Kingsfan23
All-Star
He was already on the hot seat coming into this season as having a renown spotty record in trades, FA signings, and a lot of the draft. If Bagley doesn’t live up to two I don’t see any way he continues
Future of Vlade
- Thread starter sactowndog
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You get mentors for veteran minimum or atleast one year deals like Carter. There is no reason we needed to spend 40millon dollars to mentors. If you want mentors, use 10 for them and 30mil to get couple of first round picks. Tolliver won teammate of the year award in one of his former teams, class act. He also was straight up better than Zbo on the court last year. You get guys like Tolliver to mentor. Guys who know their role, have been around and are cheap. There is no chance someone is ever going to convince people that contracts like Zbo and Hill were great moves when the alternative wouldve been picks and cheaper mentors
I've been talking about this for a while. I'm not too down on JJ's shooting because that's something that players improve on all the time but Fox's rookie year advanced stats are as alarming as it gets and 95% of the fans ignore it because they either don't want to believe it or they keep saying "he's only 19". Ok well there are a lot of 19 year olds that come into the league and very very very few of them have rookie years as bad as Fox and wind up being good players.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he was playing in Joerger's awful system, basically with handcuffs on, but this kid needs to show us something. His summer league game looked very promising so I hope we get that guy this year. Last year he was basically used as if he was Derek Fisher. What's funny is the same people that think Fox is going to be awesome are the same people that think Joerger is a good coach too. Either one or both of those is going to prove to be false.
burekijogurt
Starter
this team has not won 35 games in 10 years. if they do this year, should Vlade be given a bonus?
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Probably way too many.
why not make a Vlade shrine-like thread dedicated to all Vlade talk, negative, positive and the whole nine
Nah. Those huge threads become redundant, duplicative, etc. If this thing has legs, so be it. If not, it will fall off the first page before very long. That's one thing about KF and our members. The hot topics stay at the top of the list, especially now that so many of our members are returning to the fold so to speak.
TaxMan
Starter
So wait....let me get this straight. If a team led by 1st and 2nd year players, with likely less minutes from vets this next year, improved by 7 games next year (almost 30% improvement) that’s not a success? I understand the decade plus level of frustration, but you all need to have some perspective. I guess either you buy into the plan laid out before last season or you don’t, but that would put them right on track. And given the strength the of the western conference next year, we might need to look deeper than just wins and losses to assess progress. To me, it all comes down to clear improvement by the young players. What if they win 30, but Fox, Bogi, Giles and Bagley headline the rookie/softmore allstar teams. Isn’t that a good sign? What is Fox continues to show the clutch gene he displayed last year....that helps.
This team is at best a year away from making a move at the 8th seed. Signing overpriced, middling free agents is not going to change that. I think the only thing that forces Vlade out is Fox stumbles and Bagley shows as a clear bust in year one.
In regards to Z-Bo and Tolliver.......Zbo gave the team, see Fox, a half court scoring option, someone that could help ease the pressure on the youngsters and keep games competitive, which was also something the org/Joerger said was important. Now, whether you like his performance or not, he is THAT guy. Unless you want to argue that Tolliver could have filled that role.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It all comes down to opportunity. If they get 25 mpg and 11 shots tops in a system that isn't working that's not on Vlade unless he has the power to take some of Joergers toys away and doesn't or is behind the play style call.
He was 19. His body was not NBA ready. The faith or rather the hope is/was he came back bigger stronger. It appears he did his work and THAT is what I’m looking for. You are an advanced stats guy. I’m an eye test guy for parts that can’t be used in advanced stats. If Fox came back the same skinny kid, then that would be a huge red flag. I have faith in his skills and him. I think he will play at a high level at some point.
As far as Joerger, we just won’t be on the same page. He’s been successful, I think he’s done a good job with what he’s been given.
Zbo also cost 24mil over two years. Every metric suggest the team was worse when he was on the court because of his horrible defense.
If you wanted a veteran who could share the load on offense, first of all probably should've played Buddy more and scheme him into getting more looks. Also if Fox is going to be good in this league, he will do it by being a pick n roll ball handler. Put the kid in a situation where he has even a chance to be succesful. And then when you stop force feeding Zbo and Willy the ball in high post you get more pick n roll touches to Bogie as well. Also if you still feel like the burden would've been too big, you could've got another vet on a one year deal to get those shots.
But again, its not possible to justify that contract. It was a mistake and now that mistake is costing us 12million dollars worth of salary that should've been used otherwise. Same thing with Hill. A misevaluation that is also costing 12 million atm. It basically comes down to this: It would've been possible to rent out the cap space for a 1st round pick AND still get VC plus another mentor. Looks a whole lot better than burning 40mil just on mentors
Yeah...ok dude.
sactowndog
All-Star
How is 35 wins even close to the 8th seed?? Vegas currently has us projected at 27.5 third worst in the league.
