stevetaebo
Bench
How about the 29th post?
http://www.nba.com/games/20101211/MIASAC/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021000348#nbaGIboxscore
[Grades] Grades v. Heat 12/11/10
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
How about the 29th post?
http://www.nba.com/games/20101211/MIASAC/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021000348#nbaGIboxscore
Kingster
Hall of Famer
You're jumping to conclusions. He's better defensively than Casspi. Am I sold on either one of them for the long term? No.
Also, you can write english next time so I can better respond to what you're trying to say.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Methinks you don't know how to read those stats:
Points given up per 100 possessions while Donte Greene is on the floor: 105.7
Points given up per 100 possessions while Donte Greene is off the floor: 115.0
Net: -9.3pts
Which is PHENOMENAL. Consider that guys like Sefalosha, Battier and Rondo all have slightly + nets at the moment.
Casspi's on the other hand are:
On: 119.3
Off: 106.7
Net: +12.6
Which is awful. Beno's only a +6.3. Cousins +6.6. Landry is +12.8.
Source: 82games.com
Last edited:
Entity
Hall of Famer
I will be shocked if you get a reply out of that. kinda tore his world down there Brick.
Ed2009
Bench
I actually think that Casspi had a good game.
I honestly dont know any player in the NBA that can stop D-Wade or Lebron in a 1:1 situation.
The problem is and was that our help D is non existent.
Dallas for example is playing a good D this year only because Chandler is a smart inside player that helps out once the outside player
was beaten. This is what we currently miss in our D nothing else.
Casspi had a good game and is simply not a player that can create offensive option by penetrating and he shouldnt do it since we already
have too many players that dribble the ball wayyy too long.
From my observation he is a player that is working and running a lot offside of the ball which is really important.
For me he was easily the best player on the floor on the night and played quite decent D.
But with no help D its difficult to defend a star player like D-Wade or Lebron.
I honestly dont know any player in the NBA that can stop D-Wade or Lebron in a 1:1 situation.
The problem is and was that our help D is non existent.
Dallas for example is playing a good D this year only because Chandler is a smart inside player that helps out once the outside player
was beaten. This is what we currently miss in our D nothing else.
Casspi had a good game and is simply not a player that can create offensive option by penetrating and he shouldnt do it since we already
have too many players that dribble the ball wayyy too long.
From my observation he is a player that is working and running a lot offside of the ball which is really important.
For me he was easily the best player on the floor on the night and played quite decent D.
But with no help D its difficult to defend a star player like D-Wade or Lebron.
Isn't that why he got the highest grade? That's true, it is difficult to defend those guys, and truth be told it's impossible to really stop them. What you can do however, is make it difficult for them, force them to shoot outside shots etc. Easier said than done of course, but if you watched the game you would have seen 6'9 Casspi let a guy half a foot shorter than him post him up repeatedly and get to the basket.
Tell that to Bruce Bowen, Eddie House, Robert Horry, Matt Barnes, Mike Miller once he gets back for the Heat, Radmanovic etc. I know what you mean, but realistically that's what they do on championship teams, have a 3 point specialist that basically camps there waiting for the kickout. You could argue however, that we're under-utilising Omri's talents by simply making him that dedicated outside shooter.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that everything is fine and that guys should just camp outside. The difference between our offense and that of championship teams has to do with player movement and screens. Take the Celtics for example, Rondo or Pierce drives, Ray Allen gets a double screen, moves to an open spot, defense collapses on driver, ball kicked out, extra pass to Allen and bam! Tyreke needs to initiate the offense earlier, be it from the PG or SG position. I find that the problem with him is he often waits too long as his mind is made up. He's not going to pass the ball back and is going to burn a good 8 - 10 seconds off the clock just waiting for the opportunity to drive in because that's what he's set on doing. He rarely uses screens well, and is usually just splitting the double team to get to the rim, which requires him waiting for the so-called opportune moment.
There are also no screens set to free up outside shooters, as we're just depending on the defense collapsing on Tyreke. Thing is, I think Tyreke's style of play is going to remain the same regardless of whether we put him at PG or SG. Once he gets the ball he's looking to drive, and will use up time trying to do so. I still believe that he can play PG and that we can build a successful offense around his driving ability, but he has to learn to use other options better, pick and roll, using screens, giving the ball back to get it back in better position etc, and the rest of the guys have to move around better. I know, I know, the other guys don't move now because Tyreke doesn't move, blablabla ... fine then, when Tyreke learns to play PG better the other guys need to move better too.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Doesn't exactly speak well for Landry, does it?
