Front office - who's in charge? (split)

[Prince_XY]

You're such a grumpy old woman.

Funkykingston and dude12 were intelligent enough to know what I was talking about.

I apologize and I am sorry for you if you weren't able to comprehend.

 

[Livinthedream]

It would have been nice if we have "stated strongly and clearly" our opinion beforehand and not wiggled around our purportedly "I'm right about it".

Some of us who don't want Stauskas now didn't even state strongly who we really want instead of him.

Some of us who don't want McLemore now didn't even state strongly who we want instead of him.

I can still remember when Thomas Robinson was selected by the Kings. Some of us want Andre Drummond, but we didn't have the balls to insists strongly on drafting him in this board.

Yeah, it is really easy to criticize strongly after everything became clear and right after it happened.

But where were we before the decision?

Wiggling around with so many double meaning post of what we really meant and want. Oh well, I guess that is the smarter way of making ourselves look like a basketball genius.

I'll start with the most obvious defense to this. You don't really know who is going to fall to you at your draft position before draft day. So it's hard to have a strong opinion about who we should draft before that day comes.

As far as Stauskas goes, I don't think there are too many people who dislike Stauskas as a player. Most of the uproar is that we have holes to fill and although our SG underperformed, we thought we might address the other holes and allow Ben to develop. I thought Payton was the way to go, so I was a little irritated when we drafted a SG again. My irritation had nothing to do with Nik's ability or potential. But I couldn't have opinions about how the draft went before it happened.

As mentioned, drafting Ben was hard to argue, because he appeared to fall into our laps and many were high on him.

Beyond that, I'm not sure how insisting strongly about any of this makes a difference. I would be terrified if PDA made decisions based on my insistence.

 

[kingsboi]

Who's in charge? I think we all would like to know that question, we don't know however. All we can do at this point is speculate. Is it Vivek and Mullin getting in Pete's ear about sticking with offense or is Pete just an offensive guy himself coming from a Denver system where they allowed 110 ppg a game? I think one thing that is clear is that Malone and the front office have different philosophies because something has to give when you hire a defensive coach and not give him any defenders to work with and expect to turn offensive ball stoppers into capable defenders.

 

[John Galt]

Vivek coached his daughter's basketball team to a championship, having never played the game. He always says that stuff in interviews about surrounding himself by people who are much smarter than him, but its a schtick. Those people who are much smarter than him are kissing his ring behind the closed doors. I'd bet my left one that Vivek calls the personnel shots and has final sign-off on every last move. Not even sure why it is a question. And one thing for damn sure, he is not weak. He's as decisive and focused as Michael Corleone. And I would love to work for the guy and I'm glad he's the Kings owner.

 

[sdballer]

Vivek coached his daughter's basketball team to a championship, having never played the game. He always says that stuff in interviews about surrounding himself by people who are much smarter than him, but its a schtick. Those people who are much smarter than him are kissing his ring behind the closed doors. I'd bet my left one that Vivek calls the personnel shots and has final sign-off on every last move. Not even sure why it is a question. And one thing for damn sure, he is not weak. He's as decisive and focused as Michael Corleone. And I would love to work for the guy and I'm glad he's the Kings owner.

Your story had a surprise ending that I didn't enjoy

 

[John Galt]

Your story had a surprise ending that I didn't enjoy

it's complicated

 

[Hoovtrain]

T

Your story had a surprise ending that I didn't enjoy

This. Ive always found it a bit concerning and comical at the same time that he always referenced coaching his daughters 12 and under b ball team to success.

 

[John Galt]

I know everyone has moved on, but, we were almost the freakin Sonics. I'm gonna be a Vivek guy through thick and thin for a while. That said, it seems evident to me that he is a hands-on kind of guy, so to me... if it is "love it or leave it"... I choose "love it". What am I gonna do, change him by griping?

PS: I hope it didn't come off like I was saying that since he coached the girls team he is competent or an expert. I didn't mean that at all. I just meant that it is a glimpse into his "nature" - that he's gonna feel pretty confident that he can do anything, and be "hands on" thats all. It is a little bit unlucky that he won't turn over the basketball stuff to a strong GM, but I don't think he will.

