Grades v. Heat 12/23

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Well, that was exciting. Or sucked. Or both. depends on how you look at it:

Peja ( B ) -- Peja started off the game assertively, but not particularly hot. Was helping on defense, aggressive (by Peja standards) on the glass. Was not in a real rhythm on offense, but overall felt like he was engaged and ready to play in a big game in the early going. But then he got very very quiet as we began to meltdown, and stayed that way for half the game. When he reawoke, it was the 4th quarter, and the game had turned into a war. Peja made his contributions therafter, hitting a number of shots including a huge three pointer to put us up with 35 seconds to go, and doing a nice job leading the break on one play with a nice setup for Bibby. Not sure how to grade a tale of two games for him, but call it a B for unusual aggressiveness and good timing late. NOTE: he was responsible for a few of the open looks that Eddie Jones knocked down, but Doug was the man on several of them too.
Webber ( B ) -- played a nearly flawless 1st quarter until a questionable decision in the last 30 seconds. Hit almost everything he shot, was making intelligent decisions. But wasn't showing much on the boards, and the gameplan clearly called for him to attack Miami's frontline with his offense rather than his passing. In the second quarter he began to cool off, and then headed to the bench for a long stretch. When he returned we were in trouble, and he was unable to turn the tide. In fact he kind of got swept up in it, taking quick shots, making shaky decisions. But in the third quarter, with the game starting to spin out of control, it was Webb as much as anyone who started to right the ship. Stepped up, started hitting shots again, made a brilliant pass to Tag. Was in the game down the stretch as the Kings fell apart, but neither had much of a hand in the collapse nor was able to do much to avert it. Was having to constantly try to double Shaq to help Brad, but no longer has the jumping ability to consistently bother the Big Lardbucket the way he once did. Desperation three at the buzzer did not even draw iron this time.
Miller ( C- ) -- this is a tough one. Played a very nice first quarter all across the board. Neutralized Shaq with his superior mobility, passed well. Put up a lot of numbers in a short period of time. But then he banged legs with Dwayne Wade, ended up with 15 stitches in the leg and sat out the rest of the half. And when he returned in the third Shaq just went right at him and obliterated him in there. Chased him from the game in about 5 minutes in the third, and Shaq's surge was a major part of Miami's first major durge of the half. Brad then sat for a very long time, and wasn't called on again until the final 5 minutes of the game. And the final stint was an utter disaster. We needed Tag in there to slow down Shaq and clog the middle. When Brad returned, so did Shaq's dominance, suddenly Wade was driving with authority, everything fell apart. And on the other end of the floor, whether it was the injury, the long stint onn the bench, simply not having it, whatever, Brad hurt us by repeatedly missing open jumpers. Hate to blame the injured guy, but truth be told, his second half effectiveness was probably something approaching an F. Nonetheless a strong first quarter and allowances for the injury dictate a higher grade.
Christie ( C+ ) -- in the first quarter, Doug had played a good game on the offensive side of the ball. Was aggressive and active...on offense. Points, assists, offensive rebounds...not dominant, but filled up the stat sheet. But in the second period he began to settle for open jumpers, and he missed them repeatedly. Worse yet, Doug was almost completely ineffective against Dwayne Wade and Eddie Jones. At the point he got ejected, I think the two of them combined were shooting 12-17. On this night at least, Mo Evans actually came in and did the better job of the defensive side of the ball. And then the ejection -- should not have happened. Doug had made a saavy play to draw a foul on Wade, Wade appeared to say something to him, he responded back, and they slapped them with double-Ts. Doug's second of the game and good bye. Should nto have been called. But Doug also should have been smarter. His loss did trigger a huge surge by us though. Evans came in with great energy, everyone else seemed inspired, the building came alive -- in some ways it may have even helped us. In some ways. Because after that point we were down to exactly zero backups for Mike. No rest for our PG at all.
Bibby ( B- ) -- tough one to grade. Thought in the first half Mike was putting up numbers, but was actually fairly shaky. Was making poor decisions of when to shoot, when to pass, forcing up bad shots. But then in the second half he calmed down and was a significant factor in our big rush, aside froma couple of failed alley opps to Evans that felt distinctly like garbagetime plays for Gerald Walalce. Did not control the game late down the stretch though when we needed it, and perimeter defense was again putrid, although he is getting too much heat for Damon Jones' dagger three to win it for the Heat (he was picked off on that play rather than lazy). Overall, 21pts 8ast 5rebs...and I'm not sure it was that good a game really.
Ostertag ( A- ) -- our new 6th man! Came in during the 2nd quarter and was playing well even as we were not. Was called upon again early in the third as a hyper-aggressive Shaq chased Brad right from the game. Initial results were not encouraging as Greg just flat out blew a number of rebounds for us and committed dumb fouls. Went through a really ppor stretch there. But then he rallied, as did the team, and from the late third to late fourth Tag got the better of Shaq, was all over the glass, and helped shut down the middle to the Heat. He was huge for us. The lone drawback being a Shaqlike performance from the FT stripe (some of which he was called upon to shoot because of the ejection) that in the end may have been the margin in the game. A huge late turning point in the game was when Rick decided to return with Brad Miller with about five minutes to go, and us up by 12. Brad had been sitting a LONG time, had the injury, and his return was a disaster for us. Shaq sprang to life, Wade drove the middle with impunity, Brad missed his shots, we lost. Five more Tag minutes might have wrapped this one up tonight.
Evans ( A ) -- for a night we had our replacement Bobby. Mo came in with enormous energy in this one and used his athleticism to tremendous effect on both ends of the floor. He and Tag played the best defense of the game for us, and Mo also came up with huge offensive reboudn after huge offensive rebound. I said this above, but I actually think that the Christie ejection may almost have HELPED us tonight, as it meant mo' Mo. :) Anyway, great game by Maurice. For a night our bench was fine. Now, can he duplicate that effort next time out? Because that is the trick -- Bobby gave us energy EVERY night. Tonight Mo filled his shoes admirably (as well as Doug's), But he's got to do it again on Sunday. And then again the game after that. We'll see.
Songaila ( B ) -- gave us a nice lift this time out. Only gets a B because I thought he made a couple of dumb plays mixed in with his energy. Actually was part of our first half collapse (we had several this game) -- was putting up numbers, but seemed scattered with the rest of the group. Late pariing with Webber was a mistake -- again should have been more Tag minutes. But gave us a nice stint in the second half, and helped us build what looked to be a commanding 12 p lead with less than 5 to go.

