Go Kings, Go!

  • Thread starter Thread starter luvDkings
  • Start date Start date
L

luvDkings

Guest
I must be the only one with internet in Sacramento because there are massive amounts of evidence that sports arenas suck cities dry.

For example, sports economist Brad Humphreys, a professor of recreation, sport and tourism at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

“The net economic impact of professional sports in Washington, D.C., and the 36 other cities that hosted professional sports teams over nearly 30 years, was a reduction in real per capita income over the entire metropolitan area, Humphreys and Coates noted in the report. The researchers found other patterns consistent with the presence of pro sports teams. Among them:

-- a statistically significant negative impact on the retail and services sectors of the local economy, including an average net loss of 1,924 jobs;

-- an increase in wages in the hotels and other lodgings sector (about $10 per worker year), but a reduction in wages in bars and restaurants (about $162 per worker per year).”

Dennis Coates and Brad Humphreys analyze the economics of arenas and conclude that:

“The evidence suggests that attracting a professional sports franchise to a city and building that franchise a new stadium or arena will have no effect on the growth rate of real per capita income and may reduce the level of real per capita income in that city.”

Patrick Crouch, Rhodes scholar:

“After examining both the costs and benefits of sports arenas, it may well be the case that the benefits outweigh the cost. However, the degree to which this is true is unknown due to externalities. It should be noted that the actual benefit of sports arenas typically is far less than the benefit estimated in promotional studies.”

The new arena in Dallas had to offering tax incentives to businesses to move nearby. I guess it hasn't attracted the mass influx of companies that was expected.

“The minimal economic effects of a new stadium or arena on a city have been written about by many authors. Economic studies of these effects by many authors show only a small positive or negative impact on a city's economy, if any. Critics of economic development strategies which focus on sports often point out that many other alternatives might yield a better return on investment than that of sports.”

“The SBC Center, which opened next door to the coliseum three years ago as the home of the Spurs, has yet to bring the much-talked-about economic revitalization to the East Side neighborhoods surrounding it.”

Harvard did a study of the impact arenas have on local communities. It stated that never has any arena ever paid off to the promises of the team owners and backers.

So, an arena is not guaranteed to provide a big stimulus to the overall Sacramento economy or "quality of life," but should rather be seen as one more complementary amenity.

So why are we pursuing this? For starters, it's the astute civic and business leaders of the government dole that are behind it. They apparently think the MCI Center in D.C. revitalized that town, although urban scholars don't think the arena had that much to do with it.

“A report by the St. Louis Federal Reserve reveals that 55 arenas were built or refurbished between 1987 and 1999 in the United States at a cost of more than $8.7 billion, of which nearly $5 billion was paid by hard-working taxpayers in the form of government subsidies. The Fed's report also suggests such public-arena investments come at the expense of higher priorities - including schools, infrastructure and lower taxes - that produce solid returns to a larger segment of society.”

So, revitalization is the new snake oil mantra cast in the "show me the arena" spell. This pick pocket trickery seems to work every time. Some say Cleveland's on a comeback because of a baseball stadium and an indoor arena. But for many familiar with Cleveland's situation, the hype hasn't been met.

When this was on the ballot in '90," said W. Dennis Keating, professor of law and urban studies at Cleveland State University, "the promises and advertising were inflated."

Among the promises: an increase in employment with 28,000 permanent jobs, housing for the homeless and $15 million annually for city schools. So far, Cleveland hasn't seen those projections ring true, which bolsters what many economists have been saying for years -- sports stadiums do not bring the economic benefits that supporters trumpet.

Despite all this, the question stays in my head. Why does just about every civic and business leader on the government dole seem to support this arena? Why are they trying to censor the Sacramento Bee from making any negative comments on Measure Q and R?

The explanation may come from Phil Porter, director of the Center for Economic Policy Analysis at the University of South Florida. He says a sports arena financed by taxpayers can hurt a region's economy along with its "quality of life." But he goes a step further, enlightening us on the fixation of new arena measures by Sacramento's civic and business leaders on the dole.

