[Grades] Grades v. Heat 12/20/2013

Bigest defensive problem?

  • Scheme

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Talent

    Votes: 17 33.3%
  • Unfamiliarity

    Votes: 7 13.7%
  • Inexperince/Dumbness

    Votes: 19 37.3%
  • Effort

    Votes: 8 15.7%

  • Total voters
    51
  • Poll closed .
Moute was very good defender for the few games he was here. Nothing to go overboard about. For that you need a body of work.

He showed the same defensive talent and versatility that he has been known for his whole career. He made a reputation for himself with the Bucks, as one of the toughest guys to play against. Nothing changed in his talent and style after he began playing for us. So he already had a body of work that just continued on.

He's one of the few guys around the league who can change a team's defensive mindset and style, with how he leads as true 100% focused and skilled defender
 
He showed the same defensive talent and versatility that he has been known for his whole career. He made a reputation for himself with the Bucks, as one of the toughest guys to play against. Nothing changed in his talent and style after he began playing for us. So he already had a body of work that just continued on.

He's one of the few guys around the league who can change a team's defensive mindset and style, with how he leads as true 100% focused and skilled defender

Moute played in 9 total games for less than 20 minutes per game on average. Yes, he is a plus defender, but he spent the vast majority of his time in purple and black sitting on the bench. He wasn't defending anything from there.
 
hey, would you look at that, after last night's embarrassing loss, the kings now own the third-worst record in the nba. i've been beating the same drum since rudy gay arrived and isaiah thomas was reinserted into the starting lineup: a still-porous defense, a ball dominant starting lineup, and a woefully thin bench are a recipe for a top-5 pick. it doesn't matter how much of a talent upgrade gay is, and it doesn't matter how much "better" IT has been playing over the rest of the team's guards, neither fixes the problems that the kings had before the trade. in fact, it mostly exacerbates those problems. a follow-up trade (or two) before the deadline could correct some of it, but short of a christmas miracle or some new year's magic from PDA, the kings are bound to be in a position to snag one of jabari parker, andrew wiggins, marcus smart, dante exum, joel embiid, or julius randle. that's not the worst outcome for a team in transition in the middle of yet another lost season...
 
I'm still hoping Malone becomes the coach we all want him to be, but my doubts are rapidly increasing. They're not winning games, so why not plug in Ray Mac and send IT a message that if he doesn't want to put the effort in on D, then he can sit and watch with Jimmer. I'm a big IT fan, but watching him completely give up on his guy on almost every screen is inexcusable, and Malone shouldn't allow it on the floor... speaking of Jimmer, it's time for him to head overseas... and a lot of what I said about IT can also be said about DMC. His D would improve immensely if he just moved his feet and put his hands up. Don't remember ever seeing a center play with his hands down more than Cuz, not to mention his angry attitude is absolutely cancerous to the team... I believe a good coach can fix all of these issues, and as mentioned, I'm not giving up on Malone yet, but nothing can give JT a better chance at not getting pushed under the basket in his futile attempts at rebounding...
 
I'm still hoping Malone becomes the coach we all want him to be, but my doubts are rapidly increasing. They're not winning games, so why not plug in Ray Mac and send IT a message that if he doesn't want to put the effort in on D, then he can sit and watch with Jimmer. I'm a big IT fan, but watching him completely give up on his guy on almost every screen is inexcusable, and Malone shouldn't allow it on the floor... speaking of Jimmer, it's time for him to head overseas... and a lot of what I said about IT can also be said about DMC. His D would improve immensely if he just moved his feet and put his hands up. Don't remember ever seeing a center play with his hands down more than Cuz, not to mention his angry attitude is absolutely cancerous to the team... I believe a good coach can fix all of these issues, and as mentioned, I'm not giving up on Malone yet, but nothing can give JT a better chance at not getting pushed under the basket in his futile attempts at rebounding...

anger is not cancerous if it's directed properly. you'll notice how angry malone has been at the team's most recent effort. i consider it a positive if the coach and his franchise player are on the same page. demarcus cousins is the only member of the kings pulling his weight on a nightly basis. he's playing at an all-star caliber level in a brutally tough western conference, and his teammates are simply not providing him with the necessary support. despite his tremendous talent, cousins cannot do it all on his own, nor should he feel as if he needs to do it all on his own...
 