Adelman ( C- ) -- what a wild bizarre ride this one turned out to be. We came out like a finely tuned machine. The ball was flowing, we had a great gameplan and were executing it flawlessly. But things began to get shaky after Brad left with his injury, and in the second quarter the wheels starting coming off. That really carried over into the third, where at one point the Heat looked ready to run away with it. A bit distrubing, because at times during that long stretch our veteran squad looked something approaching panicked, running around without a plan, throwing up quick shots, looking like they'd never seen adversity before. But Rick called a great timeout to break the Heat's momentum, and we came out of it much steadier. Started running the offense again, closed the gap and retook the lead. After Brad was quickly forced to the bench by foul trouble guarding Shaq, and after Doug was ejected on a double T with Dwayne Wade, Tag and Mo Evans came off our bench and gave us a huge burst of energy and boardwork. And notably, Rick stuck with Tag for a long long time in the 4th. I kept waiting for him to go back to Brad, but he stuck with the big oaf and he responded. But then the wheels came off a second time. And this time it was fatal. Rick finally went with a fairly standard move, and reinserted Webb (who had only sat for a few minutes) and Brad (who was injured and had been sitting forever) for the closing minutes of the game with us up by 12, and the wheels fell off. Brad in particular was just not ready or able to contribute, but the team as a whole again lost its compusure, could not find open shots, did not know what to do. And I really felt Rick had a part in that. He designed the right gameplan. He helped turn the tide in the third. But late in the 4th, Rick gets a nice chunk of the blame himself this time out. We needed Tag, We needed compusure. We had neither. (as an aside, we actually ran out of timeouts, so at least Rick can't be accused of not using them).
 
#3
Nice grades, I love the Evans & Tag grades, they deserved them, both players combined for 18 boards (10 Offensive), I love Evans Play, kinda reminds me of someone else.....(Bobby),,,, and some of those dunks were sick I loved that put back slam:D
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#4
The team grade is very tough. We lost but we didn't play badly. We had horrible obstacles to overcome, primarily the gaping gash in Miller's leg and the loss of Christie. So, I give the team a B
 
#5
VF21 said:
The team grade is very tough. We lost but we didn't play badly. We had horrible obstacles to overcome, primarily the gaping gash in Miller's leg and the loss of Christie. So, I give the team a B
after seeing the total stats I agree.

