[Grades] Grades v. Hornets 04/11/12

[JoMama]

The Cuz thing was rather intriguing...he's still a man-child and a serial sulker. Tyreke flubbed any chance we had at winning with his moronic "I'm-taking-over-the-game" routine in the final 2 minutes. Lowest B-Ball IQ in the NBA. Tyreke's grade: B

 

[Arkitect]

The Cuz thing was rather intriguing...he's still a man-child and a serial sulker. Tyreke flubbed any chance we had at winning with his moronic "I'm-taking-over-the-game" routine in the final 2 minutes. Lowest B-Ball IQ in the NBA. Tyreke's grade: B

You obviously haven't seen JaVale McGee play.

 

[rhythmless]

You obviously haven't seen JaVale McGee play.

No one above the age of 4 should take solace in having a higher ball iq than McGee.

 

[gunks]

That might help us get a win, perhaps?

JJ is gonna go for 30/10

 

[Bricklayer]

Public shaming? You guys are so sensitive. You pull a bull**** move, you get a bull**** result, you sit yourself down for a few minutes in time out. He wasn't benched for the game. He took a time out because he did something he shouldn't have. He came back. It's not a big deal.

But it IS a big deal, because it was a big deal to Cousins.

Everybody always wants to play the macho junior high coach sternly dishing out punsihments over the internet. But that's not how you manage people, and especially not prickly personalities like Cousins. Its got nothing to do with how I, you, or anyone else would respond to that benching (although I understand Cousins better than most I suspect (minus the sulking)). Its got everything to do with how COUSINS would respond to the benching, and of course how he DID respond to the benching. This isn't a theoretical exercise. Cousins is the personality Smart has to manage, not me, not you, certainly not some group of junior high kids who will submit to anything he says. And as Cousins relationship with his coach and his organization is the single most important one this organization has going forward, its absolutely critical that the coach "gets" him and knows when and how he can push, and when not.

Frankly I am surprised how tone deaf some people seem to be to Cousins' personality. Did you guys miss how he felt persecuted by Westphal? How he was thrown under the bus by Westphal thus only increasing that? Him telling Westphal "**** you" as he left Westphal's last game in Devner? Him feeling picked on and singled out by the refs? His feeling picked on by the media for his rep? His feeling disrespected by Donte passing the ball to Reke instead of him to the degree he starts a fight with his own teammate? The multiple times in the last month when he has tried to wave off the sideline when they wanted to take him out with foul trouble, and unhappy demeanor when they did anyway? How can you watch all that and not begin to get an inkling of the buttons you can't push with his guy?

This was a minor incident. But it could have been entirely avoided, and it became much more significant than it should have been for no reason at all. It was a single dumb play. Not even a selfish one as he was trying to pass. Just a dumb one. Would have been so easy to handle it quietly and have it go almost unnoted. Instead it possibly ends up costing you a game. Fortunate I suppose that we are in a lottery race rather than a playoff race.

 

[treach1976]

Frankly I am surprised how tone deaf some people seem to be to Cousins' personality. Did you guys miss how he felt persecuted by Westphal? How he was thrown under the bus by Westphal thus only increasing that? Him telling Westphal "**** you" as he left Westphal's last game in Devner? Him feeling picked on and singled out by the refs? His feeling picked on by the media for his rep? His feeling disrespected by Donte passing the ball to Reke instead of him to the degree he starts a fight with his own teammate? The multiple times in the last month when he has tried to wave off the sideline when they wanted to take him out with foul trouble, and unhappy demeanor when they did anyway? How can you watch all that and not begin to get an inkling of the buttons you can't push with his guy?

Point taken... And if Boogie is your man, perhaps this is how you have to deal with him... He is probably too rich and too caught up with himself to be molded by Smart or most any coach anyway. But given that, the guy you describe above, is that the guy that belongs on the team in the long run? How do we win with someone who has to be coddled to such a degree?