 

[VF21]

T

This. Ive always found it a bit concerning and comical at the same time that he always referenced coaching his daughters 12 and under b ball team to success.

Concerning and comical that his love of the sport came after he coached his daughter's middle school team to a championship? He grew up in Mumbai. He hadn't been exposed to basketball. The story of how he came to love the sport is interesting, IMHO, and far from "concerning" or "comical." We all came to the game in different ways.

 

[Livinthedream]

I know everyone has moved on, but, we were almost the freakin Sonics. I'm gonna be a Vivek guy through thick and thin for a while. That said, it seems evident to me that he is a hands-on kind of guy, so to me... if it is "love it or leave it"... I choose "love it". What am I gonna do, change him by griping?

PS: I hope it didn't come off like I was saying that since he coached the girls team he is competent or an expert. I didn't mean that at all. I just meant that it is a glimpse into his "nature" - that he's gonna feel pretty confident that he can do anything, and be "hands on" thats all. It is a little bit unlucky that he won't turn over the basketball stuff to a strong GM, but I don't think he will.

Everything he's touched has turned to gold. Why would he stop thinking he knows best now?

 

[Bricklayer]

Concerning and comical that his love of the sport came after he coached his daughter's middle school team to a championship? He grew up in Mumbai. He hadn't been exposed to basketball. The story of how he came to love the sport is interesting, IMHO, and far from "concerning" or "comical." We all came to the game in different ways.

Oh, its concerning and comical if he takes it as a more significant sign than, well, coaching his daughter's basketball team. Cute story unless you stick it on your basketball resume.

 

[Bricklayer]

Everything he's touched has turned to gold. Why would he stop thinking he knows best now?

And that, I'm afraid, sounds almost exactly like the sort of things people used to say about the Maloofs. The hairs on my neck just rose up. Stop that.

 

[rainmaker]

Everything he's touched has turned to gold. Why would he stop thinking he knows best now?

The wisest people admit they know nothing in the grand scheme of things. Can't be an expert on everything. Being considered an expert on something is almost always centrally focused.

That's why you hire people who are experts and know more than you if it's not your area of expertise. Now Vivek has done that. He's admitted a big part of his success is surrounding himself with people who know more than him. The question however is, did he hire the right people for our FO? Time will tell.

But being in the Bay Area and close to GS, it's not lost on me that GS was a soft, up and down, run and gun team until they brought in Jerry West. Now that is an expert. And what has Jerry done? One of his first moves was advising to move Monta for Bogut(something Mullin was against which was reported down here). Later it was going after Iggy. Brought in some role players who can D it up, like Green/Barnes who can spread the floor too. Signed Livingston. Basically, he took a dump on their soft, run and gun style and said "hey guys, that **** doesn't win, you want playoff basketball and successful postseason runs, bring in defense". They're far more defensive and better balanced than three years ago.

West helped correct mistakes of the previous regime, led by Chris Mullin.

Now we have Mullin. Who's our Jerry West?

 

[Hoovtrain]

Concerning and comical that his love of the sport came after he coached his daughter's middle school team to a championship? He grew up in Mumbai. He hadn't been exposed to basketball. The story of how he came to love the sport is interesting, IMHO, and far from "concerning" or "comical." We all came to the game in different ways.

Well you have a much different interpretation of his comments than I and others do. I take it that he fancies himself a bit if a basketball expert based on his coaching experience and that he has tried to simplify something that is not that simple. So yeah, I stand by my comments of it being concerning and a bit comical.

 

[Livinthedream]

The wisest people admit they know nothing in the grand scheme of things. Can't be an expert on everything. Being considered an expert on something is almost always centrally focused.

That's why you hire people who are experts and know more than you if it's not your area of expertise. Now Vivek has done that. He's admitted a big part of his success is surrounding himself with people who know more than him. The question however is, did he hire the right people for our FO? Time will tell.