At first I was upset but hey we out rebounded them with SHAQ!!! that is awesome.

We beat them in every catagory just not enough to win. After seeing the box score my tune has changed on tonights game
 
#6
Christie needs to play like he did the second half of last season for us to succeed this year. I know he's coming off injury, and I know he's a year older, but still, he IS Doug Christie, and if he says he can play like Doug Christie then dammit he should back it up. He's been a detriment on the offensive end this year...more so than any year in the past. He needs to freaking step up with Bobby out...he's what Webber was talking about as far as guys he wants to play with...what happened??
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#7
Yeah Adelman pulling Tag may have been a bad idea. Tag's always played Shaq as well as anybody. But Bibby collapsing into the paint and leaving Damon Jones open for three was a killer. I saw the replay and there was a hardly pick on Bibby, even if there was no pick he was too deep to get out in time.

It doesn't matter b/c we had 2 huge leads, shouldn't have been in the situation is the first place.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#8
Circa_1985_Fan said:
Christie needs to play like he did the second half of last season for us to succeed this year. I know he's coming off injury, and I know he's a year older, but still, he IS Doug Christie, and if he says he can play like Doug Christie then dammit he should back it up. He's been a detriment on the offensive end this year...more so than any year in the past. He needs to freaking step up with Bobby out...he's what Webber was talking about as far as guys he wants to play with...what happened??
It may be as simple as him just getting old. Happens to everybody sooner or latter, and Doug is at that age. Especially for an energy/quickness player like him, it'll hit hard.

We'll see whether he can recover during the second half the way he did last year (everybody thought he was washed up before the All-Star break that year too as I recall). But I am quite concerned. Its not just the offense, its the defense too. He has NOT consistently been a major factor for us this year. Think he's averaging about 1.2stls, the energy isn't always there. Truth is right now I value him more for his passing (extremely hard to replace from an OG) and leadership right now as much as the rest of his game.
 
#9
Bricklayer said:
It may be as simple as him just getting old. Happens to everybody sooner or latter, and Doug is at that age. Especially for an energy/quickness player like him, it'll hit hard.

We'll see whether he can recover during the second half the way he did last year (everybody thought he was washed up before the All-Star break that year too as I recall). But I am quite concerned. Its not just the offense, its the defense too. He has NOT consistently been a major factor for us this year. Think he's averaging about 1.2stls, the energy isn't always there. Truth is right now I value him more for his passing (extremely hard to replace from an OG) and leadership right now as much as the rest of his game.
Agreed...thats what I'm talking about. I'm not sure how much longer we should be patient with Doug this season, because of those reasons we both brought up. Suggestions?? Deals??
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#11
Circa_1985_Fan said:
Agreed...thats what I'm talking about. I'm not sure how much longer we should be patient with Doug this season, because of those reasons we both brought up. Suggestions?? Deals??
No idea really. I would be very anxious about how the team would react to losing Doug as a person and a leader, and I don't know where we would get a guy midseason who could give us the boost he does with his passing. Normally you have to pillage disapointing teams, but how much value does an aging Doug have to anybody except another eltie team looking for a veteran guard with leadership skills?

And especially with Bobby gone now, could we really afford to make a move and leave the team with only with veteran guard with extensive experience in the system in Bibby?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#12
Circa_1985_Fan said:
And I dont mean deals that involve trading Doug, specifically.
Oh. Oops. :)

Have mentioned before though, all our salary is tied up in or core guys. Makes it very hard for us to make significant moves to improve the team without breaking up the core and more or less tying to rebuild on the fly.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#13
Circa_1985_Fan said:
Christie needs to play like he did the second half of last season for us to succeed this year. I know he's coming off injury, and I know he's a year older, but still, he IS Doug Christie, and if he says he can play like Doug Christie then dammit he should back it up. He's been a detriment on the offensive end this year...more so than any year in the past. He needs to freaking step up with Bobby out...he's what Webber was talking about as far as guys he wants to play with...what happened??
I don't think he could step up from the locker room, where he sat after being ejected from the game.

He was playing hard tonight in the first quarter. The WHOLE BLEEPING TEAM stunk up the court in the second quarter. He was ejected in the third quarter. I don't see how he can be pegged for too much on this one...
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#14
VF21 said:
I don't think he could step up from the locker room, where he sat after being ejected from the game.

