here on offense, but just destroyed on the other end and on the glass, so no way to go higher than this.

Hawes ( B- ) -- couple of early boards, and did a nice job on the glass before the half. Another mopup hoop in the early third. Rarely involved, but when he was he did well. Faded in the third -- missed the wide open jumper on the little Reke dump. Then hesitated on a side jumper causing us to get a three second violation. And started chucking up bricked threes -- I swear I wish I knew what went on in Spencer's head sometimes. Or maybe not -- I wouldn't want to catch it. And...that was it. For whatever reason, despite being easily the most effective big we had on the night, he was done for the night as we largely smallballed from that point on out. Given that he was yanked only a few seconds after his final three point brick, he might have Fluttered himself right out of this one.

Martin ( A- ) -- here was the bounceback game that just had to be coming at some point. And in some ways maybe Kevin's best overall game of the season. Yes he scored 48 once early in the season, but tonight was maybe his best effort within the team concept (and yet again, as I have noted, we still could not score on his watch). Certainly his best job of working with Tyreke. You could say most of it was against NBDL level scrubs, but its not as if the main guys the Jazz had out are primarily known for their defense. Jazz started off with Price on him while they guarded Reke with Brewer (the OG), and it was maybe their most effective matchup against him, and one they should have stayed with. Charged into the lane for the pair of FTs for our first score at 7:28 (yes we started that slow). Missed by Reke stranding at the 3-pt line on the break. Was doing a good job swinging the ball around in the early going, of course the same trait which taken too far had resulted in a historicaly bad string of games for him. When the Jazz went to the bench for even scrubbier scrubs, finally saw a strong aggressive take at the end of the 1st, slashing hard and fast and not flopping around looking for the foul. Returned for a cheapie foul in mid 2nd, and was getting beat on defense repeatedly in the period as well. Got the +1 on the break when Price carelesly slapped him on the arm on the break -- never get that play. What do you hope to accomplish? Either slam him into the stands or keep your hands to yourself. Three on the break as Evans drew and kicked. Then another foul. Came on down the stretch of the half in his most aggressive offensive stretch in 4 games. Grabbed two boards to start the third, and on and off helped there all night. Then airballed his first second half three. Played better defense on an ineffective Price in the early 3rd. Rare for him open court steal one on one vs. Brewer leading to an open court layup (may actually have been a foul). Lost Brewer on a screen for the next one and then missed a wide open three. Started the 4th missing a pair of shots because he fell back into old habits and was too damn focused on drawing the foul ratehr than hitting the shot. Hit the standstill three when there was nobody to flop into on the break. Jumped into Korver for a foul along the baseline. Good pass to Reke in the post. Three on a pass back the other way from Reke in the high post. Drive and threw it over his head for the finsih to get us within 4 at 88-84. Got careless and picked by Gaines at the 4 miunte mark, and then fouled him trying to get it back. Hit another three courtesy of a Reke kickout at the 1:30 mark. Utah gave him the layup at the 15 second mark up by 7. And so there you have it. The bounceback game, and probably about as well rounded as you are going to see a Kevin game. And yet the team did not take the cue. Kevin played well, Reke played well. Everybody else was flat as they've been.

Evans ( B+ ) -- passing was a tad off early and repeatedly turrned it over on attempted kickouts as the Jazz stepped into the passing lanes. Added a travel trying to beart Brewer. Had several early steals, and ran a good break with Omri. Then went on the attack again and began attacking the hoop. Got careless and was picked in the open quart by superscrub somebodyortheother Gaines, went to the floor for the ball and hurt his hip. Still came back the other way with a power drive +1, but grimacing and holding his hip. Really went to war with Gaines and Price, banging his way inside again and again. Started the 3rd with a jumper. Then an aggressive take to draw the foul, but still gimping out there. 1 on 1 three rimmed out. Too many jumpers in the third, maybe hip related or maybe just settling. Back in in the 4th with the nice hesitation dribble on Millsap for the hoop. Took a pass from Kevin in the post, and then drove again courtesy of a Kevin pass for the foul. Hit in the mouth on defense at the 3:00 mark. Kicked the ball to Kevin for a three at the 1:30 mark. Next time down made the same drive, but this time the help defender did not leave Kevin, and Reke slammed inside to draw another foul. Looked like he was having trouble getting out of a chair at the 30 second mark and have to be a bit concerend for tommorow. Tough drive slamming into Brewer at the 25 second mark, but AK47 came over to block it and that was it for us. Strong game marred by some turnovers and too many dry jumpers for a stretch, and best he has worked with Kevin to date.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Bench

Casspi ( B- ) -- battled with AK47 in the post, but overpowered in there. Began to get out on the break and was scoring inside. Back out on the break again at the end of the half. Knocked down a jumper in the early 4th. Provided a little help on the glass, and a decent showing overall, but his minutes were mostly unremarkable.