Ed2009
Bench
I think similar as Asaf.
We are not a one man show and need to move the ball much quicker and find the open men.
This season due to his injury or due to the fact that other teams have seriously studied his game he is not able to surprise and be as dominant as he was last year.
I like Reke but we are the Sacramento Kings and not the Tyreke Evans Show.
We have players with limited skills that can only win if playing as a unit and moving the ball quicker and finding the open man.
Standing and watching Reke going to the basket is IMHO not really the best system for our team.
And I agree too. All I'm saying is many people are acting as if Tyreke is going to be pretty much this way for the rest of his career, which is totally off. He's only in his second season and has lots of areas to improve in and the capability to improve in those areas. If you're talking about winning now, then yes, Tyreke isn't cutting it at PG and we'd be better off with someone more experienced in running an offense. But I'm looking at it long term and I think there is a possibility that Tyreke can be a very good and dominant PG, again not in the Nash or Jason Kidd sense but we can play him at PG and still have a successful team. He may also be better suited at the SG position, but either way the ball still has to move quicker like you said, and either way standing and watching Reke going to the basket is not the best system for the team. Guys need to move whether he's playing PG or SG and the offense sets we run overall need to be developed.
DeaconBlues
G-League
I was using basketball-reference as a source, their numbers are significantly different. They have both Casspi's and Greene's Drat at 109. I'll grant that 82games.com paints a completely different picture.
As for net production, I was comparing offensive points produced per 100 possessions to defensive points allowed. While less useful for comparing individual defense, it seems to me more useful in presenting a player's overall production when he's on the floor. That being said, according to the numbers at 82games Greene's overall production is better than Casspi's anyway.
Guess I was citing a bad source. Mea culpa.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We've got the same dynamic repeated up and down our lineup, and its one of our supporting problems this year -- very few of our guys excel on both ends of the floor. At almost every position we have this stark choice of putting in the offensive guy or the defensive guy, and that's just not how it works on good teams -- on good teams they have a defined group of top guys who do both. With us its really only Reke. Otherwise we can go Cousins (offense) or Daly (defense) at center, Landry (offense) or JT (somewhat better defense, much better rebounding) at PF, Casspi (offense) or Greene (defense) at SF, Beno (offense) or...well, I guess Head (defense) at the other guard spot. Guess Cisco may join Reke as somebody who can sometimes play both, but otherwise we have no two way players. All good teams will have a few defensive roleplayers, and maybe 1 offensive roleplayer (typically a 3pt shooter or possibly a PG). But none of them have to deal with these stark either/or choices at position after position where you can only win one side of the court by losing the other. You would have hoped Reke could come in and be dominant enough that we could afford to play the defensive guys around him and so dominate the defensive end of the court, and score enough on the other to win with it. But Reke being messed up has scuttled any chance of that working and we're stuck with this odd schism that makes the team feel like 12 individuals rather than a cohesive whole.
The nice thing about having lots of young players is that they still have a lot of room to improve both on offense and defense. So, theoretically there is a possibility that some of those offense-only or defense-only guys can become good on both ends within a season or two. Of course, for that to happen, they need to play consistent minutes in defined roles, which is not happening with the Kings.
DeaconBlues
G-League
I think they also need a system that will put them in a position to maximize their potential, and I don't really see that with the Kings.
I've been thinking a lot about the Spurs in the past few days, how they've been successful despite having few High draft picks or big name free agents outside of Duncan, and Manu who was just way better than any second round pick has any right to be. Guys like Parker or Hill have been groomed into the players they are today, and guys like Uberto or Bonner have contributed meaningfully despite their obvious limitations.
They did give up on Beno in disgust though.
Anyway, I think that with the young guys that came into the organization there was a certain vision of what they could become and a substantial, carefully considered plan to get them there. And with the Kings I think there's an attitude of "have 'Reke work on his jumpshot, and let him figure the game out for himself." I don't think it'll cut it. He'll be a terrific player, already is one when healthy, but not the player he can be. And that's even more crucial with the less talented guys on the team like Casspi, Greene and JT.
Just my two cents.
And on a tangential note, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Omri's hot streak last season (along with the team's shortlived run of success) come when he was playing substantial minutes at the 2?
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