[Grades] GRADES: Kings v. Boogie, 10/26/17

Who would win in a fight?


  • Total voters
    34
#31
Some of the booing was fan frustration that Boogie was suddenly getting all star treatment from the refs, and that was some bullpoopoo.

I never heard anything disrespectful toward Boogie from my seats near visitor bench. It was all good.
Ya, this too. He got some calls that he NEVER got when he played in sac. A couple toward the end of the game that really changed the game.
 
#32
Boogie is alright I think. That's all I have to say about that.

As for the Kings, are there other teams in the league that are this up and down during the course of a single game?

My grades are wild a loose and I'm not particularly committed to them.

Hill: (C-) He just didn't seem to bring much to the table. His defense was solid and he didn't screw up too much, but he wasn't really making plays either. He needs to do more if he's going to keep his starting job.

Hield: (C+) I think we're going to get a couple of bone-head plays from Buddy every night, but I thought he was a net-positive tonight. He defends hard and made some plays on offense to help build that lead to start the game. I thought he should have got more minutes given how he was playing and how he was hitting shots.

Jackson: (B) This was the best I've seen him play and it still seemed like he got iced by the coach keeping him out as long as he did. I like Vince Carter as much as anyone, but if Jackson is playing well then Vince doesn't need to be out there and that was the case last night. He was aggressive, making good decisions, making shots, and working hard on D. He's been getting better and more confident and he needs to get more minutes. I'd rather see him out there than Vince (who I love BTW).

Z-Bo: (B-) I'll give Zach a B- for his attitude alone. He stirs things up and I think it fits well on this team and gets guys going a little bit. I think this team lacks that outside of Z-BO. He's too selfish on offense for my tastes and it stops any flow for the other guys. He rebounded well and made a few shots and played physical. His starting spot should be in jeopardy to Skal.

WCS: (C-): This may be generous but I thought he did some positive things. Few guys have a chance against a motivated and in control Boogie, and Willie is not one of those few. He got his points and made some other plays but he got absolutely destroyed on the boards and that made a big difference in the game. I think he could have done better.

Fox: (C+) He put a lot of pressure on the defense as is his MO, but also made his share of mistakes and didn't shoot particularly well. I think his shooting stroke is nice and as he works on it he'll get much more consistent. His defense is where I have a problem with him. He was getting beat pretty consistently until the 4th quarter where he seemed to buckle down. I want that to be consistent.

Bogdan: (B+) He was the best King in my opinion and I think he may soon take over Hield, especially if Hill continues to start. He has more PG skills than Hill does and definitely has more PG instincts than George. Not that I think he should be playing PG, but he has those abilities. He was looking for his teammates last night and his passing ability was really impressive. Coach Joerger is probably correct that we need a little more scoring from him at times given this current team, but that distributing ability makes him really dangerous. He showed poise and smarts and the moments did not seem too big for him. He's going to be a good one.

Temple: (C-) I'm tempted to go lower but I'll keep him here out of respect. His defense was good but he made a lot of mistakes otherwise. He shot poorly, gave the ball away a few times and didn't add a lot otherwise.

Skal: (B) He's getting consistent at coming in, shooting well, making some nice plays and then getting taken out for a long time. He shot the ball well, put in good effort all around. He got out-muscled in the paint as is his MO at this point but he was working and trying and made the nice block to provide some energy. I think he should play more and Z-Bo should play less.

Koufos: (B-) Kosta was his normal self and was probably our best defender against Boogie (which isn't a rousing endorsement). He rebounded nicely and hit a couple shots. I give him the minus because he missed a gimme and was so awkward at the high post. I'm not sure I like him handling the offense as much as he does from the high post. It just doesn't seem to suit him.

Carter: (?) I love Vince but he looks older and slower than I thought he would. The other guys were playing well enough that he didn't need to be out there.
 