Brockman ( C- ) -- we woke up after his insertion as he grabbed several boards. But from the start was having problems on defense as Millsap is skilled as well as thuggy and beat him with nifty on several occasions. Good hard foul on Millsap after returning in the third, but in general that was about all he did on the night -- rack up fouls, and get scored aroudn and over by Millsap.

May ( C ) -- outside jumper to start, tough d-board in traffic. But tried to post Ak47 and uh, no. Returned in the third and forgot about Okur on the peimeter as he hit a three. Tried to respond in kind, and uh, no. Traveled in the post in the early 4th. Hit the long jumper, but largely back to good ole scrubtastic Sean May from the opening weeks rather than super Sean of the last match.

Udrih ( D ) -- in at the end of the 1st, played some good defense on his first defensive possession, missed the desperation 30ft heave at the quarter buzzer. Taken advantage of defesnively in the early 2nd ...by somebodyortheother Gaines. No piints in the first half, and missed his first jumper after returning in the late 3rd. Another missed jumper at the end of the 3rd. Just nothing all game long on his way to a punchless 0-5. Could have and maybe should have been an F given the absolutel lack of production, but felt more invisible/irrelevant than totally awful.

Udoka ( C ) -- in at the end of the first, missed a corner three at the end of the quarter. Post over Korver in the early 2nd. Nice fake and drive to the hoop. Mugged Korver on a loose bal in the late 2nd, was not called, and scopped it up and went in for the kayup. Missed another open corner three with 1:00 to go in the third. Got the offenisve board of JTs missed FT at the 3:15 mark, but got the follow blocked. Missed another open three from the corner at the 2:30 mark. Able to score inside on soe otugh hoops, but the missed threes were all form his preffered spot in the corner, and all of them various degrees of open. Gotta hit those.

Nocioni ( C ) -- missed his first shot, but made a nice pass on the break to Casspi for the jam. Tipped an AK turnaround for the block. Generally played a solid support role as we began to surge in the late 2nd. Solid enough that he got the 3rd quarter start. Knocked in a three in the mid 3rd, missed a FT rebound to close the third, letting the jazz have the ball again. Cleaned u the Kevin miss and laid it in to start the 4th. Ton of second half minutes, but it was really about a little defense and a lot of staying out of the way, jusst for off the ball play with Reke and Kevin taking all the shots. Turned it over at the 3:30 mark and finsihed up a 5pt 2reb 2ast night on the bench after running most of the second half.

Notes:
yet another pair of lane violations -- its spreading like a virus. The two man offense resulted in a grand total of 94pts. Jazz tried to help us missing both FTs on the intentional foul at the 30 second mark, but it led nowhere.
 
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#4
Lack of IQ by Westphail is as well. Hawes finally starts to play well and he goes with a lineup of Reke/Martin/Ime/Noc/JT.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#5
I have a distinct feeling, we would have done better had we not decided to play Andres Nocioni, Omri Casspi, Sean May, and Ime Udoka at the Center position at various times in the game.
 
#7
Refs Suck, as expected.

Jason Thompson sucks, as usual. Seriously needs to shut the hell up and run down the court. I watched Kevin make a 3 and the whole time Jason Thompson couldn't give a rats *** about whats going on with the team, its all about him and the ref.

Outside of Kevin and Reke who played like they should, Kings look like a d-league team from the frozen side of hell.

U"joka" needs to understand that no matter how much he shoots wide open three's, he isn't going to make it. Unless of course he's having a kobe bryant night where he can't miss. Though, I've only seen 1 or 2 of those from him this year so I think its a safe bet to stop shooting them. Same goes for Nocioni.

Kevin and Reke showed they can actually be compatible. However its quite obvious that they need even more help. If your the Kings and two players have scored more than half of your points (They had 54 of 88 at one point), thats not good.