I'm still hoping Malone becomes the coach we all want him to be, but my doubts are rapidly increasing. They're not winning games, so why not plug in Ray Mac and send IT a message that if he doesn't want to put the effort in on D, then he can sit and watch with Jimmer. I'm a big IT fan, but watching him completely give up on his guy on almost every screen is inexcusable, and Malone shouldn't allow it on the floor... speaking of Jimmer, it's time for him to head overseas... and a lot of what I said about IT can also be said about DMC. His D would improve immensely if he just moved his feet and put his hands up. Don't remember ever seeing a center play with his hands down more than Cuz, not to mention his angry attitude is absolutely cancerous to the team... I believe a good coach can fix all of these issues, and as mentioned, I'm not giving up on Malone yet, but nothing can give JT a better chance at not getting pushed under the basket in his futile attempts at rebounding...
Cousins as the foundation of this team going forward, that decision, is the fly in Malone's being the defensive coach he really wants to be. To keep Cousins in the game he can't be allowed to do defense except for taking charges which he is very good at.

We, the fans, don't ask Cousins to play defense, the coach doesn't ask Cousins to play defense, in fact I'm sure the coach asks Cousins to not play defense. So Cousins doesn't leacve his feet, he doesn't raise his arms, he doesn't challenge becase he is told not to. He would be out of games permanently in the first half. So, DeMarcus, keep your hands to yourself, don't get in anybody's face, keep out of foul trouble.

I think if fouls for Cousins weren't a major concern for the coaches and the team Cousins could use the same talents that make hin a great shooter, mover to the basket, rebounder, passer, to be an outstanding defensive player. But he won't be asked or allowed to do so.

I think this is real and is the principle answer to this thread's question. It is not exactly Cousins' fault but his cornerstonehood is the major factor in our poor defense. The coaches support it, the other players know it and are asked to accept it, which makes it very, very hard for Malone and the team to be the defensive team Malone would want. Don't know what the answer is except maybe to make more personnel moves to shore things up in a backass-ward way and hope for the best.

This scenario if true as I think it is goes a long way to explaining lots of things besides why a defensive coach allows this situation to continue.
 
Does anyone else believe this quote invites the question: So why is it then the Kings didn't resign defensive players (Douglas/Aldrich), or trade away defensive players (Luc)? It makes me wonder whether there is a disagreement between Malone and the rest of Kings management on player personnel decisions.

Before the beginning of the season a few of us noted that the gm's moves didn't exactly agree with what coach wanted or said he wanted. First thing Malone said was he wanted to change the culture defensively and have a defensive minded team or something along those lines. Then Pete was hired and let go most of our defensive minded players. Some questioned it and were repeatedly shouted down to wait. After each move to not build a defensive team we were told to wait or just be happy we have a team. Too bad they never told us how long to wait. Don't get me wrong i still love this team and am happy they're here. I see a lit of promise in our team, but when some of us saw this conflict since the offseason, we weren't just crying or complaining cuz it was tdos. It was a real problem that we wanted to bring to everyone's attention. It is very hard to build a defensive team without some defensive minded players. A coach can't do it all. He needs some help from his gm. Lets just hope Malone can drill it into his team when they actually get practice time to turn our poor defensive players into at least mediocre and play some team defense.
 
I really don't get why everyone wants ray to play so much. He got 5 mins of garbage time and didnt look that good. Had a turnover when the ball was knocked away when he drove. Got caught by a pick and the heat scored when they switched. I mean he hasn't really shown anything. Yeah jimmer sucked last night. I mean really really bad. But he has shown flashes in garbage time. Maybe ray isn't playing cuz he isn't practicing well and not thriving when given those garbage minutes
 
After the moves the front office has made I expected to see improvement. I can see Rudy Gay and Williams have talent and I expected to see improvement with the team.

But after a few games I can see the moves (so far) don't make a lot of sense. We have three penetrating scorers, one rookie and one rebounder as starters. Not to mention we are very thin at guard.

We have a defensive minded coach who has been given a lot of offensive pieces but no defensive pieces. We hired a GM who appears to have a different philosophy from the HC. Coincidentally the GM did not hire the HC.

So what is going on? The only thing that makes sense is the GM has acquired pieces he intends to trade for draft picks or other players.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious but I think we need to be more patient. I think it is too soon to be very critical of the HC as he has not been given an ideal situation to work with.

I'm looking forward to more moves.
 
I really don't get why everyone wants ray to play so much. He got 5 mins of garbage time and didnt look that good. Had a turnover when the ball was knocked away when he drove. Got caught by a pick and the heat scored when they switched. I mean he hasn't really shown anything. Yeah jimmer sucked last night. I mean really really bad. But he has shown flashes in garbage time. Maybe ray isn't playing cuz he isn't practicing well and not thriving when given those garbage minutes
Potential and ill-fitting parts ahead of him. Human nature to hope for the best.
 