He was playing hard tonight in the first quarter. The WHOLE BLEEPING TEAM stunk up the court in the second quarter. He was ejected in the third quarter. I don't see how he can be pegged for too much on this one...
Its not this game. Its all season. Doug is just not consistently an impact player right now. And at his age, its entirely possible that's a permanent condition. If its temporary and he resurrects himself one more time, we still have our shot. If its NOT temporary and age and injuries have begun to effect him the way they do everybody sooner or later, we may be screwed. Its coming one of these years very soon now -- there are no 40 yr old defensive stoppers in basketball. Just a question of whether this is the year or not. Or I guess Circa's question was if it IS this year, what the heck do we do about it?
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#15
Oh... oops.

;)

I agree that Doug hasn't contributed in the same manner as he has in years past, but he has done some good things. I like him as an option at the point, which he at times seems to play better than Bibby. His tantem with Pedja is almost as good as watching Bibby and Webber. If the four of them ever get hot at the same time, it could get very interesting out there on the court!

I do believe he's still suffering somewhat from the plantar fasciitis. I just don't think you'll hear him complain about it.

I'll continue to believe he has enough left in the tank for one more shot at the brass ring. I know he believes it and I think, especially in his case, that will count for something. AND I think he and Webber know this count be their last shot. I have no doubt they will give it all they have and if they can get the same from the rest of the team, it just might be enough.
 
#16
What it comes down to is that we simply can't make stops when we need to. We were up by some 10-12 points with 4-5 mins left in the 4th and the Heat went on to win the game. That should not happen especially on our floor. After Pedja hit that three in the closing minute, we should have been able to make a stop, we didn't. Eventhough this was a really tough loss to swallow, i think there were some positives especially our rebounding and the play of Tag and Evans.
 
#17
Kings need perimeter D in the worst way. Trade Christie for Pietrus. GS would need to add Robinson for the salaries to match. I have no idea why the Warriors would do it, but Petrie needs to work his magic to make it happen.

By the way, why was Ostertag given a guaranteed $8 million contract when he's playing less than 10 mpg? Is he out of shape?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#18
KA_2 said:
Kings need perimeter D in the worst way. Trade Christie for Pietrus. GS would need to add Robinson for the salaries to match. I have no idea why the Warriors would do it, but Petrie needs to work his magic to make it happen.

By the way, why was Ostertag given a guaranteed $8 million contract when he's playing less than 10 mpg? Is he out of shape?
Tag has been playing great. He's also been playing more minutes of late. Remember like the man he replaced he missed all of training camp. $4 million a year for two years is not too much to pay your team's lone defensive presence on the interior. Especially since those skills will be amplified come playoff time.

P.S. Michael Pietrus can't hold Doug's jock, and that sort of trade is not an option. Doug is more than just defense. He is also passing, leadership etc. Pietrus is just a role player, and actually after watching tonight's game we may already have him on the roster going by the name of Evans. Problem is a role player isn't what we need. We need a major-minutes key the defense sort of complete player.
 
#19
Bricklayer said:
Tag has been playing great. He's also been playing more minutes of late. Remember like the man he replaced he missed all of training camp. $4 million a year for two years is not too much to pay your team's lone defensive presence on the interior. Especially since those skills will be amplified come playoff time.

P.S. Michael Pietrus can't hold Doug's jock, and that sort of trade is not an option. Doug is more than just defense. He is also passing, leadership etc. Pietrus is just a role player, and actually after watching tonight's game we may already have him on the roster going by the name of Evans. Problem is a role player isn't what we need. We need a major-minutes key the defense sort of complete player.
I think that evaluation of Pietrus might be a little premature. He hasn't received any sort of consistent minutes, and from what I've seen of him he is what DC was when DC was much younger -- a hyper athletic player that isn't afraid to hustle and get after it on the defensive end. It would certainly damage his ability to learn how to be more effective if the team had to trade DC to get him, but I'd be on board with the Kings acquiring that type of player this year. I will agree that no one the Kings can trade for will bring in the type of leadership that they would be losing if DC was traded.
 
#20
Since I didn't see the game or listen to the entire game, I don't have a complete picture of the entire game, but I have trouble giving CWebb a B for this game. First quarter was probably an A, but after that he shot 4 for 15 from the floor, which just doesn't make too much sense after starting out 7 for 9. Not to mention that he only grabbed 4 boards, which is just unacceptable for the Kings' PF.
 
#21
Very disappointing loss, but a fun game to watch nonetheless....for your non-homer fan (except for Doug's T and Brad's collision with Wade). It's just that the results sucked.