“Politicians, though, are attuned to the possibility of losing a professional sports franchise and the negative fallout that would come with it. Nobody wants to be the mayor that lost the hockey team," But the question we ought to be asking is, “How much taxation is any team worth to your quality of life?” Porter said.

No matter how much fancy multimillion dollar big city make-up the Yes on Measure Q and R campaigners put on this pig, it's still a pig, a big fat pork-barrel pig. Our astute civic and business leaders of the government dole have to be careful, if a weak levee washes this arena deal down the drain, the public will no longer fall for ego-driven arena projects supported by weak urban cost/benefit analysis. That may mean the next ridiculous Downtown Revitalization Project will have to be (gasp) privately funded.

And if a sellout crowd of 17,317 of the most devoted fans of basketball at Arco Arena for every game since it opened in 1988 isn't enough for the Maloofs, then all their sincerity about how committed they are to this community is just another snake oil mantra in the pick pocket trickery of the "show me the arena" spell.

Citizens can only bear so much new taxes. Nothing personal. But it wasn't that long ago in Sacramento when pick pockets, snake oil grifters, and thieves were flogged and thrown out of town.
 
You are talking about studies done by people in ivory towers. And having extremely smart economists and statiisticians in my family, I can tell you that economics is definitely more art than science. Don't read it like fact.

First off, there are also studies that indicate that most of those studies do not account for or assign a value to the many "intangible" values an arena and a pro sports team bring. Why? Because it is a very hard thing to assign a value to such things. You can find studies that try, tho. Actual dollar value isn't everything.

I've lived in the Sacramento region for over 35 years. I do not want to have to drive to the bay area anymore for the kind of events that require an adequate arena. I don't do it often, but h*ll if I want to spend the time, hassle and money to drive to SF or Oakland on top of ticket and parking prices. Not to mention increasing pollution and traffic gridlock.

The other thing is none of those people doing those studies actually go to any of those cities and talk to the citizens about how they feel about their stadiums or arenas. Have you talked to anyone about how they feel about Stockton's arena? How about the people in San Antonio, Phoenix, Memphis or Charlotte. Generally speaking most of the people when asked are happy with their stadia/arenas. Dan Quayle was on KHTK and said their new arena did wonders for a really awful part of Phoenix. I've heard citizens and others say the same thing about Detroit. And why do you thing cities with no sports teams at all are still building arenas. Kansas City and Witchita are two among many.

I went to high school here. I remember when I traveled to other states and people had never heard of Sacramento or only vaguely would remember it was the capital (a lot of people thought SF was). Now you can go almost anywhere in the world and when you say you're from Sac, the person says "Kings!" You have an immediate bond with a stranger. How many millions could the city spend on promoting Sacramento as a great place to live, start a business, work and never have achieved that level of worldwide automatic name recognition?

How about the value of the millions in charitable contributions that come from MSE, the NBA and players to this community? Not accounted for either. What is the value to children in the Shriners Hospital to have NBA and WNBA players visit them. What is the value of the reading centers that have been created all around Sacramento and having their idols come and read to them at their schools? What is the value of having a city have something it rallies around regardless of race, ethnicity, economic status? During play-off runs I've talked Kings or Monarchs with people at work that don't don't care much for sports most of the time and also to strangers on the street. How about the tickets that MSE gives away to charities and the kids that get to attend games as guests of a player?

Are you getting any clue yet as to how much those studies don't account for?

And cities, including Sacramento subsidize businesses all the time, because they believe it is good for the city. Sheraton, Hyatt and Embassy Suites are a tiny example of businesses that received public money and incentives to build here. At least this is an opprotunity for the City/County to own valuable land and a beautiful, signature, civic building. They get rent every year, regardless of how well the arena does and they will own land and a building that will be worth a whole lot more in 30 years. (Check out how much an average house was worth in Sacramento 30 years ago.) Real estate is always an excellent investment, even for a city/county.