#33
Boggy (A-)

Boggy made a beautiful bounce pass with score 101-98 with 5 minute left to Oven Mitts under the basket drawing two defenders to him and all Koufos had to do was dunk it.....KER-PLANK! I thought the team and the arena became deflated when Koufos threw up trash and the game was effectively over. Missing point blank shots is not anything new for Koufos. Any dedicated fan has seen it 100 times before. It is almost masochistic to invest emotionally in a player like this who is going to disappoint, invite pain and frustration!

What allows me to keep my sanity as a Kings fan when I see deadweight and unbridle incoordination on the roster year after year is to detach and laugh instead of cry. I jump ship and withdraw my rooting interest from Kings players who are futile. Every year there is players in the rotation who pretty much ruin any chance at flow and sustained success going back to Jason Hart, Marcus Thornton and Jason Thompson. Last year was Affalo and Barnes and after a decent start, Ben. This year it is Z-Bong, Koufos and Carter. They are not going to lead us anywhere.... so guess what I am NOT cheering for them!

Why would anyone want to subject themselves to this futility?!? It is either lack of intelligence or insight as NBA fan or masochism! Any bright moments of play from them is pure fools gold. They may deceive when the opponent is disinterested, when the stars are aligned or superior teammates make them look good, but these moments defy the predominant trend. Last night was Z-Bong's best game, but that is NOT a player you can win with. Trust me, when Z-Bong does something good, it is a negative in disguise, because it only encourages him to "go all in with a pair of twos".

Boggy continues to show he knows where to be defensively, he has an intuitive timing for when to shoot and pass, and has a poised demeanor uncommon to a guy playing his 2nd NBA game.

Joerger (F)

My bet is Joerger pushed for the signing of Carter and Z-Bong. So even if he knows they are bad he has to pretend otherwise. These guys are on the books for $19 million ($ 7 + $12) this year. That's a huge chunk of change that could have gotten us a real difference maker if spent prudently. Joerger has to try to justify his advocacy for their addition at least 30-40 games into the season. By the then we will be 8-32.

At least Fox and Boggy are exciting. And Skal and Buddy showed life in the sparse minutes they were allocated, 15 minutes and 20 minutes.


Boogie (A+)

Boogie's performance did not surprise me. Expected it. He is better than ever at picking his spots when to attack and when to hold back. He's not that runaway freight train like he used to be when he would get the rebound and go. In spite of his 41/23/6 we (could) should have won. With better coaching and substitutions we would have. Buddy deserved to be out there in the 4th. Hill didn't. This is the second game in a row Z-Bo has doubled up in minutes over Skal. It is non-sense. The other thing that has to change is that even if Skal's minutes go up, Skal and Willie have to make more plays defensively if the team is going to be respectable. We know Z-Bong and Koufos are immobile and are going to offer paper thin resistance, but we have to be able to count on more sturdy resistance from our two young guys. Skal had an epic block and I want to see more of this.

Our offense is NOT good enough to outscore teams 115-110. Right now we are a team capable of scoring 95 points on average and a team capable of holding teams to about 105-110 points. A 10-15 point differential to the negative will lose you around 60 to 65 games (or more). Right now the team looks NO more capable than that. At this point 2018 Lottery Lovers Rejoice. Top 5 here we come.
I mean last year we had Barnes and when getting called out that Barnes was playing like a steaming hot pile of dog**** his response was that he needed MORE Matt Barnes. You're more optimistic than I am at 30-40 games; I don't think it's going to stop ever. I'm convinced we need to take his favorite toys away to stop seeing Zbo at 30 min a game and him stealing 6 or 7 min a game at the 4 for Carter.
 
#34
I was happy with a lot from WCS. Cuz is the worst/hardest matchup for him and he came out and didnt back down. Had a number of solid defensive plays and looked confident in first half with his jumper. Thought he did a good job picking his spots on offense and not forcing anything.
 