But being in the Bay Area and close to GS, it's not lost on me that GS was a soft, up and down, run and gun team until they brought in Jerry West. Now that is an expert. And what has Jerry done? One of his first moves was advising to move Monta for Bogut(something Mullin was against which was reported down here). Later it was going after Iggy. Brought in some role players who can D it up, like Green/Barnes who can spread the floor too. Signed Livingston. Basically, he took a dump on their soft, run and gun style and said "hey guys, that **** doesn't win, you want playoff basketball and successful postseason runs, bring in defense". They're far more defensive and better balanced than three years ago.

West helped correct mistakes of the previous regime, led by Chris Mullin.

Now we have Mullin. Who's our Jerry West?

Such a grim tale.

 

[John Galt]

And that, I'm afraid, sounds almost exactly like the sort of things people used to say about the Maloofs. The hairs on my neck just rose up. Stop that.

now that's kind of effed up. comparing a self made billionaire to some brats who inherited and squandered their daddy's fortune. VR doesn't deserve that

 

[Prince_XY]

But being in the Bay Area and close to GS, it's not lost on me that GS was a soft, up and down, run and gun team until they brought in Jerry West. Now that is an expert. And what has Jerry done? One of his first moves was advising to move Monta for Bogut(something Mullin was against which was reported down here). Later it was going after Iggy. Brought in some role players who can D it up, like Green/Barnes who can spread the floor too. Signed Livingston. Basically, he took a dump on their soft, run and gun style and said "hey guys, that **** doesn't win, you want playoff basketball and successful postseason runs, bring in defense". They're far more defensive and better balanced than three years ago.

West helped correct mistakes of the previous regime, led by Chris Mullin.

Now we have Mullin. Who's our Jerry West?

Just curious, since you are in the Bay Area.

Who was the Warriors GM when Baron Davis led them to the playoffs and even reached the second round by beating the 1st seed Mavericks?

 

[sdballer]

Just curious, since you are in the Bay Area.

Who was the Warriors GM when Baron Davis led them to the playoffs and even reached the second round by beating the 1st seed Mavericks?

If you are trying to claim Mullin did a good job, tread lightly. He made the playoffs once in 6 years. Finished above .500 only twice. In the lottery drafted Biedrins, Diogu, O'Bryant, and Anthony Randolph. He had a couple good trades that brought in Davis, Jackson and Harrington. Found Ellis in 2nd round.

Not a good track record. In fact, one that gets you fired 9 times out of 10.

 

[Tetsujin]

If you are trying to claim Mullin did a good job, tread lightly. He made the playoffs once in 6 years. Finished above .500 only twice. In the lottery drafted Biedrins, Diogu, O'Bryant, and Anthony Randolph. He had a couple good trades that brought in Davis, Jackson and Harrington. Found Ellis in 2nd round.

Not a good track record. In fact, one that gets you fired 9 times out of 10.

Not trying to make excuses for him because some of those choices are indefensible but he was partially hamstrung by bad ownership and Don Nelson being extra Don Nelson-ey

 

[Hoovtrain]

Just curious, since you are in the Bay Area.

Who was the Warriors GM when Baron Davis led them to the playoffs and even reached the second round by beating the 1st seed Mavericks?

You really want to go through all the god awful contracts that guy handed out? Or history of draft picks? He was at best, a mediocre GM..at best

 

[VF21]

Well you have a much different interpretation of his comments than I and others do. I take it that he fancies himself a bit if a basketball expert based on his coaching experience and that he has tried to simplify something that is not that simple. So yeah, I stand by my comments of it being concerning and a bit comical.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Gilles]

It would have been nice if we have "stated strongly and clearly" our opinion beforehand and not wiggled around our purportedly "I'm right about it".

Some of us who don't want Stauskas now didn't even state strongly who we really want instead of him.

Some of us who don't want McLemore now didn't even state strongly who we want instead of him.

I can still remember when Thomas Robinson was selected by the Kings. Some of us want Andre Drummond, but we didn't have the balls to insists strongly on drafting him in this board.

Yeah, it is really easy to criticize strongly after everything became clear and right after it happened.