I think Illa Collins spoke the most eloquently about having a beuatiful arena here in Sacramento. Like me, she remembers going all the way to the Bay Area to go to certain types of events, for me a rare but special memory. She said she doesn't want to create her family memories in the Bay Area anymore. She wants a place here in Sacramento to create family memories. What is the price tag for that?

EDIT: Oh, by the way....I figured the 1/4 of a cent raise will cost me, at most, an extra $1 to $1.50 per month. And I do have a fair amount of disposible income. Still the vast majority of my paycheck goes to non-sales taxable expenses like mortage, insurance, car payment, utilties, food, health care, etc. So maybe $18 bucks a year or 6 gallons of gas. One trip a year to SF or Tahoe would cost me more than that (in gas alone). So the Maloofs put in $20 million up front and pay rent every year and I pay in $270 over 15 years to have a beautiful arena in our city for me and future generations to enjoy. I feel so used. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Are you kidding?.....it really is not this complicated. This deal is not about making money. It is about entertainment. It will cost me significantly less than what most people spend on gum each month. Are there any quotes from scholars on how much entertainment a city can have without a venue?
 
I am the only one who thinks this looks like an article we've seen somewhere before?
 
I must be the only one with internet in Sacramento because there are massive amounts of evidence that sports arenas suck cities dry.

Yea, you are the only one in Sac with internet, we are all using tin cans and string. Even using such archaic methods, there are several studies already posted which fly directly in the face of your scholars studies. Just because they weren't posted in HUGE FONT doesn't mean they aren't at least as compelling and/or factual. Since you DO have internet and aren't using string like all of us, I'll let you do some reading on the board and see if you can find them.

PS- welcome to the board
PPS- the HUGE FONT thing isn't neccesary
PPPS- the Kings have NOT sold out every game since 1988, far, far from it.
 
kennadog, may I once again commend you on your excellent response. I agree with every word...right down the line. I don't think there is anything more I can add to that.
 
The opening piece for this thread is really nothing new.

We got the usual Humphreys quote from one of his "life's mission" studies. Kennadog did a nice job in presenting many of the reasons that these studies by Humphreys and other (supposedly learned) college professors have been debunked and, yes, they are biased.

I'm sure that the PR team will give us a healthy dose of "before-and-after" scenes and data and citizen/civic leader interviews from other cities that have recently built their new downtown arenas....and then this issue will be put to rest. Once and for all.

It's interesting to note that the piece singled out Cleveland, Dallas, Washington DC, and San Antonio as city poster children of failed new arena revitalization efforts. I've read just the opposite on 3 of these 4 locations, and BTW, the piece says that it DID happen in DC but chooses to not give credit to the new arena but other things.

There's also the predictable "levee burst" threat and that any additional taxes should go to that. Levees surrounding long water courses are state and/or Federal issues and are funded that way, because of the extent of the systems and the fact that what is done downstream can affect upstream and vice versa.

The reality is that an incredible amount of work is ONGOING on our levees and there will be a STATE bond measure next year to get more funding to raise our level of protection higher. Whether or not this miniscule local sales tax increase flies, your Federal taxes and State monies will continue to fund this needed work.

The two are unrelated. It's not one or the other.

Finally, another hackneyed argument in the piece, that the tax is for our "sports team". Hopefully, on both sides, we all realize that the facts do not support this ridiculous statement.

Like I said, nothing new here.

In fact, I'm feeling more confident about Q & R all the time now, simply because the opposition issues have been addressed and they are now repeating them.
 
http://www.grapevineindependent.com/opinion.shtml
Saturday's Internet Edition, 9:56 AM, September 9, 2006.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Letters to the Editor for September 8, 2006