#35
I hate losing a game like this.
The Kings' main problem was spelled C o u s i ns. On a night when DMC got something like 41 points and 20 rebounds, Willie gets 2 rebounds. Really? Our defensive ace that can play any position gives up 41/20 and gets 12/2. That was the difference in the game. AD seems to have really helped Cousins with his punk attitude. I did not see a lot complaining and wasted effort. He just kept his head down and played really hard. Good for him.

So we learn that the Kings are capable of a 40 point quarter, passing the ball, running the floor, hitting shots and playing defense.
They came out in the 3rd quarter playing not to lose. Whatever Coach J told them at the half did not work. They got 17 points and could not hit a thing. There is a big difference in basketball between hoping a shot goes in and thinking "this shot is going in." The Kings at this point seem to have a confidence level that goes up and down every 15 minutes. That is one of their main obstacles to success. It is not about Xs and Os, or the rotation, or the coaching, or anything else technical. Emotionally the Kings play like rookies. The veterans have not been able to help much.

The closest thing the Kings have to a leader is Bogdanovic. He has the tools to make a play when the Kings' need one and not get rattled. The season is young, but I am not seeing the same quality from Hill. He seems ineffective much of the time and unsure of himself. Fox is a rookie, but has a very uncommon level of confidence for a young guy and plays like he belongs out there. It is easy to build a case that Bogie and Fox should start some of the time against some teams.

Skal seems to be figuring out how this works. His shooting ability is something from outer space in that he is long, extends his shot and gets it up quickly. I wish he could take some mean pills and rebound with more vengeance. Temple and Koufus are role players. Jackson showed some great progress this game. Buddy seems lost though.

The Kings talent is there. They play hard most of the time. They give up big runs by other teams and struggle with the mental part of the game. I would like to sit in the front row some time and hear what other teams are saying to them during games. Basketball is mental warfare and the Kings' need to learn to engage better.
 
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#36
Respectfully disagree. I was there too and Boogie got two standing ovations. One at intro and another during the first timeout when they did the tribute. They were both super loud from where I was sitting on the baseline. I didn't hear any booing during those ovations. There were a lot of boos when he was chewing us up, and that too was awesome. Fans weren't booing Boogie because they didn't like him, they were showing him that we are still Kings fans. BTW, that is how he took it.

Webber always gets a standing ovation when he comes to Sac. Not sure why those were even being compared.
Maybe you were down with the people who paid better money than me because in my section there were a lot of boos. I'm not saying there were more boos than cheers but there were definitely more boo birds than I expected out there.

I compared two returning players and I gave my exact reasoning on it so there should be no confusion as to why I compared them.
 
#37
Maybe you were down with the people who paid better money than me because in my section there were a lot of boos. I'm not saying there were more boos than cheers but there were definitely more boo birds than I expected out there.

I compared two returning players and I gave my exact reasoning on it so there should be no confusion as to why I compared them.
I was dead in the middle of section 101. Didn't here or see a single boo, almost everyone in my line of sight was standing. I'm sure there were a couple, but definitely drowned out by the cheers if they were there. Watch the videos all over the internet, you hear only cheering.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#38
Yeah I was but unfortunately my view of where Webber was sitting was blocked.

Is there some sort of drama there?
Rumors run rampart but I have never seen any obvious evidence. "Everybody" seems to assume Webb's often pointed comments about the Kings organization have been about Vivek.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#39
Boggy (A-)

Boggy made a beautiful bounce pass with score 101-98 with 5 minute left to Oven Mitts under the basket drawing two defenders to him and all Koufos had to do was dunk it.....KER-PLANK! I thought the team and the arena became deflated when Koufos threw up trash and the game was effectively over. Missing point blank shots is not anything new for Koufos. Any dedicated fan has seen it 100 times before. It is almost masochistic to invest emotionally in a player like this who is going to disappoint, invite pain and frustration!

