[Grades] Grades v. Hawks 11/05/2013

Kingsfan23 said:
I thought pre-draft that Scrotum had the talent to be the best pg in this draft class and I don't know how much of that I back down from if Dipo is going to play 1 and MCW is balling like he is. Scrotum has stop and go speed and length that can't be taught, as well as improved perimeter game
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I was amazed at how fast he could stop and go. Annoyed with the assault on Cousins, obviously, but that guy's really good. His passes were really crisp also.
 
DMC being DMC. A couple more games with DMC pouting and not running back on D, and it's official: the dude is too dumb to lead a team.
 
I am looking at this game and the next two Portland games as a test to see if the Kings culture will change. So far, not so good.

This did get me to thinking about the new players brought in and how little they've been able to play. The new FO brought in Vasquez, Landry and LMAM. So far, only Vasquez has seen any real playing time and he's looked uncomfortable out there. So the games have been left to the old guard of players and all the old habits have reappeared. I am not sure Landry and Mbah A Moute would drastically alter attitudes, but it does make me curious that the way the Kings got back in this game was the scrappy D, and IT and Thornton jacking shots style of the past.
 
I can't believe some people are trying to say Horford is a bad match up for Cousins....he's undersized and a average defender who gives his all this is not Andrew Bogut or Roy Hibbert, if you take low % shots and don't go quickly on post moves than every single guy 6'9 + in the NBA is a "bad" match up.

Carroll had a lot to do with the Kings comeback. When he was on the floor, it was 6 Kings against 4 Hawks.
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I guess when Thornton, Patterson, Salmons and Vasquez are on the floor it's 9 on 1?
 
andremiller07 said:
I can't believe some people are trying to say Horford is a bad match up for Cousins....he's undersized and a average defender who gives his all this is not Andrew Bogut or Roy Hibbert, if you take low % shots and don't go quickly on post moves than every single guy 6'9 + in the NBA is a "bad" match up.


I guess when Thornton, Patterson, Salmons and Vasquez are on the floor it's 9 on 1?
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What could be characterized as a bit disturbing, is that we've already had 3 centers mentioned as "bad matchups" for Cousins, out of the 4 games they've played. If he's really one of the best centers in the league, or the potential to be soon,.. how can there be this many centers who are "bad matchups" for him???

We've heard "length" mentioned a few times. How can someone be one of the best centers in the NBA, when length is a bad matchup for them? o_O I don't get it
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
What could be characterized as a bit disturbing, is that we've already had 3 centers mentioned as "bad matchups" for Cousins, out of the 4 games they've played. If he's really one of the best centers in the league, or the potential to be soon,.. how can there be this many centers who are "bad matchups" for him???

We've heard "length" mentioned a few times. How can someone be one of the best centers in the NBA, when length is a bad matchup for them? o_O I don't get it
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Bogut is the only bad match up for him, DJ/Horford/McGee should have zero chance if he's taking quality shots. Cousins biggest problem is shot selection not length. I didn't hear anyone saying Horford was a bad match up for Cousins last year after they had to put Zaza, Petro and Smith on him cause he was having his way with the whole ATL line up including Horford.
 
Bricklayer said:
Not when he has two friends standing behind him, no.

Oddly enough this same roster did not work last year either, and seems to be struggling again. I am amazed I tell ya.
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A really stunning development, huh? I'm shocked too.

And no, adding Landry is not going to fix this mess.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
What could be characterized as a bit disturbing, is that we've already had 3 centers mentioned as "bad matchups" for Cousins, out of the 4 games they've played. If he's really one of the best centers in the league, or the potential to be soon,.. how can there be this many centers who are "bad matchups" for him???

We've heard "length" mentioned a few times. How can someone be one of the best centers in the NBA, when length is a bad matchup for them? o_O I don't get it
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The dominating All-Star big man narrative was overblown. He's not there yet. It's potential vs. reality. Also, it's a team game; not a one--on-one game. Atlanta had a well devised defense that allowed their undersized, but quicker team, to double Cousins and get him out of his game. Cousins still has some learnin' to do to know what to do in those situations. Last but not least, when you talk about Cousins being one of the best centers in the league, it's always with a caveat: If he is mentally right and doesn't get frustrated into stupid play.
 
No one should be suprised about Cousins antics. We have talked about this before. As the Kings' main weapon he is easy to befuddle and frustrate. He needs to learn to look for the open man better when double-teamed, and grow up some more. Shaq is the perfect guy to help him do both.

BMac is an obvious talent, but he is one year out of high school. Bring him along and keep his confidence by not over -exposing him to too many minutes.

The rationalizations about why IT is not that good are starting to get humorous. Everyone wants to believe that GV was going to save this team because he is big for a PG and had lots of assists somewhere else. When the Kings get in a funk and stand around, not even a great passer will have many assists. IT had lots of assists at Washington because he had an active supporting cast.

