Fox or Haliburton?

Capt. Factorial

Trade Rumors = 0.00 Bits Of Information
Staff member
I mean, come on. "The Kings offered Fox, Halliburton, three unprotected firsts and four pick swaps for Daryl Morey's leftover tuna salad sandwich. Morey showed no interest."

Again, I'm going with 0.00 bits of information.
It's even worse than that....The report is that the Kings "weighed" a trade package of Buddy Hield, Tyrese Haliburton, Harrison Barnes and 2 1st-round. So apparently, someone with the Kings thought about that, but didn't actually offer it. Yet, Morey still rejected it. :rolleyes:. There is so much crap on the internet.
 
I think Fox is gone at the deadline one way or the other. Either for Simmons or for Sabonis. There were way too many reports coming out today for me to think otherwise. The Kings are clearly having serious conversations with Fox at the center of them.
Yea, the fluid language is the giveaway: “current mindset” or “the Kings still sees a pathway”…
 
Welp they ain’t getting anything of significant value if true …

If this is true (which I'm not convinced it is) & we plan on keeping Haliburton), that pretty much removes Simmons & Sabonis as targets for us, and leaves us with the following defensive targets that could be available (in order of their current salary):

  • Kristaps Porzingis (Ugh/Gulp)
  • Al Horford
  • Jerami Grant
  • Myles Turner
  • Christian Wood
  • Robert Covington
  • Kyle Anderson
  • PJ Washington
  • Kenrich Williams


Scenario #1
Bagley/Thompson/Mitchell/2022 SAC 1st for Turner/Holiday
Holmes for Washington/Smith

PG - Fox / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Hield / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Holiday / Woodard
PF - Washington / Metu / Harkless
C - Turner / Jones / Len
1st Rounders - 2023 SAC / 2024 SAC / 2025 SAC
2nd Rounders - 2022 SAC / 2022 CHI/DET / 2023 SAC / 2024 POR / 2025 SAC / 2025 POR 2nd


Scenario #2
Bagley/Mitchell/2022 SAC 1st for Wood
Holmes for Washington/Smith

PG - Fox / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Hield / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Washington / Metu
C - Wood / Jones / Len / Thompson
1st Rounders - 2023 SAC / 2024 SAC / 2025 SAC
2nd Rounders - 2022 SAC / 2022 CHI/DET / 2023 SAC / 2024 POR / 2025 SAC / 2025 POR 2nd



Scenario #3
Hield/Harkless/2022 SAC 2nd/2023 SAC 2nd for Horford/Nesmith/K.Williams
Holmes for Washington/Smith

PG - Fox / Mitchell / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / K. Williams / Nesmith / Woodard
PF - Washington / Bagley / Metu
C - Horford / Jones / Len / Thompson
1st Rounders - 2022 SAC / 2023 SAC / 2024 SAC / 2025 SAC
2nd Rounders - 2022 CHI/DET / 2024 POR / 2025 SAC / 2025 POR 2nd




I still think Scenario #3 would be comparable to Scenario #1 & #2 from a "win now" perspective considering how much impact Horford has on the floor compared to guys like Turner & Wood, but Scenario #3 also sets us up better for the future too since...
  1. We have more young assets than the other options (Fox, Haliburton, Mitchell, Washington, Nesmith, & 2022 SAC 1st)
  2. Barnes will still likely be attractive to someone in the offseason or next trade deadline (if we want another young asset to add to the rest of the young guys)
  3. We improved our cap situation by clearing Hield & Holmes salary for the 2023-24 season (Horford's deal expires a year earlier). It would give us around $50 mil in cap space with the following 9 players under contract: Fox, Haliburton, Mitchell, Washington (RFA cap hold), Nesmith, Woodard, 2022 SAC 1st, 2022 CHI/DET 2nd, & 2023 SAC 1st
 
If this is true (which I'm not convinced it is) & we plan on keeping Haliburton), that pretty much removes Simmons & Sabonis as targets for us, and leaves us with the following defensive targets that could be available (in order of their current salary):

  • Kristaps Porzingis (Ugh/Gulp)
  • Al Horford
  • Jerami Grant
  • Myles Turner
  • Christian Wood
  • Robert Covington
  • Kyle Anderson
  • PJ Washington
  • Kenrich Williams