But where were we before the decision?

Wiggling around with so many double meaning post of what we really meant and want. Oh well, I guess that is the smarter way of making ourselves look like a basketball genius.

We don't have nearly as much information to make an informed decision as anyone in FO does. And still Drummond or Adams were obvious for me. I was pushing Vonleh in February, but then I stopped after looking at lack of progression in the second half of the season and lack of passing, that renders his ballhandling rather useless. So this year I wasn't exited about anyone out of Stauskas, Payton or Vonleh, but would've been Ok with each choice.

The McLemore draft seems to really be the one where so many are saying it was bad didn't have anybody better in mind at the time.

McLemore may not turn into a good player but the pick was correct. All of the experts/pundits gave the Kings an 'A' for drafting McLemore. He was the consensus "best player available" when they made their pick. I remember browsing the board here and after Noel was picked a spot prior most members here were happy or at least satisfied with McLemore.

Sometimes you make the obvious correct choice and it just doesn't work.......it's called life it happens.

With Stauskas there at least is another consensus name that many feel they could or should have taken in Payton. Even the front office thought it was close, so that may turn out to he a move where you can look back and say they chose wrong because we knew ahead of time what a viable Plan B was. With McLemore there wasn't a viable Plan B at the time he was picked.

Payton can't shoot from outside or mid-range, has a floater, but it's inconsistent. Rondo and Rubio had(s) big men with excellent shooting AND passing to play with, Payton will need the same to be effective until (if ever) he fixes his shot. And while Cousins is an excellent passer his shooting is not on the level of Garnett/Love.
As for BMac sure there was - Adams or KCP.

 

[upinsmoke]

The guy who wrote the obscenely large check is in charge.Next question.

 

[Gilles]

The guy who wrote the obscenely large check is in charge.Next question.

Well, so did Maloofs as well...

 

[ParniValjak]

there is gerbil with the title of GM and there is mully with the title of adviser to the chairman.. who has final say? gerbil? mully? or does vivek trump them all. i was slamming gerbil pretty hard and have held more reserve since seeing the draft war room video where they were picking stauskas.

next offseason there should be ample amount of cap. hope they don't overpay rudy to stay. he's a nice piece but hardly a game changer. 10-12m should be the range for him.

Considering the deals being handed out during this free agency period, $10-12 million for Rudy would be an absolute bargain!

 

[Big Cuz 15]

yeah, *should* but with the way the cap is going up.. looks like he'll be getting a bigger one.

 

[Prince_XY]

Considering the deals being handed out during this free agency period, $10-12 million for Rudy would be an absolute bargain!

So, you think Rudy Gay is a LOT better than Trevor Ariza or Luol Deng on "both ends of the floor"?

 

[Spike]

You'll be surprised if you think someone will take a 9 million paycut, unless he falls off the map. My guess is a multi-year around 15 per is what it should take to keep him, at his current level.

 

[Bricklayer]

So, you think Rudy Gay is a LOT better than Trevor Ariza or Luol Deng on "both ends of the floor"?

Rudy Gay is a LOT better than Trevor Ariza offensively. He is also better than Luol Deng offensively. Other end of the floor he is not as good, but those guys are good defenders rather than super stoppers. Gay is clearly the one of them most suited to goto guy/carry you duties, but he is less suited to roleplayer work. And yes, he is worth considerably more than Ariza. And given age, should be worth more than Deng too. Parsons and Hayward were closer to his peers, and they ran off getting silly money. With that kind of stuff going on if we get him back for less than $14 you gotta feel you've done pretty well, especially since people don't want to come here.

 

[Larry David]

If you are trying to claim Mullin did a good job, tread lightly. He made the playoffs once in 6 years. Finished above .500 only twice. In the lottery drafted Biedrins, Diogu, O'Bryant, and Anthony Randolph. He had a couple good trades that brought in Davis, Jackson and Harrington. Found Ellis in 2nd round.

Not a good track record. In fact, one that gets you fired 9 times out of 10.

His assistant GM during that time ... was PDA.