Thornton will be okay. He always plays hard and is capable of being a great scorer.

I don't know where to start with Salmons, Patterson and Thompson. I would be willing to trade all of them, but would start JT in the interim.
 
It would be a bad move to trade JT right now. He's serviceable, and brings size. If not, then you're left with Hayes at the 4. We might as well run an open-post offense whenever Cousins sits the bench.
 
andremiller07 said:
Bogut is the only bad match up for him, DJ/Horford/McGee should have zero chance if he's taking quality shots. Cousins biggest problem is shot selection not length. I didn't hear anyone saying Horford was a bad match up for Cousins last year after they had to put Zaza, Petro and Smith on him cause he was having his way with the whole ATL line up including Horford.
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Now why specifically is Bogut a bad matchup for him? Is it because he's surrounded by a bunch of good players, or something in his individual skillset?
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Now why specifically is Bogut a bad matchup for him? Is it because he's surrounded by a bunch of good players, or something in his individual skillset?
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Someone else mentioned on here but Bogut has a kind for shutting down skilled bigmen, he did the same thing to Spencer Hawes who is having a wonderful season so far and Duncan in last years playoffs. Bogut as a 1 on 1 defender is elite pretty much, that combined with Cousins questionable shot selection and being easily frustrated makes Bogut really hard for him.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Now why specifically is Bogut a bad matchup for him? Is it because he's surrounded by a bunch of good players, or something in his individual skillset?
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People have apparently forgotten that Bogut a few years ago was a DPOY candidate. He's very big, has several inches on Cousins, long, shotblocker, and understands defense. He's a bad matchup for just about any post player when he's healthy. Other problem guys for Cousins include Marc Gasol, and Roy Hibbert. notice anything about those names? Like perhaps they are all huge and the very best defensive bigs in the game?

Horford is not. Stand Horford up 1 on 1 behind Cousins and he will get beat over the course of a game. He's a good defender, it would not be the blowout you would see against a guy who isn't. He has both strength and mobility to hang with Cuz to some degree. But he's not a problem defender that chases people out of even attacking him. But the Hawks as a team, and the Hawks scheme, made use of his ability to impede Cousins long enough for the swarm to come.

Now the fact is, Cousins whipped their defense. he broke their defense before he even stepped on the floor. Nearly every single play down the floor he whipped it. That's the thing people don't get about post players who force doubles and help. As soon as that help comes = you've won. Somebody is open. But there is the point we have to get dramatically better at. Cousins has to understand that, set ego aside, and find the open guy. His teammates have to find some talent, set their Napoleon complexes aside, and dump it to him knowing they will get it back. Oh yes, and the pathetic turds on the perimeter have to hit the open shots created. But you design entire offenses to do exactly what Cousins was able to do just by walking on the floor against the Hawks -- get a guy open every time he touched the ball. Suddenly give him Webber's vision and mentality when those swarms were coming and we might have scored 120 on the Hawks (come to think about it maybe only if we put Bibby and Peja out there on the shots rather than Grevis and Salmons). But that's not where we are. We have a weapon that the Hawks were flat terrified of, but neither that weapon nor his teammates have any real idea how to take advantage of it yet.
 
Bricklayer said:
Now the fact is, Cousins whipped their defense. he broke their defense before he even stepped on the floor. Nearly every single play down the floor he whipped it. That's the thing people don't get about post players who force doubles and help. As soon as that help comes = you've won. Somebody is open. But there is the point we have to get dramatically better at. Cousins has to understand that, set ego aside, and find the open guy. His teammates have to find some talent, set their Napoleon complexes aside, and dump it to him knowing they will get it back. Oh yes, and the pathetic turds on the perimeter have to hit the open shots created. But you design entire offenses to do exactly what Cousins was able to do just by walking on the floor against the Hawks -- get a guy open every time he touched the ball. Suddenly give him Webber's vision and mentality when those swarms were coming and we might have scored 120 on the Hawks (come to think about it maybe only if we put Bibby and Peja out there on the shots rather than Grevis and Salmons). But that's not where we are. We have a weapon that the Hawks were flat terrified of, but neither that weapon nor his teammates have any real idea how to take advantage of it yet.
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http://stats.nba.com/leagueTeamShots.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=30&sortField=FGA5ft1&sortOrder=DES

Now I know that we are one of only 10 teams to play 4 games so far this season, but I thought I would point at that we are dead last in shot attempts <5ft. That's just criminal.
 