Scenario #1
Bagley/Thompson/Mitchell/2022 SAC 1st for Turner/Holiday
Holmes for Washington/Smith

PG - Fox / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Hield / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Holiday / Woodard
PF - Washington / Metu / Harkless
C - Turner / Jones / Len
1st Rounders - 2023 SAC / 2024 SAC / 2025 SAC
2nd Rounders - 2022 SAC / 2022 CHI/DET / 2023 SAC / 2024 POR / 2025 SAC / 2025 POR 2nd


Scenario #2
Bagley/Mitchell/2022 SAC 1st for Wood
Holmes for Washington/Smith

PG - Fox / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Hield / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Washington / Metu
C - Wood / Jones / Len / Thompson
1st Rounders - 2023 SAC / 2024 SAC / 2025 SAC
2nd Rounders - 2022 SAC / 2022 CHI/DET / 2023 SAC / 2024 POR / 2025 SAC / 2025 POR 2nd



Scenario #3
Hield/Harkless/2022 SAC 2nd/2023 SAC 2nd for Horford/Nesmith/K.Williams
Holmes for Washington/Smith

PG - Fox / Mitchell / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / K. Williams / Nesmith / Woodard
PF - Washington / Bagley / Metu
C - Horford / Jones / Len / Thompson
1st Rounders - 2022 SAC / 2023 SAC / 2024 SAC / 2025 SAC
2nd Rounders - 2022 CHI/DET / 2024 POR / 2025 SAC / 2025 POR 2nd




I still think Scenario #3 would be comparable to Scenario #1 & #2 from a "win now" perspective considering how much impact Horford has on the floor compared to guys like Turner & Wood, but Scenario #3 also sets us up better for the future too since...
  1. We have more young assets than the other options (Fox, Haliburton, Mitchell, Washington, Nesmith, & 2022 SAC 1st)
  2. Barnes will still likely be attractive to someone in the offseason or next trade deadline (if we want another young asset to add to the rest of the young guys)
  3. We improved our cap situation by clearing Hield & Holmes salary for the 2023-24 season (Horford's deal expires a year earlier). It would give us around $50 mil in cap space with the following 9 players under contract: Fox, Haliburton, Mitchell, Washington (RFA cap hold), Nesmith, Woodard, 2022 SAC 1st, 2022 CHI/DET 2nd, & 2023 SAC 1st
If Monte doesn’t do something big and resorts to the above type of moves, he should be fired immediately.
 
I think Fox is gone at the deadline one way or the other. Either for Simmons or for Sabonis. There were way too many reports coming out today for me to think otherwise. The Kings are clearly having serious conversations with Fox at the center of them.
Kings are trying to pit Indiana and Philly against each other, and trying to up the trade value of Fox by acting as though they don't want to part with him.
 
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There is always a lot of noise when the trade deadline approaches. So far, the comments that have come from Monte/ the FO are: the Kings wont tank, we have some players who can be a part of the solution here, the Kings are not exploring a Sabonis trade, and the Kings will not trade Fox and Haliburton. On top of that, we know Monte has tried to trade Buddy, did not extend and may have tried to trade Bagley, and that Bagley's camp has previously expressed a desire for a trade. Holmes can be traded but his salary will go up if he is. Monte didn't trade HB this time last year - but given we haven't progressed and he only has one year left on his deal that probably means nothing.

It's possible there are some mistruths there or that circumstances change, but for me I think it is more likely that the supporting cast will be on the way out than either of Fox or Hali.
 
Just like we told DMC right before we traded him. If anything telling Fox we're not trading him makes me think he's even closer to being traded.
That was pretty funny how DMC’s camp pushed out that James Ham piece about the Kings planning to sign DMC to an extension then the Kings trade him two weeks later.

Notice the Sham article named Fox’s agent, but didn’t name any Kings sources. You know who initiated that tweet. It came from Fox’s camp.
 
Kings are trying to pit Indiana and Philly against each other, and trying to up the trade value of Fox ny acting as though they don't want to part with him.
Also, even though many on this board, and many not on this board, support the Kings trading Fox, there are many who do not and believe we should continue to build around Fox. Trading him would certainly send a seismic shift across Sacramento. It makes sense to try and stop the spread of that information as much as possible. That being said, many reputable sources did come out with the stories on it today. That tells me the Kings are willing to trade him, even if they try and say otherwise.
 