 

[Tetsujin]

Point taken... And if Boogie is your man, perhaps this is how you have to deal with him... He is probably too rich and too caught up with himself to be molded by Smart or most any coach anyway. But given that, the guy you describe above, is that the guy that belongs on the team in the long run? How do we win with someone who has to be coddled to such a degree?

You build your team around him. A player with Demarcus's skill set comes once in a generation. You don't worry about how he fits on the team but rather how the team fits around him. Basketball is unique in this aspect as compared to the other pro sports (aside from maybe hockey).

 

[mac]

I don't agree... I think that in this situation, what are going do to behind closed doors to a guy like Demarcus when he needs some correction. Maybe Smart wanted to simply bring him in to talk things over for a few minutes, but then Demarcus throws a baby fit.... So just because DeMarcus is a great talent, Keith is supposed to kiss his butt and lecture him alone in the office? Demarcus will have none of that. In my opinion, that's what helped turn LeBron into such a Diva.

Look, DMC is very much at fault here. But here's the deal. Cleveland isn't exactly patting themselves on the back right now going "Oh what a jolly good team we are now, why that James person sure made the wrong choice leaving! We really showed him eh? Look who's going to the NBA Finals now Mr Big Spoilt Baby!". I personally can't stand Lebron James. But give me a chance to have him on my team and I'll jump right on it. If you ask me, if the player brings you hopes of a championship, it doesn't matter that he's as spoilt as year-old milk. Sure we all hope to get someone nice and team-first like Duncan, but especially in a small market you better hold on to whatever star you can get. We're not like some big attractive team with stars queuing to sign contracts with us. Even if we potentially could get these stars, our GM probably wouldn't be competent enough to make aggressive moves to get them.

 

[UK_King]

I think it's a sad state of affairs when player power gets to such an extent where they can literally do anything without reproach.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing that DMC needs to be kept happy at all costs, i just think it's a sad state of affairs.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think it's a sad state of affairs when player power gets to such an extent where they can literally do anything without reproach.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing that DMC needs to be kept happy at all costs, i just think it's a sad state of affairs.

Lest we forget the "do anything" in this case was try to get too fancy throwing a single pass. Do you know how many minutes JWill would have played for the Kings if Adelman (noted personality management specialist btw) was benching him everytime he treid to get too fancy on a pass? Its not that benching somebody for that is totally inappropriate in all cases, but its certainly not such a severe breach of anything that your hand is forced regardless of other considerations.

And there is a difference between "without reproach", and in knowing how to deliver the message. This is an argument about whether when your wife puts on a few pounds, you tell her, "honey, you look like a cow, you need to quit stuffing your face" in front of a whole room of guests, or whether after the party has broken up you playfully pinch her belly and say the two of you need to start taking more walks together again. Same message, but one delivery is far wiser if you ever want to sleep in the same bed again.

 

[Spike]

This is an argument about whether when your wife puts on a few pounds, you tell her, "honey, you look like a cow, you need to quit stuffing your face" in front of a whole room of guests, or whether after the party has broken up you playfully pinch her belly and say the two of you need to start taking more walks together again. Same message, but one delivery is far wiser if you ever want to sleep in the same bed again.

I'm pretty sure neither cases work in the situation you've mentioned. The only winning move is not to play.

 

[UK_King]

Lest we forget the "do anything" in this case was try to get too fancy throwing a single pass. Do you know how many minutes JWill would have played for the Kings if Adelman (noted personality management specialist btw) was benching him everytime he treid to get too fancy on a pass? Its not that benching somebody for that is totally inappropriate in all cases, but its certainly not such a severe breach of anything that your hand is forced regardless of other considerations.

And there is a difference between "without reproach", and in knowing how to deliver the message. This is an argument about whether when your wife puts on a few pounds, you tell her, "honey, you look like a cow, you need to quit stuffing your face" in front of a whole room of guests, or whether after the party has broken up you playfully pinch her belly and say the two of you need to start taking more walks together again. Same message, but one delivery is far wiser if you ever want to sleep in the same bed again.