One of the most upsetting sequences in my mind was watching Beno just give up down 7 with 10 seconds to go. I know we had absolutely no shot, but I don't think thats what coach wanted

If we had a defense minded big man, this would've been a win. No question in my mind.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#8
I just want westphal to explain his reluctance to play donte and hawes
Me too. Hawes was very effective during his time out there and at least looked like he was trying to play something resembling defense when he was on the floor (whereas J.T. and Noce and any other "pf" we put out there decided to look at the hot chick in the third row whenever it was time to stop Millsap from shooting open J's or rebounding the ball). As for Greene, I'm still trying to figure out why Nocioni gets twenty or so minutes while Donte gets 4.
 
#10
I just want westphal to explain his reluctance to play donte and hawes
I was screaming at the TV wondering the same thing...along with why were we jacking up so many outside shots and not trying to get JT the ball, and create without the ball like we WERE the first 2 months of this season. Udoka didnt need to play as much tonight, Beno needed more shots, Hawes needed to be in, and so did Donte. Eh well, Bill Clinton sure coached another doozy for us tonight, eh?

 
#12
If we could get a trade that would bring a decent big man, and have kevin and Tyreke as our back court we could possible be good again, regardless of what all the kevin haters out there think.
 
#14
If we could get a trade that would bring a decent big man, and have kevin and Tyreke as our back court we could possible be good again, regardless of what all the kevin haters out there think.
I dont know what Westphal is thinking with his rotations right now...tonight was no exception...I think THAT is more of the issue than Kevin's shooting.
 
#15
If we could get a trade that would bring a decent big man, and have kevin and Tyreke as our back court we could possible be good again, regardless of what all the kevin haters out there think.
like somehow get something out of KT and noc. i still believe we can do well with tyreke and martin. 2 plays towards the end of the game proved what they could do. tyreke drives, pulls martin's man off of him, dishes to martin for a 3. next play, tyreke drives, martin's man stays on him this time, tyreke drives to the rim. our back court did well tonight. if anything, this loss is on our front court
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
kevin and reke combining for 58 pts off of 32 shots on the road. ill take that any day.

We scored 94.

And I again want to challenge anybody out there, where have you seen a non-run n' gun team win anything with a pair of 20pt scorers in the backcourt, neither of whom is a pure PG? In fact you can throw in the run n' gun teams since no run n' gun team has ever won anything. Don't waste your time, I've already done the research.

Kevin and Reke played very well together tonight. They did well. But in the process nobody else got any shots and we froze out the whole team. There are about 60 years of collected NBA wisdom explaining why this has not worked. Maybe the only way to make it work is to fly entirely in the face of our franchise philosophy, treat "Rekevin" as a two man Iverson, and surround them with 10 defensive specialists who neither can nor want to score, and try to win games 92-88 every night.
 
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#17
We scored 94.

And I again want to challenge anybody out there, where have you seen a non-run n' gun team win anything with a pair of 20pt scorers in the backcourt, neither of whom is a pure PG? In fact you can throw in the run n' gun teams since no run n' gun team has ever won anything. Don't waste your time, I've already done the research.

Kevin and Reke played very well together tonight. They did well. But in the process nobody else got any shots and we froze out the whole team. There are about 60 years of collected NBA wisdom explaining why this has not worked. Maybe the only way to make it work is to fly entirely in the face of our franchise philosophy, treat "Rekevin" as a two man Iverson, and surround them with 10 defensive specialists who neither can nor want to score, and try to win games 92-88 every night.
Eh I think we would've won this game if we had had anybody who could play D in the paint, they hadn't gotten a bunch of rebounds over us, and we had a legit guy in the paint.
 
#18
We scored 94.

And I again want to challenge anybody out there, where have you seen a non-run n' gun team win anything with a pair of 20pt scorers in the backcourt, neither of whom is a pure PG? In fact you can throw in the run n' gun teams since no run n' gun team has ever won anything. Don't waste your time, I've already done the research.
You are correct. these line-ups can work very well in college BB, but they do not work with a pooh in the NBA.

We need a trade.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#19
Eh I think we would've won this game if we had had anybody who could play D in the paint, they hadn't gotten a bunch of rebounds over us, and we had a legit guy in the paint.
Sure thing. While scoring 94 points against a crippled team.

We could have won with an enormous rebounding or defensive effort, but it wouldn't change the fact our offense was awful again. If you win 94-90 do you say, ooh, that offense sure was clicking?