What allows me to keep my sanity as a Kings fan when I see deadweight and unbridle incoordination on the roster year after year is to detach and laugh instead of cry. I jump ship and withdraw my rooting interest from Kings players who are futile. Every year there is players in the rotation who pretty much ruin any chance at flow and sustained success going back to Jason Hart, Marcus Thornton and Jason Thompson. Last year was Affalo and Barnes and after a decent start, Ben. This year it is Z-Bong, Koufos and Carter. They are not going to lead us anywhere.... so guess what I am NOT cheering for them!

Why would anyone want to subject themselves to this futility?!? It is either lack of intelligence or insight as NBA fan or masochism! Any bright moments of play from them is pure fools gold. They may deceive when the opponent is disinterested, when the stars are aligned or superior teammates make them look good, but these moments defy the predominant trend. Last night was Z-Bong's best game, but that is NOT a player you can win with. Trust me, when Z-Bong does something good, it is a negative in disguise, because it only encourages him to "go all in with a pair of twos".

Boggy continues to show he knows where to be defensively, he has an intuitive timing for when to shoot and pass, and has a poised demeanor uncommon to a guy playing his 2nd NBA game.

Joerger (F)

My bet is Joerger pushed for the signing of Carter and Z-Bong. So even if he knows they are bad he has to pretend otherwise. These guys are on the books for $19 million ($ 7 + $12) this year. That's a huge chunk of change that could have gotten us a real difference maker if spent prudently. Joerger has to try to justify his advocacy for their addition at least 30-40 games into the season. By the then we will be 8-32.

At least Fox and Boggy are exciting. And Skal and Buddy showed life in the sparse minutes they were allocated, 15 minutes and 20 minutes.


Boogie (A+)

Boogie's performance did not surprise me. Expected it. He is better than ever at picking his spots when to attack and when to hold back. He's not that runaway freight train like he used to be when he would get the rebound and go. In spite of his 41/23/6 we (could) should have won. With better coaching and substitutions we would have. Buddy deserved to be out there in the 4th. Hill didn't. This is the second game in a row Z-Bo has doubled up in minutes over Skal. It is non-sense. The other thing that has to change is that even if Skal's minutes go up, Skal and Willie have to make more plays defensively if the team is going to be respectable. We know Z-Bong and Koufos are immobile and are going to offer paper thin resistance, but we have to be able to count on more sturdy resistance from our two young guys. Skal had an epic block and I want to see more of this.

Our offense is NOT good enough to outscore teams 115-110. Right now we are a team capable of scoring 95 points on average and a team capable of holding teams to about 105-110 points. A 10-15 point differential to the negative will lose you around 60 to 65 games (or more). Right now the team looks NO more capable than that. At this point 2018 Lottery Lovers Rejoice. Top 5 here we come.
Totally agree with your comments about Boogie, kind of agree with your comments about Bogs (but not Koufos since I think he does have at least minimal value and not Carter because - well - I think rookies can always learn something from a future HOFer), and remain unconvinced about Joerger's complicity in hiring Carter (Z-Bo might be a different matter).

Your last sentences, however, are your best. Fox and Bogs are gonna light up our lives as Kings fans for a long time and I would love it if Skal (and maybe even Giles) did the same.

Biggest disappointment of the night for me was Hield, but only because I had high hopes for him and thus far I just don't see the potential for anywhere near as high a ceiling as I once thought.

Hill? Not sure what's going on. He looks like he's playing through a mild case of the flu or something.
 
#42
George Hill cashing it in. Doesn't do anything, adds less value than David Stockton at this point. Joerger's rotations have been terrible. Hield barely plays in 2nd and 4th so that we can play more Vince Carter.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#45
Pels take down Cavs 123 to 101, Cuz had a triple double, 29 points, 12 rebounds, and 10 assists. I give him an A-. Maybe Pels are better than we think.
Be sure and check out the NBA forum. There are a couple of different threads you might enjoy. Both have frequent mention of DMC.