Well obviously i was referring to the wider issue of player power, i don't think dribbling behind the back is especially serious, that said, i don't think being taken to the bench for a few minutes is especially serious either.

There has to be some discipline and some acknowledgment of roles. J-Will was a guard noted for his flashy passing, DMC is a big man... the message, as i take it is, we don't need you doing that kind of thing, keep it simple. Whether it's a stern word or a couple of minutes on the bench shouldn't make any difference, at some point you have to acknowledge that the coach is the boss whether you like it or not, and if he doesn't want me dribbling behind the back, i won't dribble behind the back.

is it really that serious?

 

[mac]

Well obviously i was referring to the wider issue of player power, i don't think dribbling behind the back is especially serious, that said, i don't think being taken to the bench for a few minutes is especially serious either.

There has to be some discipline and some acknowledgment of roles. J-Will was a guard noted for his flashy passing, DMC is a big man... the message, as i take it is, we don't need you doing that kind of thing, keep it simple. Whether it's a stern word or a couple of minutes on the bench shouldn't make any difference, at some point you have to acknowledge that the coach is the boss whether you like it or not, and if he doesn't want me dribbling behind the back, i won't dribble behind the back.

is it really that serious?

I believe it was a behind the back pass. Not a dribble. So let's get that right. That's all.

 

[UK_King]

I'm even more angry now, a PASS?!. Time to sit this guy for GOOD!

 

[pshn80]

I think you guys are right. Throw a score away to be clever and cute and realllllllllll good and sit him. Not the way you play the game.

 

[Lockehead]

You build your team around him. A player with Demarcus's skill set comes once in a generation. You don't worry about how he fits on the team but rather how the team fits around him. Basketball is unique in this aspect as compared to the other pro sports (aside from maybe hockey).

I agree. I also think that's a big part in what makes Cousins unique for a player with his skillset. He doesn't force the others to play around him. He knows how he fits in the team, and he uses his abilities to help the others. It just so happens that he's our best player, and i think he knows that as well and plays accordingly.

More or less related to this topic, i think that's a problem with Reke. And to take it a bit further, Reke playing as a PG. We cant have everyone playing around Reke like we can with Demarcus. Reke needs to work his game to work around DMC, and the team for that matter.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think you guys are right. Throw a score away to be clever and cute and realllllllllll good and sit him. Not the way you play the game.

Indeed never, especially not in that paragon of basketball sanctity, Sacramento:

 

[Lockehead]

But it IS a big deal, because it was a big deal to Cousins.

Everybody always wants to play the macho junior high coach sternly dishing out punsihments over the internet. But that's not how you manage people, and especially not prickly personalities like Cousins. Its got nothing to do with how I, you, or anyone else would respond to that benching (although I understand Cousins better than most I suspect (minus the sulking)). Its got everything to do with how COUSINS would respond to the benching, and of course how he DID respond to the benching. This isn't a theoretical exercise. Cousins is the personality Smart has to manage, not me, not you, certainly not some group of junior high kids who will submit to anything he says. And as Cousins relationship with his coach and his organization is the single most important one this organization has going forward, its absolutely critical that the coach "gets" him and knows when and how he can push, and when not.

Frankly I am surprised how tone deaf some people seem to be to Cousins' personality. Did you guys miss how he felt persecuted by Westphal? How he was thrown under the bus by Westphal thus only increasing that? Him telling Westphal "**** you" as he left Westphal's last game in Devner? Him feeling picked on and singled out by the refs? His feeling picked on by the media for his rep? His feeling disrespected by Donte passing the ball to Reke instead of him to the degree he starts a fight with his own teammate? The multiple times in the last month when he has tried to wave off the sideline when they wanted to take him out with foul trouble, and unhappy demeanor when they did anyway? How can you watch all that and not begin to get an inkling of the buttons you can't push with his guy?

This was a minor incident. But it could have been entirely avoided, and it became much more significant than it should have been for no reason at all. It was a single dumb play. Not even a selfish one as he was trying to pass. Just a dumb one. Would have been so easy to handle it quietly and have it go almost unnoted. Instead it possibly ends up costing you a game. Fortunate I suppose that we are in a lottery race rather than a playoff race.