Here's another way to win: have serious frontcourt problems, let the other team score 99 (which they did in the November matchup), but have an offense that can score 104, not 94.
 
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Kingster

Hall of Famer
#20
We scored 94.

And I again want to challenge anybody out there, where have you seen a non-run n' gun team win anything with a pair of 20pt scorers in the backcourt, neither of whom is a pure PG? In fact you can throw in the run n' gun teams since no run n' gun team has ever won anything. Don't waste your time, I've already done the research.

Kevin and Reke played very well together tonight. They did well. But in the process nobody else got any shots and we froze out the whole team. There are about 60 years of collected NBA wisdom explaining why this has not worked. Maybe the only way to make it work is to fly entirely in the face of our franchise philosophy, treat "Rekevin" as a two man Iverson, and surround them with 10 defensive specialists who neither can nor want to score, and try to win games 92-88 every night.
Other players got shots. They just didn't make them. I think the guards looked pretty good together tonight. They sure didn't lose the game because of the guards. They lost it because they couldn't stop Millsap. He was the dominator.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#21
Other players got shots. They just didn't make them. I think the guards looked pretty good together tonight. They sure didn't lose the game because of the guards. They lost it because they couldn't stop Millsap. He was the dominator.

They lost it because they scored 94pts. We actually gave up the same number of points to them the last time we faced them. The difference was we could score then. And yes the guards did look goiod together. That's the problem. Its systemic problem -- even when working well together, the structure itself has never been proven to work in the entire history of the NBA. That's not hyperbole. I checked. Never. Ever. The only 20pt backcourt pairings in NBA history a) did not win big, and b) involved either a 10assist type PG as one of them, or a pair of 6-7+ assist combo guys working in tandem. The obvious concern/impact being to try to keep everybody else at least slightly involved.

And as for shots, nobody else got more than 8, and that was JT. There were a grand total of 2 FTs shot by anybody else. They weren't involved. Factoring in the FTs as I recollect them (i.e. not counting +1s) Kevin tookk 21 shots, and Reke 20. 41 between the two. 36 divied up between the other 9 guys. And frankly that is the way it works on two man teams -- go check the old Shaq n Kobe Lakers stats. But your two people better be a lot better than ours at getting eveybody involved, they better not both be guards, and they better be HOFs. And then the rest of your guys better be defensive roleplayers.
 
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#22
Maybe the only way to make it work is to fly entirely in the face of our franchise philosophy, treat "Rekevin" as a two man Iverson, and surround them with 10 defensive specialists who neither can nor want to score, and try to win games 92-88 every night.

clearly we unleashed Rekevin to show the Jazz how much they need KMart and how little they need that Knicks draft pick! If there was a game for Kevin to shoot well this was the one.
 
#24
Sure thing. While scoring 94 points against a crippled team.

We could have won with an enormous rebounding or defensive effort, but it wouldn't change the fact our offense was awful again. If you win 94-90 do you say, ooh, that offense sure was clicking?

Here's another way to win: have serious frontcourt problems, let the other team score 99 (which they did in the November matchup), but have an offense that can score 104, not 94.
You know you can say that, and history shows you might have a good point, but for this specific game, we saw plenty of open looks for other guys, from Reke. He got plenty of open shots for other guys. We were 1-13 from downtown besides Kevin. A lot of Kevin's shots were on the break, and were when he was wide open. I don't really feel like his shots were shots that disrupted other guys honestly. That's different from the previous games where we WERE running a lot of plays for him and he wasn't producing. I think if we had a guy in the post to throw it in to, we get that 105 or whatever and they score a lot less points. If we had a Chris Kaman or whatever. But we don't.
 
#25
The knicks pick is going to be like 16th or 17th dude...:confused:

There is no way the Knicks make the playoffs even in the east. They would have to pass the Bulls which isn't going to happen ever ever ever.

That's a top twelve pick minimum in a draft loaded with talent and especially in size. More likely its a top 8 pick with a chance at being higher. I take that pick and the capspace savings in a heartbeat given the way KMart fits on this team.
 
#27
We scored 94.

And I again want to challenge anybody out there, where have you seen a non-run n' gun team win anything with a pair of 20pt scorers in the backcourt, neither of whom is a pure PG? In fact you can throw in the run n' gun teams since no run n' gun team has ever won anything. Don't waste your time, I've already done the research.