Larry David
Starter
Vlade's primary utility is that he keeps the heat off Vivek. If Luc Longly, another center that no other team would hire as a GM, were making Vlade's moves more fans would be staying home and/orsharpening their pitch forks for Vivek. Recall, at the end of the PDA era, lot of folks were already grabbing the pitch forks.
Since that time, the Kings:
(1) Have hidden Vivek and rarely make him accessible to the media in the way they did during his first 18 months;
(2) And promoted the lovable, popular, but incompetent former player they hired to be the franchise's Walmart greeter to be the GM and then figurehead of the front office.
Vlade's tenure turns primarily upon his ability to function as Vivek's bag man
Since that time, the Kings:
(1) Have hidden Vivek and rarely make him accessible to the media in the way they did during his first 18 months;
(2) And promoted the lovable, popular, but incompetent former player they hired to be the franchise's Walmart greeter to be the GM and then figurehead of the front office.
Vlade's tenure turns primarily upon his ability to function as Vivek's bag man
sactowndog
All-Star
I don’t think anyone has said he is a lock to be a bust. But unless he improves his playmaking, defense and shooting it’s going to be a bad year. The fact he didn’t even make all rookie second team is also a concern. It’s too early to say what he will be but he in no meaningful way has proven he will be a solid starter.
sactowndog
All-Star
In other words your opinion versus actual data. Got it.
Larry David
Starter
Regarding the 8th seed. Kings fans are falling into their same trap. Last year, the Kings won 27 games. They think, "I like this team more than last years's team." Therefore more wins.
The Kings don't get to play the 17-18 Kings. They play 63% of their games against the West where 10-11 of the 15 wins are clearly better than the Kings. The Kings racked up a handful of those 27 wins last year against teams that tanked. They were handed wins by teams that didn't want them. You can't bank on those coming again. The Lakers, Grizzlies, and Suns aren't taking this year. Mavs may or may not. The Clippers might late, but not early.
Unless you plan on the Kings cleaning up agains the east, which means long road trip wins, and regularly pulling upsets out west. I think fans are not being realistic
The Kings could be a lot better and end up with just 30 wins.
The Kings don't get to play the 17-18 Kings. They play 63% of their games against the West where 10-11 of the 15 wins are clearly better than the Kings. The Kings racked up a handful of those 27 wins last year against teams that tanked. They were handed wins by teams that didn't want them. You can't bank on those coming again. The Lakers, Grizzlies, and Suns aren't taking this year. Mavs may or may not. The Clippers might late, but not early.
Unless you plan on the Kings cleaning up agains the east, which means long road trip wins, and regularly pulling upsets out west. I think fans are not being realistic
The Kings could be a lot better and end up with just 30 wins.
sactowndog
All-Star
You assume Vlade tried. Do they pat your head and say you accomplished nothing at work but you tried?! Nobody wants to play for this doodoo franchise because they way Vlade is operating now. Did you read the article on the Hill trade? Can you name one player that Vlade actually got on a plane and went and talked to?
IT’S THE THIRD YEAR OF A REBUILD or did you conveniently forget the PappaG, Malachi, Skal scintillating draft? But even so I asked if the young kids don’t play well THIS YEAR is Vlade done. At that point he will have proven he is inept at signing free agents and drafting rookies. Not sure what possible reason he could have for not being fired.
burekijogurt
Starter
the last word in the Vlade chronicles will be had by results. if the critics are correct and his moves are bad, that will be reflected in bad results. if the supporters are right and his moves were good, this too will reflect itself in good results. would it be more poductive in terms of settling this to define what good results are and in what timeline? for me, good results would be something like 10 more wins next year, on the cusp of playoffs year after that, playoffs the next.
sactowndog
All-Star
Yeah and I want a viable back up point guard.
That's obvious.
Oh you also wanted George Hill to stay? Because that is what the quote was for.
sactowndog
All-Star
Of course, I think it’s hard to define good results given in the West. That would be why I said if the young guys don’t show improvement but didn’t specify wins. I tend to be like you that it seems 10 more wins in the 35 win range or so.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
OMG, that's been my headcannon for Vlade's existence for quite some time now! Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it!
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As for the poll. No way is this his last year. Lucking into lottery gains has given him the gift of youth. Even if the kids don't improve; they still can because POTENTIAL and it will buy him at least a couple more years.
burekijogurt
Starter
yes, as long as those wins come with the increased playing time for the youngsters. either way we will know much more than now at the end of next season.
This is just nonsense. Name a GM in the history of the Sacramento Kings franchise that has, even in the midst of strong performances by the team, been able to draw top free agents to the team. Go ahead. I'll wait.
You accuse others of using personal opinion over facts. Well, the fact is the Sacramento Kings are a small market team with a losing record in a state with horrific taxes that has to overpay to get ANY free agents to come here. You have NO proof whatsoever to indicate that Vlade is just sitting on his hands, other than your opinion. Be fair.
King Baller
All-Star
sactowndog
All-Star
He shot 3’s at a high percentage and was a quality back up point.
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