Curb that enthusiasm whenever you read these "rumors" on Twitter, guys.

Teams and players' agents leaked all these fake rumors on that cesspool called Twitter because they know the Kings are active.

It's especially hilarious to read your own fans using these fake leaks to sabotage their own team saying "must be our incompetent owner" or "we wrongly trusted our GM" or "that sneaky POS of a player we got".
 
Curb that enthusiasm whenever you read these "rumors" on Twitter, guys.

Teams and players' agents leaked all these fake rumors on that cesspool called Twitter because they know the Kings are active.

It's especially hilarious to read your own fans using these fake leaks to sabotage their own team saying "must be our incompetent owner" or "we wrongly trusted our GM" or "that sneaky POS of a player we got".
We for sure know Fox’s camp reached out to Shams today. They went on the record.
 
Curb that enthusiasm whenever you read these "rumors" on Twitter, guys.

Teams and players' agents leaked all these fake rumors on that cesspool called Twitter because they know the Kings are active.

It's especially hilarious to read your own fans using these fake leaks to sabotage their own team saying "must be our incompetent owner" or "we wrongly trusted our GM" or "that sneaky POS of a player we got".
Posters who have spent the last half season putting out trade deals with Fox for whoever not willing to read anything that doesn't validate their genius. Not impossible that Fox gets traded but refusing to acknowledge that there may be some weight to comments that he won't a little odd.
 
Yeaahhhh....no. Sorry to be *that guy* but Metu and Bags together avg 6 3's a game. Fair to say your sense of what's happening is "jusssst a bit outside."

In re the Kings and 3's, it is amazing that the Kings are below-avg from 3 as a team (17th of 30 teams by %) when their most voluminous 3-pt shooters - Buddy (9.3 3PA, 38%), HB (4.9 3PA, 43%), and Ty (4.7 3PA, 44%) are all solid or better.

The problem, of course, is that every other 3-pt-shooting member of the rotation (Fox, Metu, Bags, Davion, Harkless, and Davis) is shooting 30% or less.
You know what. I think it would be really smart to trade Hali, Barnes and Buddy for a 6’ 10” forward whose best skill is kicking out passes to our other 3 point shooters.
 
I mean there's no way to know if any of this is true. It can be a chess game with how GMs "leak" info sometimes.

But that offer for Simmons makes me want to throw up in my mouth. No way I'd do that.
And this could be the reported idea floated towards the start of the season. This was basically the same package reported then IIRC.
 
Actually they never really did. And that's a big part of the problem. When you build around someone the idea is to actually surround them with a team that makes sense for them.
You mean using your last 2 first round picks to draft players at the same position as fox isn’t “building around fox”?
 
I'm cooling down to the idea of trading Fox for Simmons (not to mention the additional bounty we are expected to give up, which many agree on).

The issue is not talent. Simmons has clearly shown that he is an elite level talent, plays defense, and also helps balance our roster. So, in those terms alone, the trade would be a win for us.

However, given his attitude recently, I am scared that he will force our hand just like he is forcing Philly, driving his value further down. Do we, as an organization, ownership, and fan base, have the cojones displayed by Philly so far to fine him, refuse trade offers they consider unworthy, and let the drama drag out? And in the unlikely scenario that his mental health is an actual issue, what then?

Do we want the drama as long as he is around? Can a dysfunctional organization like ours handle it, while losing Fox, who in most aspects, has been a model citizen? I think the risk is far too high. If the contract length was couple of years at worst, fine, swing for the fences. This, I think, is too risky.

ps: In one aspect though, I think Philly's attitude will help the team that trades for him. They can follow the precedent set by Philly and say that they won't pay unless he suits up/cooperates. The challenge will be if he suits up, but goes through the motions, trying to force a trade. He has shown that he is unprofessional enough to behave like that.
 
I think Fox is gone at the deadline one way or the other. Either for Simmons or for Sabonis. There were way too many reports coming out today for me to think otherwise. The Kings are clearly having serious conversations with Fox at the center of them.
The Sabonis thing makes zero sense to me. A better, more ready version of Bagley? Eh.
 
Yeah... Or maybe he just isn't good enough either.
Maybe not, but if that is their plan, THAT'S how you do it regardless. Being not good enough but playing well enough is much better than the Kings plan of total ****show every year and wondering why people are attempting to buy low at the deadline.