Kevin and Reke played very well together tonight. They did well. But in the process nobody else got any shots and we froze out the whole team. There are about 60 years of collected NBA wisdom explaining why this has not worked. Maybe the only way to make it work is to fly entirely in the face of our franchise philosophy, treat "Rekevin" as a two man Iverson, and surround them with 10 defensive specialists who neither can nor want to score, and try to win games 92-88 every night.
u make it seem like they were ball hogging and shooting all the shots. they combined for 50% shooting and shot less than half of the teams shots, barely over 30 shot attempts. Ive seen monta ellis shoot for over 30 shots for alil over 30 points by himself. if the frontline played any D or made a few more shots, things would have turned out differently. i know you're against this whole martin/evans pairing but i see this game as a positive step. yes they were without williams and boozer, but this still is a jazz team who won like 9 of their last 10, and are 19 and 6 at home vs a young, sliding kings team who play horrible on the road. they have other good players to step up. yet we still kept the game competative and i repeat if we got more play from our frontline, we could have won.
 
#28
Kings improved their play tonight. They were in the game most of the time. Second chance shots just came too easy for the Jazz. Brick, thanks for the history lesson but no thanks. Kings did better tonight. That's about all we can expect right now with this team. Just keep playing better.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#29
Well, at least Kevin is uppin that trade value.

I'm with Brick. Two guys taking turns shooting FTs isnt the way to get other players in the game. And even all defense playing roleplayers need to get a couple buckets to get their head in the game (see: Ben Wallace).

Should hopefully be an interesting month leading up to the deadline. Barring that, should be an interesting summer. I dont want Kevin on the Kings next season. I'll still root for him as a player, and follow him on whatever team he ends up on. Him + Reke = 1st round exit team at best.
 
#30
Me too. Hawes was very effective during his time out there and at least looked like he was trying to play something resembling defense when he was on the floor (whereas J.T. and Noce and any other "pf" we put out there decided to look at the hot chick in the third row whenever it was time to stop Millsap from shooting open J's or rebounding the ball). As for Greene, I'm still trying to figure out why Nocioni gets twenty or so minutes while Donte gets 4.
I think it has to do with the fact that they are trying to get rid of Nocioni and they need to play him to show prospective teams that he has game. Problem is every time he goes out there, his stock falls. Nocioni is pathetic. He does not fit the Kings style of play. I wish they could just wave him and use his money for a real power forward. Nocioni is just a small forward who never passes the ball ever. He could be triple teamed and he would jack up a shot before he passed to a wide open player. He is just pathetic. He tries to steal rebounds from his teammates just to pad his numbers! He just sucks and I'll be glad when the team dumps him. I wasn't very excited when they got stuck with him, and now I just want him to go away!!

Anyways, I think that once the trade deadline passes, hopefully the dead weight will be gone and Cisco will be back and playing well. The Kings need a big who can defend and rebound, because it seems that Hawes is too thin to win and JT is too busy arguing with the refs to pay attention to the game going on around him! If Brockman was 2-3 inches taller, he would start every night. I cant believe how badly JT has melted down. He went from a potential starter on the sophomore squad in the allstar freshman/sophomore game to a whining defensive liability who lost his jumper. It is pathetic to see him complain like he is a vet getting jobbed on the calls. He is a 2nd year player who is degenerating into a rookie nuisance who the refs will just kill every game because of his attitude. He has not had a decent game in a very long time. He should be happy he gets any playing time at all. If he doesn't wake up and start playing ball and shut his yap, he is going to ride the pine with a DNP-CD really soon! Especially as Evans/Martin starts to put it together and play well, the focus will be on the problems in the paint that the Kings have had all along.

I am hoping that Petrie somehow finds a defensive minded big who can guard the paint, block the occasional shot,and rebound the ball. We dont have a big than do any of those 3 things individually. If Petrie can find a player that can do all 3 pretty good, the Kings would be more successful than they are now. Teams are just beating up the Kings inside and the Kings cant stop them. Until they can find a player who will stand up and fight in the paint, the Kings will not be any good. I'm not sure the Kings have the bargaining chips to get a player like that. The Kings might just have to dump payroll and wait for the draft to get the big man they need. I mean really, who is out there that can rebound and defend that is available and wants to play for the Kings? And who can the Kings trade to bring a big that can rebound and/or defend ? Good Luck Mr. Petrie!!
 
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