After the moves the front office has made I expected to see improvement. I can see Rudy Gay and Williams have talent and I expected to see improvement with the team.

But after a few games I can see the moves (so far) don't make a lot of sense. We have three penetrating scorers, one rookie and one rebounder as starters. Not to mention we are very thin at guard.

We have a defensive minded coach who has been given a lot of offensive pieces but no defensive pieces. We hired a GM who appears to have a different philosophy from the HC. Coincidentally the GM did not hire the HC.

So what is going on? The only thing that makes sense is the GM has acquired pieces he intends to trade for draft picks or other players.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious but I think we need to be more patient. I think it is too soon to be very critical of the HC as he has not been given an ideal situation to work with.

I'm looking forward to more moves.

close. i'd offer simply that the new regime was handed a crap team, and now they're trying to replace the various spare parts of that crap team with more talented parts. in their inaugural offseason, they let tyreke evans, one of their very few quality assets, walk in free agency. they didn't want to match what new orleans was offering, and that's fine. but ever since that decision was made they've been scrambling to acquire just about any player that represents a "talent upgrade" over the many turds that were left on the roster. honestly, i'm not convinced that ranadive/d'allesandro are giving any consideration to whether or not the pieces actually "fit." at this point, i don't think they care; they just want to have greater future flexibility than they had at the outset. such a strategy, indeed, requires patience on the part of kings fans. many of us knew that the playoffs were well out of reach long before the season began. this team is simply a mess, and management has considerable work to do to give it shape...

coach is certainly frustrated with the imbalanced, non-defensive roster he's working with, but he, too, must be patient. the kings are very likely to end up with the kind of draft position that will allow them to acquire a potential impact player. then you move forward with a core of cousins/'14 draft pick/mclemore and possibly rudy gay. but if you draft jabari parker or andrew wiggins, you can move rudy gay's enormous ending contract for complementary pieces (if he's not traded before then). if you draft marcus smart or dante exum, then isaiah thomas could likely be re-signed at a reasonable 6th man's salary (if he's not traded before then). if you draft joel embiid or julius randle, then other moves will need to be made, but there is flexibility going forward in any instance, as long as the kings land a top-6 pick, which is hardly out of the realm of possibility. i'd damn near call it a likelihood, if the team's defense continues to perform so poorly...

all of that said, the picture of "what's next?" becomes much clearer after the upcoming draft (or, i suppose, after any additional midseason trades occur before the upcoming deadline). but, as of this moment, the kings simply do not have the right combination of talent for the picture to look like anything other than the reflection offered by a funhouse mirror. it seems pretty obvious to me that management has no problem trading any king not named demarcus cousins or ben mclemore, so patience is required until either a trade or the draft reveal a player that can be considered a longterm member of the core of this team going forward...
 
Ya this team has been blown up. It is hard to comprehend the lost opportunities in the draft the last few years. Given the market here, it is critical we draft well.

I hope our coach works out. There is another named Carl out there who is not working.
 
The Kings still have had the 4th hardest schedule in the league. Not excusing them, just saying.

Also, with Malone and others publicly saying they desperately need some rim protection / interior defense ... maybe we revisit the Asik thing. I wouldn't call him a rim protector exactly, but he can block shots and lock down the paint with his size and rebounding while taking even fewer shots than JT.
 
Cousins as the foundation of this team going forward, that decision, is the fly in Malone's being the defensive coach he really wants to be. To keep Cousins in the game he can't be allowed to do defense except for taking charges which he is very good at.

We, the fans, don't ask Cousins to play defense, the coach doesn't ask Cousins to play defense, in fact I'm sure the coach asks Cousins to not play defense. So Cousins doesn't leacve his feet, he doesn't raise his arms, he doesn't challenge becase he is told not to. He would be out of games permanently in the first half. So, DeMarcus, keep your hands to yourself, don't get in anybody's face, keep out of foul trouble.

I think if fouls for Cousins weren't a major concern for the coaches and the team Cousins could use the same talents that make hin a great shooter, mover to the basket, rebounder, passer, to be an outstanding defensive player. But he won't be asked or allowed to do so.

I think this is real and is the principle answer to this thread's question. It is not exactly Cousins' fault but his cornerstonehood is the major factor in our poor defense. The coaches support it, the other players know it and are asked to accept it, which makes it very, very hard for Malone and the team to be the defensive team Malone would want. Don't know what the answer is except maybe to make more personnel moves to shore things up in a backass-ward way and hope for the best.