What Smart did may have been a bit extreme, but the reason is valid. If there's anyone on the Kings' staff, aside from the other players, who can have an effect on Cousins without instigating a negative response it's probably Coach Smart. I doubt Cousins will take serious offense to being pulled out of the game for that play.

 

[King Baller]

Missed the game. Loved the cover tunes.

 

[gunks]

What Smart did may have been a bit extreme, but the reason is valid. If there's anyone on the Kings' staff, aside from the other players, who can have an effect on Cousins without instigating a negative response it's probably Coach Smart. I doubt Cousins will take serious offense to being pulled out of the game for that play.

Especially because Smart, unlike Westphail, is a good communicator and a players coach. I'm pretty sure he and Cuz talked it out after the game and made everything peachy again.

 

[pshn80]

What Smart did may have been a bit extreme, but the reason is valid. If there's anyone on the Kings' staff, aside from the other players, who can have an effect on Cousins without instigating a negative response it's probably Coach Smart. a I doubt Cousins will take serious offense to being pulled out of the game for that ply.

I agree. Besides, Cousins loves to sit. Unfortunately Cousins is likely to get a kick out of it.

 

[rhythmless]

Lest we forget the "do anything" in this case was try to get too fancy throwing a single pass. Do you know how many minutes JWill would have played for the Kings if Adelman (noted personality management specialist btw) was benching him everytime he treid to get too fancy on a pass? Its not that benching somebody for that is totally inappropriate in all cases, but its certainly not such a severe breach of anything that your hand is forced regardless of other considerations.

And there is a difference between "without reproach", and in knowing how to deliver the message. This is an argument about whether when your wife puts on a few pounds, you tell her, "honey, you look like a cow, you need to quit stuffing your face" in front of a whole room of guests, or whether after the party has broken up you playfully pinch her belly and say the two of you need to start taking more walks together again. Same message, but one delivery is far wiser if you ever want to sleep in the same bed again.

Pretty sure both methods get you on the couch. At the very least, the bed will surely be used only as a sleep apparatus for the next few weeks with a belly pinch and mention of more exercise.

You seem to want to coddle him and walk on eggshells. If Smart benches everyone for showboat idiotic plays, then everyone should get benched. It was only for a few minutes. It was a timeout. Nothing's worse than having different rules for different players. You lose the entire team because no one respects you as a person, coach, or man. If Smart does it to one, he has to do it to all. Cousins can bristle at it, but he knows the boundaries, and he knows that's how Smart is. Smart can smooth it out behind closed doors, but publicly, if he bneches oen guy, he has to bench all guys for the same play.

You're preaching the "Lebron is my king, I'll let him walk all over me" philosophy. I'm not. He wasn't benched the entire game, he wasn't yelled at. He was taken out to think about what he did, just like everyone else would if they pulled that move. Your way may work in the short term, but you're just creating a player that believes hes larger than the coach, larger than the team. It only works temporarily. Westphal was different, in that he went for a power grab through desperation. Smart's just treating everyone fairly.

Look, I'll put it bluntly. If Cousins is "lost," then so be it. He's got great skill, but I don't want a franchise that walks on eggshells with their petulant star player and is at his mercy every single day. I don't want a diva. I want team players, and I'm prepared to wait for the next one in the draft, sitting at the bottom of the standings for another 7 years. I don't want a championship run with a guy I can't respect. Cousins is smart. Very smart. Also very talented. And also a little mischievous. You put those together and you get a guy who will push boundaries constnatly in the name of seeing how people tick and see what he can gain from it. You keep folding, and this guy will keep coming. Cousins works for the Kings, or not at all. But I'll be damned if I can root for a guy who demands special treatment at the expense of the team and franchise.