.
. - Arena proposal
The entertainment tax proposals, Measures Q and R, asking for an increase of the county sales tax, are not, in my opinion, a good deal for county residents.
If they had been put on the ballot as special taxes requiring two-thirds majority for approval, I might change my outlook. I presently do not plan on voting for either.
I, like Councilperson Budge, have been and remain a Sacramento Kings season ticket holder since their arrival. I will regret if these measures fail and the Kings leave, but I feel these measures have been hastily arranged and shoved down our throats.
There should have been more open discussions of the complexities of the deals. Why should be accept the statement “we got the best we could get”?
There has been very little discussion regarding the possibility of hazardous material still remaining in the rail yard. If so, must it be removed prior to the county acquiring the property? Who will be liable?
What happens if the tax passes, but the arena cannot be built for some reason? Will county supervisors immediately begin disbursing the increased tax monies to the incorporated cities? Isn’t this almost the same board that made us wait for monies prior to cityhood? Roger Dickinson and others were not the most ardent supporters of cityhood for Rancho Cordova. Now that he wants support for these measures, there are a lot of promises.
Can we assume the supervisors will be fair? How will this possible increase affect the sales tax mitigation agreements instigated at cityhood?
The Maloofs are sharp business people. They probably mean well. They say they like the city, but have pushed us into the corner. Is there a promise for the team to stay 30 years if things go bad? Leases and broken and businesses leave a site empty and write off the rent - Albertson’s Ralph’s, Sam’s Club and others in Rancho Cordova.
If Arco has dissipated in 18 years, what will these new entities look like in 30?
There have been some good points made by others regarding a “no” vote. I would appreciate seeing or hearing a question and answer type discussion with Supervisor Dickinson and Assemblyman Dave Jones. There are some unaddressed matters regarding the political importance and financial implications of these measures.
Walt Myers
Rancho Cordova

I put this here because I believe it shows some of the things that people are opposed to and has some valid questions. I also agree with the statement I bolded, I believe it would be a very good idea.
 
http://www.grapevineindependent.com/opinion.shtml
Saturday's Internet Edition, 9:56 AM, September 9, 2006.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Letters to the Editor for September 8, 2006


.
. - Arena proposal
I presently do not plan on voting for either.
I, like Councilperson Budge, have been and remain a Sacramento Kings season ticket holder since their arrival. I will regret if these measures fail and the Kings leave, but I feel these measures have been hastily arranged and shoved down our throats.
Walt Myers
Rancho Cordova

I put this here because I believe it shows some of the things that people are opposed to and has some valid questions. I also agree with the statement I bolded, I believe it would be a very good idea.


I only picked out the part that I thought was absolutely ridiculous. How can someone say, "I will regret if these measures fail..." right after saying, "I presently do not plan on voting for either."?
 
There are some basic misconceptions in Mr. Myers letter.

The first and foremost is that this deal was brokered in a hurry and rushed to the ballot.

While the actual final agreement may have come together at the last moment, these issues were - for the most part - what the city/county and the Maloofs had been dancing around about for quite a while. It wasn't like they all of a sudden hit themselves in the head and said, "Hey, why don't we build an arena?"

And again, I think the whole "this isn't a good deal for the county" reflects a lack of awareness of the real situation. It's not a matter of shopping around and trying to find a better deal for a new sports and entertainment venue for Sacramento County. We have a legitimate chance RIGHT NOW to get something going that will last well into the future. If the Kings leave, that chance leaves with them. There won't be hordes of professional sports franchises lining up waiting to come here.

People seem to be under the impression that the public should have input into the negotations. Well, that's not the way it works. Elected officials meet with privately owned corporations every day and work out compromise deals. That's the way it works. This one uses a sales tax increase so it requires public voting.

The key word to remember is COMPROMISE. You have the Maloofs on one side and you have a diverse group of city/county officials on the other side. The City Council doesn't always agree within its own ranks, nor does the Board of Supervisors. The mere fact ANYTHING was agreed to is actually quite an accomplishment in and of itself.

Is this the best possible situation for the county? No. Is this the best possible situation for the city? No. Is this the best possible situation for the Maloofs? No. It is, however, IMHO the best possible compromise they could have come up with and I sincerely hope the people of Sacramento County are wise enough to understand that.
 
Back
Top