This scenario if true as I think it is goes a long way to explaining lots of things besides why a defensive coach allows this situation to continue.
It seems like Cousins is lazy on D, then you go look at the stats and Kings allow 101 ppp with him on the floor. Wanna know how many teams in the League defend better than 101 ppp allowed? Only 4 in the entire League. Can he do better? Obviously, as his mistakes are obvious quite a few times. Still his defense should be at the end of the list given his franchise status. If Kings want more defense, they should explore every other position first.
 
Cousins as the foundation of this team going forward, that decision, is the fly in Malone's being the defensive coach he really wants to be. To keep Cousins in the game he can't be allowed to do defense except for taking charges which he is very good at.

We, the fans, don't ask Cousins to play defense, the coach doesn't ask Cousins to play defense, in fact I'm sure the coach asks Cousins to not play defense. So Cousins doesn't leacve his feet, he doesn't raise his arms, he doesn't challenge becase he is told not to. He would be out of games permanently in the first half. So, DeMarcus, keep your hands to yourself, don't get in anybody's face, keep out of foul trouble.

I think if fouls for Cousins weren't a major concern for the coaches and the team Cousins could use the same talents that make hin a great shooter, mover to the basket, rebounder, passer, to be an outstanding defensive player. But he won't be asked or allowed to do so.

I think this is real and is the principle answer to this thread's question. It is not exactly Cousins' fault but his cornerstonehood is the major factor in our poor defense. The coaches support it, the other players know it and are asked to accept it, which makes it very, very hard for Malone and the team to be the defensive team Malone would want. Don't know what the answer is except maybe to make more personnel moves to shore things up in a backass-ward way and hope for the best.

This scenario if true as I think it is goes a long way to explaining lots of things besides why a defensive coach allows this situation to continue.

This. And I think the same applies to IT. Our PG depth is horrendous right now...We dont even have a backup PG. Jimmer shouldnt even be in the league and Ray hasnt shown anything that makes me think he is ready, even as a backup. If we're having to play IT 40+ minutes a game, while having him be a big part of the offense, he isnt going to have the energy to bring it on D either.

PDA still has a lot of work to do.
 
"Whats really going on with the Kings?"

I try to keep everything in perspective in regards to the new management. Cleaning up the mess left to them is no easy task and lets keep that in mind before throwing fits. I Agree with the way Evans was handled and the trades that followed and would not be suprised if another trade is made soon to posture us for NEXT season. Anyone who thought we would be competitive this year in the west is out of there mind.

Roster/Assets
  • Cousins is still learning and is already a beast.
  • Rudy is very talented but I don't get the impression he is in the long term plans going forward, I envision him being traded next season because his massive salary dump is very appealing to other GM's.
  • M16 appears as advertised, he's adjusting to a high learning curve but shows immense promise.
  • D-Will looks like a keeper but of course for the right return...
  • IT is the perfect spark off the bench and you gotta love his heart, that said we have play our hand well as it pertains to him.
  • Quincy Acy looks like he can be a contributor off the bench his game is almost completely based off hustle but thats okay for under a Million a year.
  • Jason Thompson IMO has Value around the league but needs the right situation as do many players to be at his best. In short TRADE HIM.
  • Landry is a good post scorer who has almost always been at his best off the bench and thats fine if we do indeed use him in that role However I'm very skeptical about that injury he supposedly suffered in the pre-season and would no be surprised if we signed him only to shop him.

I think the smartest move for us right now is to be a facilitating team in blockbuster trade which is very possible considering Asik, Melo, Lowry, Gasol, Randolph, Deng and the Cleveland Cavaliers are all potentially on the block where we can acquire talent for expiring or soon to be expiring contracts.
 
The Kings still have had the 4th hardest schedule in the league. Not excusing them, just saying.

Also, with Malone and others publicly saying they desperately need some rim protection / interior defense ... maybe we revisit the Asik thing. I wouldn't call him a rim protector exactly, but he can block shots and lock down the paint with his size and rebounding while taking even fewer shots than JT.

What do you mean by the 4th hardest schedule in the league? That's hard to imagine being that they have had 5 more home game than road even with them being at the end of a 4 game road trip.

I can't imagine the schedule getting any easier from here.
 
That's one way to look at it. How about the number of points since Luc was traded for Williams or since the trade for Gay occurred?
Luc barely ever played for us so why would we even look at that.

and Isaiah took over when the Gay trade occured, so thats the same thing
 
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