I looked at this game again. If you still have it on your DVR look at the 7:25 minute mark of the first quarter. That's when there was a turn. The Kings were having their way up to that point. The Kings were up 17-6. Then Cousins on the defensive end fronts Horford. The pass is lobbed over Cousins to Horford, who gets a layup. Cousins seems miffed. He raises his hands up, giving the appearance, of frustration and looks at Patterson. He then lazily jogs up the floor. When he gets back on D he sets a half hearted screen and just stands there. The Kings miss and he lazily jogs down the floor. Millsap gets the ball outside and Cousins finds himself guarding him; Cousins bites on the Millsap fake; Millsap misses; Horford comes in the paint to offensive rebound for 2 points. Cousins continues to look miffed and lets go with an F-bomb. He continues to lazily jog down the floor. The next play Vasquez throws a bad pass and Atlanta steels the ball; Atlanta runs a very slow "fast break". Cousins is roughly parallel with the ball when the steal occurs, but Cousins isn't even in the screen when Atlanta gets past the half court line. He very lazily gets down the floor on D; Atlanta converts for a layup under the basket with Millsap under the basket. There was plenty of time for Cousins to get back on D to prevent the layup, but he wasn't putting out the effort. . At this point Malone calls a TO. He's seen enough.

I'd encourage everybody to watch this sequence of events for themselves. This is not the demeanor or body language the Kings coaching staff wants to see. This is not the culture they hope to impart. This was not caused by anything extraordinary like a groin grab or even a bad call. Cousins just stopped playing during the course of the game over his frustration with one simple play.
 
Kingster said:
I looked at this game again. If you still have it on your DVR look at the 7:25 minute mark of the first quarter. That's when there was a turn. The Kings were having their way up to that point. The Kings were up 17-6. Then Cousins on the defensive end fronts Horford. The pass is lobbed over Cousins to Horford, who gets a layup. Cousins seems miffed. He raises his hands up, giving the appearance, of frustration and looks at Patterson. He then lazily jogs up the floor. When he gets back on D he sets a half hearted screen and just stands there. The Kings miss and he lazily jogs down the floor. Millsap gets the ball outside and Cousins finds himself guarding him; Cousins bites on the Millsap fake; Millsap misses; Horford comes in the paint to offensive rebound for 2 points. Cousins continues to look miffed and lets go with an F-bomb. He continues to lazily jog down the floor. The next play Vasquez throws a bad pass and Atlanta steels the ball; Atlanta runs a very slow "fast break". Cousins is roughly parallel with the ball when the steal occurs, but Cousins isn't even in the screen when Atlanta gets past the half court line. He very lazily gets down the floor on D; Atlanta converts for a layup under the basket with Millsap under the basket. There was plenty of time for Cousins to get back on D to prevent the layup, but he wasn't putting out the effort. . At this point Malone calls a TO. He's seen enough.

I'd encourage everybody to watch this sequence of events for themselves. This is not the demeanor or body language the Kings coaching staff wants to see. This is not the culture they hope to impart. This was not caused by anything extraordinary like a groin grab or even a bad call. Cousins just stopped playing during the course of the game over his frustration with one simple play.
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I did not go back and re- watch the play but what you describe is my ongoing impression of Cousins. Hasn't near grown up yet. I hope he will but mean while develop a plan B.
 
Glenn said:
Golly, let me think .....................................................
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As much as the Tyreke Evans fast break was one of the worst things in NBA history, he was our 2nd best talent. It's really clear seeing the effect of that at this point. I go back and forth whether that was the right move. Is he worth 11 million? I just don't know. Did that move make us worse in the short term? 100% yes
 
Chubbs said:
As much as the Tyreke Evans fast break was one of the worst things in NBA history, he was our 2nd best talent. It's really clear seeing the effect of that at this point. I go back and forth whether that was the right move. Is he worth 11 million? I just don't know. Did that move make us worse in the short term? 100% yes
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Let's see ......... what happened, team was sold, new head of basketball operations, new coaching staff, Evans was not resigned, acquired 5 nw players 3 of whom have had injury problems, the best player is wildly inconsistent, this board's favorite player is starting, Hayes and Outlaw have been featured, Thompson has not started, IT is playing the majority of PG minutes, one could go on but this is sufficient. Yes, we are not playing as well without Evans.
 
I agree with Kingster's analysis of Cousins. All an opposing team has to do really is frustrate him a couple of times and he is prone to give up.

I still believe he takes quarters and sometimes games off. His talent has never been in question. He needs to prepare for double teams, because the secret is out.
 
pshn80 said:
Let's see ......... what happened, team was sold, new head of basketball operations, new coaching staff, Evans was not resigned, acquired 5 nw players 3 of whom have had injury problems, the best player is wildly inconsistent, this board's favorite player is starting, Hayes and Outlaw have been featured, Thompson has not started, IT is playing the majority of PG minutes, one could go on but this is sufficient. Yes, we are not playing as well without Evans.
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When he wanted to, he was a true two way player. And really the only one we had.
 
ppine said:
I agree with Kingster's analysis of Cousins. All an opposing team has to do really is frustrate him a couple of times and he is prone to give up.

I still believe he takes quarters and sometimes games off. His talent has never been in question. He needs to prepare for double teams, because the secret is out.
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It's a little confusing why that bothers him so much. It's coming every game the rest of your career buddy. Time to accept it.
 
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