 

[Glenn]

This is getting silly. CWebb threw behind the back passes with regularity. This is no big feal unless we want to make it one. Cousins isn't demanding anything. That's a figment of someone's imagination. He's been a good guy all season and if not perfect, FAR better than I ever thought he was capable of. I have never heard him demand special treatment. Where is this coming from? Let's stick to facts and not fantasy.

 

[Bricklayer]

Look, I'll put it bluntly. If Cousins is "lost," then so be it. He's got great skill, but I don't want a franchise that walks on eggshells with their petulant star player and is at his mercy every single day. I don't want a diva. I want team players, and I'm prepared to wait for the next one in the draft, sitting at the bottom of the standings for another 7 years. I don't want a championship run with a guy I can't respect.

And there we very solidly depart.

But that's all vastly unrealistic anyway, and deep down you know it. If Charles Manson and 4 of his axe murderer buddies got paroled tommorow, and after working on their games for the past 40 years in prison are able to lead the Kings to a 60 win season and a championship, not only will the arena be packed but the most popular shirts in town will say 'Don't **** With Chuck!" on the front, and "Murderers Row" on back. There are very few human beings so despicable that people won't find reasons to root for them if they bring success with them. And an aversion to public chastisement is unlikely to rise to that level. Our Greatest Show on Court team featured a guy who took tens of thousands of dollars to play in college, a former crack dealer (who is now an assistant coach), a whipped guy who is now making porn movies with his psycho wife, another guy who cheats on his wife with porn star hookers, and a racist redneck who shaved his head to look like a skinhead. It DOES NOT MATTER.

the continung point would be that any personnel manager or leader of men who stubbornly sticks to a program wihtout taking into account the personalities of the men/women he/she leads, is neither smart nor inventive enough to be very successful at the job. Every individual responds differently. You've got to know how to motivate them, and how not to. Player X may crave discipline and jump when you yell at him. Player Y may punch you in the face if you try it. And BTW Smart knows this. You didn't see him flying off to have dinner meettings with all of the guys when he took over.

 

[Arkitect]

End of his 2nd season? When fans realize that a player isn't perfect so obviously he is useless to the team and must be replaced immediately.

 

[VF21]

Indeed never, especially not in that paragon of basketball sanctity, Sacramento:

Now that's what I'm talking about.

Watching JWill was always exciting.

 

[rhythmless]

And there we very solidly depart.

But that's all vastly unrealistic anyway, and deep down you know it. If Charles Manson and 4 of his axe murderer buddies got paroled tommorow, and after working on their games for the past 40 years in prison are able to lead the Kings to a 60 win season and a championship, not only will the arena be packed but the most popular shirts in town will say 'Don't **** With Chuck!" on the front, and "Murderers Row" on back. There are very few human beings so despicable that people won't find reasons to root for them if they bring success with them. And an aversion to public chastisement is unlikely to rise to that level. Our Greatest Show on Court team featured a guy who took tens of thousands of dollars to play in college, a former crack dealer (who is now an assistant coach), a whipped guy who is now making porn movies with his psycho wife, another guy who cheats on his wife with porn star hookers, and a racist redneck who shaved his head to look like a skinhead. It DOES NOT MATTER.

the continung point would be that any personnel manager or leader of men who stubbornly sticks to a program wihtout taking into account the personalities of the men/women he/she leads, is neither smart nor inventive enough to be very successful at the job. Every individual responds differently. You've got to know how to motivate them, and how not to. Player X may crave discipline and jump when you yell at him. Player Y may punch you in the face if you try it. And BTW Smart knows this. You didn't see him flying off to have dinner meettings with all of the guys when he took over.

You forge tthat there are 12 men on a team, and every one of them needs to contribute somehow to a winning team. Guys must fall in line and when there is preferential treatment on what is ok and what is not, then they will not respect the coach or the one being coddled. Manson might get you to the playoffs, but you won't win unless he is being supported by the players. You want to hand Manson a lollipop while flinging poop to the rest of your team, go ahead. But to expect them to develop championship chemistry as you do this? Your's is just as unrealistic.

Given what came out today, I guess were both unrealistic to even think about chemistry while this team gets jettisoned out of here.