Losing BJ at this point in the season could very well slow down our momentum. If not for DC's ejection and Evans' "coming out" party - Mo grabbed 8 boards and scored 50% from the field for 12 points in 25 minutes - we might be crying a lot harder about this loss. I know I would be. :eek:

The game was like a nauseating roller coaster ride right up to the last play, filled with amusement, excitement and finally...fear! Web should not have been the one to take that last shot, but without a time out and only 1.7 (or something close to that) Web was the only one able to shake the defense. What else?

Still, I will be hurting over this loss all day, and it's Christmas Eve. Bummer.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#22
4cwebb said:
Since I didn't see the game or listen to the entire game, I don't have a complete picture of the entire game, but I have trouble giving CWebb a B for this game. First quarter was probably an A, but after that he shot 4 for 15 from the floor, which just doesn't make too much sense after starting out 7 for 9. Not to mention that he only grabbed 4 boards, which is just unacceptable for the Kings' PF.
It was timing as much as anything -- he was a major factor in leading us out of the darkness in the late 3rd/early 4th. Same deal with Peja -- he did his Casper the Ghost thing for a long time while we needed him there in the middle game, but he reemerged at the right time of the game.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#23
4cwebb said:
I think that evaluation of Pietrus might be a little premature. He hasn't received any sort of consistent minutes, and from what I've seen of him he is what DC was when DC was much younger -- a hyper athletic player that isn't afraid to hustle and get after it on the defensive end. It would certainly damage his ability to learn how to be more effective if the team had to trade DC to get him, but I'd be on board with the Kings acquiring that type of player this year. I will agree that no one the Kings can trade for will bring in the type of leadership that they would be losing if DC was traded.
He's actually getting consistent time this year. Here's what we know:

-- great athlete
-- cannot shoot a lick from ANYWHERE on the floor, that includes the FT stripe
-- not a passer
-- does not rebound much considering the athleticness
-- locks down his man, but not a disruptive TEAM defender. Gets very few steals or blocks.
-- he is scoring this year, through pure energy, no efficiency

Yes he's young, but its highly unlikely he's going to radically alter the entire nature of his game at this point, just get better at what he does. Best comparison might be to a more athletic Trenton Hassel. A guy that you might be able to bring in to lock down a single player, but who cannot even approach Doug's (former?) ability to make the whole team better through disruptive team defense, passing, etc. But if you can't pass, can't shoot, have no PG skills, you can't be a major minute OG in our system.

Now I will say that if we decided to tear the team down and rebuild, that is the sort of deal maybe you could look at for a Doug Christie -- get the young guy, hope he develops. But you cannot trade Doug for him straight up as a move to put you over the top. You are going the other way and are years if ever from Pietrus being a guy to give you the boost to put you over the top.

P.S. Doug came into the league already touted as a unique creative passing, long armed disruptive player. Took him a while to get it sorted out, but he was capable pf playing a full court game from the moment he arrived.
 
#24
OptimusRhyme said:
Nice grades, I love the Evans & Tag grades, they deserved them, both players combined for 18 boards (10 Offensive), I love Evans Play, kinda reminds me of someone else.....(Bobby),,,, and some of those dunks were sick I loved that put back slam:D
I agree...I thought the bench (Greg, Maurice, Darius) played better than the starters. Evan got 8 rebounds? 7 of them were offensive rebounds! Good work, Evans! :)

Fun game, tough loss. I'm ready for the Warriors!
 
#25
While were on the topic, I think Larry Hughes could be the guy. But again, good luck getting him wthout blowing up the team. Which wouldnt happen until the summer and following a major meltdown. For better or worse, we have to go to war with the army we have.

Sorry if the Rummy reference offended anyone, I know it's not the foxhole...
 
#26
Bricklayer said:
Tag has been playing great. He's also been playing more minutes of late. Remember like the man he replaced he missed all of training camp. $4 million a year for two years is not too much to pay your team's lone defensive presence on the interior. Especially since those skills will be amplified come playoff time.
Agreed. I used to doubt Tag, but now I see why they got him. He is the only real defensive guy we have in the interior. He may seem like a big oaf sometimes, but this guy can block shots and get rebounds. (I know this sounds stupid but my first realization of this was when I played NBA Live 2005 and he was blocking shots left and right...then I observed him more during our games and yeah, he still does have the "defensive presence".) As Brick said, these skills will be amplified come playoff time.
 
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